There is no such thing as a bad game, only mediocre ones.
The strange thing is that people have the idea they deserve the absolute best one out there, and everything else isn't worth their time... even if it's free, and they have nothing better to do with their time in the first place.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
There is no such thing as a bad game, only mediocre ones.
The strange thing is that people have the idea they deserve the absolute best one out there, and everything else isn't worth their time... even if it's free, and they have nothing better to do with their time in the first place.
So can i put you on record as saying that "ET" for the Atari was not a bad game?
But to the point. Games are getting worse. I recently resubbed to vanguard for a bit, and you know what? Its a great game with lots of freedom, you can fill up your character slots with different characters and none will follow the same path to max level (unlike current MMO's which basically railroad you on a specific path limiting your freedom).
There is no such thing as a bad game, only mediocre ones.
The strange thing is that people have the idea they deserve the absolute best one out there, and everything else isn't worth their time... even if it's free, and they have nothing better to do with their time in the first place.
So can i put you on record as saying that "ET" for the Atari was not a bad game?
But to the point. Games are getting worse. I recently resubbed to vanguard for a bit, and you know what? Its a great game with lots of freedom, you can fill up your character slots with different characters and none will follow the same path to max level (unlike current MMO's which basically railroad you on a specific path limiting your freedom).
Actually Vanguard is a GREAT game. I will definately be playing that more once it goes F2P - not that i havent played it recently, i got my ranger up to lvl 42 or 43 or something like that just havent had time to re-install on my new computer yet. Huge game with so much content and really helpful people in game. Sad that people just do not seem to want quality, they seem to prefer new just for the sake of new even if older games are much more fun. I don't really understand that mentality. Many simply refuse to give a game a 2nd chance even... Vanguard has really become a great game since its many issues at launch.
THe problem is we see the games from one point of view, the game manufacturers/publishers see it from another......While we are looking for innovation and creativity, they are looking to make the most money possible...... The reason why so many are sticking with tried and true formulas is they are still working.......They aren't going to invest 100 million making a game if its unknown whether it will sell or not.
It's like dating baggage. They compare the new comer to girlfriends of the past especially to the one that is long gone. They want those old feelings back not understanding that it can never comeback.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
tl:dr It's bad games and bored gamers. MMOs lack the depth to keep players interested for months on end and it will take big changes to the genre to ever fix that.
To my mind, it's a problem of both bad games and bored gamers. At the risk of being branded a heretic, I believe that the "MMO concept"-- playing one game over the course of months/years/decades-- is already a great stretch at a time when new iterations of the same title come out every year or two. In the old days, devs could get away by creating immense grind and timesinks to keep people's progression slow enough that they'd have to play for months just to see everything. The opposite is true now and the systems that replaced it, quest-grinding and gear-treadmills, are showing themselves to be little better. Even GW2, which I hope lives up to the accolades it's getting now, hasn't necessarily solved the problem of what to do once you've played the game for three months, seen your share of dynamic quests, and taken/given a variety of lumps in the WvWvW PvP area.
The fact that MMOs don't have much in the way of strategic depth or emergent gameplay or true dynamism like, say, chess means that most gamers will play for a short while then move onto something fresh when the boredom starts to creep in. Beyond Skinner-box reward systems or back-and-forth PvP or new dungeons now and again, there's really not much more to see once you've spent a couple months in a game. As mentioned before, a large number of MMO vets are looking to recreate that initial moment of excitement when they first were introduced to the genre. Most of us tend to be nomadic, with the only ties to games being the relationships built up with friends/guildies or the feeling of time/effort invested in a particular game.
What's most damning, particularly here, is that some vets have a myopic view of the genre. Sure, they've seen everything, so there's very little that can wow them (pun not intended). For people just coming into the fold, however, *all* the games are new, all the experiences are fresh. The so-called WoW-clone that's easy to diss as derivative today will be someone's future Everquest or UO or Meridian in five or ten years. Though no doubt the older games did some things better, the reality is that the genre has moved on (and grown) by shedding many of the things they did poorly. The strong negativity shown towards any game that doesn't wear its gameplay pants and shirt backwards like Criss-Cross only makes vets (who may have a legit point) look all the more jaded and possessed of rose-colored glasses.
