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Dynamic events consequences.
heartless
Member UncommonPosts: 4,993
in Guild Wars 2
Another great video by the same guy who made the video explaining how DEs and NPCs work. This one shows the concequences of failing DEs.
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EXCELLENT! I've been wanting to see a video about this! Thank you.
You're welcome, enjoy!
Very good video about this subject indeed.
Nice accent:)
Prolly from some eastern european country?
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Great vid, I heard dynamic events had more consequences later on from other players, but I didn't get far enough to see them myself in the Beta. It will be interesting to see what GW2 has in store for us in the mid to late levels. I think I remember them saying the Shatterer dragon was a lv 40 boss which gives me high hopes for end game.
Yeah, I was in a norn area where we failed to defend a city with walls around it. A small keep suppose.
What I want to see is the ice elementals begin to build their own fortress if you don't take it for a while.
He's from Malta. He said so in the comments for the first video.
I love his videos, they really show just how different GW2 is compared to your average quest grind MMO.
Release can't come soon enough.
thank you for posting this, that guy has a great eye for detail and explains it well
On the one hand I like how the events in general pull you through the game without forcing you to be at a particular quest hub or running fed ex missions etc. It did make the pve experience more enjoyable with many ooh and ahh moments.
On the other hand I am somewhat sad to see the DE chains to be somewhat shallow at the early levels, especially with so many people moving through the area's it seems the critters rarely get the upper hand. I have hopes that this system will be expanded to make the world a little less static, but as of the first Beta Weekend the lvl 1-10 area's still felt very static on a tight short loop constantly repeating. I want more dynamics to the dynamic events. They are on the right path - I just hope they stay on this path and widen it a bit and not go off onto another path entirely by thinking thier DE system is good to go.
I believe ANet did it on purpose. The first zone is basically a tutorial zone and they want to ease you into the game and how the DEs work. without frustrating you with failures from the get go.
Also keep in mind that especially right after release, the newbie zones will be zerged by hundreds of players just like they were during the BWE. It's possible that there are fail conditions for those events but due to the sheer number of players participating it's impossible to fail them.
I like the guy doing the videos, he's open to the DE idea and it's great that he's sharing his experiences and teaching people about the game. Everytime I watch GW2 vids now though, I have withdrawal pangs. Woe is I!
Yeah, I have seen a couple of this guys vids now and they are really good. I LIke the way he shows you all the different branches of what can happen, not just one outcome.
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Also keep in mind that the mobs' difficulty scales with the number of people participating.
I know for a fact stuff like that happens, I don't know abot the early level places but, back last year the said that happens and even showed it, it had to do with the undead when they take over the enviroment changes and the tree areas change as well after time, so does the fortress has an undead scheme, and it's not instant, it's after time, they show it and experiencing it is even more fun. Though that was a level 40+ area I believe.
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Thank you man the last video this guy made about DEs is grt i will watch this one right now!
To be honest as I gained levels I noticed Dynamic Events became LESS dynamic (and there were a lot less of them).
At level 17ish in the second human area you have to defend a mine, a cave and some fortress thing (that looks like it's made of garbage) almost ad nauseum....it never really seemed like any of these events went anywhere. We were either defending or attacking those 3 location s(or escorting one of those yaks between two of the sites).
Then in Snowden Drifts around level 22...I wandered for about 15-20 minutes without encountering a single dynamic event. Granted they probably haven't finished out the content in those zones yet, but still...the one event I did end up finding was to retake a town (Podaga or something)...I retook it...and then defended... then cleared a nearby cave. Then it ended. I left and came back 3 hours or so later and what did I find? An event to retake the town....and defend it....and clear a nearby cave. The exact same thing that happened last time.
freakin' awesome.
I actually got to see this in play a few times during the BWE< even in the starting human area (Queensdale)
On several occasions, roving waves of bandits or centaurs would attack settlements, and wipe them off the map if a good defense wasn't hatched. Unlike Rift, where that meant you were basically screwed because all the NCPS were dead, they shift elsewhere, and you pick up new quests to drive the baddies out.
