Can we get a major MMORPG that has NO PvP whatsoever?

Rydeson

Yes, I know this will probably get flamed to death.. but I'd just like to toss it out for others to discuss and see where the community stands..  For many years people have playing games like some form of PvP E-sport.. Rather it be Call of Duty, Starcraft, Couterstrike and now we have MMO's plugging in their E sport as well.. I'm so sick and tired of every MMO being released with PvP that NEVER gets balanced.. EVER.. This in turn has a direct effect on the PvE part of the game as well.. Just once I would love a pure PvE game that focuses on classes and roles as they pertain to the PvE mob and NEVER have to conform to PvP balance problems..  Squishies can be squishies.. and Tanks can be Tanks..... 

Something to think about

teakbois

EQ, Vanguard

They have no competitive PvP whatsoever and do not get balanced around PvP

Comaf

Originally posted by teakbois

EQ, Vanguard

They have no competitive PvP whatsoever and do not get balanced around PvP

I'd add LOTRO to that, along with DDO, since the pvp in both are just silly aside type antics.

Rydeson

Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by teakbois

EQ, Vanguard

They have no competitive PvP whatsoever and do not get balanced around PvP

I'd add LOTRO to that, along with DDO, since the pvp in both are just silly aside type antics.

Yeah.. EQ was nice.. but very outdated and too many changes since it's early days.. LoTRO I forgot.. As for DDO and Vanguard.. far from being major mmo's.. I was hoping for something new tho, cuz it seems that every game today is trying to find ways to squeeze in esport mechanics..  but thanks

DjinnAjit

FFXI was not PVP at all.  Eventually they put in a sad PVP style match play, but it was pure PVE.  Same with LOTRO...very successful pure PVE.

Drakxii

yeah... it's been done... a number of times...

3-4thElf

FFXIV had no PVP at all.

But no pvp games tend to suck.

I'd like to see a PVP game come along and not worry about balance honestly. It'd be kind of refreshing to see priests not be tanks and mage aoes actually feared by those who have to close in range to mess them up.

Alas,pve or pvp mmorpg companies give in to "balance" and that's the cancer of MMORPG development.

Because even in the PVE-only games a bard looks at his lute and screams "WHY CAN'T MY DPS MATCH THE WARRIOR WITH A 2 HANDED SWERD!? MY LUTE IS POWERFULZ TOO!"

ShakyMo

This would be excellent....

Then we can tell the usual anti-pvp whiners to "bugger off and play that" then

Axehilt

Originally posted by 3-4thElf

Alas,pve or pvp mmorpg companies give in to "balance" and that's the cancer of MMORPG development.

Because even in the PVE-only games a bard looks at his lute and screams "WHY CAN'T MY DPS MATCH THE WARRIOR WITH A 2 HANDED SWERD!? MY LUTE IS POWERFULZ TOO!"

You know the result of a company NOT being infected by that "cancer"?   A MMORPG of everyone wielding 2h swords.

Ramanadjinn

+1 of the opinion that PVP balancing isn't really ruining your game.

i feel balance is something developers have a hard time with in every MMO.  some of the PVE only ones would indicate that they haven't an easier time at all. (hi vanguard)

simple fact of the matter is when things go incredibly screwy and you point the finger at PVP being in the game as the cause you are missing the real issue -- poor game developers or a poorly designed game.

i would not, but could theoretically make the argument that games which take pvp balance into account typically have better PVE balance than those who do not.  the argument would be hard to counter.  i am only pointing out that saying "pvp balancing ruins pve balance overall in MMOs" isn't something you can easily prove and i'm unwilling to believe it is the case.

