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Trash mobs
Grahor
Member Posts: 828
The main problem in mmorpgs for me is trash mobs. You know them: just a bunch of mobs that present no challenge and no interest, having no purpose and are there only for one reason: to make you spend more time moving from start of the quest to its boss/end, or from point A to point B.
Single player games have them, a recent example - Dragon Age 2 had them in nearly every battle. But in mmorpgs they truly are a pandemic. Since most mmorpgs need to artificially extend game time, they insert such mobs everywhere. My mind can take only so much extending before it bursts.
For me, for a game to have interest, every encounter must represent a challenge - either by a new mob type, a new mob combination, or a different tactical situation through terrain, mob scripts, etc. This means that pretty much every encounter must be hand-crafted, or a lot of different types of enemies with different scripts, behaviors and AIs have to be created. This, of course, is a problem, because there is only so much human-months is available for development.
This, by necessity, means that the games I like are short - because they contain no empty filler, no trash mobs, and without filler there is only so much content that can be developed. That's okay for me; if I wanted to fight the trash, I would become a janitor.
So, the question. I didn't play GW2 betas, I did watch some videos; I don't expect anything revolutionary from it, and I'm satisfied with what I see. I am, however, interested, how many trash mobs are in there. In all mmorpgs I've played, the main reason I've stopped was because I was tired of moping the trash. Would I be tired in GW2 sooner or later?
Comments
There really is no such thing as a "trash mob" in GW2. Normal every day quest monsters, even provide challenge, and if you dont pay attention you will die. Thats something I really look forward to, tired of roflstomping every mob in zones, and in dungeons.
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If you mean mobs just placed on the map with no other purpose but help you level up than i would sat not that many as most mobs do play some part in events that may unfold at a certain point in time and the ones that are there offer very little in terms of xp gains making grinding them not a worthwhile activity.
That's not saying much. If I don't pay attention, I can die fighting mobs in SWTOR. But it's no actual challenge. If I can kill 20 mobs using same tactics, same strategy, and not turning on a brain once, then 18 of those 20 mobs are trash mobs.
With your definition, no there are no trash mobs in gw2. Also as you level up, the lower level mobs do not get trash too, thanks to the sidekicking system. There are critters, like armodons, rabbits, owls etc, but they should not be considered as mobs.
All of the monsters have their reason to fight you or vice-versa, you can learn such intel by talking to the scouts or just by observing.
No, I mean mobs just placed in quest zones to extend the time I need to finish that quest. It's not important if they bring experience or not. If I have to repeatedly kill same or similar mobs using the same tactics and strategy without new challenge at each step, they are trash mobs.
Well we have only done catacombs so far but from my experience I would say that the definition of trash mob may be different. While some of the Bosses were more elaborate some of the "guard" spawns were actually harder.
The Ranger spawns and the Elementalists in catacombs were horribly nasty. People were mad that the "trash" was harder than the boss but Ithink this was intentional. I the idea is there is one nasty nasty in a group of 3 and you need to do something about it.
I am not sure if the elementalist was balanced right. It did ridiculous damage, on the other hand if I Moa'ed it and we focus fired it the encounter was quite manageable. If you don't do that it wipes your whole groups. Watching vidoe's of people who don't understand how powerful spike damage is and think you tank and spank all pve I was just laughing as the elementalist destroyed them.
I dunno things may get nerfed but if they stay as they are I would say that just because they didn't give the mobs in the encoutner names doesn't mean they are pushovers.
Also consider that due the game mechanics some mobs may be in a certain area only for a limited amount of time, if for example you failed a certain event where you had to protect a certain spot on the map than that area would be overrun by mobs until someone clears them, so they do have some purpose in being there and i would not consider them classic trash mob as we know from other mmos but rather part of the evolving story.
Your definition doesn't make sense for the content. Ther world is populated. Where you will be going will depend as the world is dynamic.
Sometimes or even often stuff will be in your way. Sometimes that stuff is having an event and its where you are going. Sometimes its not and its just between some other area something is happening ing.
It's a dungeon, right? What about normal gameplay?
From the point of view of a player, does it makes a difference? If I have to go from A to B, and I have no choice but to mop (aka kill mobs who don't present a new challenge for me) a number of mobs in the process, they are trash mobs. Doesn't really matter why they are there.
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You can play the game and only kill group of mobs or "elite" mobs that come in Dynamic Events. You can avoid killing single mobs, "trash mobs", outside the town if you so wish. I don't think you can call a group of Centaurs rampaging "trash mobs" or a big boss a "trash mob". The only time when you will kill mobs just for the shake of killing them is when you complete gathering Dynamic Events. You can avoid the rest of the "trash" if you want.
As others have said all fights in the game require some sort of attention, especially in DEs when either lots of mobs come or powerful ones, but you can die easily in single mob fights if you are not careful, there are no fights that can be won while sleeping. Keep in mind that mobs have a nice variety, with different abilities, different powers. The weapon system allows you to adapt, so you can defeat them. Paying attention to their abilities and changing your is key. You might be able to defeat them with any combination, but some are faster or more optimal.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Well because of how the game scales your level down to match lower levels, finding incredibly simple trash mobs is not like most other games. A lvl 15 character in a lvl 6 zone, will scale down to lvl 6 - but you'll still be stronger than a lvl 6 toon because of gear, skills, etc. Lots of players were going off on how their 1500 hp just went down to 450
My solo experience was mostly fighting lvls 2-5 above me, so nothing was ever super easy. I could kill 2, maybe 3 of these higher level enemies in a row. Within an area, there will be veteran and named mobs as well, more hp, dps like in most games.
