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My Opinion: Why WWIIOL is dead.
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What about all the builders who donated money just to see CRS squander it?
For that matter, what about all the angry people who donated to Rapid Assault?
Are any of them allowed to complain?
Builder? Yes.
RA Subscriber? Yes.
Im here - im not complaining.
Im not stopping anyone else, but what I don't like is when people take one thing and use it to smear poop over everythign else that is not poopy.
Edit: Has great fun standing in the woos tonight listening to the exchange of rile fire at a FB..
*BANG*
BANG*BANG*
*BANG*BANG*
...and that was 1 battle in the 8+ I fought in!
Certainly not dead
Everyone is allowed to complain, but to try and ruin something for others just because you feel like you got slighted is just selfish and inconsiderate! And you sir, are a broken Fn record!
We get it, you feel like CRS owes you something. I disagree with you on most everything you post...is there something wrong with that? Nothing personal at all. Christ! You act like CRS wrote out your check for you and forced you to subscribe to their product...did they??? Are you a builder? Did you donate money to the RA developement?
I'm not a builder myself, nor did I donate to RA developement, but if I did, I certainly wouldnt bitch about it, they wouldnt have forced me to spend my own money on anything I didnt want to spend it on, I'd like to think I have ALL the control over where my entertainment dollars are spent. And I do. So should you.
I have built 2 computers to play this game over the years but do you see me complaining about it?? NO! Why?? Because it was MY decision to do it! And the Game is worth it to me to say the least.
I'm just as invested in this game as anyone here I can assure you, maybe more than some, difference is, I dont feel like my sub buys me a stake in the game's direction, as you seem to. My sub does buy me access to the game and that's good enough for me.
"what about all the angry people who donated to Rapid Assault?"
It's OK to be angry, but at yourself just as much if you arent satisfied with the product YOU donated to, after all, no one forced you.
"What about all the builders who donated money just to see CRS squander it?"
Let's see, this question isnt even a valid one considering builders are paying for a service, which they have unlimited access to, so they ARE getting what they paid for from what I see. And as far as CRS squandering it, this is your opinion/observation that not alot of us share or agree with. So how can anyone honestly and factually answer this? they cant!
So what we need now is something new from you to keep it fresh:)
I do find the complaints over the same issues repetitive at times but I also find the default CRS fan club replies also repetitive. CRS has a poor history of customer relations and that flippant attitude used by some in the Texas office only serves as gas to the flames. I do still play the game occasionally. Even with all the recent drama that unfolded I have no plans on cancelling my 2 subs since they have been going 10 years so no reason to stop now. Perhaps if you think CRS is some religious calling for you to defend, the better part of valor would be to move on versus typing away to defend a company that as you stated you do not work for currently. The company which you do not work for is desperate for income streams by their own admission so a little empathy could go a long way to bring older players back. Or you could keep going on and on mocking anyone that has a complaint and see how that works out for the subscriber count…….
The game is pretty broke and they couldnt fix it even if they did have some kind of revelation at this point anyway. The longtime issues with the hc/toe/ao mechanics are shared by many and the root cause more people dont play the game today. Something they have been in denial on for a very long time
Logging in to find an awful boxed herd of play with little to no coordination on the ground is so far from what this game should be offering. The stalness in todays product is pretty severe and even half the muppets left playing general wouldnt know good squad play if they seen it.
You havent needed new graphics, or new buildings, or even RA (LOL) this entire time to increase player numbers and good game play. Beleive it or not those two keys to a succesful game are closely related. You need something called player freedom. When you let players go where they want, when they want, with what equipment they want they will do the rest for you
The ball has been dropped over and over by this crew and they do deserve to read these posts. Many things would be great to have in game that we all want but you need to start with the easy fundementals first. They arent close at all on those
Who's mocking anyone? Just because I dont agree with you, this means I'm mocking you? I think not.
And I have no empathy for someone who brings pain opon themselves unnecessarily and then makes it out to be someone elses fault.
And also CRS is no more a "religious calling to defend" for me, than it is a religious calling for you to trash. So if my defending ww2online is bothering you or something, that is your problem, I have as much a right to defend this game and it's players as you do to trash it.
Do I not?
I do not believe I ever "trashed" a player or the game itself. Now I feel the game is currently not being served properly by its game managment team. You of course have right to your opinion as do the other players, current and ex. By the choice of words you and the other extreme defenders use that can be considered "mocking". I am not sure how if others wish to come on this non-company forum and express issues, conspiracies theories or whatever why they must be attacked. If you do not wish to hear anything but happy thoughts then WW2 has their own overly policed forums and Silky will welcome your positive comments. You seem to have as many anger issues as the non stop "haters" on this forums. Maybe if you stopped hating on the haters then this silly banter would stop, perhaps?
