I know that all the gamers have not been around forever. May not play as many games. And are generally still curious and new to all the gaming world.
So in retrospect i dont blame them for all the silly theories like : People dont like D3 because its not MMO , People dont like D3 because its not carbon copy of D1-2 ... etc
So for their service. And to prevent further confusion , i decided to bring you educated answer...
Here it is:
Major problem
Diablo 3 has removed all skill customisation traditional to series, and RPG
Diablo 3 has removed all stats. Thing that is ABC of RPG. In Diablo 3 case this is also severely limiting number of stats on item drops aswell, which in term also nerfs item collecting fun.
Xbox graphics - No high res textures on 2012 PC game
Personal opinion - define hi-res, what resolution do textures need to be to be "hi-res"?
No server browser ( just auto connect to random game)
Wrong, you choose what quest you want to play and the game finds others doig that same quest, or you can form a party with your friends and start a quest.
......
So much wrong in this post... see above in RED
Bottom Line - OP doesn't know enough the game and thinks just cus the old stat and tree system is not present we don't have something a little more interesting replacing it.
I think Lobotomist should update his original post and correct his errors. Did you go into D3 wanting to dislike it or something?
First off, I think people just hate change. I don't want to jump to any conclusions until I've played the total product. I think there's also an aspect of people really rallying against Blizzard that has to be recongized. It's the cool thing to hate World of Warcraft and it's going to be the "cool" thing to hate Diablo 3. Just my opinion though.
To me, the problem's that the game's not changed enough at all.
Honestly, I don't even care about what my stats are, never even looked at them. Even consciously wore the most gimped gear on my barbarian. And back in the previous Diablo games, my characters usually wore what "looked best" on them, rather than what was "the best". So, it's safe to say I'm not a stat junkie or a gearhead. I liked the first Diablo because it was fresh and fun back then, grouping with people for dungeon runs. To me, the novelty wore off in a couple of years, which is in effect why I didn't care that much for Diablo 2.
This one, from what I've experienced, has yet again felt a bit too much like the old Diablo games. Stat and progression changes? I found myself not caring. I know it's a given that developers don't stray far from the original formula in a series - it's just that doing the same thing over and over again proved too much when that thing you're doing is a very simple thing. Just past the one hour mark, I actually started too feel irritated with every loot drop, thinking "Oh great, yet some other crap to click on." I basically felt like an infernal streetcleaner!
I guess this sort of game just doesn't work for me anymore. I remember getting bored with Torchlight and Mythos rather quickly, too.
Might be that there are tons of skill combos but D3's skill system being tied in with gems and abilities unlocked at certain levels just doesn't seem so open.
At least it feels like a linear, predetermined ride of character development without much choice, if you only played the stress test. If the system at later levels becomes more interesting and offers more freedom, great, but its still a baffeling lack of well thought out design to not make this clear early in the game.
I think what most people would like to see is a skill interface which maps out the whole system. It just seems very restricted and diffuse to anyone who didn't got a masters degree in D3 by reading up on everything.
This is why the simple concept of a skilltree works so well: it gives visual feedback on what you have access to and what lies in your future. To me it is simply baffling that of all aspects, they felt that this one needed changing ...
Also no personal control on stat allocation is something I don't like. It's those little things that suggest you have at least some control over your progression.
So in DnD terms the mucnhkins are crying because they can no longer make the feeble quasimodo that can not avoid a snail but level a mountain with spells...
It have been proved over and over again that people that actually like min-max:ing for the math side of it are very few and far apart. The people who like min-maxing because it destorys people are a fair bit more but they only like it for the fact the most people are not min-maxers and thus fall easy prey to this.
Here is my tip
If you like to Min-Max to dominate PvP... Pick up bloody Magic: The Gathering.
