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Matt Higby speaks on anti-cheat measures ingame
Agricola1
Member UncommonPosts: 4,977
Go to 4:30 on this vid CLICK, Matt answers alot of questions concerning their anti-cheater methods.
People whine alot about cheaters and hackers, but if they reported the cheats to the customer service as often as they bitched to other players there would be a whople lot less cheating.
I hope that they maintain a 24/7 presence as Matt stated, since cheater scum are the biggest threat to any FPS game ... more so for an MMOFPS.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Comments
I wish it was that easy, this is free to play which = I hack get caught make another account. IP blockers are laughable as you can always mask your IP. The ONLY way I see this working is they have a subscriber server for the dedicated players whom pay a monthy fee. Beyond that, I see another APB(all points bulletin) hack fest going on.
You can't stop hackers if it cost them nothing to start again. I am excited for this game don't take me wrong, but this was the deteriment to the first planetside and that was a monthly. Time will tell here, but free to play fps... The more I think about the hacking that will go on in this game, the worse I feel about playing it.
edit: I should note its great they are going to have admins online 24/7 to watch for such things, but nothing stops that same guy being banned, remake account and start again. I hope it works, but we are not talking about 1 server with 1000 people, we are talking probably lots of servers with thousands on, that's going to be tough to track when the cost to have "admins" doing just this task , most companies won't even consider paying for.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
I agree with you, although Higby does speak about having a "Membership" in this vid at 19:25 CLICK.
I'd be interested to know what this entails and what benefits it will bestow.
As for cheaters and hackers, the most people can do is report them, that's just a fact of gaming. If everyone report genuine hackers they would be dealt with, and most of the people whining about hackers just suck at FPS, in my experience.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Sadly hack prevention in free to play games is a nearly pointless battle unless the company is really and truely harsh and cracks down hard on violations.
Most of these companies are reluctant to bring out ban hammers without plenty of justification. Free to play games walk a fine line between keeping the community happy and keeping out the bad guys. If the community begins to feel as if there are wrongful bans then the host could feel as if their cash flow is at risk.
I agree this need to come up with something better then IP ban's as for 24/7 support.. I hope its alot better then the support we recieved in Planetside 1... Hopefully since it will be a new game and seems like it will be more popular (more money for SOE) this time they give it the attention it needs.
I don't know if Planetside is compatible with VAC 2 but if it is I sure wish they would use that to help them weed out the hackers. Hell I wouldn't even mind if the rumor that they were using Punkbuster was true...
They also need to re-do there report system.. In Planetside 1 it was not very well done like in it was in other MMO's.
EDIT: I thought this was some new interview but it's the same old one that we all have seen before.. Nothing new same old stuff about we will have 24/7 cs support and a petition system in place... But they said the same thing in planetside 1. Meanwhile guys were leveling from 1 to 25 floating in cloak suits sniping people with amp's... Reporting them did nothing..
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
I've said it before ... past experience dictates laughable Hack prevention. I've only got Planetside to draw conclusions from, they are now compounding the issue by making it Free to play. They have an uphill battle to prove that this will be better supported than Planetside.
We will only be able to tell when the game is launched , Action ... not words are what matters when recovering from past mistakes.
If they really wanted to prove they were serious .... they would be on the offensive against sites such as AA and DamnCheaters. Wishful thinking .... but I'd love to see one of the gaming industry giants break it off inside the cheating industry.
Well there was one mention of having people that have access to those hack sites, (which is a step in the right direction) be there where the hacks are being handed out. But, still free to play is just too easy. They love the LoL model by Riot Games and it's a good model to follow in a free to play market. However, they have hacking issues still, the only determent are to those that care about their accounts.
I have no doubt that the community will help (being planetside is about group conquest), but you will ALWAYS get those "I just want to f with people because I can" and in fps, thats more times then not. I was admin of a few battlefield servers, I would ban/kick at least 10 people a night. If you think about a night, that is about 6 hours and 1.3 an hour. Now times that by say 1000 players on a planetside server ;P ouch!, now it will again be a bit different and it's good if they are actually doing these things. But as stated by others, SOE has allot to prove and if APB promised the same thing (the original APB) and didn't deliver and that was a payed for game, I just don't know about FTP only servers.
I say, give us a dedicated montly subscriber server or servers. If where willing to pay a monthly like before, give us that perk. Will it kill the larger community? Maybe maybe not, but in the end the idea is to make money. If I have to deal with a ton of hackers or even 1 a day is too much, I will just move on.
my 2 cents anyways.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
I agree with your guys ideas above.. They do need to be more proactive, alot more proactive...
As far as im concerned SOE is the worst developer in the market as far as stoping hackers... Hell they even had there account system hacked me and 24.6 million peoples accounts were compromised, and 12,000 CC #'s were stolen.. My debit/credit card had to be canceled due to this...
So as far as im concerned they need to step it up big time, they seem to be much to lax in this department. Not only do we as players have to deal with the hackers they allow to run around ingame we also have to pay for their issues in Real life... Thats not good.
