Originally posted by ZaltarkI saw this science documentary that says one of the precursors to a civilization collapse is an increase in violence (think gladiators)
Historians still continue to argue as to the main reason for the collapse of the Roman Empire, but violence itself is not one of the top contenders.
First, attack the lack of data points. That's usually sufficient rhetorical ammo to reduce it to absurdity...but if necessary, you can tackle the weakness of correlations between the United States and the Empire of Rome.
Actually the science show said that loss of oil (as in we ran out) was the cause of the collapse. But an increase in violence is a sign that civilization is needing more than is being provided. The science guy said that people usually fight to fulfil basic desires (food/shelter/clothing). With the market in a semi-crashed period and massive ammounts of unemployment. Its no wonder the world is becoming more violent.
IS it though? Or do you just percieve it to be?
I havn't heard about any massive racial clensings recently... yet Zaire had PLENTY when I was growing up.
We had a lot of violence in WW2... America didn't end...
We've been saying the oil will run out for almost a hundred years now... Lets hope by the time it actually does we finally have a solution.
As for violence? People are people, we've always been violent, we always will be. Lets start looking at history, ALL of it, and stop trying to draw lines of association that simply are not there.
I'd be interested to see evidence. Interesting surmise, coming from someone who seems to be interested in history.
Man, I must be tired. "interesting" three times in two sentences. Never mind :P
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
You would have to know my father, the man he is, the respect he commands, the connections he holds, to really understand just how scary what he gave us, and what he told us really is.
I often think that the "global control" conspiracy theories are like an alternative religion, because they "prove" that nothing in the world happens randomly. It may be an evil masterplan, but at least it IS a plan.
I saw this science documentary that says one of the precursors to a civilization collapse is an increase in violence (think gladiators)
Gladiators are a horrible example, it is a tradition passed down to the romans from the Etruscans who used them as funerary games and they happened across the entire time line of Etruscan civilization, the Romans had Gladiators right up until the end, they were actually outlawed at various times by Hadrian or Trajan at one point, can't remember which, and were officially outlawed permenantly after the Christianization of the empire, Rome fell as a christian state, not in her pagan prime.
Violence isn't a precursor to a societies fall, a societies ability to project violent power often corresponded with how long that society lasted, this was especially true back in the day.
Video games are violent, that's how we like them, no one is clamoring for world of bake sales, or fluffy kitty cats age etc.
You would have to know my father, the man he is, the respect he commands, the connections he holds, to really understand just how scary what he gave us, and what he told us really is.
I often think that the "global control" conspiracy theories are like an alternative religion, because they "prove" that nothing in the world happens randomly. It may be an evil masterplan, but at least it IS a plan.
Deep thoughts...
The need for humans to have a belief that there is someone who knows what the hell is going on is a strong need.
I didnt watch it for history. I was just curious as to how they thought the world would end. I like post apocalyptic stuff. Again Im no scientist and havent researched it. Maybe mankind has always been violent in the past(like the Mayans were really violent) but most of the espcially violent ones tend to kill themselves. I just agreed with the science show that said similar things were happening.
I saw this science documentary that says one of the precursors to a civilization collapse is an increase in violence (think gladiators)
Gladiators are a horrible example, it is a tradition passed down to the romans from the Etruscans who used them as funerary games and they happened across the entire time line of Etruscan civilization, the Romans had Gladiators right up until the end, they were actually outlawed at various times by Hadrian or Trajan at one point, can't remember which, and were officially outlawed permenantly after the Christianization of the empire, Rome fell as a christian state, not in her pagan prime.
Violence isn't a precursor to a societies fall, a societies ability to project violent power often corresponded with how long that society lasted, this was especially true back in the day.
Video games are violent, that's how we like them, no one is clamoring for world of bake sales, or fluffy kitty cats age etc.
There's a strange correlation between the "quality" of a game and the amount of violence, blood, and gore in that game. Of course, we all know that graphic violence doesn't make a good game. But for some reason people look for graphic violence as an indicator of the game's quality.
I'm not sure why it happens like this, but somehow a game with extreme graphic violence turns more heads than a game with little graphic violence at all.
Maybe casual gamers assume that a game with more graphic violence means the game is for a more mature crowd?
I am not bothered by it because it isn't real, It's a game. I've played many vioent games in my life and managed to get through it without becoming an axe murderer. If you don't like violent games, don't buy them. Leave the rest of us to enjoy them.
