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The older generation of gamers was much more social and patient
Trolldefender99
Member UncommonPosts: 416
So, I have been playing MMOs since 1999. My first MMO was Asheron's Call, and then moved to SWG after that (until NGE). I then played various MMOs...consisting of: EVE Online, Darkfall, DAOC, Ultima Online (a favorite of mine) and Everquest. As you can see, I have a lot of experience with social-based MMOs.
What all these MMOs have in common is that people were (and still are to a point) a very social atmosphere. In Asheron's Call, groups happened all the time and you met people randomly. You didn't have to hit a looking for group button or spam chat, it just happened naturally. In Ultima Online, PKers gathered together to fight non-PKers and whole wars broke out. EVE Online is the greatest example of a more recent MMO, where it is heavily based on being social. Wars break out, chat flies by, people are everywhere. EVE Online also requires a lot of patience, something modern MMOers just do not have. Even the EVE tutorial requires much patience, and sadly, this new generation of gamers, can't even make it past that to a great game.
Take MMOs from WoW and onward. People don't want to group or socialize. There is even a button to auto join a group, and 95% of the time, no one even chats or only says a sentence or two if you are lucky. And if someone makes one mistake, they don't have the patience to help them or keep going...they yell "NOOOOOB" and autoquit the group. What happened to MMOers? What happened to the patience and the social aspect of MMOs?
One experience I had in WoW. A newbie to dead mines (an instanced dungeon in Westfall, Alliance territory) was tanking for the group. He wasn't bad, but not great either. However, he did not know what "pulling" was and asked in chat. One person in the group said "wtf noob, god this group sucks"...and that was the only two things (the first being the question) said the entire group and the guy "rage" quit the party. Two others followed and the group died.
Obviously, this is due to the themepark mentality, even the same as real themeparks. I call it the the themepark mentality.
The company wants a quick dollar and makes an easy to make themepark game (sandboxes take actual skill to make, especially a good one), that is more singleplayer than multiplayer. Notice how all sandboxes have a heavy social influence to them and require a lot of patience? Themepark MMOs are contradictory...they aren't for people who like to group or socialize, they are for people who like singleplayer games and a chat room, with maybe a group or two a week at end game.
I obviously greatly dislike themeparks as you can tell, and I go in knowing just that. But I play them so I have prove of my claims. Maybe even hope a themepark game comes out with a social atmosphere, but it never does. I am much more of a sandbox fan, which are TRUE MMOs and not singleplayer games with a monthly fee.
Comments
I completely agree. Kudos to us all old gamers Nowadays these evil corporations just want to wring us out of our money.
I blame cellphones.
In the mid 90s when the first MMOs came out cellphones were only used by rich jerks, now everyone including me have one and people are way less patient now than back then. Everything needs to be done right now and people are use to be able to get in touch with anyone ASAP.
I think it is also the games fault, working together was a lot more important in games like m59, UO, AC and EQ. Now many players doesn´t even talk to eachother and the game is all about you promoting even more selfish behavior.
Blaming the new generation have been popular since Platons time, I don´t think that ever was true.
It is not that the games are themeparks, but because they are more casual and solo friendly these days that the social aspect goes out the window. I've known people in EVE that rarely talk to anyone, so it is not really a sandbox vs themepark issue.
I do find it a bit ironic that today is the age of social media, people are practically sharing every aspect of their lives, yet in a MMO, which usually was a social game, no one is social, heh.
Good post. I too remember when MMO communities were a lot more friendly and sociable. I made tons of friends playing DAoC and pre-Wrath WoW particularly. Even new games like GW2 that try and emphasize group play in the quest system utterly fail to force players to actually socialize with each other to complete objectives. It's really sad how far down the drain this genre has gone.
Get this man his Spotlight Poster title!
That is one thing I find about nostalgia these days...it just isn't what it used to be.
But really it is not the games that are causing this, but the population in general. Take the bus, and outside of friends that are on the bus at the same time, how many poeple strike up a conversation with the complete stranger that sits beside them? How many conversations with a complete stranger have you had in line at the ATM? at Starbucks? at the movies?
I have actually seen more conversations in a WoW LFG run than any of the places mentioned above...
That is not really fair, comparing so long time in DaoC with 2 weekends in GW2. GW2 actually tries to promote more social behavior (or at least to not promote anti social such) but it will take time to get there, particularly when everyone is running around psyched up since the beta event is so short.
I will agree with the patience part but that is a learned response. Information is available instantly.
However I disagree with the social part. There have been several studies showing that youth today are more social than at any other time in recorded history, they are more connected with each other - friends, cellphones, facebook, twitter, blogs. Rarely is any youth actually alone.
Now you can say that they are more ambivalent about their social circle however all the evidence shows that they are indeed more social. However those social tendancies just may not translate well into a game.
You remind me of old people nowadays saying that teenagers are lazy useless and spoiled, and that in their time things where different. But yeah, I do agree
We want more player created content, socially driven, because dev content runs dry and gets stale. RIP SWG.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
The first game I got REALLY involved with was DAOC, then went to WoW, WAR and a few others. My years at DAOC were by far the best I had with any community in any game, Most of the people that were there were dedicated to the product that was presented to them. In business it was always about the money, but I do believe that old school DAOC dev's took pride in the game they made and it in turn made the "older" gamers more inclined to hang around and stay with their community
Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained
Playing: None
Played: DAOC, WAR, FFXIV, WOW, Vanguard, GW, GW2, LORTO,
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed he was just following everything that was written in the "how to post on mmorpg.com" thread.
It's sad that it's working...
I've been a hermit since the beginning - don't you tell me I was social and patient! *waves cane*
You know what I would like to see...some type of experience system account wide.