 

teakbois

Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

+1 of the opinion that PVP balancing isn't really ruining your game.

i feel balance is something developers have a hard time with in every MMO.  some of the PVE only ones would indicate that they haven't an easier time at all. (hi vanguard)

simple fact of the matter is when things go incredibly screwy and you point the finger at PVP being in the game as the cause you are missing the real issue -- poor game developers or a poorly designed game.

i would not, but could theoretically make the argument that games which take pvp balance into account typically have better PVE balance than those who do not.  the argument would be hard to counter.  i am only pointing out that saying "pvp balancing ruins pve balance overall in MMOs" isn't something you can easily prove and i'm unwilling to believe it is the case.

 

Its not so much as balancing, because in PvE games you dont need perfect balance, you need the classes to have fun and a purpose.  Nerfs are often necessary in MMORPGs but are never fun.  However, when its needed you can admit its for the better of the game and take it.  When said nerf happens because of PvP, its frustrating beyond belief, because there isnt a good reason for that nerf.

Rydeson

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

+1 of the opinion that PVP balancing isn't really ruining your game.

i feel balance is something developers have a hard time with in every MMO.  some of the PVE only ones would indicate that they haven't an easier time at all. (hi vanguard)

simple fact of the matter is when things go incredibly screwy and you point the finger at PVP being in the game as the cause you are missing the real issue -- poor game developers or a poorly designed game.

i would not, but could theoretically make the argument that games which take pvp balance into account typically have better PVE balance than those who do not.  the argument would be hard to counter.  i am only pointing out that saying "pvp balancing ruins pve balance overall in MMOs" isn't something you can easily prove and i'm unwilling to believe it is the case.

 

Its not so much as balancing, because in PvE games you dont need perfect balance, you need the classes to have fun and a purpose.  Nerfs are often necessary in MMORPGs but are never fun.  However, when its needed you can admit its for the better of the game and take it.  When said nerf happens because of PvP, its frustrating beyond belief, because there isnt a good reason for that nerf.

TY.. this pretty much sums it up...  I would like to add in, that it isn't just the nerfs for pvp reasons.. but classes, roles and skill totally left out of the game because there is no PvP use for them such as the days of kiting, or monk pulling.. etc etc.. Can you imagine a class that can snare, root and dot your melee class into oblivion..  EQ druid vs warrior..   Time for a dirt nap mr plate wearer.. LOL

Adamantine

Vanguard did just that.

It had some PvP servers in the beginning, but honestly PvP was always so bad that they never have been very popular.

UsulDaNeriak

if you invent something new additionally, which is not the same raid/group dungeons/events for endgame, i am with you. however a game like GW2, where all the money "wasted" on PvP and heart-quests, is used for very flexible and versatile DEs, also in huge open world dungeons, could work. add some extended non-combat features with longevity and you are done.

well, they could have pvp servers with a fully separate skillset and other mechanics. if there is a business case for such an investment. i doubt there is one. if they dont invest a lot in separate sets, they will see deserted pvp-servers. so better no pvp at all.

Beowulfsam

Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak

if you invent something new additionally, which is not the same raid/group dungeons/events for endgame, i am with you. however a game like GW2, where all the money "wasted" on PvP and heart-quests, is used for very flexible and versatile DEs, could work. add some extended non-combat features with longevity and you are done.

well, they could have pvp servers with a fully separate skillset and other mechanics. if there is a business case for such an investment. i doubt there is one. if they dont invest a lot in separate sets, they will see deserted pvp-servers. so better no pvp at all.

Kinda this, if the only concern is that PvP influences PvE, separate skillset solves the problems (GW1 did that).

 

And yeah, a lot of players want something else other than just PvE for endgame. And on that note, I find it strange that so few games do the PvP part at least semi-right. I mean, why is it so hard to do 4-5 battlegrounds at release, give some PvP only rewards and possibly make somekind of scoreboard....it should take much less resources to make and people keep replaying them..win. (in PvE once u get the gear u don't want to PvE anymore - and unless it's very low drop chances nowadays u usually get gear pretty fast, which means people get bored very easily).

 

So I'd say no to the question. Unless yeah, you come up with some VERY amazing dynamic neverending PvE.