I didnt watch it for history. I was just curious as to how they thought the world would end. I like post apocalyptic stuff. Again Im no scientist and havent researched it. Maybe mankind has always been violent in the past(like the Mayans were really violent) but most of the espcially violent ones tend to kill themselves. I just agreed with the science show that said similar things were happening.
It was bad science then based on unicorns floating on fluffy clouds, and examination of history, something you'd have to do to undertake a survey like that, would indicate that the entire premise was flawed. A state's military prowess often is in direct correlation with how long it lasted, Rome, Assyria, The Perisian Empire, the various Greek speaking empires all fell when they became worse at the projection of force(read violence)
I just got finished reading about a man in Berlin chopping his potentially pregnant wife up in front of his kids and tossing her body parts over the balcony at neighbors in the name of religion.
Who cares about video game violence? Priorities.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Between the FPS's and GoW trailers.. yea... this year looks... what's the opposite of awesome? ... I dunno. I'm left feeling very meh after this E3. None of the games I wanted to see were there. It's a shame. Because even some GOOD games that are there are getting no air time because of these dumb FPS's. ULTRA-UBER-Future-Warfare-2099 and COD532. I will say I'm hyped for AC3 but that's about it. Even the entire Nintendo conference left me feeling bleh. Wii-u? No thanks.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Maybe we just miss the excitement of going down to the market square to watch a good public hanging or disemboweling ?
Western society has become a lot more civilised in the last few hundred years. But a few hundred years is the blink of an eye in human evolutionary terms.
I just got finished reading about a man in Berlin chopping his potentially pregnant wife up in front of his kids and tossing her body parts over the balcony at neighbors in the name of religion.
But instead fake violence in video games is a huge deal. Gotta love all the conspiracy theorists and nutters correlating video game violence with the downfall of our civilization and other nonsense. We humans have always been violent. We've done things to eachother over the centuries that most of these game devs couldnt even dream up to put into a game. We've had violence in our entertainment throughout justa bout every civilization wether it be in art, music, books, plays, and now movies and video games. Civilizations have come and gone, violent entertainment had nothing to do with it.
Violence is intentional to condition us to be accepting of a violent outcome of agendas. Which is why games like Deus Ex reward you for NOT killing people, in fact I know a lot of games that you get MORE points for LESS killing.
It is fact that the world population is rapidly racing towards its own critical mass, when there will be more people than our world can ever hope to support. Which we've been saying for 60 years.
If there is hope for humanity to survive its own ignorance and self destructive nature, there will need to be drastic reductions in world populations. Good thing China has a 2 child per couple restriction, rest of the world should follow suit.
Some may think me paranoid or crazy, but it truly is this harsh, and the scary part is the people with the power, the control, the money they know this, and have known it for at least 30 years. They have prepared, they have made plans, they have instituted agendas on a pre-determined time line Yep, you generally preface things that sound insane by saying "you might think I'm crazy but" it still sounds insane.
My father is a top executive of a major power conglomerate, and four years ago at a family christmas he pulled all of us kids around the table, he got very serious and he handed each of us a package, personal escape packages. He insisted we all get and keep updated passports, for ourselves and our kids. He insists it is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when. Annnd this sounds like a movie.
You would have to know my father, the man he is, the respect he commands, the connections he holds, to really understand just how scary what he gave us, and what he told us really is. And again EVERYONE can make claims but in reality this just makes you look paranoid... I mean honestly... My parents have a cabin in the middle of NOWHERE, fully stocked with food for years of living off the grid if needed, guess what? I don't go around telling everyone the world is going to end and you should stock up on ways to save your own ass, that would make me sound insane....
Being the Laughing Man I would have figured corprate/global conspiracy to be your cup of tea.
Maybe we just miss the excitement of going down to the market square to watch a good public hanging or disemboweling ?
Western society has become a lot more civilised in the last few hundred years. But a few hundred years is the blink of an eye in human evolutionary terms.
We are still exactly the same species we were 250,000 years ago genetically speaking, we've built societies with rules that evolve, but that's about it.
My personal belief is that we're no longer biologically evolving because, and I am not saying this is a bad thing, the weak and disadvantaged have no problem reproducing, and thus continuing those less than desirable evolutionary traits that may have been bred out over time back when it was truly survival of the fittest.
i was actually shocked by the scene in the last of us when he shoots the guy in the face with a shotgun at the end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqBdk4V_C-s skip to 7 minutes 23 seconds in
Almost, almost. Opened the video but saw the 3 right on time. Well played
what are you on about it's a youtube video.
? Not sure if confused or really good troll
i don't even know what you're on about, its a youtube link..did your diablo 3 account just get hacked and now you're mega paranoid? there is no 3 in that link.
