Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Why the odds are heavily stacked against Guild Wars 2 success
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
I think it only happens if you go to a scout.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Wait, don't in order to chain the event you have to complete the one your on?
The scout reveals all of the hearts of a certain zone but hearts also appear when you're near one, even if you never spoke to a scout.
Most of his post are personal opinions based on limited exposure to the game. Going by the first part alone, it is obvious that the OP has not really explored the PvE side of the game in depth. I'd say he either watched a few youtube videos or possibly played the game to level 5, did a few starter hearts and events and assumed that the whole PvE game is like this. It is not. There is a lot more depth do it and when you actually realize it, you'll see just how different the PvE side of the game is.
Just the simple fact that the game revolves around exploration instead traveling from quest hub to quest hub is enough to set it appart from the other MMOs.
As far as the rest of that post... zerg tactics? In mass PvP? Especially when people just started playing? You don't freaking say... I am shocked.
Faction imbalance? There are no factions in GW2, something the OP would have known, had he actually played the game.
Server population imbalance due to time zones doesn't matter as servers get paired up with servers from their time zone. Either way, due to the length of WvWvW conflicts and how the wins are determined, it doesn't really matter if one night a certain server is able to field more players.
Wait, what does "only playing to level 5" have to do with it? I thought the whole game was "end game" and some positivists claim to have done more in a couple levels than in many levels in other mmos. Is it not deep at the beginning? More depth later implies the beginning of the game is shallow and basic. That doesn't jive with the claims about it being a deep complex world from momemnt one. You can't have it both ways, which is it?
So he only watched some livestreams and youtube videos according to you, but many many people have told us that's all we need to see in order to make an informed decision. All the facts are laid out before us to see. Is that not true? Is that just a bunch of bullshit? Again, you can't have it both ways.
So a game that is being touted as revolutionary, a sub-killer, an evolution of pve and pvp, but has the standard zerg trap is okay because zergs happen. Servers *are* the factions and we'll see how well the pairing works. It obviously didn't work for everyone on the paid preview weekend.
Just admit it's a game that spins your wheels and is exactly what you're looking for but isn't going to be the "revolution" everyone is looking for and that perspective isn't from a lack of understanding, but from game play preferences. This game is better for you, but not for everyone.
I don't buy the "different strokes" argument. The OP didn't say "I didn't like GW2" he said "the odds are heavily stacked against Guild Wars 2 success." That's an objective statement.
He's essentially saying that GW2 will very likely fail because he didn't like the PvE, and he think WvW is the only redeeming factor but it's flawed. How can you not expect a bunch of people to argue against him?
This sentence say other wise he clearly did not play GW2 after saying this about GW2 and his obvious favorite themeparks he mentioned.
"1. PVE is not significantly better (or worse) than other MMORPGs ."
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
You know the funny thing about the OP's opinions. If you were to bring this up w/ any of the people in beta, you'd get:
- I'm not big on the PvE, but holy crap is the PvP awesome.
- I'm not big on the PvP, but holy crap are the events awesome.
- Pvp is fun, but I think I'll spend more time with the events.
- PvE is fun, but I think I'll spend more time with WvW / structured PvP.
- I can't wait to go exploring again!
- WTB more play time!
- I really wanna do more crafting..
etc.
See the pattern here? I don't know which planet the OP lives on, but you ask 12 people what they like about this game, and you get 14 different responses. Now, maybe other people have different definitions.. but to me that does not make for a failing game.
You don't have to complete one to chain it. The events chain based on either success or faliure. Basically, the events happen whether players are there or not but the way they chain depends on players performance.
Sooo, let me get this straight, you've played every major AAA game, but you've failed to play the game at which the PvP is focused on? DAoC?
If you haven't, then you can not speak on behalf of WvW, or what PvP is like in that situation, it isn't a typical biggest zerg wins, while generally true, and largely effective in 3 faction PvP, it is not the only factor in deciding "victory", which cancels out atleast 2 of your points (Zerg tactics/population balance). first we have server caps for the population, so the zerg can only get so large. Second you have a third server in there, which puts more check and balance on it.
Team A is defending a keep from team B
Team A has 60 people.
Team B has 100 people (typical numbers of DAoC)
Team B gets inisde the gates, starts pushing for the lord.
Team A is down to about 40 now falling back to the lord.
Team C comes in with aywhere from 40-80 people (again, typical DAoC numbers)
Team C within 2 minutes has half of Team Bs backfield dead.
Team A has 30-40, Team B has 40-60, and Team C is still pretty unscaithed.
Team C comes out victorious, despite having less numbers, they were tactically superior over both Team A and B.
That sums up population/zerg inbalance, it will be a big factor, but not the deciding factor.
Exploits--Problem with any game, This is up to the devs to fix ASAP, which were minimal in beta as is.
Class imbalances. This is good, you don't want EVERYONE equal in all situations. Warriors won't be a good defender until the front gates are down, Eles/rangers will have the superior advatage over them on the walls. But once inside they really have to watch getting tank rolled, because that is where the tanks/thiefs will dominate, So as far as "balance" goes, i hope it isn't "balanced" because then the PvP becomes, what is the new term now? "Care-bearish". Not every class should be equal in each scenario.
For lag and faction imbalance, I see less population imbalance for one reason, every server has the same classes. DAoC suffered in this part because some people couldn't play Mid casters, or Alb tanks, or Hib stealth, so a lot of people found what caught them and stuck with it, which on my server happened to be Alb, with GW2, everyone has the same classes/abilities/zones/everything. And lag is another thing that is up to the devs, the lag i was getting wasn't to terrible for a beta, i wouldn't buy the game if thats what it was at for release, but it will be better, DAoC had some problems with this when too many people hit one target at once, but now when i play it runs smooooth, so again, it's all in the devs hands and GW2 seems to have a pretty good team.