It's also tempting to say that the future is in sandboxes; after all, they have the potential to be more dynamic, offer more obvious chances to build up community, while recent themeparks have taken a real hit. However, I think it's more complex than that. MMOs will have to change to become more than fronts for F2P cash-shops in the future. It will likely take a re-envisioning of what these games are supposed to accomplish and how players are to stay connected and entertained to get there. It's more than a matter of building virtual worlds and watching gamers flood in. Until devs figure out how to build games that are both commercially-viable and continually fresh over a period of years, we're going to see new MMOs bashed and old MMO vets pining for that perfect game.
I like the gross generalization that people who don't like the current crop of MMO's are sitting in there house all day playing games for longer then they work, and need to get out more.
That you're not flaming, or insulting anyone, but simply generalizing.
And then pressume to know that they're obviously bored with the genre, and place the blame on them.
If you don't want to inult anyone, don't generlize your opinion or infer that anyone who doesn't like the a particular game must be sitting inside all day, with no life, and treating gaming like a job.
Because I read the entire thing and all I could think was how insulting it was.
And typically, when you have to apologize in advance or state that you're not trying to be insult anyone but, it means you're insulting someone. Even if it's not intentional, you obviously knew it, why write it way? I don't apologize, or insist I'm not doing something if I don't know or think I'm doing something.
I'm sorry sir, I'm not trying to steal your car but, peace! Really now.
And seriously, this " When I say "you" i just mean gamers in general, so please do not take offsense" is just so wrong.
Uhmm....
You're not talking about anyone specifically, just generalizing an entire group of people. That's not insulting at all!
Your post puts people into one of two catagories, because you chose to generalize everyone. The group that thinks like you, and then the grop that doesn't, who are obviously a bunch of losers who sit around and just play games all day. Of course you didn't say it specifically, but when you talk about "gamers in general" that's what happens.
Why not just tell us how you really feel? Oh wait, looks like you just did.
If you are only here to say TL/DR, save yourself the trouble and find another thread to troll... read, discuss, or don't, either way have fun and don't take life, or gaming, so seriously....
We all see it when we come to these forums... constant hatred and bashing of recently released MMO's going back to AOC and Warhammer on through SWTOR and more recently GW2 and Tera. The hate gets so profound that it is as if people take it personally that a game doesn't fit all of their personal needs and wants. I see people bash an MMO because it fails to have one feature they want...granted I am not surprised, because I understand the frustration, but developers cannot appease everyone.
I also notice gamers seem to bash games simply because of the lack of innovation. This is what I just do not get. These are games, they are not designed to replace your life. They will all revolve around killing monsters, doing quests, PVP in some form or another - that's it... it will never get any better. The graphics will never replace the real world outside.
Many seem to play these games more than they would a full time job, and that is not what the games were meant to be. Games are a distraction. They are meant to be relaxing, challenging, rewarding, but not a replacement to your life. Many attempt to finish all game content as quick as possible just to get to end game just to complain there is a lack of content... so i do not blame developers anymore.. i blame the diseased, sick young gamers nowadays that can never be satisified by anything that is released, regardless of quality.
It is these same gamers who bash the few games that have survived and flourished throughout the last decade or so, namely EVE online and World of Warcraft. People want a challenge, but then complain EVE is too difficult. People want a WOW replacement, but hate WOW.
Hate to break it to everyone, but YOU are the problem. It is not the developers - you buy games that are unfinished even though you beta tested...then complain its not complete at release... or you buy a game without waiting to read reviews from the early adopters because you fear you will be too late to endgame if the game turns out good.
The reality seems to be that gamers are searching for that perfect game just like a surfer is constantly in search of the perfect wave. But it will never come. The difference is that surfers enjoy the ride regardless, and gamers are just content to sit in their game chair in front of a monitor and forget there is a world that exists outside of the game world, that the sun is shining, your friends, family, job, and if relavant, school work is neglected...