They way i see it this gives everyone at least a fighting chance and the game is not much more based on infividual skill. You the player have to play smart to dominate instead on relying on your borderline glitched WMD
That being said though i think this was a lose/lose scenario for Blizzard, if they did not change stuff people would have complained about paying for a expansion to D2 with some more dynamic enviorments. And the other route.. well just look at Lobo's post.
It was always going to be a lose/lose anyway the game has hit the Duke Nukem Forever level time to release, it's just taken too long.
Most of the orginal fans aren't complaining we can't Min-Max a godlike character for pvp, it's that the orginal team (now Runic Games aka the Torchlight guys) allowed the players in Diablo 2 at least to expand their characters past the orginal design (the orginal rune, stocket and gem systems from D2 and LoD helped a lot in that), the joy wasn't having a godlike character, it was in the development of them, I had different Nercomances Druids and Mages because I wanted to make them and see if they worked...
Overally it increased the longivity of the game, with Diablo 3 why make a second character of the same class there is no need, unless nightmere mode spawns Diablo randomly in your game, and normal being as easy as it seems, I dought many of us will be playing Diablo 3 in the long term, as I said before all the publishers care about these days is boxsales as long as they make a ton of money off that they could close down the servers a year from now giving us Diablo 4 instead they no longer care about long term communities only if the community is willing to pay them on a monthly/yearly basis for the privlage of being part of it
Or maybe it is you who dislike the game and you have the need to bash it, so you make the name of the threat in such a way that it implies that Diablo 3 is hated by everyone...
The sales will show you how hated the game is
Also saying that it is simplified and lacks customization only shows that you have not dedicated any time to do some research about the game mechanics. I assume that you just played beta which is like first 8 levels on normal difficulty and jumped to conclusion which you present here.
I would suggest to lock this thread or at least change its name to "Why I dislike Diablo 3" since at current stage, this thread is full of subjective opinions of one person promoted and presented as objective truth.
Final note: I admit that the game may fail (I personally do not believe it since no games from blizzard ever fail), but it will be shown when the game is released and we have actually chance to try everything the game has to offer.
The game will probably be successful at first. A lot of people will buy a copy and play for a few months. But there is no way it will as successful longterm as D2. They sacrificed some complexity and replayability to make it more mainstrean and to target a new and broader audience. Not so much the D2 veteran... People that wants to be different and focus on character building. That want to have a reason to level up alts over and over. Builds that almost feels like a different class compared to other builds. Some will miss all that. And it really makes no difference if the majority buying the game think they are wrong.
Or maybe it is you who dislike the game and you have the need to bash it, so you make the name of the threat in such a way that it implies that Diablo 3 is hated by everyone...
The sales will show you how hated the game is
Also saying that it is simplified and lacks customization only shows that you have not dedicated any time to do some research about the game mechanics. I assume that you just played beta which is like first 8 levels on normal difficulty and jumped to conclusion which you present here.
I would suggest to lock this thread or at least change its name to "Why I dislike Diablo 3" since at current stage, this thread is full of subjective opinions of one person promoted and presented as objective truth.
Final note: I admit that the game may fail (I personally do not believe it since no games from blizzard ever fail), but it will be shown when the game is released and we have actually chance to try everything the game has to offer.
The game will probably be successful at first. A lot of people will buy a copy and play for a few months. But there is no way it will as successful longterm as D2. They sacrificed some complexity and replayability to make it more mainstrean and to target a new and broader audience. Not so much the D2 veteran... People that wants to be different and focus on character building. That want to have a reason to level up alts over and over. Builds that almost feels like a different class compared to other builds. Some will miss all that. And it really makes no difference if the majority buying the game think they are wrong.
I would come back to this discussion when we finish inferno difficulty.
We would have to discuss it 10 years from now if we want to compare longterm success. Monsters that are very difficult to kill in inferno will not give us any more choices if we talk about stats, skills and character building.
Obviously the reason is that beta is set to easy difficulty. There is no question that Blizzard can simply ramp up the hit points on monsters and call it "inferno"
So yes...the game can be hard.
