You are a total WOW fanboy and here is why I disagree with what you have said :
User Interface: Wow's interface takes outside mods to become usefull and GW2 is simple enough that it does not require anything to make it better
System requirements: Of course WoW's system requirements are lowr the game is F***ing 7 years older. The graphics in WOW look like puke comapred to GW2 so your point is moot
Higher skill cap: Are you kidding? As a WoW mage you have to press 1-3 buttons depending on how fancy you want to get. LMAO. No contest here you actually have to play your toon in GW2 or you die. I could go make a sandwich and come back in wow and still be alive.
Cash shop design: WoW cash shop? Either way GW2 has no subscriptionfee and their cashop looks good to me.... GW2 wins.
Customer Support: How do you know what customer support will really be like in GW2 its only had 3 Beta's. From what I have heard GW1 has good customer support and GW2 should even be better. The only reason you need support in WOW is usually because your account has been hacked.
PvE endgame: We dont have a clear picture what GW2 end game will be like because no one has gotten that far. But if you mean that GW2 won't have and endless treadmill gear grind I am totally fine with that.
I am not really concerned with the outcome of this debate. You can argue as long as you want, but you still do not succeed in convincing the other side that you are right since the subject of discussion is...well...subjective.
As to the red sentence, I would like to ask if you ever played a WoW mage in arena? If so, what rating were you able to reach pressing 1-3 buttons?
The OP was saying that there is a higher skill cap in WoW. Arena is only one aspect of WoW and involves a meta game with the FOTM builds and the best gear (this has nothing to do with skill really). Besises I was talking about PVE. Arcane mage > AB , AB , AB , AM (yes this is very hard to pull off (sarcasm)
wow is the past GW2 is the future , i'f your not sick and tired of wow style questing than what does Gw2 offer you?
GW2 is the antidote to a lot of past issues that some of us who beta tested wow were sick of like 5 + years ago.
If wow is okay in your book than what do you need change for ?
Sorry but i want off the gear grind , i don't want tokens (welfare gaming ) .....this is the same type of thinking that goes into everybody gets a trophy........well F that ....so while i admit blizzard was smarter buiness wise than most if not all the MMO industry I wouldn't play wow or any other quest based mmo , even if it gave me a dollar for every button click. Years of this questing crap honestly is starting to make grinding seem appealing by comparison , at least the facade would be removed.
Dunno why people fail to understand this, if a game forces you to do a bunch of qualifications just to have access to content......i.e. form a raid group etc. get the right peices of the puzzle together ( classes) than in my my mind the game is treating you like your an idiot.
Bottom line is GW2 is fundamentally better structured game, you can add all the expansions to wow you want it changes nothing its just more of the same, more gear grind so you can........do more gear grind......which makes pvp the only really worthwhile thing worth doing in wow endgame.
I'm sick of WOW. I don't like Kung Fu Panda or Pokemon.
GW2 is costing me about 3 months of wow subs, paid $48, and I never have to buy a sub again. Even if I buy MoP I have to subscribe as well, you don't even get a free month.
Arnt you guys sick of the same old themepark crap yet?
Its 2012 and we are still buying the same crap we bought a decade ago. Yeah they keep slapping on a new look but its all the same stuff.. nothing new.
You would think one developer would have put out a game with solid player made content by now. Thats the only type of mmo that has real longevity imho.
Themeparks are fun dont get me wrong... but you can only go on the same ride so many times dont you think. Changing the name of the ride doesnt make it more fun does it? Riding the ride at a dozen different amusement parks loses its appeal doesnt it?
Someday a team will put out something truly amazing.... someday.
Arnt you guys sick of the same old themepark crap yet?
Its 2012 and we are still buying the same crap we bought a decade ago. Yeah they keep slapping on a new look but its all the same stuff.. nothing new.
You would think one developer would have put out a game with solid player made content by now. Thats the only type of mmo that has real longevity imho.
Themeparks are fun dont get me wrong... but you can only go on the same ride so many times dont you think. Changing the name of the ride doesnt make it more fun does it? Riding the ride at a dozen different amusement parks loses its appeal doesnt it?
Someday a team will put out something truly amazing.... someday.
I agree with you. I am looking forward to GW2 because it lets me be an explorer again. I miss the glory days of UO in its first 2 years.