I say this not to create a flame fest, just to encourage discussion about what is truly important in your life. Gaming is a great hobby, one I truly enjoy... i admit i have fallen to exactly what I have described above years ago. When I say "you" i just mean gamers in general, so please do not take offsense. Gaming is indeed a disease, people are becoming addicted to them and it is these gamers that are in fact ruining the genre they claim is being destroyed by developers. I do not disagree that many games are released with bugs and we feel are incomplete, but really that is only in comparison to games that have been out and released for years with many content expansions... yet we expect at least that much content on day one of newer MMO's, with a perfect release, no bugs, just the right amount of servers at launch, and no queue's... is that realistic??
Whatever you like to do, just remember that everything is fine with balance. If you are on your 3rd, 4th, or 12th mmo and still can't stick with one and always compare each mmo to your first, then perhaps it is just that you are bored with MMO's, and not that the latest released MMO is truly evil and out to get you?
anyway, hope you all have a great week.
Drokar
There are two issues here.
The first is that some people can't distinguish between Personal Taste and Quality when it comes to games. Simply because you don't LIKE a game, doesn't mean that the game is BAD.
Take SW:TOR and WoW. I played both of these games for around a month each. I found that the way the games played just wasn't for me. There was something about them that rubbed me the wrong way. However, I recognize that they are both well-made games. WoW isn't a Bad Game, and Neither is SW:TOR. They just didn't work for me.
The second is that some people don't realize that a well made game can still be BAD in other very important ways.
Warhammer online is a great example. It was well made, but still just not a great game. Why? It really butchered its IP. Warhammer is a game about squads and groups. Not about individual combat. You have a number of different armies that fitght each other, its not a source of "Order vs Chaos". So the entire design of the game compromised what made warhammer the game that it is, and this turns off players.
As you get older you find that you have to spend more and more time in the real world and that's hard for some people to accept. They keep looking for the perfect game where they can abandon their real life in favor of a fantasy world where they can feel needed or more powerful than they actually are in the real world. Unfortunately it is unrealistic to expect to be able to replace your real life with a game life and it can be upsetting when people are faced with this reality.
ya, i agree, it took me a while to accept this, but now that i am older i have other responsibilities, and gaming comes in behind them all... just can't play hardcore like i used to.. i have a good job, good place to live, friends, family... gaming just seems so much less important than it did, but you brought up good points... those were the reasons i used to play, i moved a lot when i was younger and didn't have many friends, so i played mmo's. now i just feel like i missed out and i have to try and make up for lost time spent in front of my computer.
dont get me wrong, i still game, but only when i have time, and usually for no more than an hour at a time.
I don't really feel this way. I play games to unwind and have fun the same way I hang out with friends and have a drink or 2 sometimes. I'd hope most people were the same way. If they are playing games for OldManFunk's reasons I hope they seek some professional help.
Hi, my name is WhiteLantern, and I'm bored with the genre.
I think I've finally come to terms with the issue and I'd like to move forward. The realization hit me when I looked at all of the games I'm waiting (not so) patiently for: Assassin's Creed 3, Bioshock Infinite, Borderlands 2, Dishonored, Lego Batman 2, Torchlight 2, X Com: Enemy Unknown. I really have no desire to play any of the upcoming MMO releases. I do still enjoy a few of the current crop, but not at the level I once did.
Admission is the first step, right?
/sit down
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I played UO for 5 years since late 97/early 98. I've played other MMOs (never played WoW, EVE, few others) that lasted about 4 months if I'm lucky. I personally think it's the games on my part, but if you're someone who has played every MMO to man you're probably bored of the genre in general. I don't feel bored of it, I feel the genre kind of sucks now (waiting for GW2 so let's see).
I actually feel I have more time to game now that I'm older (29) because if you think about it. I personally don't go clubbing/bar hopping anymore, have a live in girlfriend with two damn dogs. I hang out with friends here and there, but I'm really not much of a drinker anymore (I lean towards cannabis).
Basically my schedule consists of wake up, work, come home, do whatever with the gf for a while, hop on PC play some games. It's pretty exciting..I know. I'm sure if I had kids that would be a different story. Not planning that for a while though.
1) There are plenty of good fun games to play (for example, Diablo 3).
2) I am NOT bored of them. If i were, i would not be playing them.
3) Yes, there are bad games/MMOs. You won't see me playing them though. I only play those i like .. is that so hard to grasp? People don't use entertainment products they do not like because ... they don't have to. There are always alternative entertainment.
If I was playing themeparks out now I would be bored to death.
But Im not. Having fun actually with the sandbox Im playing now, espectially because our guild is tight and the player content is very plentiful at this time.
MMORPG's are so bad right now that I am in no danger of becoming addicted to anything. In fact, I am spending far too much (mostly all) time in real life. I like some aspects of GW2 and see myself playing it casually as long as I have friends playing it. The triple A MMORPG genre though is just not fun anymore. There is no challenge, only time commitment. Hot key cooldown combat really isn't all that great though. It's just not exciting enough. It seems that most activities in MMORPG's are fairly meaningless and the games are designed so even a chimp would never "lose". I have no faith in the big developers but I am betting we will see some cool things from smaller developers and modders. The DayZ mod for Arma2 is a great example. The mod caused a nearly 3 year old rather buggy and unpopular game to suddenly start out selling CoD and BF3. Score one for the underdog! All it takes is a little innovation. Games like Mount and Blade Warband have shown us how fun medieval combat could be, but of course everyone seems to want hot key cooldown tab target instead. Does anyone actually enjoy killing 10 mobs? I doubt it, but I bet a lot of people think they do. MMORPG's are like one big social experiment, and people have shown the researchers that they can be tricked into paying to do something boring. It's crazyiness!!!
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now! I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
As someone who has been gaming my whole life, and I am now 40 years old, I say this discussion is subjective. I'm sure some people are burned out, especially people who have been playing for 8 hours per day for years, but I also believe strongly that the genre has stagnated.
I've been playing FPS games since Quake 1 and prior (Wolfenstien, Doom, Descent ,etc). I've never grown tired of the FPS genre in all these years because it has continued to innovate. Some years it's the same, but the FPS makers know they need to continously move their technology forward in their games, or they will be in the bargain bin soon after shipping.
Recently, I started playing Tribes:Ascend, which is the spiritual successor to Tribes 2, and I am absolutely loving it. They have moved this old game forward, added unlocks, a cash shop and other cool things, and people are eating it up. I would buy more skins from their cash shop if they will hurry up and put some more in there. The game is an absolute joy to play, and requires much more skill than any of the other modern FPS games out there.
What I have seen in my time with MMO games, is that they have slowly been dumbed down. The games have been getting simpler, and people are getting bored. It's fine that WoW brough millions of 'casual' gamers to the market, but I believe it is a mistake to believe that these casual gamers are not going to evolve and want more depth in these games. Unfortunately, the refinements to the theme-park and story aspects of these games has meant removal of the virtual world aspects of them. We also haven't seen much innovation in how the world responds to us and that interaction, and AI in these games is pathetic. Many people who love PvP love it for the same reason I love playing FPS games; because AI doesn't come close to the wit and skill of a real player on the other end of the network.
At any rate, it's up to the individuals to decide how they see the genre, but from my view, MMO's really need to start making some new leaps. People evolve, and even casual players who make up the lion's share of the market are asking for more now. Remember, most of these new people never had the joy of playing the old hardcore games, or a good fun sandbox with a rich community. I don't believe those days are gone, and I feel there will be room for them again, only with the polish and refinement we have come to expect these days.
I also notice gamers seem to bash games simply because of the lack of innovation. This is what I just do not get. These are games, they are not designed to replace your life. They will all revolve around killing monsters, doing quests, PVP in some form or another - that's it... it will never get any better. The graphics will never replace the real world outside.
And why shouldn't I be dissatisfied that developers bring nothing unique, innovative and different to the gaming table? I am a customer, a gamer. It is the gamer's and the dollars they bring that are targeted. I would rather play a game then go to a movie, this is my choice of entertainment.
The basic concept of an MMORPG is not in question. But why does this concept have to follow along the same track as their predecessors? Why are we seeing the same focus on content in these highly marketed, big name games?
The problem is, big name developers have the resources to develop and market to the masses, to create and sell the hype and to cater to subscription numbers not depth of content. WoW is not to blame, it is a fine game in its own right and was different when it was first released in comparison to other online games at the that time. It implemented fresh and new ideas. So why now, when developers have all the more money to back these online projects, do we have regurgitated content and second hand ideas?
This is why I bash games based on lack of innovation. Not because my life revolves around MMO's but because I believe that they are capable of so much more.
Does anyone actually enjoy killing 10 mobs? I doubt it, but I bet a lot of people think they do. MMORPG's are like one big social experiment, and people have shown the researchers that they can be tricked into paying to do something boring. It's crazyiness!!!
Of course they do, as long as the combat is fun. Look at the huge success of D3. It is nothing but kill 10000000 mobs.
To answer the question posed in your thread title. Its bad MMOs.
I have been playing fighting games for over 20 years now, and I am not bored of that genre, but there are certainly new fighting games that I have tried that are crap and deserve my criticism. Games in other genres often get trashed by reviewers and players alike. Perhaps you should ask yourself, why do you think the MMO genre should be treated any different?
Why do you think we should have lower standards for MMOs and just eat up any crap that the developers wish to spoon feed us?
Do you honestly think that the MMOs released lately even come close to the quality of MMOs from over 6 years ago?
At the end of the day, its our money and we can spend it as we choose, and we are entitled to our opinions about what products are worth our money. If you are satisified with the sub-standard releases of late, then good for you. You can go spend your money on it and tell us that you think those games are awesome, but you have no right to tell us that our opinions are worth less than yours and that they are simply because we are jaded with the entire genre.
Most of the supposedly jaded players who are 'bored of the genre' are still happily playing older MMOs. We are just bored of the constant hype and let down of current releases.
Its up to the gaming companies to make us happy, its not our job to fool ourselves into believing that we are happy with a product that we dont feel is up to scratch.
Does anyone actually enjoy killing 10 mobs? I doubt it, but I bet a lot of people think they do.
Or maybe we do.
I like combat. I play for the combat. I hate crafting. I hate fishing. I do like pvp though.
But when I go through an elderscrolls game I love exploring and destroyign the monsters I find. Same wiht an mmo.
The problem with mmo's is that they sort of have thing ass backwards.
Instead of saying "go out and kill 10 of these" they should say "go to x fortress and find the y". As they go throuhg X fortress they ill inevitably kill 10 mobs looking for the y.
In one case you have a checlist of 10 mobs to kill. in the other case there is a greater purpose and in order to achieve that purpose you kill 10 mobs (or so).
I can assure you that I like combat both pvp and pve. I would rather explore and kill mobs over the whoel qeust hub thing.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The solution to being bored of doing something is to either do something else or take a nap. Unfortunately, more and more, when people get bored they go online and generate some kind of drama to relieve them of their boredom.
I think as players, our tastes have grown. Our desires and demands of the genre have become more refined. I don't think we're bored with the genre per say. But I think what we want, or at least, what "sells" us changes faster than the industry can keep up with.
The MMO industry as a whole is a growing, breathing, ever changing beast. Those changes come slowly. The games we receive today began development anywhere from 3 to 5 years ago.
The solution to being bored of doing something is to either do something else or take a nap. Unfortunately, more and more, when people get bored they go online and generate some kind of drama to relieve them of their boredom.
Which brings us to online forums.
The cure-all.
Man, I need a nap....................
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Which isn't to say that MMOGs aren't boring - most are. So is most TV, and so are most movies that come out. So is most music. Unfortunately, there are very few instances where truly innovative, creative talent teams up with high-quality production values and produces a product popular enough to survive.
Comments
There is no such thing as a bad game, only mediocre ones.
The strange thing is that people have the idea they deserve the absolute best one out there, and everything else isn't worth their time... even if it's free, and they have nothing better to do with their time in the first place.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
So can i put you on record as saying that "ET" for the Atari was not a bad game?
But to the point. Games are getting worse. I recently resubbed to vanguard for a bit, and you know what? Its a great game with lots of freedom, you can fill up your character slots with different characters and none will follow the same path to max level (unlike current MMO's which basically railroad you on a specific path limiting your freedom).
Actually Vanguard is a GREAT game. I will definately be playing that more once it goes F2P - not that i havent played it recently, i got my ranger up to lvl 42 or 43 or something like that just havent had time to re-install on my new computer yet. Huge game with so much content and really helpful people in game. Sad that people just do not seem to want quality, they seem to prefer new just for the sake of new even if older games are much more fun. I don't really understand that mentality. Many simply refuse to give a game a 2nd chance even... Vanguard has really become a great game since its many issues at launch.
THe problem is we see the games from one point of view, the game manufacturers/publishers see it from another......While we are looking for innovation and creativity, they are looking to make the most money possible...... The reason why so many are sticking with tried and true formulas is they are still working.......They aren't going to invest 100 million making a game if its unknown whether it will sell or not.
It's like dating baggage. They compare the new comer to girlfriends of the past especially to the one that is long gone. They want those old feelings back not understanding that it can never comeback.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
tl:dr It's bad games and bored gamers. MMOs lack the depth to keep players interested for months on end and it will take big changes to the genre to ever fix that.
To my mind, it's a problem of both bad games and bored gamers. At the risk of being branded a heretic, I believe that the "MMO concept"-- playing one game over the course of months/years/decades-- is already a great stretch at a time when new iterations of the same title come out every year or two. In the old days, devs could get away by creating immense grind and timesinks to keep people's progression slow enough that they'd have to play for months just to see everything. The opposite is true now and the systems that replaced it, quest-grinding and gear-treadmills, are showing themselves to be little better. Even GW2, which I hope lives up to the accolades it's getting now, hasn't necessarily solved the problem of what to do once you've played the game for three months, seen your share of dynamic quests, and taken/given a variety of lumps in the WvWvW PvP area.
The fact that MMOs don't have much in the way of strategic depth or emergent gameplay or true dynamism like, say, chess means that most gamers will play for a short while then move onto something fresh when the boredom starts to creep in. Beyond Skinner-box reward systems or back-and-forth PvP or new dungeons now and again, there's really not much more to see once you've spent a couple months in a game. As mentioned before, a large number of MMO vets are looking to recreate that initial moment of excitement when they first were introduced to the genre. Most of us tend to be nomadic, with the only ties to games being the relationships built up with friends/guildies or the feeling of time/effort invested in a particular game.
What's most damning, particularly here, is that some vets have a myopic view of the genre. Sure, they've seen everything, so there's very little that can wow them (pun not intended). For people just coming into the fold, however, *all* the games are new, all the experiences are fresh. The so-called WoW-clone that's easy to diss as derivative today will be someone's future Everquest or UO or Meridian in five or ten years. Though no doubt the older games did some things better, the reality is that the genre has moved on (and grown) by shedding many of the things they did poorly. The strong negativity shown towards any game that doesn't wear its gameplay pants and shirt backwards like Criss-Cross only makes vets (who may have a legit point) look all the more jaded and possessed of rose-colored glasses.
It's also tempting to say that the future is in sandboxes; after all, they have the potential to be more dynamic, offer more obvious chances to build up community, while recent themeparks have taken a real hit. However, I think it's more complex than that. MMOs will have to change to become more than fronts for F2P cash-shops in the future. It will likely take a re-envisioning of what these games are supposed to accomplish and how players are to stay connected and entertained to get there. It's more than a matter of building virtual worlds and watching gamers flood in. Until devs figure out how to build games that are both commercially-viable and continually fresh over a period of years, we're going to see new MMOs bashed and old MMO vets pining for that perfect game.
I like the gross generalization that people who don't like the current crop of MMO's are sitting in there house all day playing games for longer then they work, and need to get out more.
That you're not flaming, or insulting anyone, but simply generalizing.
And then pressume to know that they're obviously bored with the genre, and place the blame on them.
If you don't want to inult anyone, don't generlize your opinion or infer that anyone who doesn't like the a particular game must be sitting inside all day, with no life, and treating gaming like a job.
Because I read the entire thing and all I could think was how insulting it was.
And typically, when you have to apologize in advance or state that you're not trying to be insult anyone but, it means you're insulting someone. Even if it's not intentional, you obviously knew it, why write it way? I don't apologize, or insist I'm not doing something if I don't know or think I'm doing something.
I'm sorry sir, I'm not trying to steal your car but, peace! Really now.
And seriously, this " When I say "you" i just mean gamers in general, so please do not take offsense" is just so wrong.
Uhmm....
You're not talking about anyone specifically, just generalizing an entire group of people. That's not insulting at all!
Your post puts people into one of two catagories, because you chose to generalize everyone. The group that thinks like you, and then the grop that doesn't, who are obviously a bunch of losers who sit around and just play games all day. Of course you didn't say it specifically, but when you talk about "gamers in general" that's what happens.
Why not just tell us how you really feel? Oh wait, looks like you just did.
Just my observation is all.
There are two issues here.
The first is that some people can't distinguish between Personal Taste and Quality when it comes to games. Simply because you don't LIKE a game, doesn't mean that the game is BAD.
Take SW:TOR and WoW. I played both of these games for around a month each. I found that the way the games played just wasn't for me. There was something about them that rubbed me the wrong way. However, I recognize that they are both well-made games. WoW isn't a Bad Game, and Neither is SW:TOR. They just didn't work for me.
The second is that some people don't realize that a well made game can still be BAD in other very important ways.
Warhammer online is a great example. It was well made, but still just not a great game. Why? It really butchered its IP. Warhammer is a game about squads and groups. Not about individual combat. You have a number of different armies that fitght each other, its not a source of "Order vs Chaos". So the entire design of the game compromised what made warhammer the game that it is, and this turns off players.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
I don't really feel this way. I play games to unwind and have fun the same way I hang out with friends and have a drink or 2 sometimes. I'd hope most people were the same way. If they are playing games for OldManFunk's reasons I hope they seek some professional help.
My theme song.
/stand up
Hi, my name is WhiteLantern, and I'm bored with the genre.
I think I've finally come to terms with the issue and I'd like to move forward. The realization hit me when I looked at all of the games I'm waiting (not so) patiently for: Assassin's Creed 3, Bioshock Infinite, Borderlands 2, Dishonored, Lego Batman 2, Torchlight 2, X Com: Enemy Unknown. I really have no desire to play any of the upcoming MMO releases. I do still enjoy a few of the current crop, but not at the level I once did.
Admission is the first step, right?
/sit down
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
When i got bored of swimming,i stopped swimming at all,i didn't search for different swimming styles to keep me going.
Well..I do think it's a combination of both.
I played UO for 5 years since late 97/early 98. I've played other MMOs (never played WoW, EVE, few others) that lasted about 4 months if I'm lucky. I personally think it's the games on my part, but if you're someone who has played every MMO to man you're probably bored of the genre in general. I don't feel bored of it, I feel the genre kind of sucks now (waiting for GW2 so let's see).
I actually feel I have more time to game now that I'm older (29) because if you think about it. I personally don't go clubbing/bar hopping anymore, have a live in girlfriend with two damn dogs. I hang out with friends here and there, but I'm really not much of a drinker anymore (I lean towards cannabis).
Basically my schedule consists of wake up, work, come home, do whatever with the gf for a while, hop on PC play some games. It's pretty exciting..I know. I'm sure if I had kids that would be a different story. Not planning that for a while though.
1) There are plenty of good fun games to play (for example, Diablo 3).
2) I am NOT bored of them. If i were, i would not be playing them.
3) Yes, there are bad games/MMOs. You won't see me playing them though. I only play those i like .. is that so hard to grasp? People don't use entertainment products they do not like because ... they don't have to. There are always alternative entertainment.
If I was playing themeparks out now I would be bored to death.
But Im not. Having fun actually with the sandbox Im playing now, espectially because our guild is tight and the player content is very plentiful at this time.
MMORPG's are so bad right now that I am in no danger of becoming addicted to anything. In fact, I am spending far too much (mostly all) time in real life. I like some aspects of GW2 and see myself playing it casually as long as I have friends playing it. The triple A MMORPG genre though is just not fun anymore. There is no challenge, only time commitment. Hot key cooldown combat really isn't all that great though. It's just not exciting enough. It seems that most activities in MMORPG's are fairly meaningless and the games are designed so even a chimp would never "lose". I have no faith in the big developers but I am betting we will see some cool things from smaller developers and modders. The DayZ mod for Arma2 is a great example. The mod caused a nearly 3 year old rather buggy and unpopular game to suddenly start out selling CoD and BF3. Score one for the underdog! All it takes is a little innovation. Games like Mount and Blade Warband have shown us how fun medieval combat could be, but of course everyone seems to want hot key cooldown tab target instead. Does anyone actually enjoy killing 10 mobs? I doubt it, but I bet a lot of people think they do. MMORPG's are like one big social experiment, and people have shown the researchers that they can be tricked into paying to do something boring. It's crazyiness!!!
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
+
Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent
And why shouldn't I be dissatisfied that developers bring nothing unique, innovative and different to the gaming table? I am a customer, a gamer. It is the gamer's and the dollars they bring that are targeted. I would rather play a game then go to a movie, this is my choice of entertainment.
The basic concept of an MMORPG is not in question. But why does this concept have to follow along the same track as their predecessors? Why are we seeing the same focus on content in these highly marketed, big name games?
The problem is, big name developers have the resources to develop and market to the masses, to create and sell the hype and to cater to subscription numbers not depth of content. WoW is not to blame, it is a fine game in its own right and was different when it was first released in comparison to other online games at the that time. It implemented fresh and new ideas. So why now, when developers have all the more money to back these online projects, do we have regurgitated content and second hand ideas?
This is why I bash games based on lack of innovation. Not because my life revolves around MMO's but because I believe that they are capable of so much more.
Of course they do, as long as the combat is fun. Look at the huge success of D3. It is nothing but kill 10000000 mobs.
And i love that game.
Awesome job of generalising millions of players.
To answer the question posed in your thread title. Its bad MMOs.
I have been playing fighting games for over 20 years now, and I am not bored of that genre, but there are certainly new fighting games that I have tried that are crap and deserve my criticism. Games in other genres often get trashed by reviewers and players alike. Perhaps you should ask yourself, why do you think the MMO genre should be treated any different?
Why do you think we should have lower standards for MMOs and just eat up any crap that the developers wish to spoon feed us?
Do you honestly think that the MMOs released lately even come close to the quality of MMOs from over 6 years ago?
At the end of the day, its our money and we can spend it as we choose, and we are entitled to our opinions about what products are worth our money. If you are satisified with the sub-standard releases of late, then good for you. You can go spend your money on it and tell us that you think those games are awesome, but you have no right to tell us that our opinions are worth less than yours and that they are simply because we are jaded with the entire genre.
Most of the supposedly jaded players who are 'bored of the genre' are still happily playing older MMOs. We are just bored of the constant hype and let down of current releases.
Its up to the gaming companies to make us happy, its not our job to fool ourselves into believing that we are happy with a product that we dont feel is up to scratch.
Or maybe we do.
I like combat. I play for the combat. I hate crafting. I hate fishing. I do like pvp though.
But when I go through an elderscrolls game I love exploring and destroyign the monsters I find. Same wiht an mmo.
The problem with mmo's is that they sort of have thing ass backwards.
Instead of saying "go out and kill 10 of these" they should say "go to x fortress and find the y". As they go throuhg X fortress they ill inevitably kill 10 mobs looking for the y.
In one case you have a checlist of 10 mobs to kill. in the other case there is a greater purpose and in order to achieve that purpose you kill 10 mobs (or so).
I can assure you that I like combat both pvp and pve. I would rather explore and kill mobs over the whoel qeust hub thing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's not so much bad MMO's, it's just they are too much alike (standard theme parks a la WOW)
There are other ways to create MMO's (see EVE) however most modern MMO's follow a formula that I'm a bit tired of honestly.
So no, I'm not bored of the genre, MMO's have most definitely gotten stale and evolved (devolved?) in ways I don't care for.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The solution to being bored of doing something is to either do something else or take a nap. Unfortunately, more and more, when people get bored they go online and generate some kind of drama to relieve them of their boredom.
Which brings us to online forums.
I think as players, our tastes have grown. Our desires and demands of the genre have become more refined. I don't think we're bored with the genre per say. But I think what we want, or at least, what "sells" us changes faster than the industry can keep up with.
The MMO industry as a whole is a growing, breathing, ever changing beast. Those changes come slowly. The games we receive today began development anywhere from 3 to 5 years ago.
The cure-all.
Man, I need a nap....................
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Which isn't to say that MMOGs aren't boring - most are. So is most TV, and so are most movies that come out. So is most music. Unfortunately, there are very few instances where truly innovative, creative talent teams up with high-quality production values and produces a product popular enough to survive.