Can we all at least agree on one thing: Race-locked factions are terrible for ESO!

jiveturkey12

I mean everyone on each side of the ESO discussion has something to lose. The Hardcore ES fans lose continuity lore wise and are given a major restriction that was never present in any other ES game... And the theme-park crowd are just given a major balance problem long term when everyone joins the faction with dark elves and nord in it. I mean whose going to want to be on the khajit-high elf-wood elf faction? It just seems a little weak compared to the others. Plus wouldn't you all love to see each race able to fight along side each other? Surely it would look a lot more badass than being limited content wise to only fighting with two other races per faction.

Anyone else in the same boat as me with this? That both sides have something to lose by there being such a rediculous restriction like they've presented.

Nilden

I wish they would just say hey pick any race and any faction. If they do have race locked factions at character creation I hope they at least put in a crazy quest to join another faction.

Hell why not just go all Shadowbane and have guilds become factions that build Cities and hou- oh wait those are too hard.

So this is what we get...

• The Ebonheart Pact consists of Nords, Dunmer, and Argonians from the Northern and Eastern regions.
• The Aldmeri Dominion consists of Altmer, Bosmer, and Khajiit from the South and South West regions.
• The Daggerfall Covenant consists of Bretons, Redguards, and Orcs from the North West regions.

 

Chrisbox

Well I mean you can still play whichever race you want, it will just determine faction.  Hopefully passives and such will be balanced across all of them.

pmaura

agree completly the idea goes against the entire series it was always about choosing any race and any faction and screwing them over at any time.

Moaky07

They need to try to balance the 3 factions. Giving each a kick ass race insures the population will be spread.

chefdiablo

I can overlook the overall layout of the factions and race limitations if the combat and the pvp do not take away from the game.

 

I do not want to see another combat system that is based more on C.C. spam, root and knockback mechanics. This should be sword and board, range, staff and magic, dagger. If I see every class with stuns and multiple versions with goofy tree based progression. My money will be saved or spent elsewhere.

On top of that, I want to pvp for a purpose. Territory control is a purpose. Keeping enemies out of my territory is a purpose. I do not enjoy logging into War Zones or Battlegrounds where the same boring strategies are employed with small groups of 3 on 3, 5 on 5, or 8 on 8 battles take place. I do not enjoy time limits and afk pvp farmers. I do not want to lose in war zones because people quit thirty seconds after entering and have decided its too hard to fight back.

If TESO tries to maintain their pvp with this type of model I will save my money. This is not the type of thing I am looking for. Other games have teased me with promisses of large scale and deep pvp and have failed.

I do not want to walk out side my main city and get farmed by open world gankers either mind you, but I can at least live with that in my games. Leveling and watching my back is part of the fun. Risk vs reward. In this scenario I can always go somewhere else, fight back, or just do something else.

Moaky07

Originally posted by chefdiablo

I can overlook the overall layout of the factions and race limitations if the combat and the pvp do not take away from the game.

 

I do not want to see another combat system that is based more on C.C. spam, root and knockback mechanics. This should be sword and board, range, staff and magic, dagger. If I see every class with stuns and multiple versions with goofy tree based progression. My money will be saved or spent elsewhere.

On top of that, I want to pvp for a purpose. Territory control is a purpose. Keeping enemies out of my territory is a purpose. I do not enjoy logging into War Zones or Battlegrounds where the same boring strategies are employed with small groups of 3 on 3, 5 on 5, or 8 on 8 battles take place. I do not enjoy time limits and afk pvp farmers. I do not want to lose in war zones because people quit thirty seconds after entering and have decided its too hard to fight back.

If TESO tries to maintain their pvp with this type of model I will save my money. This is not the type of thing I am looking for. Other games have teased me with promisses of large scale and deep pvp and have failed.

I do not want to walk out side my main city and get farmed by open world gankers either mind you, but I can at least live with that in my games. Leveling and watching my back is part of the fun. Risk vs reward. In this scenario I can always go somewhere else, fight back, or just do something else.

I seriously doubt they make the entire game world PVP.

PyrateLV

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by chefdiablo

I can overlook the overall layout of the factions and race limitations if the combat and the pvp do not take away from the game.

 

I do not want to see another combat system that is based more on C.C. spam, root and knockback mechanics. This should be sword and board, range, staff and magic, dagger. If I see every class with stuns and multiple versions with goofy tree based progression. My money will be saved or spent elsewhere.