I don't think anyone will ever go back to a model that has as much sandbox, though. It's because true sandboxes will not pull in the big subscription numbers any more. Companies now want big corporate cash-cows, and that means grabbing the money of casuals, who, ostensibly, need immediate, Pavlovian rewards.
User Interface: How is taking up 60% of your screen real estate in mods good UI design because the game allows the UI to play for you rather than giving you only the important information like GW2's? GW2's UI is minimalistic compared to WoW's. Even the default UI in WoW (which is utter crap without mods) is more cluttered than GW2's. Good UI design is as minimalistic as possible. That's Game Design 101.
No. WoW's UI is extremely modable. You can make it at minimalistic or as convulted as you want. That's Great Game Design 101, and you can absolutely NOT fault WoW for it's UI. It's base UI sure, but not in it's entirety, it blows over other MMO out of the water.
Higher Skill Cap: NO. Just NO. GW2 requires way more effort to play than WoW. There is a lot more strategy involved in everything from WvWvW, PvE, and SPvP. Proper dodging and condition removal alone puts the skill ceiling way higher. In WoW many classes can spam the same abilities over and over with the ocassional difference in rotation from pure situational use skills. More hotkeys does not equal higher skill cap, if this were the case FPS and Fighting Games would have low skill caps, but we all know that's not true. WoW is one of the easiest MMOs to hit the skill ceiling on, at which point you are mostly just grinding gear and relying on FoM combinations to win over your opponent.,
No. Seriously. no. Maybe GW2 meta game will evolve, but it's not at that point yet.
Cash Shop Design: GW2 is free to play so of course it's going to rely more heavily on the cash shop. At least we aren't paying $25 for Sparkle Ponies... yet.
Heh, you're already willing to concede the inevitable. But yeah, it's a none issue either way.
PvE Endgame: Maybe. WoW has a lot more of it that's for sure and it has raiding. I can understand giving credit to WoW here, but GW2 has plenty of potential here. I do find GW2's PvE to be more enjoyable thus far and everything is essentially endgame (past the now easy mode starter zones anyway) with the scaling down system. It's a bit hard to compare "endgame" when very few of the population has experienced GW2's "endgame" anyway. What about the PvE aside from the endgame too?
We'll see. I'm doubtful that GW2 compares. No new games have particularly good end-games, it always takes a few years... and nothing I've seen from GW makes me believe otherwise. GWs PvE is "enjoyable" only because its new and different, not because it's actually compelling content. It'll wear off fast.
Arnt you guys sick of the same old themepark crap yet?
Its 2012 and we are still buying the same crap we bought a decade ago. Yeah they keep slapping on a new look but its all the same stuff.. nothing new.
You would think one developer would have put out a game with solid player made content by now. Thats the only type of mmo that has real longevity imho.
Themeparks are fun dont get me wrong... but you can only go on the same ride so many times dont you think. Changing the name of the ride doesnt make it more fun does it? Riding the ride at a dozen different amusement parks loses its appeal doesnt it?
Someday a team will put out something truly amazing.... someday.
Arnt you guys sick of the same old themepark crap yet?
Its 2012 and we are still buying the same crap we bought a decade ago. Yeah they keep slapping on a new look but its all the same stuff.. nothing new.
You would think one developer would have put out a game with solid player made content by now. Thats the only type of mmo that has real longevity imho.
Themeparks are fun dont get me wrong... but you can only go on the same ride so many times dont you think. Changing the name of the ride doesnt make it more fun does it? Riding the ride at a dozen different amusement parks loses its appeal doesnt it?
Someday a team will put out something truly amazing.... someday.
Look, I'm a sandbox fan too, but let's be honest here. Sandboxes have not exactly been spearheading innovation. Every "new" sandbox game that I have played, except for Eve, seems to just be trying to live up to UO...which came out BEFORE Everquest even founded the themepark sub-genre.
I would love to play an awesome, fresh, AAA sandbox, and hopefully ArcheAge will be it...but let's not act like sandboxes are any more inherently innovative than themeparks are.
And really, I think GW2 is one of the most innovative themeparks to come out since WoW.
I'm sure there are a lot of others "debatable" things, but these are the top 5-6 that come in my mind that are definite from what we know about GW2.
Vanilla WoW had none of this at launch either. Comparing a game that has been out for 8 years to a new game is pretty unfair imo. Give GW2 8 years before you start making comparisons..
User Interface - Completely disagree. The only leg-up WoW has is the flexibility with their UI through mods. Else their default UI sucks.