But they will force you to play whole game on easy first to unlock it ... LOL (talking about lame ways to make you play longer)
But player skill wont come from how you cleverly build your character, to become more effective.
But only from how many health potions you chug down.
Again. hard mode for kids...
Actually D1 and D2 were easier in the sense you could chug limiteless heal potions pretty much instantly. There is a cool down timer on potion use in D3 so your statement is total BS.
Man you really need to let it go, this is about the 3rd or 4th Diablo hate thread you've started today. Let me ask you do you think Blizzard will change D3 now if you make enough threads complaining?
Also considering your making all your judgements on just 10 lvls in beta I'd say your not really in the best informed position to nake any sweeping judgements. Did you even try the game grouped? Its alot of fun with 3 others along. Not hardccore at first=10 lvl but fun. As to stats at 10th lvl my blacksmith made some armor with +10 dex +10 intel and +33 life from health globe so obviosuly one can still make some large changes in stats it will be fromm equipement though. So if you want a mage with a ton of strenght knock yourself out. Find or make the equipement with the states your looking for. Loots cool and its always been the major draw of Diablo.
Interesting read, even though I've decided long ago not to play D3. But looking at the stuff about gear and stats for D3, it looks like BioWare is maintaining the stance they took with SWTOR. Your gear defines everything about your character. You do not put points into character stats at all. Everything is derived from the gear you acquire. Naturally, the class you play dictates what gear you can acquire.
Heh, glad I stayed off the D3 road long ago.
Wow, the Bioware hate runs deep around here.
Blizzard makes Diablo. Always has.
Your point does remain though, because that is the approach Blizzard took with WoW. If you revised that statement by replacing Bioware with Blizzard and SWTOR with WoW, it would still carry the same meaning, but damn people. It's time to get over Bioware.
It's like that girlfriend who dumped you, and when you're out on a date you keep talking about her to the new girlfriend. Not good.
Edit: also I'm pretty sure gear isn't locked to specific classes. You could put strenght gear on your monk if you wanted.
So you guys stop making claim based on nothing, actually give us very precise example why D3 is deeper and more challenging that any of the sequels. I mean low level mobs dies from attacking you! Jesus christ, they die from attacking you, i actually have to repeat, because well i can't believe it, i had to get it pointed to me and had my jaw fall from sheer amazement. I mean come on already, and You have the balls to make this claim? based on what exactly?
Every single of the great feature, like random dungeon is out, i mean we all know D1&2 was already super shallow games, and well the randomness was already super basic compare to some roguelike or other similar games like NEthack and others; i think nobody will ever argue that, but they had so stunning graphics for their time, and well those feature was still there at least. Where is D3 now, who give even a shit about their graphic, 99% of the games today have similar graphics anyway? People want some gameplay, every damn noob in the industry is capable to make somewhat decent graphics with 1/100 the money put in it.
Blizz have fucking billion from Wow, and they are not even able to raise their hack&lash game to a decent level of interest? i mean apart from the RMTHA, which is a very personal topic. So RMTHA? is that it?
LOL, go get some clue before doing such claim, and at least try to play some decent game that share the same category before talking about them, its pretty clear you never played any of the game Diablo took their inspiration and all their features from, ye i talk about D1&2, since D3 took them all out. At least try to play NetHack or something that is still around from the time dungeon crawling actually meant something more than plain gear grind and awesome graphics.
Or maybe that's you guys with Blizz that are unable to understand what was underneath those games, and can only see the money making aspect of them? Actually i think thats more like that, you guys don't even have any poetry, how could you even understand role playing games to begin with? You guys probably are among those that think that roles mean dps/healer/tank anyway, just clueless, plain desperately clueless.
So much anger I 'll only address one point cus the rest of the post was crazy man rambling - DUNGEONS IN D3 ARE RANDOM in layout, mobs, loot, and events. Outside space - the layout is not random but the loot, mobs, events/mini dungeons (cellers/caves) are random.
