Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
What would you think of a Remake of Ultima Online-- with 1 huge feature added in? FFA PvE (PvP) to r
LeegOfChldrn
Member Posts: 364
Updated graphics, user interface, animations, etc, but still the same 2.5D (2D) game we all knew and loved. Similar art style, gameplay, skills-- the works, up to even including the Paperdolls and mouse-dragging items / backpack.
However, there's 1 huge change. In replace of FFA PvP, there is Monster Creation, and Monster Warbands. A player can use a Monster Currency (Monster Points) to play as the monsters, which allows for FFA full PvP.
Granted full loot wouldn't really exist like it would in a FFA PvP game, as the monsters would collect the player's loot (and be able to become more powerful the more they killed players and took their stuff. Or perhaps instead it's all "sold" and translated into monster points, and if the player defeats the Monster Play they can loot all their stuff back.)
Monster Play would consist of the following:
Monster Spawn.
A player can spawn as a monster, based on the various monster spawns. Whether it is an Orc Fort, Lich Dungeon, or Dragon Cave, the player spends his monster points to spawn a new monster, slightly customized and equipped from a small selection. (Perhaps the Lich picks their 5 spells, or the Orc picks if they're a Warrior, Mage, Archer, etc. The more upgrades, the more Monster Points.)
Upon logout, the monster acts as a player would, and can be logged in again. The Monster Points are spent upon spawn, and the monster stays playable until the player deletes it (to spawn as a new monster) or it dies.
All Monsters suffer Permadeath.
Monster Progress is through Monster Points, not Character progression. These points are gained through killing players or monster players. They can be spent on regular player items/bonuses for those who dont want to play as a monster but want to benefit from PvP points.
Monster Spawns are locations/cities,
such as an Orc Fort, which can be raided, protected, or enforced. For example, the more a player participates as an Orc from Orc Fort#4, the stronger the Orc Fort can become. This could include anything from better stats for all Orcs (NPC and Player), Monster Point increase (xp buff), more NPC guards, etc. These locations themselves (which are not the same as other Orc Forts which do not have monster spawns) can be sieged by players in a Monster vs Player siege, possibly including siege weaponry, large monsters, and Bosses.
Bosses are special monster spawns.
Besides being limited in spawn population and being very high in MP cost, Boss and SubBoss spawns require Boss Tokens. (Either special MP items or very expensive MP items). Bosses include monsters that take from (full group to raid group) to defeat, and Sub-bosses take (a small group to full group) to defeat. These would be monsters such as Balrogs, Dragons, Lich Lords, etc.
The Idea borrows a lot from the The Left 4 Dead mechanic
It is the job of the Monster Player to drain the resources and slowly wear away the player in the dungeon, more than it is their job to win a 1v1. The Monster Player is suppose to spawn many many times throughout the dungeon process, eventually beating the player group by either a final fight (Boss / Subboss) or through teamwork & attrition at the right moment (with NPC aid). Although monsters cost monster points, the most basic monsters are free (no cost) and spammable (easier for players to kill) monsters are cheap or merely free + small upgrade. If monster players are in a dungeon for a set amount of time (and are active) they may get tougher free monster spawns occassionally.
City Raids
When enough resources / power are gathered, Monster Spawns (monster cities) can declare a raid against player cities. Ex. the local swamp Lizardmen have had enough monster player influence to declare a raid at 7pm against the nearby city of Muneglow. All participating players can either spawn as Monsters and attack the city, or defend it as a player. Once decided, they cannot switch sides. (Although they can switch from Monster Raider back to their human player, but as their human player they cannot participate in the human-side of the town defense and so are only capable of acting like scared citizens.)
NO SAFE SPOTS?
Monster Spawns are limited in location, but there are Monster Spawns throughout the world, and very few safe spots. For example, all dungeons would have multiple monster spawns (or the entire dungeon would be a monster spawn city). Yet while the Orc Fort may spawn orcs to roam around the Eastern City, those same orcs can't go to the Western City. Fortunately the Undead Graveyard may spawn undead around the Western City, so Monster Players can still go almost anywhere.
So there IS FFA PvP, but it is not a human vs human mechanic. It's a Monster vs Human mechanic. Monsters can include human-characters such as Pirates, Bandits, etc. Monsters can group up, travel the majority of the world, etc. Not every monster is restricted to specific areas. For example, Pirates (Monster) would be treated as a "Red" where they spawn at Buccaneers Den, with their boat (and NPC allies in boat) and can travel anywhere. But if they enter a city, the guards will kill them.