System requirements - When you create a beautiful, artistic game you want it to be seen at its best or near best. Not on 8-year old systems that majority of gamers do not even use anymore. Steam statistics speaks leaps and bounds on this.
Higher skill cap - What does this honestly matter if the game is "fun"? If I can have as much fun in 50 levels that I can in 85 does it really matter? If having a larger number is that important to you, then you are likely in the right place to begin with playing with MegaBlocks instead of an Erector set.
Cash shop design - If you are talking purely astetically then I must ask - are you blind?
Customer Support - WoW may have the upper hand in this category given the experience they have in the genre. I personally have never dealt with Blizzard support nor ArenaNet so I have no opinion on this.
PvE endgame - Why not say WoW is superior because it has the Troll race? Guild Wars 2 was designed NOT to have end game PvE grind like WoW, TOR and every other MMO out there. So saying WoW has better PvE end game is like comparing apples to oranges. One could argue that the content GW2 does have is multitudes better than WoW simply because of the different approaches you can take with them versus the same ole crap week in and week out.
I do not come as a WOW fanboy. There are tons of things I dislike about WOW, but GW2 choose to follow WOW in a lot of features and design. It's another themepark, but WOW imo is still the better MMORPG choice of what's avaliable until the end of this year.
As a veteran, hardcore MMORPG player I also did not buy into the hype and voting pools I've been seeing that are in favor over WOW. There are tons of reasons why GW2 might look like most wanted MMORPG on these forums and I'll name some.
#1 Guild Wars 2 is new, upcoming MMORPG, WOW is 8 years old. Just like when you get a new g/f, its so exciting!
#2 Guild Wars 2 is only B2P without subscription. [mod edit]
#3 Majority of the posters here probably are waiting and hoping for GW2 to be the next big thing since "their last MMORPG failed them" or they simply failed to entertain themself in it.
#4 Many are not as experienced in the genre and are easily "bought" into the hype. I honestly do like to see GW2 launch strong and get bizillions of sales, but the more experienced gamers like me will take advantage of the GW2 launch date. There will be a full month before MOP comes to also see how well this game will perform and get further info about it.
Comparing the two WOW is superior over GW imo in:
User Interface
System requirements
Higher skill cap
Cash shop design
Customer Support
PvE endgame
I'm sure there are a lot of others "debatable" things, but these are the top 5-6 that come in my mind that are definite from what we know about GW2.
I've played mmorpgs for over a decade and i know that GW2 is the superior choice. Where are the facts in my post? Oh wait you didnt give any in the first place. This thread is so full of fail its not even funny.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
ROFL 1 action bar with 10 skills and thats it? In WOW I'm using around 25+ different skills for PvP.
I hope for the best of GW2 and I really hope it will be the next big thing. One thing is for certain I won't be spending $ on both and WOW is so far the winner.
What does the number of skills have to do with skill cap? You keep using those words, "Skill Cap". It doesn't mean what you think it means.
Having many viable skills creates a higher skill cap than few viable skills if everything else is equal. The Guild Wars 2 dodge mechanics adds though a lot to GW2's skill cap.
ROFL 1 action bar with 10 skills and thats it? In WOW I'm using around 25+ different skills for PvP.
I hope for the best of GW2 and I really hope it will be the next big thing. One thing is for certain I won't be spending $ on both and WOW is so far the winner.
What does the number of skills have to do with skill cap? You keep using those words, "Skill Cap". It doesn't mean what you think it means.
Having many viable skills creates a higher skill cap than few viable skills if everything else is equal. The Guild Wars 2 dodge mechanics adds though a lot to GW2's skill cap.
this assumes the act of improving one's whack-a-mole reflexes with skills is what makes up the majority of the skill curve doesn't it?
PVE ENDGAME : From what I've seen and heard about the endgame in gw2 it is a lot different than wow endgame.
not the endless grinding anymore in a few areas of the game just to get more epic and stronger gear. and only a few area's in the game where you still get enough exp. and rewards to continue.
through the downleveling feature of gw2 you can play at level 80 in every area even starters , still earn exp and rewards . also the dynamic events with multiple outcomes and lines gives a lot of replaybility in those areas.
after level 80 also you keep gaining exp to get skill points that you by than can use to get new looking gear. not more epic gear. also you don't need big armies raids to do so.
so on endgame i would say that the whole world is endgame to go and play in gw2 and therefor better than in wow with just a part at the end still availble to play for exp and rewards.
system req: well like the rest said. wow is over 8 years old with 8 years old graphics, sure runs on more pc settings and a lot older pc's but doesn't make it a superior game. a friend of mine played gw2 beta on a old pc. as old as he had on the time of gw1. he had to play on lower graphics settings but still he could play it not very okay level and in the last beta's it became better and better to play.