Example let's take the OP orginal story and use that.
A new player creates a character and starts a low level dungeon in westfall..after leveling up of course.
Now since he is new he does't say have any starts by his name..kind of like a ranking system. Howver the other guys might have played for a couple of years so they have a star or something that visually states they are experienced in the game. this is not to put people down but more of a certain type of collaboration system in which old and new players can decide if they want to interact or drop group. Or you can even que looking for group based on that.
I know I probably messed this explanation up but im on a limited time schedule...work is calling lol.
If you drop something, it will fall. Don't lament gravity.
No, it is due to that player being a dick.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
As for the second highlighted part, kind of retarded... Hey look, I am going to prove that hitting myself in the head with a hammer is bad by hitting myself in the head with a hammer... Come on...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
The OP pretty much nailed it big time. MMOs needs to be worlds that promote social aspects and group combat. This whole theme park single player nonsense is for the birds and it is ruining the genre.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
There is also a substantial crowd of people that inhabit MMOs that scorn game-related social interaction when they see it occurring, which only further discourages people from putting forth an effort.
Appeals for advice or help, or even just comments like "champion mob X is up!" are often immediately met with extremely derisive comments. Let's face it. Nobody likes to be called an idiot, laughed at, told "LOL nobody cares idiot" or "If you can't solo that then you should just stop playing games" and so on, even when they know these people aren't worth listening to. So the only people who respond are other trolls creating a vicious cycle of insults and bitching.
Basically, many social gamers have been bullied out of the social scene. The chances that trying to engage will result in a positive experience are extremely low.
Theme parks didnt bring about asshole gamers, Technically all those old games, were Themeparks in the eyes of the industry, The Only Actual Sandbox was SWG. But The mentality that WoW brought about is the problem. The instant gratification vs the patience and working together. Now its all ME ME ME, That came from WoW and every MMO that has copied it since then. EQ2 launched 2 weeks before WoW, with a number of systems in common to accomodate the evolution of MMO's. WoW Catered to the ME ME ME folks(although not as heavily as it did later on) and EQ2 Stayed quite a bit true to the social, group oriented game that EQ was, but added options for solo folks. Nearly identical in terms of features at launch but designed for 2 different demographics of MMO players. Its funny, Developers get it wrong all the time now adays, they think Solo means Selfish and that is just not true. They make a game more solo friendly but to them solo friendly means all about ME! They are actually meant to be separate things, Solo means I can do it by myself, Selfish means, I only care about me. Catering to Soloers is not the same as catering to selfish people, but devs make things selfish and say its for soloers giving them a bum rap.
For the record I am a Social gamer, I love to group and love to need groups to do content, but Soloers are not the demons the devs have indirectly made them out to be, selfish people are the ones who dont belong in MMO's and that is what all these modern MMO's are Selfish Me Oriented games.
I want the days of EQ back in terms of difficulty and social interaction because of one you needed the other. It was an amazing time and I hope a developer *cough SOE cough EQNext* comes through.
Teenagers ARE lazy, useless and spoiled! I have 2 of them and can't even get them to wash a dish!.. But that's besides the point... what was the point? Oh yeah....
I've been playing MMO's since 97 with UO and I've just recently, within the past 2 weeks, decided to step away from them to take a break because I can't find anybody in game to group up with... and that's in multiple MMO's.
When I think about the social aspect, and when it all started to go down hill and what might have caused it, I almost want to blame instancing. "Back in the day" we would go to dungeons and just group up with smaller groups that you might see in the dungeon. Join together for a common goal kind of thing. I dunno, maybe I'm just talking outta my behind.
Now, GET OFF MY LAWN!
OP, if there's anything I've learned from the time I've spent on these boards, it's that there are at the very least a guild's worth of people on these boards that share your opinion. I recommend this thread if you're looking for the same general mentality and are open to what game to play, otherwise I'd advise going to the specific section for the game you're looking to play and post something looking for likeminded players.
I have found that who you play with can be more important than the game you're playing- but then as far as I'm concerned all MMOs are nothing more than a stage, a setting for social interaction and it's those interactions within the setting of the game that are enjoyable and memorable.
No "we" dont.....you, and fellow gamers that like MMO sandboxes may.
Thankfully there is kickstarter. Now instead of bitching daily, you guys can go out and solicit donations to get that "wonderful" game made.
SWG couldnt touch EQ, and that was before MMOs went mainstream with WoW. I dont agree with some of the changes over the years, but it still beats farming the same money making items so you can purchase the same wares from Owen. You mention things getting stale, and yet Owen play is the epitome of boring.
For those of you hanging on SWGs jock, it amazes me you guys wont back the Repopulation. Instead those devs are trying their damndest to give you guys what you claim you want, and yet we constantly hear about the game that crashed n burned. Not the one that is still alive.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Meeting up with new folks in different zones of EQ used to be a good thing.
The problem is that there is always an asshat....or 5....that wanna cause issues for others. It may be part of the mechanics of PVP, but folks trying to avoid others BS in PVE are not going to put up with it.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Even though I agree with a lot of what you said someone really needs to point out something important here.
Asherons Call and SWG were unique games that have had ZERO games try to mimick them. They were one of a kind, and we will more than likely never see their kind again. The industry went the way of Everquest cloning which was forced group based gaming. If you force group, you help kill the community. Allow people to flow into groups and you create a community.
I know that this is where someone jumps in with ZOMG EQ HAD A COMMUNIT LOLZ U NO NOTHING!
EQ was the first true forced group game and was made up of mostly D&D old school players...the genre slid down the slope of poor communities as the years of EQ clones grew into WoW clones...and yes, WoW was an EQ clone on roids.