For DEs, there were always other players participating. Most of these events seem to be defensive, escort, or raid based. Only a few of these felt like they were super easy, probably because of massive AOE damage on the mob waves. Depending on your role, these events can be tricky. I don't know much about the aggro system, but my thief seemed to do it rather well haha. One of the default attacks is also a bouncing shot, so got to remember to watch aggro when that is on. These events are the most fun I thought for leveling, and nothing feels like trash. If there are a high number of "easier" mobs, you'll most likely be defending a caravan or some farmers from them.
Now "trash" mobs for other quests, like the
are not even required, because each of these quests give 3-4 options that accumulate to finish the quest. However, I found that killing 10 centaurs was often faster than shaking trees for apples, reviving fallen hunters, collecting crabs in crates, or digging up worms to fight.
My experienc is based on playing the three starter regions. I hear quests improve later on.
Just some devs grinding on some Trash.
Not really, I mean i could close my eyes in swtor and get mobs killed, but GW2 required focus. First time I've had sweaty palms while playing a starting zone in any game.
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I miss GW2
Have fun storming the castle! - Miracle Max
Well honestly this video is nice, but the Charr is lv 80, the Mesmer is lv 14, and they fight lv16 mobs, so they kind of have it easy. You can see when the mesmer is left alone he have some hard time with those mobs
But if you like challenge you should be well served with GW2, definitly the best mmo around to give you nice challenge, they do have trash mobs for sure but overall it way way better.
Ps the nicest challenges for me were the skill points, some are really nicely made.
The fact that the Thief was level 80 still didn't stop him rom getting 2 shotted by those Ettins.
Sidekicking.
There are mobs impeding your path, if that is what you consider trash.
Some of these "trash mobs" can almost 1 shot you if you are not playing correctly against them. Etins and Trolls pack a big punch in their attacks, you have to be paying attention and using skills effectively, or you will die very quickly.
Also, there is way more focus on pulling correctly and more conservatively. You don't just charge in to groups, or pull as many mobs as you can see and AoE them down like in many games. You will die doing that. There is definitely a challenge with most mob types, and each has something special they do.
It might not be an epic boss fight, but the game never felt as mindless as pretty much any other MMO I have played seems. It is much more "action oriented" gameplay. GW2 feels more like an action game than an MMO to me, which is refreshing and much more skill based than just coming up with a button rotation.
When you run your first dungeon and find yourself going from full to 0 HP in a couple seconds on the trash mobs ... you will see that it is much more challenging and interactive. You really have to see it for yourself, I really enjoy the difficutly of the game so far.
reading your answer ican say you dint play gw2 at all and no basically there is not trash mob in gw2 like some 1 say before in gw 2 they basically make you use your skill well and dodge so you can survive , it not like others game that you can solo 6 -10 mobs here even 2 mobs shasing you it really give you a problem if you dont play litter well even 2 .
ill say play the game and be the judge yourself that the best experience some 1 can get by the game ,not by looking vid or hearing what other have to say.
Long story short, there is no trash mobs in GW2 like there is in "traditional" MMOs.
All mobs represent a challenge and danger, you can't just go through your skill rotation without thought and expect to live for very long. The reason for this is because even regular mobs can deal just as much damage as player, if not more in many cases, and have many varied skills.
For example, even level 2 mobs have abilities that reflect all incoming damage and thus you can end up severely hurting yourself if you are careless.
TotalBiscuit puts it quite nicely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-UZFu7yZEw#t=12m16s
Ye i got this kind of surprise too when playing lower level events, even if it was generally easier for sure, few times i was like... dying fighting 20level less mobs OMG!.. and had to use my best combos to pull it off
Also, each mob that's in the world has a reason to be in that exact spot - I wouldn't call those mobs thrash mobs. You enter a bandit hideout, so of course you'll see bandits walking around, patrolling, and going about their lives there. If you enter the woods, you may encounter a bear or two. Boars around boar hunting grounds. You'll find skelk strolling around their nests by a river. So yes, if your goal is to save a child's mother from bandit kidnappers, of course you'll need to make your way through a bunch of bandits, because after all, it's a bandit hideout you're in.
So no, there isn't thrash mobs in the traditional sense, as each and every mob pretty much has a reason to be where they are. And like others have said, they're definitely not something you can just roll over without paying attention.
A bit of further clarification: "trash mobs" doesn't mean "weak mobs", it means "mobs that don't represent any _new_ challenge". Once you learn how to kill an Ettin, what tactics you need to use, Etiins become trash mobs, no matter if they still represent the challenge: it's the same challenge, nothing new, you know how to kill them, you just go through routine. Action-filled, dodging, dangerous routine, but routine nevertheless.
And "being careful in pulling monsters" doesn't mean they aren't trash mobs anymore. In fact, I would much prefer that any action would trigger a script aggroing pre-designed groups of monsters at you and your group, so that whole "pulling monsters" idea would disappear like Dodo.
Fighting 3 monsters of the same type and then fighting 4 monsters is not routine; we have a new variable here. Fighting 3 monsters and 3 monsters and 3 monsters is fighting trash mobs, even if it's challenging.
From the video that was posted here, I see that indeed there are plenty trash mobs developers play through in the video. Oh, well, can't be helped. It's good to know that there are way to limit the necessity to go through it in the game.