Skillcap: gw2 you need to move around and use skills rather to stand still to be able to cast skills. also each proffession has a great variety of builds to support, to dps or else. using up more variety of skills in proffesions than wow where you use just a few at the end and just the strongest boosted by epic gear mostly.
Having one or two ways to play a proffesion in the end is in my eyes completly not better than have so many ways like in gw2 to play a proffession.
cash shop: the gem shop in gw2 is made in a way that you can buy from it even without using real money . that is rather a leap forward than a leap backwards. and what they sell in the shop doesn't make you any better than before . it is not paytowin in my eyes. for that everyone is free to use.
so in the end . I think you're are a wow fanboy still that doesn't see the improvements of gw2 in comparison to wow. so wow can't be superior to gw2 ever.
Remove the WOWtard WOW community from the game and give me back all day Alterc Valley fights and I may consider playing WOW again over any of the better MMO's out there
ROFL 1 action bar with 10 skills and thats it? In WOW I'm using around 25+ different skills for PvP.
I hope for the best of GW2 and I really hope it will be the next big thing. One thing is for certain I won't be spending $ on both and WOW is so far the winner.
What does the number of skills have to do with skill cap? You keep using those words, "Skill Cap". It doesn't mean what you think it means.
Having many viable skills creates a higher skill cap than few viable skills if everything else is equal. The Guild Wars 2 dodge mechanics adds though a lot to GW2's skill cap.
false, having more skills lowers the skill cap because with more skills=more solutions to problems.
When you have fewer skills you gota think and learn when and how to use your skills.
When you have a skill for every situation then it becomes less of a skill game and more about who can click the skills faster game. And there are programs who do it better than you.
Comments
wow is the past GW2 is the future , i'f your not sick and tired of wow style questing than what does Gw2 offer you?
GW2 is the antidote to a lot of past issues that some of us who beta tested wow were sick of like 5 + years ago.
If wow is okay in your book than what do you need change for ?
Sorry but i want off the gear grind , i don't want tokens (welfare gaming ) .....this is the same type of thinking that goes into everybody gets a trophy........well F that ....so while i admit blizzard was smarter buiness wise than most if not all the MMO industry I wouldn't play wow or any other quest based mmo , even if it gave me a dollar for every button click. Years of this questing crap honestly is starting to make grinding seem appealing by comparison , at least the facade would be removed.
Dunno why people fail to understand this, if a game forces you to do a bunch of qualifications just to have access to content......i.e. form a raid group etc. get the right peices of the puzzle together ( classes) than in my my mind the game is treating you like your an idiot.
Bottom line is GW2 is fundamentally better structured game, you can add all the expansions to wow you want it changes nothing its just more of the same, more gear grind so you can........do more gear grind......which makes pvp the only really worthwhile thing worth doing in wow endgame.
I'm sick of WOW. I don't like Kung Fu Panda or Pokemon.
GW2 is costing me about 3 months of wow subs, paid $48, and I never have to buy a sub again. Even if I buy MoP I have to subscribe as well, you don't even get a free month.
I do like the fact that Wow's UI can be customized or "re-skinned" with LUA tools (I love the mod Dominos).
But out of all the things you listed, I think that is the only one that WoW executes better than GW2.
Dont care for either...
give me more sandbox!
Arnt you guys sick of the same old themepark crap yet?
Its 2012 and we are still buying the same crap we bought a decade ago. Yeah they keep slapping on a new look but its all the same stuff.. nothing new.
You would think one developer would have put out a game with solid player made content by now. Thats the only type of mmo that has real longevity imho.
Themeparks are fun dont get me wrong... but you can only go on the same ride so many times dont you think. Changing the name of the ride doesnt make it more fun does it? Riding the ride at a dozen different amusement parks loses its appeal doesnt it?
Someday a team will put out something truly amazing.... someday.
Well I haven,t been able t play GW2 yet, but I'm very hopeful with the information out there. WoW on the othe hand? really ?
