I don't know why everyone thinks beating WoW is this impossible goal. Every champion eventually falls, and to be honest, WoW is in a decline anyway. It's actually losing subs, and has been for some time now. It's finally getting dated, people are tired of it and want something different.
And I also don't see why a developer shouldn't shoot for the stars with their game. I mean, who pours their heart and soul into a game and then says: "I'd be happy with fourth place."
????
Can we not see that "beating WOW' has been one of the major downfalls for many in this genre? It's not about whether it's doable, it's about FOCUS...
Can you explain further? How does saying "we want to be the best" become your downfall???
Sure I can explain further, 2005-2012 in MMO land, is a direct result of reaching for WOWs throne. That should say enough about what I'm talking about here.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Its not worth talking about beating wow because obviously if you say you are setting your eyes for the stars you are going to just flop amirite?
Just let it go this is just going back and forth for no reason and will turn into bash each other thread.
For the people who are happy that Anet is shooting for the stars just support the team.
For the people who think by saying beat wow they will fail no matter what, well I respect your opinion and the rest should too and just leave the whole conversation alone after that.
Do not try to make excuses as to why one side is wrong or not, just let the opinions sit and see what happens.
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
A team leader has to talk big, especialy when in the context of forbes. Who wants to invest in someone shooting for anything but number 1? Seriously, would you personaly invest money in a company that isnt looking to be the top of their field? I know, they arnt looking for investers at the moment.. but can you say it will always be that way?
Also, on the flip side, this should stop the people that keep whining that since there is no sub they have no reason to support or improve the game.
I don't know why everyone thinks beating WoW is this impossible goal. Every champion eventually falls, and to be honest, WoW is in a decline anyway. It's actually losing subs, and has been for some time now. It's finally getting dated, people are tired of it and want something different.
And I also don't see why a developer shouldn't shoot for the stars with their game. I mean, who pours their heart and soul into a game and then says: "I'd be happy with fourth place."
????
Can we not see that "beating WOW' has been one of the major downfalls for many in this genre? It's not about whether it's doable, it's about FOCUS...
Can you explain further? How does saying "we want to be the best" become your downfall???
Sure I can explain further, 2005-2012 in MMO land, is a direct result of reaching for WOWs throne. That should say enough about what I'm talking about here.
I would say it's a result of trying to COPY WoW's success and get a piece of the pie, not trying to overcome WoW.
If more devs said "we want to be better than WoW" instead of "we want a piece of that sweet, sweet WoW pie," then maybe we would be better off .
I don't know why everyone thinks beating WoW is this impossible goal. Every champion eventually falls, and to be honest, WoW is in a decline anyway. It's actually losing subs, and has been for some time now. It's finally getting dated, people are tired of it and want something different.
And I also don't see why a developer shouldn't shoot for the stars with their game. I mean, who pours their heart and soul into a game and then says: "I'd be happy with fourth place."
????
Can we not see that "beating WOW' has been one of the major downfalls for many in this genre? It's not about whether it's doable, it's about FOCUS...
Can you explain further? How does saying "we want to be the best" become your downfall???
Sure I can explain further, 2005-2012 in MMO land, is a direct result of reaching for WOWs throne. That should say enough about what I'm talking about here.
My opinion on it is that they failed because they tried to copy what WoW became, not how WoW became WoW.
So what they want and will not settle for anything other than, is a WOW killer?
"As for the World of Warcraft-killer slogan that has been bandied about in the press, O’Brien said “nothing is going to kill WoW other than WoW"
That quote is taken directly from the article linked in the OP, which I'm sure you read, right?
WHy do people take everything so literal, WOW killer is another way to say "beat WOW" which is his exact motivation he stresses in the article..
Read the quote? It's pretty straightforward. There's no illusiveness to it.
They want to be the best, but their goal isn't taking down WoW. Why is that so hard to understand?
Another way of wording it would be 'they want to make the best MMO possible, and don't think that focusing on WoW is the way to do that'. Or, 'we think WoW is on it's way out anyway, and want to be the next best MMO for when it does'. But those are still basically putting words in Anet's mouth. The article has quotes straight from the source, so why not use them.
If you're going to pick apart some of their words and not others, it's probably best to look at the entire article. Looking at the entire message shows that the article really doesn't say a damned thing. It's a puff piece if anything. It's meant to generate discussion out of nothing. Any reasonable studio wants to be the best at what they do. It should really go without saying.