Perhaps not.
While your faith in humanity is inspiring, I dont think the haters will ever just stop. And that fact is proven thread after hateful thread on this forum for YEARS! Alot of lies have been spread about this game you say you still play and if you left it up to some of the hate posters here, the doors would be closed by now. Do you like it when someone hates the game you say you play, so much, they would lie to see it shut down? I dont.
So your saying I should just leave? LOL Or are you saying I should be more agreeable twards the haters? I'm confused by your post, I shouldnt hate a hater but hate the game? Btw I am attacking no one. I think your confusing my passion for this game and it's players with some kind of personal attack, and I can understand this.
And no, I do not wish to only see happy posts, but comon, what good is it doing anyone to misinform potential players by stating fiction disguised as fact about a game you say you hate? You like the hate posts better? Some of their points are valid ones that I do indeed share with them but do You think the haters are totally right all the time? They are not! I'm not right all the time either, but I'm also not trying to ruin something that others play just because I think I got ripped or hate the Devs either.
Do You want to defend the misinformation about the game you play? Do you want to try and prevent others from trying the game? Fine if you do, just dont try to make yourself out to be a non-biased party, like you seem to try to do here.
My intentions are crystal clear..I love this game and the players in it. And I don't want to see it fold when I know it is still a good game! Do I think it is Perfect? NO! Am I a fan? YES I am...so what? As far as anger problems go..so what? What does this have to do with stating my opinion counter to theirs?
I think the game has alot of problems but do I think it's dead or it should die? Hell no! And If you are one of those that do, then I am here to disagree with you about that, and If you dont like that then like I say, that's your problem not mine.
If you want to defend the negitive and the people who bring it, that's fine, I wish you luck on that. But I will stlll choose to support the game and it's players no matter what. For the sake of redundancy, I will stop here
And I truly hope this is good enough for you:)
That is one of the points, the haters will always hate so you can not change that thought process but you can validate it by debating with any hater on any subject. By the mere fact of debating you keep a conversation going that should be forgotten. Your passion for the game is mirrored in the "haters" since they have a passion for the game as well just some issue or the other caused it all to go side ways.
I do still play the game and have 2 paying accts and was once a GHC member. I still work with my squad, Blitzkader, on most squad nights and have made many friends. Do I believe CRS is a badly run company, yes. Do I still love the overall game, yes. CRS created too many of these problems and for the most part rarely defends itself clearly or properly. DOC should never be allowed to speak to the outside world to save the few players left. His "wit" and sarcasm does more damage no matter what was intended.
Others disinformation could be correct from thier point of view, it all depends on how much emphaty you have for others so you can see what the actual arguement is for each party. That is where blind loyalty creates a dogma mentality and good discussion dies. The WW2 forums are not efective with the current TOS rules so this is where others can blow off some steam. If other large defenders come on here and start a flame war then the game will lose in the end not from your defense but from the hateful arguement.
Unfortunately OJ is right.
The guys at CRS still do not admit that WW2online has bad fundamentals, that the basic mechanics are flawed. They did not believe this years ago, they do not believe it now. Using unpaid player administrators(the high commands) to manage a convoluted supply system and to dictate to the rest of the subscribers where and when they can fight has not resulted in a popular game experience, much less a stable one.
The only explanations I've seen for the lack of subscriber numbers have been some cryptic posts about demographics or the gaming marketplace. Just look at their statements during the RA campaign; they assume that WW2online is perfect and that the market just isn't big enough to support this type of game.
This is discouraging because it means that in the event that CRS does regain the ability, they still are not going to change their game rules. Since they have lost most of their company, including every employee who knows how to work on their game's code and still haven't budged on the high command and brigade systems I don't think that they're going to be open to suggestion at any point in the future.
I agree with alot of this post. I am not a big fan of RA, it's just not for me at all. I am one of the few players who like the rain though...I would have spent that time elsewhere but I do like it.
I really think the game needed an "open" front myself. AO's are fine to funnel people to the big battles, but I would have loved to see every front line town be capturable at the same time, to allow for more freedom,squad ops, and more realistic battle conditions. Would have been cool I think. But so many players fell in love with the TOEs and AOs. It was sickening to me at the time. But I guess I was in the minority on that one if I remember right
There was a time when I thought I'd end up unsubbing for good, but I stuck it out through the AOs and the TOEs and found, my feelings about them were right, I didnt like them at all, still dont. But the game, with all it's bugs and imperfections, is still fun to play. I still hold out hope that they can get on their feet, turn this around and make this thing happen.