On top of that, I want to pvp for a purpose. Territory control is a purpose. Keeping enemies out of my territory is a purpose. I do not enjoy logging into War Zones or Battlegrounds where the same boring strategies are employed with small groups of 3 on 3, 5 on 5, or 8 on 8 battles take place. I do not enjoy time limits and afk pvp farmers. I do not want to lose in war zones because people quit thirty seconds after entering and have decided its too hard to fight back.

If TESO tries to maintain their pvp with this type of model I will save my money. This is not the type of thing I am looking for. Other games have teased me with promisses of large scale and deep pvp and have failed.

I do not want to walk out side my main city and get farmed by open world gankers either mind you, but I can at least live with that in my games. Leveling and watching my back is part of the fun. Risk vs reward. In this scenario I can always go somewhere else, fight back, or just do something else.

I seriously doubt they make the entire game world PVP.

No. World PvP wouldnt be a good idea as I believe it would just turn into a Darkfall gankfest.

Keeping PvP isolated to a specific contested area I believe is a better way to go.

 

However, by problem with the Race/Faction lock idea is, what if I want to play a Redguard, but fight for a different faction?

I cant because of my Race. To me thats like WWII and Im Japanese or German, but I cant fight for the Americans because my RACE is the perpetual enemy.

Seems kinda..well..racist

 

The other issue I have is, what if I want to play a Khajiit and just be an Adverturer with no side?

What if I dont care about the freaking War and I just want to travel Tamriel finding the cool "open world" quests? Can I? Probably not. I can only do the quests in my Faction/Race specific lands.

What if I want to explore all the cool "open world" dungeons? Can I? Again, unlikely. I can only explore the dungeons in my Faction/Race specific lands.

 

Why does a 3 way War have to happen anyway? Why must the Devs force a conflict between ALL players? Why cant they just have a large contested landmass and allow players to join up together with whoever they want and fight for whatever reason they wish? Or not fight at all if they so choose?

 

UWNVME

Originally posted by Chrisbox

Well I mean you can still play whichever race you want, it will just determine faction.  Hopefully passives and such will be balanced across all of them.

But what if I want to play with a friend whose favorite race is on another faction? That's already a huge bummer.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by UWNVME

Originally posted by Chrisbox

Well I mean you can still play whichever race you want, it will just determine faction.  Hopefully passives and such will be balanced across all of them.

But what if I want to play with a friend whose favorite race is on another faction? That's already a huge bummer.

yeah I fail to see how any one can view  a 3 faction system as anything other than MORE restrictive than if there was no faction at all.

Bizzare.

Entinerint

We agree, in terms of The Elder Scrolls, it is a terrible and moronic design decision.

ShakyMo

The best way would have been to have 3 different imperial factions. When you start you are neutral. Once you go cyrodil, you join one of those 3 armies for life. That way people can join their friends playing a different races side, we don't get a frankly weird argonian / dark elf alliance. And we don't get the problems with gvg, especially what we get in Europe with people joining real nationan based huge zerg guilds.

ShakyMo

The other problem with gvg setups, locks out new players and game levels out / stagnates

cooper85

race lock is good. It's a plus.

Sovrath

Originally posted by PyrateLV

 

I cant because of my Race. To me thats like WWII and Im Japanese or German, but I cant fight for the Americans because my RACE is the perpetual enemy.

Seems kinda..well..racist

 

The idea is to give an identity and flavor for each faction. So, going a bit geeky, the romulans fought against the federation and the Klingons did as well. It wasn't the Romulans and some humans and some Vulcans fighting against the federation or the Klingons evenly mixed with whatever other races that were there.

I actually prefer race locked factions. There I said it. If not race locked factoins then open world pvp with guilds being their own faction.

Remember, race is more than a look. Gamers seem to forget that because in the end what they want is what they think is "cool". But race is a set of beliefs, it's a culture, a way of doing things, a philosophy. Having specific races uniting for a side is a very powerful concept because it then becomes different cultures that are fighting for the same things, even if they don't always seem eye to eye.

Not having race locked factions means that the factions themselves need to be of entirely different philosophical ideas. But that doesn't get conveyed in a game where players are just joing a faction because their friends are there. If a faction is supposed to be stoic and non warring and they are fighting against a faction of psychopaths, that doesn't get portrayed as players will most likely not be role playing these things.