I don't know why everyone thinks beating WoW is this impossible goal. Every champion eventually falls, and to be honest, WoW is in a decline anyway. It's actually losing subs, and has been for some time now. It's finally getting dated, people are tired of it and want something different.
And I also don't see why a developer shouldn't shoot for the stars with their game. I mean, who pours their heart and soul into a game and then says: "I'd be happy with fourth place."
????
Can we not see that "beating WOW' has been one of the major downfalls for many in this genre? It's not about whether it's doable, it's about FOCUS...
Can you explain further? How does saying "we want to be the best" become your downfall???
Sure I can explain further, 2005-2012 in MMO land, is a direct result of reaching for WOWs throne. That should say enough about what I'm talking about here.
I would say it's a result of trying to COPY WoW's success and get a piece of the pie, not trying to overcome WoW.
If more devs said "we want to be better than WoW" instead of "we want a piece of that sweet, sweet WoW pie," then maybe we would be better off .
Devs can say whatever they want, I'd rather just see it. The whole interview is just a bunch of hot air and it's annoying to some people that's all. Even if it is just to impress Forbes...
These posts are fucking amazing. Just like the other thread which had posts that where amazing. This is just so amazing.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
So what they want and will not settle for anything other than, is a WOW killer?
"As for the World of Warcraft-killer slogan that has been bandied about in the press, O’Brien said “nothing is going to kill WoW other than WoW"
That quote is taken directly from the article linked in the OP, which I'm sure you read, right?
WHy do people take everything so literal, WOW killer is another way to say "beat WOW" which is his exact motivation he stresses in the article..
Read the quote? It's pretty straightforward. There's no illusiveness to it.
Uhgg.. How about we don't start lecturing each-other? WOW killer was my own usage of the word, and it appears by other responses I'm not alone in that usage, the rest is irrelevant, I didn't use it to say that WOW will die, just be beaten.
Did you read my response to Just1? It basically said on futher thought, I've just chalked it up as nothig and corp. speak for the audience (forbes).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Devs can say whatever they want, I'd rather just see it. The whole interview is just a bunch of hot air and it's annoying to some people that's all. Even if it is just to impress Forbes...
This ^.
The article, in it's entirety, comes down to absolutely nothing. It's written to sound good, but doesn't have any sort of point, message, or information involved.
Love the article and the confidence, supports my decision even more for pre purchasing the game. I'm appreciative that they took their time to develop the game. If it really is as good as we all expect it to be. The 5 years of development is well worth it. See you guys this weekend!
Uhgg.. How about we don't start lecturing each-other? WOW killer was my own usage of the word, and it appears by other responses I'm not alone in that usage, the rest is irrelevant, I didn't use it to say that WOW will die, just be beaten.
I'm not saying you are. All I was pointing out was the quote I linked can be used as a direct response to your question.
'so, they won't settle until they are a wow killer' dev: 'nothing can kill wow, but wow'.
Maybe it's just me, but I find that pretty straight forward. As for the validity or weight to that whole argument, who cares. The article doesn't really say much of anything when it comes down to it.
So what they want and will not settle for anything other than, is a WOW killer?
wait...wtf? WoW is still alive? Lol, I mean, i would think after all these new games coming out from Rift, SWOTR, TERA, D3, G2, and other games from the past like Aion, and possibly several other games i cant pull from the top of my head would have left WoW somewhere along the side of the road somewhere....in...the north pole..or something
EDIT: actually i just read several more post, and yea everyone kinda has a point, i haven't seen that term be used for such a long time. I seriously don't think WoW is still the number one game out there, i think its kinda divided between other mmorpgs.
Uhgg.. How about we don't start lecturing each-other? WOW killer was my own usage of the word, and it appears by other responses I'm not alone in that usage, the rest is irrelevant, I didn't use it to say that WOW will die, just be beaten.
I'm not saying you are. All I was pointing out was the quote I linked can be used as a direct response to your question.
'so, they won't settle until they are a wow killer' dev: 'nothing can kill wow, but wow'.
Maybe it's just me, but I find that pretty straight forward. As for the validity or weight to that whole argument, who cares. The article doesn't really say much of anything when it comes down to it.