I just got finished reading about a man in Berlin chopping his potentially pregnant wife up in front of his kids and tossing her body parts over the balcony at neighbors in the name of religion.
Who cares about video game violence? Priorities.
It's not about video game violence, its about how society is more accepting of violence than sex.
I personally can't wait for "Last of us" and "Watch Dogs" Those both look simply amazing.
My picks as well. Nothing else really interests me so far.
Same here, great stuff.
Does the violence make me feel uneasy? Yes. But that's one of the reasons why I like those 2 games, actually. I WANT violence to bother me in games like that - in a smart way.
I didn't like Max Payne 3 much because of that. It was supposed to be a noir story, but the action/violence felt more like an endless hollywood flick - very violent most of the time, but rarely violent enough to be a real turn off. That started to make kinda angry after a while. Not my cup of tea at all (besides, the story wasn't even that good)
people only start caring when its women or children being killed in video games. Heck they tried to ban resident evil because too many black people were being killed,
I just got finished reading about a man in Berlin chopping his potentially pregnant wife up in front of his kids and tossing her body parts over the balcony at neighbors in the name of religion.
But instead fake violence in video games is a huge deal. Gotta love all the conspiracy theorists and nutters correlating video game violence with the downfall of our civilization and other nonsense. We humans have always been violent. We've done things to eachother over the centuries that most of these game devs couldnt even dream up to put into a game. We've had violence in our entertainment throughout justa bout every civilization wether it be in art, music, books, plays, and now movies and video games. Civilizations have come and gone, violent entertainment had nothing to do with it.
That's something completely different, tho.
Insane people will sometimes do insane things. And those zombie-attacks are afaik drug-related. Neither has much to do with society as a whole - unlike the general acceptence of violence (especially when comparaed to the acceptance of sex).
all i got out of E3 was a bunch of rehash of the same bull**** that looked exactly the same as the previous games. no innovation nothing new except maybe a COUPLE titles. Oh and a bunch of BS peripherals that nobody wanted.
another halo game that will play like the last 3 except with enchance graphics. another COD game with shinier new graphics, God of War - same gameplay new graphics. really is this what gaming has become? same game, same gameplay just upgraded graphics and we are happy?
and jesus i remember back in my day when you bought a gaming console so you could play games on it, not connect to your Ipad or sync with your smart phone or listen to music or watch your favorite movie ... or for F sake read a book to you. I don't give a crap about that stuff just give me good games.
people only start caring when its women or children being killed in video games. Heck they tried to ban resident evil because too many black people were being killed,
TED KOPPEL Just answer me this, Tweek: What do you see as "positive" about toddler murder?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Comments
IS it though? Or do you just percieve it to be?
I havn't heard about any massive racial clensings recently... yet Zaire had PLENTY when I was growing up.
We had a lot of violence in WW2... America didn't end...
We've been saying the oil will run out for almost a hundred years now... Lets hope by the time it actually does we finally have a solution.
As for violence? People are people, we've always been violent, we always will be. Lets start looking at history, ALL of it, and stop trying to draw lines of association that simply are not there.
I'd be interested to see evidence. Interesting surmise, coming from someone who seems to be interested in history.
Man, I must be tired. "interesting" three times in two sentences. Never mind :P
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I often think that the "global control" conspiracy theories are like an alternative religion, because they "prove" that nothing in the world happens randomly. It may be an evil masterplan, but at least it IS a plan.
Gladiators are a horrible example, it is a tradition passed down to the romans from the Etruscans who used them as funerary games and they happened across the entire time line of Etruscan civilization, the Romans had Gladiators right up until the end, they were actually outlawed at various times by Hadrian or Trajan at one point, can't remember which, and were officially outlawed permenantly after the Christianization of the empire, Rome fell as a christian state, not in her pagan prime.
Violence isn't a precursor to a societies fall, a societies ability to project violent power often corresponded with how long that society lasted, this was especially true back in the day.
Video games are violent, that's how we like them, no one is clamoring for world of bake sales, or fluffy kitty cats age etc.
Deep thoughts...
The need for humans to have a belief that there is someone who knows what the hell is going on is a strong need.
I didnt watch it for history. I was just curious as to how they thought the world would end. I like post apocalyptic stuff. Again Im no scientist and havent researched it. Maybe mankind has always been violent in the past(like the Mayans were really violent) but most of the espcially violent ones tend to kill themselves. I just agreed with the science show that said similar things were happening.
QFT, Rome fell when it was its most peaceful.
Ironic.