I do agree with you on some of this:) And I know what you are trying to say here.
I dont try to change their minds on anything, only try to add my 2cents to alot of it . They have proven time after time, they don't need me to keep the bs going, and I'm not trying to get them to stop. Like I say, everyone deserves to have an opinion. I do not try to prevent that.
They say it's dead, I say it's not. They say the game is not even worth trying out, I say it is and state why. So i'm not preventing anyone from an opinion, only countering it with mine if I disagree. Nothing even remotly personal twards them at all. I have also said before that I respect their passion if nothing else.
Just get's me fired up to see people ready to shovel dirt on something that clearly isnt dead, sure it's not the game it once was, not even close. But I think alot of us can agree it's worth playing. And that is the main point I want to defend everytime.
Like I have said before, I can understand some people's disappointment here but to just lay waste to the game with lies and emo-posting just because they hate DOC, and at the players who still play this game's expense, is a real selfish thing to do. So I have called a few people on it. Nothing wrong with that IMO. That's what we're all here for is to express our own opinions, that's what I have done. Some of them dont like it, some of them dont care. But they can take it of leave it for all I care.
I love your squad btw, BK are hardcore dudes and am proud to say are mostly made up of my friends and former squadies!
They are an AWESOME example of some great people in this game I would hate to part with if this game ever goes down. So you see why I'm so passionate about it? all you have to do is to log in and see some of the great people that populate the gameto want to do what you can to help save it. I love logging on and seeing Fsjr02 leading men in battle! I love to log on and go into a town where you have Olavv cordinating Def, Suks2bu and Letzrock Killing infantry and FRUs like a madman..Matamor Killing EVERYTHING that moves! I love that too much to stand idley by and watch it all go to hell unopposed.
To see someone try their best to make all that go away just angers me. I think you know where I'm comming from:)
!S
The issues you have brought up are the ones many people bring up as faults by CRS. Normally threads about any issues brought up on the forums will be deleted/closed by either some over zealous moderator who wants to tow the CRS line (and thus hide issues from CRS) or doc after he has made a bit of a fool of himself or wants to stop people taking apart his 'facts'.
I would say in past posts you have mocked others when they express their greviances with the game while you yourself have multiple grievances. The approach of mocking/ridiculing a player with a grieivance in the end harms the game more than the person who started it. Rather than just someone stating their problem and that being that instead it will just add fuel to the fire. All honest opinions should be heard it's just people post her under the pretext of supporting the game e.g. stug, silky, ce, xoom when in reality they do the complete opposite and harm the game as they just cause hostility by generalising anyone with grieviances as 'haters', whiners and b*ll*****rs when these issues are shared by hundreds and likely over a thousand old players (game was around 10,000+ at its height.)
One of the few things CRS has left is sympathy. Many players stayed subscribed even when they didn't play it because they wanted to support the company (old time players were putting in money for RA even though they were no longer subscribers just to help CRS out). Look at the builders program, do you think they pay $12 more just for an emblem? Many do it out of support even when they do have grieviances. Many of those were sympathy is a big influence on them subscribing have alot of issues with the game but want it to keep going. By mocking those players that express their greivances you just turn sympathy into hostility. When their sympathy is gone they will just unsubscribe.
Less subscribers=less money=less potential development, all from trying to mock someone.
Apart from a few I think we all "hope" they will turn it around but the problem is they have refused to do what is right and have gone down a course that the majority of players do not like.
Yet the circle jerk of sneering carries on Tim ed and time again. People are welcome to their opinion, but when opinions are lies or exaggerations this hurts the game and it's players today.
I'm with wrath on this one.
This game brings fond memories for me, i used to play axis with sturmgrenadier group, one of the memories that sticks in my mind was a bombing run on england during which one of my engines was hit by flak, i managed to limp home and landed successfully after checking the printed maps i had trying to find an airfield.
It took probably 20-30 mins to get home but i managed engine spluttering and smoke coming from the engine most of the way, it was one of the greatest experiences i've had in a computer game, so hearing that the game is dying is quite sad, but i suppose CRS made the decisions over the years that caused the decline.
/salute Storm23
Thank God for these forums here.
The WWII forums are a dead zone.
I still love the game and want it to succeed but I'm beginning to believe it may be impossible.
I don't see the game dying, but I don't see any progression on game development any time in the near future.
Also, DOC needs to have a lock put on his mouth in the forums.
Luckily i can vent my frustrations here and know CRS can read it.