Hey i'm sorry if that kind of claim upset me, but in any case my post wasn't to spout my anger on people, at least not only that, but mainly to inform them on how and why this kind of claim "games were always shallow and soulless" is based on nothing. And yes it upset me because i actually played those old rpg, and having the courage to say that those game were nothing more soulless than they are now, yes this is really irritating to me, i'm sorry it displease you.
And to respond to the randomness, yes it is still somewhat random, but comparing huge chunk of dungeon to a randomness at a room level, not even to talk about older rogue like where not only room where different, but you would have different ambiance on different levels. The difference is so big, talking about randomness at this point is a bit ridiculous. Its like saying a -50 C° weather is hot because its hotter than -55 C°, ye if you want to call it hot, i mean that's your choice after all *roll eyes*.
Thanks god small developers still care for hardcore gamers and do not have the need to make games for kids in their greed for leaching every single buck ...
lets talk about this in a year again, you will go like "patch of what plz"?
you dont need 4k skills if it all comes down to a cookie cutter build anway, most of you will most likely never understand, and 5 mins later specc "the best specc for their char", whatever
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
pvpers had the same skill/atts. They all looked the same aswell. That is unless you sucked or weren't serious about the game.
You're kidding right? It's either that or you were a very poor PvP player. I can give you at least 5 builds per class which had completely diffferent skill/stat combinations and a wildly different gear set. If we go into the more non-traditional builds, there's even more. I had about 7 (and I've created a lot more to experiment with different combos) sorceresses only for PvP. There was also the never ending argument of what is the right vitality to energy combination for an ES sorceress. Then again there were a lot of people who thought that an all vitality sorceress was the best combo. Those were the really bad people I could beat while making myself a cup of coffee.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Diablo 3 is now simplified and dumbed down to rank of some Iphone game, or kids game like "Free Realms"
That is really crazy to see how Blizzard want to streamline everything so hard.
I mean, players have been giving very negative feedback about how they dumbed down every games, but YET, they still continue ...
Seems like someone over there just got to get fired. Rude, but I can't see another solution by now considering how things are still evolving.
They are following the "less is more" and fast food philosophy. Thats why they think its better to ignore the demanding hardcore customer. They believe such customers are a vocal minority. And it would be a mistake to cater to them.
We need a developer that is a gamer and is also part of that minority. Someone that wants to create a game for himself and for others with the same taste that belive in the same ideas. A big company can never release a game like that and would never give a developer like that the freedom to create based on some personal vision and idealism. Because they are only interested in the money. The idealist will perhaps think its OK to get enough money for himself and the game to survive. And would never compromise or "sell out" even it could make him very rich.
No server browser ( just auto connect to random game)
I know you stated it's a minor problem, but at least in the early Betas you could still connect up with a friend and create private games or join eachothers open games. I know that this isn't the same as looking for "LLD 10-19" games or "Trades R US" etc... but I think the Auction house and the arena system will prevent the need for those 2 necessities in the search, and we can still group with friends as I said. I have no clue how the stress test went as I have logged in to the beta for a few months, but it isn't that bad.
However the dumbing down of the no stat choices has been pissing people off from the start.
Comments
I think Lobotomist should update his original post and correct his errors. Did you go into D3 wanting to dislike it or something?
To me, the problem's that the game's not changed enough at all.
Honestly, I don't even care about what my stats are, never even looked at them. Even consciously wore the most gimped gear on my barbarian. And back in the previous Diablo games, my characters usually wore what "looked best" on them, rather than what was "the best".
So, it's safe to say I'm not a stat junkie or a gearhead. I liked the first Diablo because it was fresh and fun back then, grouping with people for dungeon runs. To me, the novelty wore off in a couple of years, which is in effect why I didn't care that much for Diablo 2.