Yeah I'm beyond it myself, like I said to just1 long ago in this thread, it's just a show for the audience (forbes).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
He never said it ws going to be a WoW killer, he stated he wished (and will) dethrone WoW from the top seat. Just because WoW is #2 doesn't mean it would be dead. @Distopia and whoever else also got confused.
So what they want and will not settle for anything other than, is a WOW killer?
Mike O'Brien said just the opposite of that in a recent interview linked in another thread. So no, they are not thinking they will be the "WoW Killer." Only Blizzard can kill WoW.
I was referring to this.
Mike O'brien:
"We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. Well be satisfied when Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO"
And how do they consider a non-sub-based game as being number two to the number one Sub based game?
That's stupid... How can GW be second to World of Warcraft when it's not a MMO? This is my point on why I don't trust Anet's marketing. Because they claimed that GW1 wasn't advertised as a MMORPG, but here they are doing it again and advertising it as a MMO by comparing it to MMO. VERY MISLEADING!!!
He never said it ws going to be a WoW killer, he stated he wished (and will) dethrone WoW from the top seat. Just because WoW is #2 doesn't mean it would be dead. @Distopia and whoever else also got confused.
And . . . this. This is the most concise summation of Mike O'Brien's statement. +1
Devs can say whatever they want, I'd rather just see it. The whole interview is just a bunch of hot air and it's annoying to some people that's all. Even if it is just to impress Forbes...
This ^.
The article, in it's entirety, comes down to absolutely nothing. It's written to sound good, but doesn't have any sort of point, message, or information involved.
Lemme help you guys out. Mike wasnt talking to us gamers. He was talking to prospective investors.
Investors dont want to hear anything other than we are growing and innovating and will continue to do so into the future. That is precisely what Mike was conveying. This wasnt your typical Anet blog post and wasnt meant for us to consume it as it was such.
Looking at the viewpoints expressed in this thread.....you can see why.
He never said it ws going to be a WoW killer, he stated he wished (and will) dethrone WoW from the top seat. Just because WoW is #2 doesn't mean it would be dead. @Distopia and whoever else also got confused.
I've never thought the term WOW killer to actually mean Kill WOW, it's nothing more than a quip, used in reference to the goal of beating WOW, ( at least that's where it started). WOW was the EQ/SWG killer, yet EQ/SWG never died (at the time). I'm more confused that I have to explain what I meant, even after supplying the direct quote (not to mention my posts through the rest of the thread) I was referring to.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Great, I love the confidence he has on the game, all hell shall break loose after this beta, we'll experience for ourselves what GW2 really has to offer.
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
Comments
Sure I can explain further, 2005-2012 in MMO land, is a direct result of reaching for WOWs throne. That should say enough about what I'm talking about here.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Its not worth talking about beating wow because obviously if you say you are setting your eyes for the stars you are going to just flop amirite?
Just let it go this is just going back and forth for no reason and will turn into bash each other thread.
For the people who are happy that Anet is shooting for the stars just support the team.
For the people who think by saying beat wow they will fail no matter what, well I respect your opinion and the rest should too and just leave the whole conversation alone after that.
Do not try to make excuses as to why one side is wrong or not, just let the opinions sit and see what happens.
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
A team leader has to talk big, especialy when in the context of forbes. Who wants to invest in someone shooting for anything but number 1? Seriously, would you personaly invest money in a company that isnt looking to be the top of their field? I know, they arnt looking for investers at the moment.. but can you say it will always be that way?
Also, on the flip side, this should stop the people that keep whining that since there is no sub they have no reason to support or improve the game.
I would say it's a result of trying to COPY WoW's success and get a piece of the pie, not trying to overcome WoW.
If more devs said "we want to be better than WoW" instead of "we want a piece of that sweet, sweet WoW pie," then maybe we would be better off
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
My opinion on it is that they failed because they tried to copy what WoW became, not how WoW became WoW.
I can see that and will concede to the point you're making as most attempts at it have been in the vain of wow rather than against it.
You're right :P Scarecrow as well..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Read the quote? It's pretty straightforward. There's no illusiveness to it.
They want to be the best, but their goal isn't taking down WoW. Why is that so hard to understand?
Another way of wording it would be 'they want to make the best MMO possible, and don't think that focusing on WoW is the way to do that'. Or, 'we think WoW is on it's way out anyway, and want to be the next best MMO for when it does'. But those are still basically putting words in Anet's mouth. The article has quotes straight from the source, so why not use them.