Sounds awesome. I couldn't wait until they instituted bailing out of aircraft. I'd love it if I was shot down I could escape/evade back to a friendly town. ( I'm the kind of guy who after surviving an overrun city tries to retreat to a safe town to despawn. I guess it's the rpg aspect I like.) Sadly, my vision of bailing out never came to fruition.
I have not mocked anyone bud. I have expressed extreme disagreement towards an outright Lie, sure, but mocked someone for expressing their greviances, uh no...not even close.
Yes I have plenty of issues with the game, just like you, I choose to state them in such away as to stay within the facts. And I don't go around telling everyone who would listen that the game is not worth trying...you see what I mean? And I bet if I were to cut and paste this very comment I made to OJ, to the ww2ol forum, it would not get deleted. There's a reason I believe that, it's not rude and unsupported, nor is it attacking anyone, It's called CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, constructive being the operative word here. Having said that, I dont think every bit of constructive criticism would be safe, probably not, but if you choose your words carefully, you can still get a point accross and be just fine...maybe:)
I was there for the whole thing btw, I have seen this game at the peak of it's population, and if I remember right(which I do), Most of the players WANTED these changes some of you speak of as having ruined the game! Yes MOST. In fact, I was NOT part of that crowd that wanted the TOEs and AOs. I remember the conversations and arguments in-game about these changes, like it was yesterday. Well, it turned out they didnt ruin the game, the game is still fun to play. Really, the entitlists are what are trying to ruin the game! some of which ended up here in this forum!
So do you agree with some of these people in here that say the game is not worth even trying for free? Do you think we would be better off if the game went away? Do you support the blatent lies being traded here as if they were fact, at the expence of the players still playing the game? ... These are the things you are supporting here. Are you good with that?
So before you accuse me of mocking people here, maybe you should take a good look at what some of these people have posted that I am responding to.
Yeah Pitt, this is a good place to have theese kind of conversations for sure:)
I think it's awesome that the mods here let some of these conversations play out the way they do.
It's the players fault for the worst game changes that have killed off all the large squads, created these "soft captures" and have made the egos and personalities of a few unpaid admins critical to the function of the game? I could've sworn those systems were pushed by the company.
The game is not fun to play most of the time. If it was then it would not have so much trouble retaining or recruiting players. I play hoping an interesting operation or something like that will take place, which seems to be less and less often now. There are many other subscribers who say the same thing.
When people say "the game isn't worth trying for free" it's a fact. The game is free to try and many people don't bother with it. I have encouraged other people to try this game in the past but they are unwilling, or they do try and get put off by the bugs.
I guess that current players post here because if you say on the official forums that the game's mechanics are flawed, that it's systems of control, supply, and spawning are not working to create a positive or fun experience Doc will reply that you don't know what you're talking about, probably offer some barely-veiled insult and the remaining virtual Patton-wanna-bes in the community like Kilemall will jump in supporting him.
No one at the company believes that their own ideas have failed. They blame the gaming market, their investors and even their own subscribers(those who you refer to as entitled). We wouldn't be better off if the game went away but we would if the company changed their minds and focused on the game instead of other projects(not likely) or someone else took it over.
"It's the players fault for the worst game changes that have killed off all the large squads, created these "soft captures" and have made the egos and personalities of a few unpaid admins critical to the function of the game? I could've sworn those systems were pushed by the company."
Loaded question, in general though, No, it's not the players fault CRS went with these. But most everyone who was playing at the time just Loved the ideas and supported them. There seemed like only a few hundered of us(if that) that didnt like the direction that was taken..Ironically enough,IMO I think more players that loved the ideas left, than those who didnt.
Like I said before though, the changes didn't turn out to be total killers of the game. The thing that hurt this game more than anything IMO were the rage-quitters, people who thought they had great ideas only to have them shot down by the reality that they didnt own the game they wanted to change.
You people have to realise, this game is someone else's property...you pay a sub to reserve a prasona(s) to play the game with. Not to develope it. That's why I have no sympathy for people who are butthurt because their idea's weren't listened to
"The game is not fun to play most of the time. If it was then it would not have so much trouble retaining or recruiting players. I play hoping an interesting operation or something like that will take place, which seems to be less and less often now. There are many other subscribers who say the same thing."
Well you sure haven't helped much to recruit or retain players now have you. With all the fictitious slander you have generated or even facilitated with some of your posts..you have to admit it, you havent helped at all around here. Then I see you talking about the game in detail with others, in other threads and I find myself confused about where you stand in regards to the game. Does David downright hate the game and it's players? or does he just feel slighted by the devs and want to get their attention by downing the game at every turn? I haven't figured you out yet, but I sure hope to.