The things i don't like about GW2 WvW...
Chat, don't allow teams to see each other chat. Big no-no in my books.
Some sort of server progression, not armor, but a title, something that the enemy can see, i don't want to be labeled, "green invader" for the rest of time to come, Instead why not when you hit 5k solo kills make a title called "Red Infiltrator" at 200 keep takes you get crowned "Red Besieger" If you are a commander, and you get 5k kills with so many people at your back, you get crowned "Red Commander". Something to where my enemies know i've put time and effort into this guy as soon as they see my name, Thats what i want.
Sorry for the rant, but i think GW2's success lies within the community, ANet has given us everything we need to make this game become great, now it's up to the community to step up, and play the hell out of it. And DOMINATE WVW!!!!
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Umm, yeah. I've seen enough of these posts to tell when someone is being blankly disparaging, but veiling it behind the rhetoric of reasoned debate. Not interested in rehashing the same shit for the thousandth time for someone looking to score a few troll points. Here's a hint, when someone throws everything at you including the kitchen sink, they're just hoping that something will connect. The stuff you highlighted in red? Buckshot.
The most civil response he will get from me is, "I disagree".
GW2 don't need to be better, just as good as any P2P game. Since it have no monthly fees as good is enough.
The game is well made and I think it will do fine. I am not so sure that it will be the next Wow though, but I think the time when a single game ruled the market totally is fading fast and that 3 or 4 games will be about the same in active players instead.
If a MMO should repeat what Wow did it need to be on another platform. My guess is on "Class 4" for Xbox.
(A few Months ago SWTOR was about to come out)
the Irony
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
You mean the train wreck many of us saw coming long before launch.
Life IS Feudal
When WoW LAUNCHED IN 2004-5 it was a totally different time there where still almost no free to play and games like asherons call 2 failing. Diablo2 and warcraft3 was still fresh in memory huge fanbase and alot of new players to win in market where still not many huge mmo's excisted. In 2012 its a total different ballpark.
I still think that Guild Wars 2 bring us a rather unique game that can be very succeful even now.
Who thought in his sane mind that Skyrim as a solo RPG selling 13million copys(Dragonage Origin 3million/Masseffect3 not even past 2.5million) well i can tell you NOBODY.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
See you doing it again.. Ironic yet complain about others doing it to you.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I was in the very first beta test squadron for that game--Hutta 01. Back when even the press didn't know that the beta test was opened to the public.
I knew exactly what the game was and had an issue with slight dishonesty by the developers. So no, I'm not innocent by any count. But that doesn't make what I said any less true.
Yeah but you can't just apply a universal rule and act like all criticism is the same. Some is warranted, some isn't. For example, the OP says that PvE in GW2 is essentially mediocre but gives no reasons why. That is unwarranted criticism.
SWTOR on the other hand attempted to shove a huge single player game inside of an MMO-shell. I thought that was silly and I criticized it. I also criticized the personal story in GW2 because I thought it's the same thing.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Both (The OP and yours) look like subjective opinions to me, regardless of there being a why. If he felt it was mediocre, who is anyone else to say that's an unwarranted opinion?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't think this is the case. I think that boredom will eventually set in....at least for the PVE crowd. The dynamic events were kind of meh. They weren't all that different and the meta event I experienced seemed like complete chaos and nothing more than an uncoordinated zerg. Then there is the lack of socializing. I liked the fact that everyone was helping each other out, but the soft grouping made me feel kind of lonely while I was playing since there was no need to actually have a set group. While I think that GW2 is fun, I think the no subscription part allows it to be more of a secondary game for the PVE crowd when they are done completing the content and have seen the majority of the events. I just don't see repeating these events too many times.
Since when was it a sin to express opinion.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Subjective isn't the issue, not backing up your opinion is. He just said GW2 had mediocre PvE without any backing arguments. As such, it's an incredibly weak argument.
I also counter-argued against all of his points against WvW.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
The first openish beta event involved some zerging in WvW...shocking. Just to show one example of what WvW can be once people start to organise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPZHsfa6gEs
edit- the first part of the video gives an overview of the situation. The later parts shows the actual event towards the end.
That's easy. Their current game(s) don't hold their attention and they go to forums for amusement, which they define as getting a rise out of other people.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
Sorry OP but what a weak argument you put forth, with no facts what so ever.
Statements as bland as a swtor landscape.
You saw GW2 is slighlty better than a bunch of games you list, - that are by themselves not on an equal footing to begin with.
I never played GW1, i was put off by the name to begin with - sounded like a elitist PvP game that couldn't have been that good because it didn't have a sub.
Since my utter dissapointment with swtor and the fact that other games don't quite have what I'm after I looked into and had a go on GW2 and I think it rocks!
Given the current landscape of MMO's I would say the ODDs are stacked heavily in favour of GW2 success, OP you are so wrong.
Life IS Feudal
I have to agree with the OP. Another quest filled MMO is not what a lot of us were expecting. We were hoping the Dynamic Events were not Rifts or Public Quest with a fancy name.
I don't care how many people come out and stomp their feet, curse, yell, kick and scream. I saw those same people do the same thing for VG, AoC, SWTOR, WAR(I made the mistake of being one of them), and bunches of other games that quickly fell off the radar.
Another quest-until-you-fall-asleep from boredom game just isn't going to cut it for long.
I hope the WvWvW is worthy. At least, that is one thing a disagree with the OP on. Small groups should not be able to destroy a zerg via CC like you could in DAoC.