That leaves race and then the lore of each race fills in the gaps and provides a oohesive whole as to why each faction is what it is.

Otherwise it just becomes a mixed (excuse the term) cluster fuck of nonsense. Might as well go ffa pvp at that point because at least each guild will have a driving philosphy based on its members that doesn't need to be steeped in lore.

waynejr2

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by PyrateLV

 

I cant because of my Race. To me thats like WWII and Im Japanese or German, but I cant fight for the Americans because my RACE is the perpetual enemy.

Seems kinda..well..racist

 

The idea is to give an identity and flavor for each faction. So, going a bit geeky, the romulans fought against the federation and the Klingons did as well. It wasn't the Romulans and some humans and some Vulcans fighting against the federation or the Klingons evenly mixed with whatever other races that were there.

I actually prefer race locked factions. There I said it. If not race locked factoins then open world pvp with guilds being their own faction.

Remember, race is more than a look. Gamers seem to forget that because in the end what they want is what they think is "cool". But race is a set of beliefs, it's a culture, a way of doing things, a philosophy. Having specific races uniting for a side is a very powerful concept because it then becomes different cultures that are fighting for the same things, even if they don't always seem eye to eye.

Not having race locked factions means that the factions themselves need to be of entirely different philosophical ideas. But that doesn't get conveyed in a game where players are just joing a faction because their friends are there. If a faction is supposed to be stoic and non warring and they are fighting against a faction of psychopaths, that doesn't get portrayed as players will most likely not be role playing these things.

That leaves race and then the lore of each race fills in the gaps and provides a oohesive whole as to why each faction is what it is.

Otherwise it just becomes a mixed (excuse the term) cluster fuck of nonsense. Might as well go ffa pvp at that point because at least each guild will have a driving philosphy based on its members that doesn't need to be steeped in lore.

Very well stated.   For me, it gives a virtual world a flavor that everyone running around doing everything they want doesn't.

DeserttFoxx

Define Irony.

Create a MMORPG based off a franchise made popular by the abundance of freedom and choice, and remove a lot of freedom and choice that made the game so popular.

 

I got suckered with star wars, i refuse to buy this game that is clearly being made to ride the hype of skyrim. For fuck sakes guys, this is obviously just a money grab looking to play off the elder scrolls name. There isnt a single elder scrolls game that has race locks or faction restrictions, yet here we are, preparing to accept this bullshit.

 

The only thing about this game that is elder scrolls is the damn title.  What makes elder scrolls so great is the freedom, this game just by reading the stuff they are willing to share will not have anywhere near the freedom or choice the series is known and reckognized for.

GTwander

Originally posted by cooper85

race lock is good. It's a plus.

Why?

ShakyMo

How's it being made to ride the hype of skyrim when they started working on it 5 years ago. It's scheduled for next year, they never started at skyrim launch, you can't build a mmo in 18 months.

GreenishBlue

Dark elves(check!), Nords(check! check!) and argonians(check check check!) are going to rule Tamriel.  So the Ebonheart Pact will faceroll in PvP. I would prefer to have the option to select a faction without race restrictions. After all, according to the devs, I am the Hero!

iceman00

Originally posted by Moaky07

They need to try to balance the 3 factions. Giving each a kick ass race insures the population will be spread.

I'd say on that alone the Dominion is incredibly underpowered then.  Ebonheart pact has Nords (pretty much the coolest human race), dark elves (again, bad ass simply because they are DARK), and argonians (reptile death-dealing assasins). 

Hammerfell has redguards, borg like warrior race with curved swords and orcs.

 

Dominion has two races with pointed ears and cat people.........

GTwander

Originally posted by ShakyMo
How's it being made to ride the hype of skyrim when they started working on it 5 years ago. It's scheduled for next year, they never started at skyrim launch, you can't build a mmo in 18 months.

You can with the HERO engine... and I don't quite believe the statement they released about it not being made with it. They wouldn't put all that effort into a 'prototype' and just make the 'real' game in tandem, on a completely different engine. I think it's bullshit, but only time will tell (or the first ACTUAL gameplay vid).

Sure, they could have started *pre-production* 5 years ago, but a design doc doesn't mean much.

iceman00

Originally posted by GreenishBlue

Dark elves(check!), Nords(check! check!) and argonians(check check check!) are going to rule Tamriel.  So the Ebonheart Pact will faceroll in PvP. I would prefer to have the option to select a faction without race restrictions. After all, according to the devs, I am the Hero!

