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The real problem with the MMO community.
azrael466
Member Posts: 365
Keep in mind, this is the community as a whole. I am not singling out any specific group or the player base of any specific there. THIS ENTIRE POST IS A GENERALIZATION. Just because YOU do not agree with it does not make it any less true to my observation, and just because you agree with it does not make anyone who disagrees an idiot or anything like that. This is a generalization based solely upon my oberservations and experiences with the community.
Originally, I was going to take the time to think about this, do a little research and use big fancy mumbers and statistics and the like. But frankly it's just not that important to me nor is it that big of an issue so I'm going entirely off the cuff here. As such this might be a little messy.
That said, one problem I see in every gaming community, every single last one is this sense of playing the game for everyone BUT yourself. Every MMO I've been apart of had the community turn away from playing to have fun, and playing to spend time with friends you might know online or completeing your own goals and it turns to a giant pissing contest. You see this and signs of it everywhere.
For one example, take the 'sparkle pony" WoW released ages ago. Now, dismiss your personal feelings about the model - I, myself, dislike the model..I would never buy that mount. However, try to think back with me, what was the main complaint about it? SEEING, IT, EVERYWHERE. People started to insult and reject people from groups just for having a mount, not because they bought it but because they bought it and it was popular - To the point where the cynical brit made a video bashing it, which no doubt just increased the vile spewing towards it since a majority of his fans can't seem to think for themselves but thats neither here nor there. That, in of itself, while a problem isn't what I'm getting at. What I'm getting at is that, had the model been a 0.00000000000000000000005% chance drop from a boss, any boss, hell even just a random named mob everyone would be pissing themselves trying to get one. Why? Not because they like the model, but because its a status symbol.
Thats what the MMO community has turned into, a series of collection status symbols. Its no longer about having fun, its no longer a hobby. It's all about trying to get the best gear, and rarest items so that people will stroke your E-peen for you.
Now, while video games as a whole are built entirely on the idea of progression, you beat a boss to get better stuff to beat a bigger, harder boss, repeat until infinity. MMO communities are one of the few communities of players - along with FPS - who will actively spew vile insults at another for not having cool enough looking gear, because frankly thats all it is. It doesn't even have to be a single item, it's that status that it represents, be they insulting over DPS meters, your build in a game, the type of character you use, its turned into one big giant pissing contest of status.
Playing
Nothing
waiting for
The secret world
Played
WoW, DCU online, star wars: the old republic, city of heroes, city of villains, everquest, plenty more I'm probably forgetting or aren't worth noting.
Comments
So is life. Get used to it. Lot people feel the need to show how better they are then others in whatever way they feel they can. Most people on the internet lack self control and don't care about the effects of their actions. I play for fun but even saying that I like to beat people in video games. It is goal/objective. Beating AI feels pointless but to beat a player means more. I do not rub it in their face nor tell them how much they don't know how to play. If anything I give them tips to make them better players but if they listen that is up to them. Yeah most people don't respect anyone on the internet. It's just a fact of life now. Thank god for mute/ignore features.
Guild Wars 2 is going to move away from that model. I hate grinding for gear that proivdes an advatage over someone else. It's like saying that people who spend 10 hours a day playing should be more powerful than people who spend 2 hours a day playing. The developers use the tactic of gear grinds as actual content. In WoW; a new PVP season is grinding for a new set of pink underwear with +1 strength on it. Back on the hamster wheel you go. No one wants to be disadvantaged in a PVP environment. The developers exploit this to keep the hamsters running on the hamster wheel. The end result is botting, exploitation, cheating, AFK, undergeared alts and the all popular twink community. Who the hell wants to PVP in that cesspool of garbage.
While it won't give you more power, having a rank whatever(10?) armor set will still be a simbol status, or hardest hardmode armor skins. Will still be about having something rare and showing it off.