Volkon

Guild Wars 2 would be the newest game that comes the closest to what you're looking for... the PvP is completely segregated from the PvE world to the point that, like GW1, they can balance them separately without worrying about the other side. The PvE world is completely PvP free, although the PvP players can earn bonuses for the PvE world.

UsulDaNeriak

i highly doubt that in GW2 the PvP does not impact PvE. the skillsets are way to weak. this stinks about pvp in mind when balanced.

its not bad, and better than most other games, but without pvp at all it could have been better for a pure pve-game. but perhaps Arenanet did just what every gameprovider is doing these days: watered down skillsets.

ShakyMo

Does diablo 3 have pvp?
Are they constantly balancing it?

also I think most of the "waagh pvp rebalancing killed my pve" moans are wow or ex wow gamers taking their prejudices from blizards ridiculous attempts at 1 vs 1 balance into other games.

Finally pvp is not the root cause of rebalancing - progression tiered raiding gear orientated end game is.
New raid comes out
Pveers start owning pvpers with their phatlewt
New pvp set comes out
Abilities become overpowered with the new pvp set
Rebalancing occurs
The raiders have a good old whinge.

If gear was static, once the balance was good enough, it would stay good enough.

Vesavius

OP, I agree. The market is crying out for a pure PvE game. I was hoping that pathfinder would be the one to take that road but it seems even they have decided that factional PvP is the way forward, which is a major off putter for me.

I like the model in GW2, simply because it keeps the PvP seperate and optional, but any game that makes me PvP to access PvE content is just a no go for me these days. It's an honest deal breaker.

It's a major reason I will be be checking out FFXIV when it relaunches with 2.0. I just wish it hadn't launched in such a mess and had actually proven that a pure PvE game has the chops to find a huge market.

 

I personally am generally very sick of this PvP pollution, both in terms of gameplay and what it has done to the p[layer culture.

FredomSekerZ

I hate esports pvp in mmos. Why the hell is a game with a persistant, huge world using pvp in small scale maps in an effort to "balance it" and "make it fair and skill based".

A pve only game would be awesome, but i'd also like for mmos to use the actual "mmo" for it's pvp. It seems only Planetside gets the idea.

3-4thElf

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by 3-4thElf

Alas,pve or pvp mmorpg companies give in to "balance" and that's the cancer of MMORPG development.

Because even in the PVE-only games a bard looks at his lute and screams "WHY CAN'T MY DPS MATCH THE WARRIOR WITH A 2 HANDED SWERD!? MY LUTE IS POWERFULZ TOO!"

You know the result of a company NOT being infected by that "cancer"?   A MMORPG of everyone wielding 2h swords.

Nope.

The opposite would be true if developers build worlds instead of blocks of HP to interact with.

Everyone should be a 'utility' character, but in their own unique way.

dreamsofwar

I think the idea of having pve and pvp only mmo's is a good idea. I love pvp but the thing that bothers me is how balancing is implemented and how it is difficult to keep a class balanced for both pve and pvp without nerfing its performance in one or the other. 

Gear is also a problem in mmo's where it can far outweigh skill. A pve only mmo also has a much stronger community, like LOTRO. I found that the atmosphere in that game was great and something i have experienced in no other. Having said that i love the atmosphere in pvp orientated games too, the thrill of wondering who you're going to fight next. 

As previously mentioned in a previous post in this thread though, pvp being balanced around small maps on an open world mmo is a problem. World pvp is something i thoroughly enjoyed and its a shame that its been on the decline for quite a while now.

mymmo

Yes! It would be really fun to have that kind of mmo to look forward to. Its so fun to see how the implation of PVP in mmos costs alot of resources from the devs and in the end the "players" are never ever happy with it and complains and complains in the forum about it. Later on when the devs listen to the "players" the loud masses have already moved to the next thing Its so silly.

bcbully

I heard the new "Spread The Love" Carebear xpac is gonna be amazing.

nomss

FFXIV?

nomss

You should change the major to, AAA.