For a so called big name in this market they sure do let alot of hackers effect their playebase... If it wasn't for me wanting to play a MMOFPS (and Planetside being the only one out) I wouldn't even been giving SOE the time of day due to that CC crap I had to deal with.
Needless to say I will be using a pre-paid CC to pay for all SOE games and transactions in the future... Fooling me twice would be on me..
People will say that im being to critical of SOE, but im sorry when your wrong your wrong.. SOE needs to step it up, and get tough with these hackers..
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Well they do have key codes now, I bought one and implemented it on my account. These do work, (same thing banks use), but alas I am more worried now about the in game hacking issues then anything. I really don't think they have a clue how bad it will be.
On a good note, buddies told me that gw2 has daoc type of sieging, while not the mmofps i would like, if ps2 fails in the anti-hack department, at least we have an awsome gw2 seige to take place of it.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Well atleast they have something better inplace for the outside hacking.. I guess only time will tell about the game hacking..
And btw im with you on GW2, im trying to put together some cash for a new comp so I can play that and PS2 at max. Kinda hoping GW2 gets delayed a few weeks longer, I don't think I will be ready by the end of AUG..
BTW chain something tells me I asked you this before... Are you or should I say were you TehChain in Planetside? If I asked you that before my bad.
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
They can mac address ban which means you would have to spoof your mac address (avg hacker wouldn't do this) or buy a new network card/router/modem. They could also hardware ID ban (for those that don't know you take your PCs hardware and generate a unique ID that cannot be changed unless you change something in your PC like HD or GPU, CPU or MOBO) .
Also anyone who thinks GW2 wont be a hackers heaven you're gonna be in for wake up call. Any MMO that has no monthly fee is gonna draw hackers in.
gw1 had hacks for pvp and some of the grinding elements of the game.
but yes F2P games are always hit the hardest by scripts simply because there is no real risk to it.. oh no they banned my 9th account owell ill just use my 10th account to start up again.
while everygame tries to prevent scripts its a very uphill battle. simply because where there is a means there is a way to script something. people openly pay for scripts for games like WoW so they can 1 hit people (small genital players need scripts to boast about their skill)
be interesting to see how they combat scripts in PS2.. as every f2p fps i have played and all the b2p as well have always had some sort of script to replace actual skill.. 24/7 support will only bandaid the issue though sadly. even games like battlefield with their punkbuster which costs something like 1mill usd just to install in to a game not counting future patches... is near useless
will say one thing though... as long as PS2 doesnt use gamegaurd they will have won a small victory against scripts... rofl
This is the stuff I was talkng about.. These are the steps they need to take agianst hackers..
If a guy is willing to go through all this just to hack a game then so be it, but it won't be cheap for him atleast.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Neither of those are really all that effective eithier...
- Alot of NIC drivers allow the user to configure the MAC address. So if you have one of those, easy enough to do.
- Due to the hardware abstraction layer, the end point application can't interact directly with the hardware which means the hacker has a means of feeding the application false info. Even easier, if you play from within a virtual machine, you just change some of the VM settings and viola, it looks like a completely different machine to the end application.
- But more criticaly, outside of the US...and especialy in Asia...a large number of players ARE actualy playing on different machines every time they play...since buying time on computers in internet cafe's is more common then folks who own thier own hardware.
The only really effective means of banning is to tie the account to a credit card or paid for game card, that way at least the hacker burns something of financial value to them when they get banned.
Don't think you understand what I ment. They cannot see your NICs mac address since they see nothing past your modem network wise banning a modems mac address is better as the avg hacker wont know how to change it without buying a new modem.
Also yes theres tons of reasons to use hacks/bots in GW2 and just like WoW people will do it and more so because of no monthly fee.
The problem i have with this as well...... and the PS2 development team needs to think about this as well....
In games like league of legends and combat arms. Almost everybody gets reported for hacking.
If your good, people will just assume that you are hacking and report you. Like maybe 1 out of 200 reports are actually legit,
LIKE FO REALZ ! IF YO GOOD NUFF TO BEAT MEZ YO MUST BE HACKZ! (sarcasm)
So actually going thru the reports to find the legit claims will be an epic headache
http://medias.luna-atra.fr/gw2/char_tool/CT_imageGenerator.php?pseudo=Centurion Mikal&lang=EN&code=&code=TSwtLDUsLSw2LC0sMjksOSwyMiwyMywyNCwtLDEwMiwzNiw4MSw4NCw4OQ==
Ummm... MAC addresses are only visable on the local network segment, it's not transmited over TCP/IP (MAC address operates on the Data Layer not Network Layer)....so the server will NEVER see your MAC address unless it's located on the same network segment as your ROUTER/Modem. The only MAC address that the developer would have access to is from the game CLIENT querying the local machine's configuration to ASK for it....however as I said, alot of NIC drivers allow the end user to configure the MAC address, so that's pretty easly defeated....assuming the hacker is even playing on thier own hardware and not using an internet cafe.