This one, from what I've experienced, has yet again felt a bit too much like the old Diablo games. Stat and progression changes? I found myself not caring. I know it's a given that developers don't stray far from the original formula in a series - it's just that doing the same thing over and over again proved too much when that thing you're doing is a very simple thing. Just past the one hour mark, I actually started too feel irritated with every loot drop, thinking "Oh great, yet some other crap to click on." I basically felt like an infernal streetcleaner!
I guess this sort of game just doesn't work for me anymore. I remember getting bored with Torchlight and Mythos rather quickly, too.
Might be that there are tons of skill combos but D3's skill system being tied in with gems and abilities unlocked at certain levels just doesn't seem so open.
At least it feels like a linear, predetermined ride of character development without much choice, if you only played the stress test. If the system at later levels becomes more interesting and offers more freedom, great, but its still a baffeling lack of well thought out design to not make this clear early in the game.
I think what most people would like to see is a skill interface which maps out the whole system. It just seems very restricted and diffuse to anyone who didn't got a masters degree in D3 by reading up on everything.
This is why the simple concept of a skilltree works so well: it gives visual feedback on what you have access to and what lies in your future. To me it is simply baffling that of all aspects, they felt that this one needed changing ...
Also no personal control on stat allocation is something I don't like. It's those little things that suggest you have at least some control over your progression.
My brand new bloggity blog.
It was always going to be a lose/lose anyway the game has hit the Duke Nukem Forever level time to release, it's just taken too long.
Most of the orginal fans aren't complaining we can't Min-Max a godlike character for pvp, it's that the orginal team (now Runic Games aka the Torchlight guys) allowed the players in Diablo 2 at least to expand their characters past the orginal design (the orginal rune, stocket and gem systems from D2 and LoD helped a lot in that), the joy wasn't having a godlike character, it was in the development of them, I had different Nercomances Druids and Mages because I wanted to make them and see if they worked...
Overally it increased the longivity of the game, with Diablo 3 why make a second character of the same class there is no need, unless nightmere mode spawns Diablo randomly in your game, and normal being as easy as it seems, I dought many of us will be playing Diablo 3 in the long term, as I said before all the publishers care about these days is boxsales as long as they make a ton of money off that they could close down the servers a year from now giving us Diablo 4 instead they no longer care about long term communities only if the community is willing to pay them on a monthly/yearly basis for the privlage of being part of it
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
Fail thread not worth to comment
The main issue I have with Diablo 3 is that I have to log onto their servers to play the game.... even if I'm playing single player.
The Enlightened take things Lightly
The game will probably be successful at first. A lot of people will buy a copy and play for a few months. But there is no way it will as successful longterm as D2. They sacrificed some complexity and replayability to make it more mainstrean and to target a new and broader audience. Not so much the D2 veteran... People that wants to be different and focus on character building. That want to have a reason to level up alts over and over. Builds that almost feels like a different class compared to other builds. Some will miss all that. And it really makes no difference if the majority buying the game think they are wrong.
We would have to discuss it 10 years from now if we want to compare longterm success. Monsters that are very difficult to kill in inferno will not give us any more choices if we talk about stats, skills and character building.
Actually D1 and D2 were easier in the sense you could chug limiteless heal potions pretty much instantly. There is a cool down timer on potion use in D3 so your statement is total BS.
Man you really need to let it go, this is about the 3rd or 4th Diablo hate thread you've started today. Let me ask you do you think Blizzard will change D3 now if you make enough threads complaining?
Also considering your making all your judgements on just 10 lvls in beta I'd say your not really in the best informed position to nake any sweeping judgements. Did you even try the game grouped? Its alot of fun with 3 others along. Not hardccore at first=10 lvl but fun. As to stats at 10th lvl my blacksmith made some armor with +10 dex +10 intel and +33 life from health globe so obviosuly one can still make some large changes in stats it will be fromm equipement though. So if you want a mage with a ton of strenght knock yourself out. Find or make the equipement with the states your looking for. Loots cool and its always been the major draw of Diablo.