Guards, however, are not instant-teleport 1-hit-kill robots like in UO. Guards are more prevalent in cities, roam around, and call each other (slowly) to eventually mean that a group of pirates could try to PK people inside a city (especially around a docks) if they managed to kill a few guards (it would be easier for the players to run away if the PK's also had to fight NPC guards)
So while there ARE safe zones, there are no invicible areas. There might even be stealth monsters which can sneak into cities via dark alleys, or disguise themselves as humans (Human Thief- is a Monster) and steal from player's backpacks.
It would be like No-Trammel UO, but with permadeath for Monster Players, easier safety in city for human players, and less likelihood of random PK's teleporting in to ruin the gameplay of casuals. Instead, casuals know exactly what to expect, monsters, and stay within their limitations. If you stay at level 1 of a dungeon, you wont fight anything tougher than you.
There are possible exploits to a monster-possession system, but it could be as simple as a Monster Player gets NOTHING (No loot, no gold, no monster points) unless they attack their Quest Target, and Monsters cannot spawn unless they are balanced player populations (a ratio of Monster Power : Player Power, so if there's only 1 player in the dungeon, the number of monster players and monster power won't exceed what 1 player can handle).
This could lead to monster players and players easily forming groups to protect themselves, and thus becoming more powerful to enter deeper into a dungeon.
Comments
Actually, in such a game...
There would be 0 reasons to not create two separate servers.
SERVER #1: A complete remake of Classic UO, including FFA PvP with Red PK's, etc. etc. (As close as possible without getting sued). Identical but 2012 user interface, graphics, etc.
SERVER #2: The OP version. UO with FFA PvP replaced by Monster Play.
You inevitably subscribe to 1 MMORPG for $15/month, and get BOTH the classic UO server with updated UI/graphics, AND the revolutionary Monster Player + Keep Sieges / Town Raids + Left4Dead dungeon experience.
Would I be interested; Hell yes. Would the current genre of MMO gamers be interested; Maybe, but doubtful.
Most of my old group who enjoyed those type of games have given up and moved on.
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
For me, monster play is still PvP and I'm not interested in being a part of it.
Heh, even elements of old school stuff such as found in UO would be groundbreaking today because it's so rare. Sad state of affairs.
MMORPG Gaming: 1998 > 2012
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Well then, I guess I have a lot of work to do :P
It will be fun, as making each "Monster" will be like making unique MOBA heroes :P
One of the coolest features that is a MUST for any sort of "Monster Play" game, would of course be Player Dungeons. Dungeon Keeper 2 anyone?
UO from time to time has been discussed on these forums.
It's amazing that the grandfather of mmo's never really got an update to todays technology.
There have been updates to the game, but a general overhall never happened.
It was one of the best games out there as a sandbox game!
It sounds interesting
Game full of griefing still...check...no thanks.
The system would eventually get abused with large guilds. Find a Boss spawn, run back to your guild and stand there as they take you down and not press a button.
It would be an interesting mechanic, then again, forced PvP is the best way to make your game a more specialized niche game. Even though it may seem that Open PvP is a great thing and that open loot is awesome, games that embrace such ideals I cannot forsee having longevity. Eventually people want to have safety and security in game. The whole "Police" system is a bad idea, too much like real life. I used to be a hardcore PvP-er, now I can't stand it. People change, it gets old. Now I play to relax and for lore.
In a nutshell, I am more anti-pvp than ever, but I never would say remove it. People enjoy it. Just don't force it on the players.
WinnTech
The attempted updates to the UO client are a fascinating case study in performance-vs-pixles, consumer expectations and the psychology of player perception. They were not small projects, but rather noble failures that attempted to achieve complete continuity of the world but alas proved a bridge too far.
I fear the greatest problem UO faces is that the core player base has wildly conflicting (and rigidly held) views of what UO was. The game was essentially an inkblot onto which people projected their own imagination and the atmosphere was a unique moment in the history of the genre that cannot simply be recreated on demand. This thread is a wonder demonstration of this - look at how the OP suggestion's gets a mix of enthusiasm and outright rejection. Even the small subset of people posting here can't agree if this idea is in keeping with the spirit of their nostalgia.
In my book , it`s a very convulted and overly complicated system ....and i see no reason why i would chose anything like this over good old FFA fool loot pvp
personally , i would love it if things would be moved in the exactly oposite direction . Far less emphasis on PvE , far more emphasis on PvP .Give me wars for teritory , for resources , give me wars of extermination , give me politics and ganking , give me real death penalties and losses , and drop things like instances and rediculous "raids" vs Bosses , and i`ll gladly pay $30 or even $50/month for a game like that . (yes i am playing EvE , sometimes i reactivate my Darkfall too , just to check on things)
PvE is PvE , and to me , PvE in a MMO is grind . And the more complicated it is , the more frustrating and ...not at all fun...