I don't know about faceroll, but it will be a pretty nasty zerg.  Will have to see how the mechanics of the "endgame" pvp work to see whether or not it is a zerg. 

For example, in Pirates of the Burning Sea, the OVERWHELMING amount of players were always British or Pirate.  The amount of players in Spain and France for all times didn't even come close to equaling the amount of Brits just on in prime time.  Yet with that massive numerical advantage, they almost never won a map.  Why?

Quite simply, there were restrictions in place.  On the open sea, fights were locked 6 v 6.  When fighting for the port, it was locked 24 v 24.  While this created its own problems, it allowed smaller more skilled nations to win.  If the zerg was led by competent individuals, they could simply overwhelm the smaller opposition, but that normally didn't happen.

But if they are expecting population to balance itself out, when all races are more or less the same (i.e. classes aren't restricted to certain races far as I'm aware), then Ebonheart is going to have at least half the players.

Entinerint

Originally posted by iceman00

Originally posted by Moaky07

They need to try to balance the 3 factions. Giving each a kick ass race insures the population will be spread.

I'd say on that alone the Dominion is incredibly underpowered then.  Ebonheart pact has Nords (pretty much the coolest human race), dark elves (again, bad ass simply because they are DARK), and argonians (reptile death-dealing assasins). 

Hammerfell has redguards, borg like warrior race with curved swords and orcs.

 

Dominion has two races with pointed ears and cat people.........

Too bad they arbitrarily threw them together because of geographical convenience rather than anything truly lore-based.  Lazy, stupid devs make lazy, stupid game.  What a shock...

jiveturkey12

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by iceman00

Originally posted by Moaky07

They need to try to balance the 3 factions. Giving each a kick ass race insures the population will be spread.

I'd say on that alone the Dominion is incredibly underpowered then.  Ebonheart pact has Nords (pretty much the coolest human race), dark elves (again, bad ass simply because they are DARK), and argonians (reptile death-dealing assasins). 

Hammerfell has redguards, borg like warrior race with curved swords and orcs.

 

Dominion has two races with pointed ears and cat people.........

Too bad they arbitrarily threw them together because of geographical convenience rather than anything truly lore-based.  Lazy, stupid devs make lazy, stupid game.  What a shock...

 

This is what really gets me pissed off too, and yes I know alot of you have heard that us ES fans are "Pissed off" well if anything at least see this as a plausible excuse. As the above poster said, they didnt link Dark Elves, Nords, and Argonians into a Pact because of Lore, (Which is obvious because anyone who plays Morrowind knows the Dark Elves Enslaved Argonians and used them as field workers, and this is the time AFTER ESO!!).

They did it because it was easier to develop, its just another corner they cut. Which is all this game is, anyone of the people defending this game can say one thing or anothr, but NO ONE can say this is an Elder Scrolls game. Literally if you say that, then you have no respect for lore or for the ideas presented by the original developers. Why do people defend third-party games with such enthusiasm anyways, can anyone name me the last third party game based off a popular IP that was anygood??

 

Seriously if this was a singleplayer game people would have no problem damning it, but because its an MMO and everyone wants MMO's to be awesome (Which sorry they havent been for years) they cling to every new game like its going to be some savior, or something better than WoW. Well sorry WoW beat everyone the minute Company Execs decided to start going for quick copy cash grabs instead of making original games.

 

And No ESO isnt a WoW clone, but its made in the same shitty vein of MMO's that exsist now, which is lets make everything as CONVIENIENT as Possible for the player, lets tell him everything to do, lets give him no ability to act outside the box....which is exactly the opposite of what the OPEN WORLD RPG's known as ELDER SCROLLS was all about. Is anyone on the opposite end seeing the correlation? Can anyone actual come up with a counter-argument to me that isnt "O your whining cause the games not what you want", no it isnt what I want, because its what weve already had a thousand times! We need a progressive game, now take your fucking three faction pvp, and your open world dungeons and go stick them under a different IP and then I wont be pissed.

GTwander

Originally posted by jiveturkey12

Is anyone on the opposite end seeing the correlation?

Most people totally for this game are blinded by two things;

They think the team behind Bethesda's version is behind it, and fail, utterly, to do their research.

They are DAoC vets that don't give a shit about TES as long as it means a reboot of 3-faction PvP.