If you're going to pick apart some of their words and not others, it's probably best to look at the entire article. Looking at the entire message shows that the article really doesn't say a damned thing. It's a puff piece if anything. It's meant to generate discussion out of nothing. Any reasonable studio wants to be the best at what they do. It should really go without saying.
Devs can say whatever they want, I'd rather just see it. The whole interview is just a bunch of hot air and it's annoying to some people that's all. Even if it is just to impress Forbes...
Funny that this is considered news.
Though without subs they will never be able to "Claim" that title.
These posts are fucking amazing. Just like the other thread which had posts that where amazing. This is just so amazing.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Uhgg.. How about we don't start lecturing each-other? WOW killer was my own usage of the word, and it appears by other responses I'm not alone in that usage, the rest is irrelevant, I didn't use it to say that WOW will die, just be beaten.
Did you read my response to Just1? It basically said on futher thought, I've just chalked it up as nothig and corp. speak for the audience (forbes).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This ^.
The article, in it's entirety, comes down to absolutely nothing. It's written to sound good, but doesn't have any sort of point, message, or information involved.
Love the article and the confidence, supports my decision even more for pre purchasing the game. I'm appreciative that they took their time to develop the game. If it really is as good as we all expect it to be. The 5 years of development is well worth it. See you guys this weekend!
People catch what jumps out at them, some can't understand that, that's what is truly amazing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm not saying you are. All I was pointing out was the quote I linked can be used as a direct response to your question.
'so, they won't settle until they are a wow killer' dev: 'nothing can kill wow, but wow'.
Maybe it's just me, but I find that pretty straight forward. As for the validity or weight to that whole argument, who cares. The article doesn't really say much of anything when it comes down to it.
wait...wtf? WoW is still alive? Lol, I mean, i would think after all these new games coming out from Rift, SWOTR, TERA, D3, G2, and other games from the past like Aion, and possibly several other games i cant pull from the top of my head would have left WoW somewhere along the side of the road somewhere....in...the north pole..or something
EDIT: actually i just read several more post, and yea everyone kinda has a point, i haven't seen that term be used for such a long time. I seriously don't think WoW is still the number one game out there, i think its kinda divided between other mmorpgs.
Yeah I'm beyond it myself, like I said to just1 long ago in this thread, it's just a show for the audience (forbes).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
absolutely.
i reckon they're putting up a good attack.
He never said it ws going to be a WoW killer, he stated he wished (and will) dethrone WoW from the top seat. Just because WoW is #2 doesn't mean it would be dead. @Distopia and whoever else also got confused.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
Mike O'Brien said just the opposite of that in a recent interview linked in another thread. So no, they are not thinking they will be the "WoW Killer." Only Blizzard can kill WoW.
I was referring to this.
Mike O'brien:
"We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. Well be satisfied when Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO"
And how do they consider a non-sub-based game as being number two to the number one Sub based game?
That's stupid... How can GW be second to World of Warcraft when it's not a MMO? This is my point on why I don't trust Anet's marketing. Because they claimed that GW1 wasn't advertised as a MMORPG, but here they are doing it again and advertising it as a MMO by comparing it to MMO. VERY MISLEADING!!!Philosophy of MMO Game Design
And . . . this. This is the most concise summation of Mike O'Brien's statement. +1
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
Lemme help you guys out. Mike wasnt talking to us gamers. He was talking to prospective investors.
Investors dont want to hear anything other than we are growing and innovating and will continue to do so into the future. That is precisely what Mike was conveying. This wasnt your typical Anet blog post and wasnt meant for us to consume it as it was such.
Looking at the viewpoints expressed in this thread.....you can see why.
I've never thought the term WOW killer to actually mean Kill WOW, it's nothing more than a quip, used in reference to the goal of beating WOW, ( at least that's where it started). WOW was the EQ/SWG killer, yet EQ/SWG never died (at the time). I'm more confused that I have to explain what I meant, even after supplying the direct quote (not to mention my posts through the rest of the thread) I was referring to.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Great, I love the confidence he has on the game, all hell shall break loose after this beta, we'll experience for ourselves what GW2 really has to offer.
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
If anything is a good summation it's that this is just talk ( a show of confidence and corporate level posturing).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson