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TL2 is alot more diablo 2 then diablo 3 will ever be
Syphin_B
Member UncommonPosts: 340
So after playing TL2 until the end of the beta test and playing D3 too 60 and the first of act1 INF, i honestly feel like D3 left alot to be desired and that TL2 fufilled me more then D3 will ever and TL2 IS STILL IN BETA!
D3's lackluster item system really kills it for me, i get nothing but crappy blue drops from the bosses and rares that have int on in from rare/champ packs, its just seems that the items are boring and its all based on DPS and your main stat including Vit, i know i know..its a RNG treasure hunt game, but atleast when i was farming a specific boss in D2 i know what i was looking for and i had a reason and a drive too kill that boss. I dont like to see boss runs happen and i do like how the rare stuff has better things but i just dont get excited when i see items drop because its just all lackluster.
I just really think from my experiance so far that TL2 is going to do more for me then D3 ever will, i mean i cant even believe D3 released without a lobby system, and i feel the AH really kills the game .D3 becomes more of a "farm gold" game then kills mobs and hope for good drops game.
So for right now..im looking towards TL2 to be my hack n slash dungeon crawl savior, i havent had that much fun in awhile when i played the beta that weekend, it just oozes oldschool D2... everything from the skill trees too allocating your own skillpoints, which is another thing D3 failed to do.. LETS HOLD THEIR HANDS BECAUSE WE DONT WANT PEOPLE MESSING UP THEIR CHARACTERS! Meh.. its pitiful, it really is.. 12 years for a game that i feel like they went backwards instead of forwards.
Comments
/rant on
I feel like you do about the itemization in D3. Even with over 40% mf in normal (which in D2 was perfectly enough to get uniques and set items to drop) and having it get pumped up to 65% with the the mf shrine, I have not found a single legendary so far and the rares are usually lower level/have worse stats than the blues. I am starting to wonder if mf gear really makes that much of a difference. In comparison, I always left Act 1 Normal in D2 with a couple uniques, good rares, and set items whether I had mf or not.
It is getting to the point now where I don't look at the items in my pack until I am full up and have to go back to town to sell because I know the rares are going to be mainly junk anyway. The stats are also just boring. Have to wait until nightmare to start getting resistance stats? What on earth? Have to wait until hell to start getting +skills on items? Deeply frustrating. Have +int on barb gear? Uh, what??? Getting +barb skills on a withdoctor-only item? Uh, double what???
I do not mind if they get rid of boss runs and make farming more interesting by giving equal or good chances of nice things dropping from elites and mini-bosses. The endless boss runs in D2 got boring. However, the problem with D3 is the whole "nice things dropping" part: there just don't seem to be any.
And don't get me started on the gems. I really dislike how few we have at our disposal and that they are so much harder to use for gear customization.
One stash that is shared but has extremely limited space? Why??? Why no personal stash? I still will have to use mules at some point.
I am still enjoying the game but character customization, randomness of dungeons, and loot are the three pillars of a great dungeon crawl. There should also be reward for challenge (usually in the form of great gear). After my experiences in hell so far, I am not sure I can see the reward aspect of even attempting inferno. The character customization is pretty good in D3 and I think is its main strongpoint since you can't gimp your character and you can use one toon for a variety of builds. The randomness of dungeons is so-so, but terrible loot means that I don't see it having at the moment as much longetivity as D2 did for me even though it could, in theory, be the better game.
/rant off
I haven't beta'ed TL2, but if the items are anything like in TL1, I will be very happy indeed. TL1 has one of the better random loot generators I have ever used, and I like the fact that the items in any given set can vary so much between them. I also like the gambling and loved the extra dungeons, or the dungeons within dungeons that you get when you killed a phase animal. I like the droprates, I like having little magic find gear but still having the chance to have something nice drop. I liked the transmutation system that did not require gold and papers to use, and the enchanting system is awesome!
In fact, once TL2 releases, I am not sure how much I will be playing D3.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
Agree with everything you said...
Ain't it only natural? Most of the team behind D2 went to Torchlight
Blizzard has lost their edge (for some time now) and ppl are only slowly realizing it. The glory days of Blizzard have long since passed....
(having played through normal mode in D3 and played some hours of TL2 beta)
"Isn't a raid plundering villages in WoW or something like that?" - Robert Desable
Yeah i wish i could lose my edge and sell 6.5 million copies of a game lol The game is great...i tell ya the small percentage of people who dislike this game sure likes this website lol
Well... It's mostly the IP that sold the game, not the game itself. They also had a huge marketing campaign which most definitely helped...
But like I stated in my opinion they have lost their edge as D3 rlly is a step backward from D2. I do hope you realize this someday (explanation found in OP)
I should also note that initial sales mostly have no correlation with how great your game actually is.
"Isn't a raid plundering villages in WoW or something like that?" - Robert Desable
Agree soo much with the OP...
Not to mention, I will save $40...
Uhh... what?
Darkmax23 does have a point. I do not think that Blizz is losing its edge outside of perhaps SC2 which seemed to be the most controversial recent release they have had.
I remember feeling like D2 was a huge step down from D1 when I played it after release. In fact, it took me several months after release to sit down and finish the game because when I first loaded it up and tried it, it was buggy as all hell and seemed so unfun in comparison to D1. D3 seems better to me at release than D2 was.
I believe we need to give Blizz a little bit of time to really get the game into shape. Maybe it will take several patches for them to do it. I thought that D2 became decent only around patch 3. I hope Blizz will make D3 amazing with its very first patch. Changing the itemization and droprates would be a huge step in the right direction.
We could definitely gripe at Blizzard for not having released as polished as a game as possible given the long development time, but that was also true for D2. It is still the same old Blizz as always
I have played some really bad dungeon crawlers and D3 is not one of them.
Getting back to the topic: I can hardly wait for TL2. Though it doesn't feel completely Diabloish to me, I don't care! I like the Torchlight environment very much and its more "oldschool" style play. Plus, I can cure my modding itch with it.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
That's crazy. Couple of uniques, good rares and set items? Which version of D2 did you play? Super drop mod?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
For me TL2 is same boring h&s that D2 was (so it much closer to D2). I was bored after one day of playing - boring classes, skills (with skill tree - so you will use same skills all the time) TL2 is fun little game but is not worth 20$ for me. PoE is much better h&s than TL2, and different than D3 (70 hours of game play in both, 5 hours in TL2).
Nope, this was very consistent with just the normal game.
I always got 1-2 uniques and set items per act, even while solo. I don't know if this is still the case because I haven't played since patch 10. The rares and blues drop about the same rate as in D3. The set item drops were actually not that rare either.
The hardest things to find in D2 seemed to be certain runes.
By the way, I STILL haven't found a single legendary or set item in D3.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
Does TL2 have a Hardcore mode, because that was the reason I played D2 and that's the reason I play D3.
I can see people getting bored by softcore because there is no real challenge and all the items on the AH just get cheaper and cheaper, but in Hardcore mode the best items leave the game when players die, so finding decent items (even with the AH) past about level 30 is a real challenge.
It does yeah, Hardcore and 5 difficulty levels.
I think the fighting and the skills in D3 is pretty solid but they have messed up the overall game pretty bad imo. D3 aint about item hunting its more about gold farming and buy items. This remove an important core feature from diablo games.
You can not get gear from inf act1 to enter act2, you can get gear in act1 to put it into farm mode but not advance. For that you need to either cheat the system to win or buy ah gear. I never playd range but some say they can advance with low lvl items if this is true or not i do not know, all i know is that you need to get very good gear to enter a melee in act2.
Im stil playing D3 but its commming to an end in the near future i feel.
I would be better off playing Tl or Titan quest.
The thing I hated most in old diablos was the skillpoint system and how it locks you into a predefined path how to create your character unless you want to gimp it. It absolutely kills any choise in gameplay after you have decided on a build. I feel diablo 3 is better than the old games just for the skill system that allows you room for experimentation and actually encourages you to try a different method and strategy on hard elite packs and rares.
I wouldnt mind skillpoint system with a respeccing option, I might even like it more if done right, can you reset and re-spend your points in TL2? Option to save different builds and change between them? How about the physics, one thing I absolutely love in D3, and what makes the fights fun is stuff flying around and breaking into million bits when the havoc start. Anything like that in TL2? I'm looking forward to TL2 just been too busy with D3 to look into it more.
From what i've read, D3 MF is different than D2 MF. The more magic find you get in D3, the more blue+ items drop for you. It does not affect the quality of the items dropped.
On the other hand, i find D3 great but i agree that they somehow screwed the itemisation, and that's critical in a loot-centric game. Almost totally random stats is not a good approach. Also, the DPS of the weapon is way way too important, if the DPS is bad, you throw the weapon away, regardless of the stats/mods on it.
However, the thing which i totally dislike is that getting what it's supposed to be "good" loot doesnt give me the feeling which D2 gave me when i identified an unique. I understand that legendaries arent supposed to be "the best" items but i expect them to be very very good. From the 6 legendaries which dropped for me, i've saved only one. Also, why not have set items which are not top quality, like those which dropped in normal D2, i don't get this. Also, unfortunately, it's way more efficient to farm gold and buy stuff than to farm stuff. Blizzard did not understand that we, Diablo fans, loved to actually have the loot drop for us. A loot-centric game with badly designed loot leaves a bad taste, even for some of the biggest fans.
I played D2 for 5 1/2 years, i really love D3 a lot but yeah the itemization is way bad.
I dont mind not getting set items and uniques and all that right away but ive got around 80 hours played now and have had 1 single legendary drop and it wasnt even an upgrade. lol While running around with 86% magic find. Yeah, lame.
People are right in saying the loot in D2 was far better and felt more rewarding.
I hope D3 see's some patches or hotfixes to crank it up.
As far as TL2 being more D2 than D3 i dont really care because D3 is a damn good game and mostly an all around upgrade from D2. Just really need that itemization fixed up.
I would like to see chat lobbies in it tho like there was in D2. And the weapon swap, what happened to that?
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Dumbing down games seems to have become Blizzards core design philosophy and hence why I am not buying their games anymore, so it is not like it was not expected. TL2 seems fine but has an indy feel to it, in the sense that the GFX look cheap and the content not all that great.
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I'm still playing D3 and having fun with it. It's my first Diablo game, so I don't know about the D2 perspective. However, the itemization does suck. I don't look at items either. I just disenchant them in case I do blacksmithing later (but it looks pointless right now).
It may be that itemization sucks because Blizz wants us to use the currency auction house (when it launches) to get good stuff, so they can get their extra cut. You know that's where the best stuff is going to wind up.
No, it really isn't.
At all.
So bad drops.
BUT an real money auction house for which Blizzard gets a cut for every sale. hmmmmmmmm.
What did they dumb down? the skill system? D3s System offers a wider range of specializations and the games inferno mode makes D2 look like a childrens game.
What makes it so dumbed down? The removal of the cube? Crafting is an evolution of that. The addition of an AH? its an evolution of what we considered trading in D2.
Diablo 3 is a vastly superior game in all areas. I've yet to see one case be made for this so called dumbing down. When you remove an archaic skill tree system for a system that offer infinit specializations on the fly i dont consider that dumbing down but a true evolution.
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you know what's the funny part?
been playing diablo 3, pony level, and all i could think was "damn, this STILL looks better than tw2!"
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
"Isn't a raid plundering villages in WoW or something like that?" - Robert Desable
"TL2 is alot more diablo 2 then diablo 3 will ever be"
That would most likley be because the producers of TL2 need to cash in on the small but vocal group that are dead set in that D2 is the only way to go, while Blizzard have stated several times that they always try to move foreward and not get blinded by nostalgia.
So if it is like you say OP i think they have done what they set out to do.. both of them.
This have been a good conversation
I dunno how you managed to find six legendaries. I still haven't found any. I have found several good rares, that is it, and a bunch of really bad ones.
I really dunno what to say though with respect to Blizzard not understanding about half of the attraction being the loot. If they did not get a hunch from all of the people who have played or are still playing D2, then someone messed up big time in their research department!
My question is whether they will change the itemization, fix the bugs, and up drop rates? I know a lot of people believe that the latter is tied to the RMAH, when it releases, but if legendaries stay super rare, maybe people will not really sell the good ones on at all. I know that if the current droprates stay in the game and I found a good legendary, I would keep hold onto it even if it is class specific and couldn't be used by my current main.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
ok so i have to say as for me, I did NEVER wanted D3 to be a D2 other wise i would jjsut play D2
.
As for TL i like how the game looks it's intersting, but for me i think D3 is more for me.
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