Wow, the Bioware hate runs deep around here.
Blizzard makes Diablo. Always has.
Your point does remain though, because that is the approach Blizzard took with WoW. If you revised that statement by replacing Bioware with Blizzard and SWTOR with WoW, it would still carry the same meaning, but damn people. It's time to get over Bioware.
It's like that girlfriend who dumped you, and when you're out on a date you keep talking about her to the new girlfriend. Not good.
Edit: also I'm pretty sure gear isn't locked to specific classes. You could put strenght gear on your monk if you wanted.
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Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
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Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Hey i'm sorry if that kind of claim upset me, but in any case my post wasn't to spout my anger on people, at least not only that, but mainly to inform them on how and why this kind of claim "games were always shallow and soulless" is based on nothing. And yes it upset me because i actually played those old rpg, and having the courage to say that those game were nothing more soulless than they are now, yes this is really irritating to me, i'm sorry it displease you.
And to respond to the randomness, yes it is still somewhat random, but comparing huge chunk of dungeon to a randomness at a room level, not even to talk about older rogue like where not only room where different, but you would have different ambiance on different levels. The difference is so big, talking about randomness at this point is a bit ridiculous. Its like saying a -50 C° weather is hot because its hotter than -55 C°, ye if you want to call it hot, i mean that's your choice after all *roll eyes*.
Thanks god small developers still care for hardcore gamers and do not have the need to make games for kids in their greed for leaching every single buck ...
Let me just re-post Path of Exile skill tree :
That is really crazy to see how Blizzard want to streamline everything so hard.
I mean, players have been giving very negative feedback about how they dumbed down every games, but YET, they still continue ...
Seems like someone over there just got to get fired. Rude, but I can't see another solution by now considering how things are still evolving.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
you guys repeat the last years ^^
seriously, path of exile better than d3?
lets talk about this in a year again, you will go like "patch of what plz"?
you dont need 4k skills if it all comes down to a cookie cutter build anway, most of you will most likely never understand, and 5 mins later specc "the best specc for their char", whatever
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
You're kidding right? It's either that or you were a very poor PvP player. I can give you at least 5 builds per class which had completely diffferent skill/stat combinations and a wildly different gear set. If we go into the more non-traditional builds, there's even more. I had about 7 (and I've created a lot more to experiment with different combos) sorceresses only for PvP. There was also the never ending argument of what is the right vitality to energy combination for an ES sorceress. Then again there were a lot of people who thought that an all vitality sorceress was the best combo. Those were the really bad people I could beat while making myself a cup of coffee.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
They are following the "less is more" and fast food philosophy. Thats why they think its better to ignore the demanding hardcore customer. They believe such customers are a vocal minority. And it would be a mistake to cater to them.
We need a developer that is a gamer and is also part of that minority. Someone that wants to create a game for himself and for others with the same taste that belive in the same ideas. A big company can never release a game like that and would never give a developer like that the freedom to create based on some personal vision and idealism. Because they are only interested in the money. The idealist will perhaps think its OK to get enough money for himself and the game to survive. And would never compromise or "sell out" even it could make him very rich.
A full set of gems gives you abou 1000 stat points to play around with in D3.
You know what that means? There are more statnpoints to assign in D3 than there were in D2.
OMG that's so dumbed down.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Seems like Path of Exile has gender locked classes so fail. Diablo 3 is still not much better but still.
My gaming blog
I know you stated it's a minor problem, but at least in the early Betas you could still connect up with a friend and create private games or join eachothers open games. I know that this isn't the same as looking for "LLD 10-19" games or "Trades R US" etc... but I think the Auction house and the arena system will prevent the need for those 2 necessities in the search, and we can still group with friends as I said. I have no clue how the stress test went as I have logged in to the beta for a few months, but it isn't that bad.
However the dumbing down of the no stat choices has been pissing people off from the start.