The problem with the MMO community? It's not really a community. Once upon a time, there might have been an all-games MMO community. Now, it's more of a population. The main issue is that there is little socialization. It's very possible to go through entire play sessions without ever interacting with anyone else. How can you have a community in the population does not interact?
The prevalent MMO business model is about packing in large numbers to make money. I won't complain about that, because without that money incentive, no games would be made. The games produced under the current model are about convenievce and gratification. The only people getting a social experience are those who seek one, and who are fortunate enough to encounter others of like mind.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
Great observations, and you're gonna get bashed at it. However, you haven't realized this: life is no different.
I'm very active in the rider community (motorcycles). Cars drivers constantly hate us in North America because
A. we are shit tons faster than nearly all cars, all supersport bikes are faster than every production car, including supercars
B. we are small and have the ability to bypass congestion
I've had people intentionally try to ram me off the road for passing them.
Now, about the rider community themselves, it appears they also care too much about what other riders do. There is a term called "squid" which is generally an insult for anyone who rides a GSXR and doesn't wear rider gear. Frankly, I wear gear about 75% of the time and don't give a rats ass if someone else doesn't, but once in a while you have this rider that is full out insulting other riders about lack of gear.
I could name hundreds of other issues with the rider community and the idiotic drivers we deal with, but all in all it goes down to one thing: people need to care more about themselves than they do others.
I believe the condensed version of what your saying is "Lack of respect/courtesy for other members in it [The MMO Community]".
Yes, its a generalisation and yes its not accurate. However, from appearances it is accurate because that behavior is more apparent, also the industry has been capitalising on it [quick and easy way to make money].
Most of it stems from Player versus Player. A generalisation and not actually at PvP gamers, but rather the mentality thast prevalant in PvP games [competition]. Smack talking turned into segregation[players distancing themselves from players they didn't like] then turning into Elitism [ie. largely due to player forgetting about the bigger world and focusing on their own smaller world because its simply nicer to them]. None of that is actually abnormal or unnatural, happens in and out of gaming in all walks of life.
The problem is actually caused due to the accessibility/virtual nature of medium. People in MMOG's are thrown into effective chatrooms where there is little distinction between virtual constructs and Real people not to mention lack of consequence for virtual actions. So the last point of the previous paragraph is never effectively dispelled. Then it just becomes of matter 'Giving what you get' and spreads like a fire depending on how flammable[vulnerable to inflammatory treatment] the players being hit by it are. Like a fire, it ends up creating a lot Smoke [Troll posts, spam, grief play] that obscures the original purpose of the game [to both players and developers] and that obscurement causes the developers to develop the game around that behavior [whether it fits with the project or not].
Which ultimately ends up creating a mood or appearance across the community that it is what the community is like/about.
If your wondering whether thats right or not for the community:
Well thats another matter. It is a problem because its causing a trend in the community which is counter-productive to a sizable portion of the community's goals [Gaming, Entertainment, Fun][with a sub community within it preferring it] . However, the MMO community [Gaming implied otherwise the online Stock Market traders would be considered MMO's] is about gaming with lots of other players over a Network not necessarily about 'communicating' or being 'civil' unless the 'Game' calls for it.
^
Wrong. The issue stems from us being humans straight up. Some of you really need to get out more often, you'll see the same problems in MMOs in the real world in nearly everything.
Well isn't that the whole idea of "keeping up with the Joneses"?
People like having their ego stroked because people like to feel superior.
Not to say everyone is like that but that mentality definitely exists, especially in the gaming world it seems.
Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape
This.
You may aswell sum up all humans in the same way. You would be wrong to do that as like the MMO community, everyone is different.
Yeah, I do think epeen comes into it, and it can ruin the game in a variety of ways, for others and for themselves because when they feel a game is lessening their percieved "better _____ than all of you scrubs" they throw tantrums, because they've "wasted their time." Like playing video games isn't generally a waste of time. I won't say that its the only problem, because I think entitlement, growing older, amatuer critics, the gold-tinted nostalgia, and hipster-esque jaded "vet" ~ mentalities play a lot into it well.