I would say there are at least 15 MMORPG's out there i'd rather play than WoW
Shiftyt
I agree with you. I am looking forward to GW2 because it lets me be an explorer again. I miss the glory days of UO in its first 2 years.
I don't think anyone will ever go back to a model that has as much sandbox, though. It's because true sandboxes will not pull in the big subscription numbers any more. Companies now want big corporate cash-cows, and that means grabbing the money of casuals, who, ostensibly, need immediate, Pavlovian rewards.
You want hardcore sandbox go play Eve.
The world we know is going away http://www.graystatemovie.com/
Look up Agenda 21 as well.
Look, I'm a sandbox fan too, but let's be honest here. Sandboxes have not exactly been spearheading innovation. Every "new" sandbox game that I have played, except for Eve, seems to just be trying to live up to UO...which came out BEFORE Everquest even founded the themepark sub-genre.
I would love to play an awesome, fresh, AAA sandbox, and hopefully ArcheAge will be it...but let's not act like sandboxes are any more inherently innovative than themeparks are.
And really, I think GW2 is one of the most innovative themeparks to come out since WoW.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I've played mmorpgs for over a decade and i know that GW2 is the superior choice. Where are the facts in my post? Oh wait you didnt give any in the first place. This thread is so full of fail its not even funny.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Played WoW since vanilla and I have already had more fun in GW2 than I did in WoW
Dito. So QFT.
Having many viable skills creates a higher skill cap than few viable skills if everything else is equal. The Guild Wars 2 dodge mechanics adds though a lot to GW2's skill cap.
What can I say ... Some people really should stick with WoW
this assumes the act of improving one's whack-a-mole reflexes with skills is what makes up the majority of the skill curve doesn't it?
edit: missed the all else being equal part.
WoW forums <--------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------> Gw2 forums.
Can you guys stop flooding the GW2 forums with chattering and bitching about wether wow sucks or is better than gw2?
At this very moment there were like 4 WoW vs Gw2 topics in the threadfeed ffs
Rawr.
Epic Troll/Wow Fanboy thread.
And look at how many took the bait!
OP made no valid arguments to support topic title. Therefore, i suggest discussing it in the following topic:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5169739/thread/358941#5169739
just so on main mmorpg.com page, it says my topic's title, not op's
i'm smart
PVE ENDGAME : From what I've seen and heard about the endgame in gw2 it is a lot different than wow endgame.
not the endless grinding anymore in a few areas of the game just to get more epic and stronger gear. and only a few area's in the game where you still get enough exp. and rewards to continue.
through the downleveling feature of gw2 you can play at level 80 in every area even starters , still earn exp and rewards . also the dynamic events with multiple outcomes and lines gives a lot of replaybility in those areas.
after level 80 also you keep gaining exp to get skill points that you by than can use to get new looking gear. not more epic gear. also you don't need big armies raids to do so.
so on endgame i would say that the whole world is endgame to go and play in gw2 and therefor better than in wow with just a part at the end still availble to play for exp and rewards.
system req: well like the rest said. wow is over 8 years old with 8 years old graphics, sure runs on more pc settings and a lot older pc's but doesn't make it a superior game. a friend of mine played gw2 beta on a old pc. as old as he had on the time of gw1. he had to play on lower graphics settings but still he could play it not very okay level and in the last beta's it became better and better to play.
Skillcap: gw2 you need to move around and use skills rather to stand still to be able to cast skills. also each proffession has a great variety of builds to support, to dps or else. using up more variety of skills in proffesions than wow where you use just a few at the end and just the strongest boosted by epic gear mostly.
Having one or two ways to play a proffesion in the end is in my eyes completly not better than have so many ways like in gw2 to play a proffession.
cash shop: the gem shop in gw2 is made in a way that you can buy from it even without using real money . that is rather a leap forward than a leap backwards. and what they sell in the shop doesn't make you any better than before . it is not paytowin in my eyes. for that everyone is free to use.
so in the end . I think you're are a wow fanboy still that doesn't see the improvements of gw2 in comparison to wow. so wow can't be superior to gw2 ever.
Remove the WOWtard WOW community from the game and give me back all day Alterc Valley fights and I may consider playing WOW again over any of the better MMO's out there
false, having more skills lowers the skill cap because with more skills=more solutions to problems.
When you have fewer skills you gota think and learn when and how to use your skills.
When you have a skill for every situation then it becomes less of a skill game and more about who can click the skills faster game. And there are programs who do it better than you.