This also works in reverse. I wandered across a centaur camp near the swamp, and saw a quest to take it away from them. I and several random people wandering nearby all pitched in to what reminded me a lot of the open world pvp mechanics WoW put in Burning Crusade (sit by the flag, keep enemies away from it, slowly take over). After a long and grueling fight we won, and the NPCs that set us up for it became vendors.
Those kinds of sitautions are exciting...until you return to the area several times and realize they just keep happening over and over...either 1 team controls that place, or the other...and your mission is pretty much to either attack or defend.
There dynamic quests, where a succesful attack lead to something new, which lead to something else, which BRANCHED (did not see much branching) were few and far between. THere was a good one in Queensdale that was several steps (helping a farm, putting out a fire, rescuing prisoners)...but even that one was still linear...I did it 3 or 4 times and every time it was the same.
EDIT:
What I expected in dynamic events, which I just didn't experience, was events that could truly branch based on decisions you made during the event. Not a branch where you either "succeed" or "fail" but an event where you could succeed in multiple different ways, leading to different outcomes. Say you defend that base, but the leader falls in battle...that should lead to something different then if you are succesful and everyone survive. Right now no matter who dies they all just get revived at the end if you succeed. Or say you have to attack some centaur base...well you could go through the front door, or you could try sabotage...and those would lead to DIFFERENT outcomes.
I just don't see a linear set of quests as "dynamic". Yes helping that child lead to another event which lead to another event...but how is that any different than one quest leading to another quest leading to another quest? It's still just linear. Sure if you fail something else happens, but in a PvE game lets be honest...how often will failure happen? No one wants to fail just to see new content...so they need to design MULTIPLE ways to succeed, so allow for branching content that will actually be experienced. I haven't seen that yet.
I will grant this, and it's one of my bigger concerns with the game. All we can do there is hope there will be more varied outcomes in alter zones, as the video the OP linked suggested.
There was a town in the human zone, level 15 area. It got taken over since there was only myself and one other there during the invasion. I ended up doing a few PvP matches and decided to come back to the area and when I got there, saw that the invaders had put up barriers and even had some arrow carts built on the walls of the town. Not sure if them taking that town affected other areas around it, but just seeing that they had not only taken the town, but fortified it as well gave me a good feeling about the PvE in this game.
lasting DE effects is a very trickly thing to do in a MMO.. you need to find a balance between making it feel like you acomplished something and making it so more than just a group of players can enjoy the events.. From what I played DE in GW2 feel like a huge step up from anything done before.. it has a smilar feeling to an extent of rifts invasion and zone events but with more of a centralized purpose to each one rather than just doing the same thing over and over like you do in rift.. I for one can't really think of a better way to implement this type of DE system in a MMO since you need to allow so many differen't people experience the game. Either way i found it a immensly better system than your basic quest hub to quest hub questing we have gotten used to over the years.
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It's not a perfect system by far but it is the best we have as far as questing goes in MMOs. If I had to pick between an average quest grind and dynamic events, I'd choose DEs every time. Sure, they reset eventually but it's still miles ahead of some dude with a huge "!" over his head requesting 15 rat testicles from the rats that are just hanging out 5 feet away.
And who knows? Maybe in higher zones the DEs really do have lasting concequences but even if they not, it's still much better than questing.
I think part of the disconnect/problem here is that some people heard "dynamic" and jumped several steps ahead to "virtually unrecognizable from questing as we know it" despite the fact that in the very articles where ANet describes its dynamic event system, we can see that events play out exactly as described. They did not promise multiple outcomes, so it seems strange to be disappointed now that there are not multiple outcomes. The time to be disappointed would have been immediately after that article was published.
Instead, I fear this is a victim of the delay between the concepts being laid out and seeing them implemented. We've barely been able to experiment dynamic events, but we've had 2 years to envision how they could be EVEN BETTER and so we are disappointed with what they are instead of appreciating how they are, indeed, different from standard quests.