:Ia I just think the really Negative Nancy's out there need to relax, and try being more positive.
You need to read and comprehend posts a little better before responding to them. {Underlined a sentence in quote of my post}
Also, No need to be insulting because I posted a reply in the thread.
[Implying that I don't know reality, ie. don't get out enough. Honestly I don't get out much but regardless I have been out plenty and human behavior isn't a science nor defined by a 'current' trend]
You're in for a world of disappointment if you think GW2 is going to be anything different with the community.
If GW2 takes away a given form of "status" as it's found in other games, the players will find another to take its place.
It's the players who foster and perpetuate the "status", "elite-ism", "ego-stroking" behavior... and they'll find some way to do it, in any game, whatever the system. Count on it.
It's because many people these days don't play for the experience of playing. They play for the pay-off, for the reward. I can't remember the last time I saw someone looking for a group to do some uncommon dungeon or instance in a MMO just for the enjoyment of doing it. It's all about "what's the payoff?", "am I being rewarded enough for taking the time to do that?". The MMO culture has become one about "getting stuff", and not so much about "doing stuff".
And the reward is, for many, getting that rare drop and strutting around town in it, showing it off to everyone. Some are appeased enough doing that. Some take it to another level by bashing and talking down to anyone who doesn't have it... which, in my opinion, is just an indication that those people are more insecure than most. Obtaining the rare item isn't validating enough, they have to rub it in others' faces to feel really "accomplished" about it.
I'm all for that. Asthetic rewards instead of power.
Simply saying this is an MMO community issue ignores the fact that elitism and social classes exist in the real world too.
Like another poster already said, these are human community issues, not just MMO issues. People drive Porsches and Corvettes even though a Toyota would get them where they needed to go for far less money. The reason people buy high priced cars/purses/clothing? To show off thier real world epeens.
I believe its the environment that turns players into asshats. WoW is renown to have one of the most obnoxious community in the gaming world. I strongly believe that the power gear grind is what is causing people to behave in inappropriate ways. If people want to parade around town to show thier achievements that's all fine and dandy. Trophies serve this purpose well. Power gains however creates inequality and that causes abnormal behaviour.
The real problem with the mmo community is the games themselves.
You have disgruntled old mmo'ers such as myself who have seen the genre de-evolve into single player rpgs with a chat box. Instead of evolving and branching off to have a diversity of styles of games. I stress diversity. A diversity in style of mmo games would solve a lot of problems. I am still waiting on my hardcore PVE game. And do not give me that arrogant egotisical rant about how that style of game wouldnt work, because it would do just fine, just not wow numbers. The people who like these 90 day'er themeparks go though mmo's like a fat chick goes through a box of twinkies. It torques my bolts everytime i hear these people even complain about an MMO thats truely trying to be differnt. I dont care what you like I just want a diversity of games to choose from, hardcore ffa pvp, to hardcore pve, to themparks, to sandparks. Diversity is the solution to this problem.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Well, that's what tends to happen when you build your reward design around a loot base.
(Did "turned into" make anyone else blink? Like it was ever different?)
P.S. OP, I think you might find some compelling reading in the psychology of status seeking, though. As other people observed, it's more a "human" issue than mmo issue.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Appearance and status symbol's will have very little importance to the non-RP GW2 community. The game is designed for fun or heavy competition. The heavy competition environment will get you what for winning first place? A glowing stick that randomly generates pink butterflies? Do you think the hardcore competitors will give a damn? Let me tell you something. The hardcore competitive gamers couldn't care less about these things. They would PVP naked or change the configuration settings to change all the models in the game to floating white boxes.
Guild Wars 2 will have a very strong RP community. That's where you'll want to be if strolling around town waving your glow stick to everyone is your thing.
What do you mean "has turned into"
EQ back in 99 had an inspect feature. Inspect features are by definition, an E-Peen stroking feature. The genre has always been like this. It isn't a new thing