"When people say "the game isn't worth trying for free" it's a fact. The game is free to try and many people don't bother with it. I have encouraged other people to try this game in the past but they are unwilling, or they do try and get put off by the bugs."
Ok let me get this one straight, a FREE game is not worth even trying out, is a FACT?? You lost me here mate. you say you encouraged people to try this game yet just about every time I see a post from you, you have put this game and it's players in a negative light to say the least! TBH, most every post I see from you is pure hate! You do not fool anyone by stating otherwise...Pitty map! Antwerp! Hate !ect ect. I am expecting you to attack my post count or my join date next lol
"No one at the company believes that their own ideas have failed. They blame the gaming market, their investors and even their own subscribers(those who you refer to as entitled). We wouldn't be better off if the game went away but we would if the company changed their minds and focused on the game instead of other projects(not likely) or someone else took it over."
So how do you know this for sure? Do you believe everything you read? And what do you mean those who I refer to as entitled? Just for your information, those who I refer to as entitled, are just that. People who got mad because they think their ideas should have been listened to and then rage quit because of it...that's one definition for you. Now the definition you kindly inserted as my own(the subscribers) is wrong because, of course, I don't think everyone who subscribes feels entitled...just to clear that up:)
At least we did find something to agree on though, neither one of us wants to see the game go away.
You and I are not so different though, we both have a passion for the game. I believe this because, well, both of us are here talking about it. And I dont think you would waste your time here with me if you didnt.
I !Salute you nomatter what.
Sorry to say this wrath but the HC system never had great support I was there as well and saw the posts saying that whole squads would unsub if it went into the game. I was one of the many voices screaming that it would kill squads off and it did no question about that fact.
My postion is simple I supported the game for close to a decade and after years of broken promises and a sheer pig headness on Docs part to change the games development path I stopped funding them as a company. Do I want them to fold no I dont but I refuse to support them any longer unless they show the signs of change .
Does that mean that they have to revert to town based supply nope but lets at least be honest the current system has been given ample time and it has failed and they meaning CRS needs to fess up to it and make the changes needed . Like I said they dont have to revert to a old system of play they can devise a new one if that helps them manage thier egos on the subject. But until they show some signs they are listening to the customer and recognizeing the failures of the game my support will be witheld.
Think you're over-exagerating people's tones wrath and nit-picking posts. IMHO I think david's posts are well presented with his genuine opinions, he is not trying to seed dissent like you may think. Some recent negative actions by a dev are not allowed to be spoken of on the playskool forums so they are talked about here - and being negative actions there will be negative posts, currently there is not a whole lot to be positive about in the game because one side is still suffering the aftermath of having many leaders (tactical and strategic) leave the game. Give it a few more campaigns and hopefully people will come back allowing a strong force on both teams and some positive posts about the game once more.
We had years of CRS not listening that much to anyone, just doing equipment additions and bug fixes and folks didn't leave because they were not listened too then. But when they did a large set of gameplay changes (cap system, spawns, AO's) to 'fix' the camping problem, it destroyed the squads and the numbers in a year. Lots of people did like the idea before it came out, because they THOUGHT it would work. When it didn't, folks weren't happy and CRS wasn't smart enough to pull it back.
Folks don't leave all at the same time because CRS was doing what they had been doing from the start. Folks leave at the SAME time after a series of game changes because they don't like THOSE game changes. You can not like game change not just because they weren't your idea (oh please), but because you find it makes the game worse for you. And in this case, it seems the majority didn't like it and so many left resulting in the pop being a faction of what it was.
"But when they did a large set of gameplay changes (cap system, spawns, AO's) to 'fix' the camping problem.."
So what you are saying is forcing people to fight and reduce camping was bad for a wargame which is arguably about combat and the people that left the game where the ones who weren't interested in the fighting combat simulator side?
Sounds like a recipe for success fighting = wargame.
"..CRS wasn't smart enough to pull it back."
Smart enough to pull it back or unable to put it back? Again you put down CRS without really thinking about what was actually possible..oh to be unfettered by reality eh?
"..it destroyed the squads and the numbers in a year."
I'd actually say the game population has been going down over time anyway as per any MMO, let alone a 13 year old one - do the same number of people play DAOC who played in 2003? I'd also suggest there wasn't a mass exodus as you want to be the case and certainly not in major numbers alluded to, it was more gradual aka AO's stabilised the game....So potentially there may have indeed been benefits to the introduction of AO's which helpded slow decline in pop, as occurs in any MMO due to peoples lives changing (Marriage/divorce/school) as well as other things which might make people leave.
So this takes me to the point that you blame game change and bad design when actually it might be PEOPLE change and not CRS's decisions.