I would love it if MMO`s woul start moving away from the focus they have on PvE right now . Give me full FFA PvP with an economy sustained by crafters/gatherers instead of mob farmers and i`ll be very very happy about it. Make PvE more of a side-thing .
But this is just my oppinion , and i know i`m in a very small minority
I would think an updated version of the origional UO would be the best bet no need to change somthing that was so good.
Updated graphics engine and UI would be awesome
the idea is interesting. a good 1st compilation, how a good monster play could look like.
however, it does not solve the issue, that the majority of players dont like non-consensual pvp. i prefer the approach of EVE, where you have with the Empire a huge, literally safe zone. it could be even safer than in EVE. i would not care. the size of this EVE Empire area corresponds in size to an entire continent in a fantasy setting. so the first thing, they should do e.g. with Darkfall 2.0 is, to make the entire existing continent safe and PVE only. now add a good sandbox-compatible quest system or even better a dynamic event system. sandbox compatible means, no uber-loot or item drops at all. just ressources and other reward-types not hurting the player driven economy.
than add 3 more coninents of this size. these are PvP continents. they dont need huge cities and other workintensive objects. just provide landscape and add versatile features for building, archiecture, terraforming, planting and breeding animals and the players will do the rest. however there might be dynamic events on the PvP continents, too, in order to disturb and surprise the pvp-colonists and keep them busy. of course the entire world should be based on a player driven economy to give a good reason for guilds to conquer and hold a rich territory. now in this scenario and just on the pvp continents your well described monster play would fit perfectly as an additional gameplay.
however, i doubt any developer and/or publisher nowadays got the balls to make an AAA sandbox with UOs mechanics and huge territories for real territorial PvP like in EVE. but i keep on dreaming.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
What if there were no humans or players at all, and the entire game was "monster play"?
Human being replaced by human-classes, such as "Thief", "Knight", "Cleric", "Alchemist", "Wizard", etc.
You'd be able to dye the characters' outfits like in UO, and perhaps customize some character's weapons or emblems (like tabards, possibly) but what if ALL players were Monster Players?
And all monsters were customizable, with a base depending on the race/class. With there being 5 variations of every "race". Players combine 3-5 choices to make their characters. There would be many monster races (200 minimum) to choose from, with each variation that's 40 monster races. The problem is there would be only 200 ways to look (besides dye choices or emblems). Ex. All Orc Warriors would look identical, even if their stats/talents/abilities can be customized further.
For example,
Take 2 Races: Human, Elemental
Human Race grants Human based traits, stats, and abilities. The 5 variants of human could be "Thief, Wizard, Knight, Cleric, Paladin". All 5 variants have the human race traits/stats, and based on the 5 variants get additional skills. Finally, progression points, weapon type (ex. Sword, Mace, Axe), and a talent specialization can further define these characters. All thieves would look identical except dye choices, so it would be the equivalent of everyone having "epic armor" on from level 1 to end game, never changing.
Elemental Race gets Elemental based traits/stats, and then the 5 variants are the elemental type (Air, Water, Fire, Earth, Ice) which give unique abilities (perhaps Water is a Healer variant, while Fire is a pure DPS variant, with Earth giving Tank skills, Ice being CC, Air being mobility.) Then after picking Fire Elemental you pick 5 out of 15 fire spells, spec your talent tree to enhance those spells, etc.
If there were over 200 monsters to choose from (human being included) and deep character development/customization would that make up for the fact there would be 0 aesthetic variations between specific variants? (Orc Warrior and Orc Archer would obviously have different looks, but ALL Orc Warriors would look identical to ALL OTHER Orc Warriors.) With the exception of dye colors in costume/skin tone, possibly some hair/face choices, and some limited weapon/shield choices.
i agree..making UO and more pve game than PVP is bad mmkay?
UO without the "Slap in the FAce" feature...would never be the Same UO experience...call it as you like, but would not be interested personally in a mock up PvP system.
UO was not about the Loot either...all Items could be Droped or Crafted with much ease.
People fought because UO permited players to either walk the Virtuous path or the Unvirtuous Path. In other words, players had the opportunity to choose between being Good or Evil.
And it is that Live struggle between Good and Evil that served as the foundation of its Charm and Glamour.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Do you think there would be any way to allow FFA PvPers to enjoy a UO type game where there IS a Felucca / Trammel type system? Not that there are two worlds, but in the design that there ARE safe zones and the UNSAFE zones are MORE rewarding PvE loot and treasure.
I'm still interested in what others think of my above concept of there not even being a player character and instead ALL characters are "monster play". (See above this post)