The only advantage in using a MAC address over an IP address in banning is that MAC addresses don't get assigned dynamicaly through DHCP and they don't get NAT'd at a Firewall....meaning that they won't end up banning the wrong people accidently along with that IP address.... the disadvantage is that the MAC address is only visable on the local network segment, meaning they have to rely on the client to report it...and if the client is compromised, you can't trust anything it tells you. Even if the client wasn't compromised...many NIC's allow you to configure the MAC address (instead of using the one that's burned in by the manufacturer)...so that's out as well.
About the only thing they can do with any degree of reliability is account ban....and that only has sting if the account is tied to something of value ... like hours invested in developing a character, for advancement based games and/or credit cards/paid game cards.
For years companys have been getting your modems mac address everytime you log onto the game. As I said which you ignored mac address banning will get the avg hackers you will never catch the pros so don't even bother trying.
So two of the posters in this thread mentioned the biggest F2P game out there but failed to really bring it in to perspective for those that dont play it.
League of Legends.
I have played LoL since closed beta, and it has been free to play since launch. I have NEVER once encountered a hacker in LoL in the 3 years I have played it. Not only that, I have only heard of hacking going on twice, and both times the exploit/hack itself was dealt with within a few hours, and the hackers/anyone that benefited from intentionally exploiting, were swiftly banned.
So for your argument to be valid, the next day or hours later, the same hackers would have another account to continue doing what they were doing, right? Well wrong in this scenario, because Riot has never been re-hacked on the same issue/exploit.
Play some F2P games before mentioning that every F2P game has hacks.
Just because APB was a failure in many reguards, hack(er) identification/dicipline being a one of the largest, doesnt mean that every F2P game will be a hackfest.
Planetside had hackers from Day 1... Sure they were not as rampat as other FPS games but it still took SOE a while to weed them out...
And then Planetside went free to play (sorta) when it offered the reserve program which meant anyone could dl the game and play for free, up to a certain level... Which didn't matter to a hacker cause they could be godly at lvl 2 and do things that I could never do at cap level, like float, fly, teleport, have no COF, etc... The reserve program(Free to play) opened the hacker flood games and they came pouring into Planetside...
So now maybe you can see how some of us that actually played Planetside are a little worried that now that it's going free to play from the jump it will be a hackfest.. Since judging by Planetsides past free2play meant free2hack...
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
You sound like one of them omg i can't do that and you can so you're a hacker people.
No offense, but majority of hacking accusations are false from people who are not as good and think that person cannot be better then me so they must be hacking.
And you sound like you don't have a clue with your talking about.
I played this game from the jump on the Jahari server and transfered to Emeral after the merger. I have seen the uber killers (Dreamer, OrgeX, TehChain, Dogtag, Weare138, etc) and went toe to toe with them.
I have also seen the hackers who hover 20 feet in the air and snipe people with a freaking AMP on burst. If you ever PLAYED this game you would know that sniping with a amp is possible, but diffently not on burst. I have also seen grunts outrun magriders and reavers and guys warp you to their location and then kill you..... But I guess that was just because they were uber and better then the guys I mentioned above and not because they just hacked....
After I get my beta invite (if I ever do) I'll gladly post my name so you can check my stats out since you think I just suck and call all players that kill me hackers.. But since I have been so critical of SOE I will wait untill if I get my invite.
I will say this, I was far from a bad player... more like one of the best with stats to back me up when planetsidestats.net was up and running. So I know what people can and cannot do in this game. And YOU CANNOT fly after reavers in a max...But I guess I just mad at that dude because "OMG I can't do that"...
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Does the server send blanket information about where players are? Yes? Then Wallhacks are possible. /thread, move on. Message me when they manage to do what world of tanks has done. Because the excuse of "it's not possible" is BS now.
While I do share your concern in hacking in PS2 (Because it was quite rampant in the first, I completely agree there) I am willing to wait and see on this one.
One major thing you have to remember is that hacking in PS1 wasn't rampant because it was impossible to stop, the fact is SOE just didn't care. Planetside launched and was only live for less that a year when it's team was removed and a skeleton crew was put on it. There was litterally no one there to really do anything save a handful of mods.
It seems SOE is serious about PS2, having been to the offices myself I can tell you for a fact that they are putting a LOT of bank on Planetside 2 being a success. This game is the proof that their new engine can do everything they boast and it is pretty much their attempt to make themselves the MMO powerhouse they once were.
If anyone can not afford to let their game get over-run with hackers at this stage in the game, it is SOE.
Actually, in an interview once higby stated that the system only sends your locational information to people who are supposed to see you (when talking about cloakers and the hacks used in PS1 to always see them).
So it might be possible that the server does not send your locational information to people without line of sight on you.
This
People gotta remember other SOE games used unreal engines or older ones that sent this kind of info. Example is EQ used to send all data about a zone when it loaded where mobs were etc everything was sent just from zoning in. How is that relevant you ask ? Well with the new engine they made themselves they were able to customize it anyway they want. Most hacks are because of flaws in the game engine and they will be able to fix any flaws easier because they know the engine. SOE needs PS2 to suceed because this engine is what they're marketing as the next generation gaming engine for EQ Next and future SOE games not just MMOs.