And they *are* different from standard quests. Trying to minimize their variation by saying that ultimately you are still just moving from one event to another can't help but come across as disingenuous because at the moment there isn't another MMO that makes even that much of a difference in approach. Not rifts, and not public quests. The video linked in other threads that show what happens if you follow an NPC around following an event... where does that happen? In what MMO?
This is not to say we shouldn't be interested in events that do even more, and ANet themselves have indicated that now that they've gotten the system down by heart they can branch out and try even more variation in the mechanics in later events that they will be adding to the game.
Further, there are certain activities that ANet won't implement in their events because they are more able to be griefed. The mention of things like sabotage, sneaking, etc. can be griefed by players who purposely give away locations, etc. (this discussion was had during the "Designing Dynamic Events" panel at a convention last year, if you're curious; at the time someone suggested the players allow themselves to be captured and stage a jailbreak, but the devs indicated that they wouldn't allow something like that in a DE because it could be sabotaged by other players). Just something to keep in mind.
I just think this is a bit of a case of wanting more than was promised and having two years to think on how much more it could be than was promised. It's an understandable response, but not entirely reasonable.
In most mmos i've played there have been quests where after it was completed, you click on their exclamation point again and they start moving, and you follow them and that is part of the next quest. I agree it's disingenuous to not give credit where credit is due, but I think it's also disingenuous to not look at the traditional "exclamation poitn" type quests and not realize that aside from having to click on their exclamation point, many of them can function in a very similar way to DE's, and many of them are just as dramatic/"dynamic" appearing.
Also, I can't speak for everyone making this claim but at least in my case I didn't watch the videos or read the descriptions of guild wars 2. I didn't really follow the game that much. I heard in passing about dynamic events, because lots of people liked to bring up guild wars 2 in random conversations about other MMO's (mostly SWTOR), but I never read about it directly. So when I hear the buzz phrase "Dynamic events" yes I admit I had in my mind an actual DYNAMIC event, not just a linear sequence of events (assuming you don't fail). While yes it is dynamic that when you fail something else happens...that really isn't all that exciting in my opinion. I don't know about you, but I don't really plan to fail all that often so that is a lot of content that is wasted.
One thing I will recognize though is it's hard to get a true idea of the depth of the events, or the branching system, right now during weekends because the early areas are so densely populated these events are cycling super fast. Once the zones are little more sparse we can actually try to discover some of the branch points (if there are any).
Though I'm not completely optimistic considering I tried to get away from large crowds and still found fairly linear quest chains (or none at all). As I said previously, I spent 15-20 minutes wandering snowden drifts without finding a single dynamic event (and I was mostly alone during that time). When I finally did find one it was a traditional "Retake this town" which I repeated twice, once after leaving for an hour to play pvp, and a third time the next day. The quest played out identical every time (I succeeded every time so I can't comment on losing). Didn't really seem all that dynamic in my opinion.
EDIT:
And while it is great that they are replacing quests with these events...the problem with that is most games have dozens of quests per "quest hub". Replacing 7 or 8 quest lines with 1 or 2 dynamic events just doesn't cut it. You are bound to repeat the dynamic events. To be honest in the beta weekend I repeated content FAR FAR FAR more often than a traditional mmo. Was the content more fun? Maybe, but it was DEFINITELY more repetitive since there were just so much less of it. Yes each dynamic event is "exciting and interesting", but it suddenly becomes less so when you have to repeat it over and over again because there aren't enough to move your character forward in level. I ran into a hole 2 or 3 times (one around level 12, another around level 17, another as I was finishing around level 24) where I ended up just repeating events because I had finished all the content up to 4 or 5 levels above me. THere just wasn't enough. (This was without traveling to another race's zone. I really want to stick to the human zones...eventually it just became unbearable and I had to switch).
It's the quality that matters not the quantity. I rather have 1 or 2 epic events than 7 or 8 "kill 10 wolves and get me their ears" quests. Even when you have to repeat the DEs, they are still much more engaging than the usual MMO quests.
Besides that, most areas have a lot more than 1 or 2 DEs. Just outside of Divinity's Reach I can think of like 7-8 of the top of my head. Not to mention the hearts.