There's a strange correlation between the "quality" of a game and the amount of violence, blood, and gore in that game. Of course, we all know that graphic violence doesn't make a good game. But for some reason people look for graphic violence as an indicator of the game's quality.
I'm not sure why it happens like this, but somehow a game with extreme graphic violence turns more heads than a game with little graphic violence at all.
Maybe casual gamers assume that a game with more graphic violence means the game is for a more mature crowd?
I am not bothered by it because it isn't real, It's a game. I've played many vioent games in my life and managed to get through it without becoming an axe murderer. If you don't like violent games, don't buy them. Leave the rest of us to enjoy them.
Archlinux ftw
It was bad science then based on unicorns floating on fluffy clouds, and examination of history, something you'd have to do to undertake a survey like that, would indicate that the entire premise was flawed. A state's military prowess often is in direct correlation with how long it lasted, Rome, Assyria, The Perisian Empire, the various Greek speaking empires all fell when they became worse at the projection of force(read violence)
I just got finished reading about a man in Berlin chopping his potentially pregnant wife up in front of his kids and tossing her body parts over the balcony at neighbors in the name of religion.
Who cares about video game violence? Priorities.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Opposite of Awesome...how about Emosewa.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Maybe we just miss the excitement of going down to the market square to watch a good public hanging or disemboweling ?
Western society has become a lot more civilised in the last few hundred years. But a few hundred years is the blink of an eye in human evolutionary terms.
That's whats so amusing about threads like this. Theres also stuff recently like some guy having his face eaten off by another person in Miami: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/news_archives/miami-zombie-face-eating-attack-victim-ronald-poppo-has-long-road-ahead-of-him-physician-says
But instead fake violence in video games is a huge deal. Gotta love all the conspiracy theorists and nutters correlating video game violence with the downfall of our civilization and other nonsense. We humans have always been violent. We've done things to eachother over the centuries that most of these game devs couldnt even dream up to put into a game. We've had violence in our entertainment throughout justa bout every civilization wether it be in art, music, books, plays, and now movies and video games. Civilizations have come and gone, violent entertainment had nothing to do with it.
Being the Laughing Man I would have figured corprate/global conspiracy to be your cup of tea.
My theme song.
We are still exactly the same species we were 250,000 years ago genetically speaking, we've built societies with rules that evolve, but that's about it.
My personal belief is that we're no longer biologically evolving because, and I am not saying this is a bad thing, the weak and disadvantaged have no problem reproducing, and thus continuing those less than desirable evolutionary traits that may have been bred out over time back when it was truly survival of the fittest.
i don't even know what you're on about, its a youtube link..did your diablo 3 account just get hacked and now you're mega paranoid? there is no 3 in that link.
It's not about video game violence, its about how society is more accepting of violence than sex.
If this would bother me I wouldn't usually play games (where over 90% of them are violent in some shape or form).
Thus I don't get the point of this whole thread.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
Same here, great stuff.
Does the violence make me feel uneasy? Yes. But that's one of the reasons why I like those 2 games, actually. I WANT violence to bother me in games like that - in a smart way.
I didn't like Max Payne 3 much because of that. It was supposed to be a noir story, but the action/violence felt more like an endless hollywood flick - very violent most of the time, but rarely violent enough to be a real turn off. That started to make kinda angry after a while. Not my cup of tea at all (besides, the story wasn't even that good)
Hype train -> Reality
people only start caring when its women or children being killed in video games. Heck they tried to ban resident evil because too many black people were being killed,
That's something completely different, tho.
Insane people will sometimes do insane things. And those zombie-attacks are afaik drug-related. Neither has much to do with society as a whole - unlike the general acceptence of violence (especially when comparaed to the acceptance of sex).
Hype train -> Reality
Devs are all on bath salts!
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
all i got out of E3 was a bunch of rehash of the same bull**** that looked exactly the same as the previous games. no innovation nothing new except maybe a COUPLE titles. Oh and a bunch of BS peripherals that nobody wanted.
another halo game that will play like the last 3 except with enchance graphics. another COD game with shinier new graphics, God of War - same gameplay new graphics. really is this what gaming has become? same game, same gameplay just upgraded graphics and we are happy?
and jesus i remember back in my day when you bought a gaming console so you could play games on it, not connect to your Ipad or sync with your smart phone or listen to music or watch your favorite movie ... or for F sake read a book to you. I don't give a crap about that stuff just give me good games.
TED KOPPEL
Just answer me this, Tweek: What do
you see as "positive" about toddler
murder?
TWEEK
Ahah. U-uh. It's easy?
TED KOPPEL
Yes... It is easy.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"