Fixed this a bit. Pen and paper RPGs have never been all about the rewards. Early computer RPGs like the Ultima RPGs have never been about gear grinds either. This has been introduced by games like Diablo or the whole EQ clone style of MMOs.
Early RPGs have always been about living stories told by a GM while interacting (aka "Role Playing") with other players. Save the local farmer, or the princess, or even the world. That's what Role Playing stands for in the name of those games. It's only later that it was turned into a gear grind.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Fixed this a bit. Pen and paper RPGs have never been all about the rewards. Early computer RPGs like the Ultima RPGs have never been about gear grinds either. This has been introduced by games like Diablo or the whole EQ clone style of MMOs.
Early RPGs have always been about living stories. Save the local farmer, or the princess, or even the world. That's what Role Playing stands for in the name of those games. It's only later that it was turned into a gear grind.
That isn't entirely true. You were always saving the world, but still hoping for a few shinies. They weren't dealt out in the quantities that they are in CRPGS nowdays. The story was king, but the trinkets you might get still provided some motivation.
Fixed this a bit. Pen and paper RPGs have never been all about the rewards. Early computer RPGs like the Ultima RPGs have never been about gear grinds either. This has been introduced by games like Diablo or the whole EQ clone style of MMOs.
Early RPGs have always been about living stories told by a GM while interacting (aka "Role Playing") with other players. Save the local farmer, or the princess, or even the world. That's what Role Playing stands for in the name of those games. It's only later that it was turned into a gear grind.
+1 for this
In PnP RPGs main focus is based around the story line and roleplaying aspect rather than anything else. Sure there was rewards, but they were mostly "nice looking" stuff or something that would give you some skill that other class have. Definatelly not a core.
Greatsword will remain Greatsword which would have 2d8 for ex. It wont have 4d20 later on anyway.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Simplest way to put it. Wow's pvp = gear. While GW2 pvp = skill. Simple as that. I can see a lot of wow players afraid to get off their high horse of gear and come play GW2 and be just average compared to how they were in wow due to their gear. They may say GW sucks bc they finally realized there no elitest in pvp like they thought.
I like large sclae PvP, but from my experience with it, no one listens to anyone else and everyone thinks they are the best armchair general to ever grace whatever they happen to be playing. WvWvW sounds fun to me but I'm still unsure about it. AV is my favorite BG in WoW, but that gets boring after a few hours. Still think it's the best map assuming there's actual PvP going on and not everyone just zergs to the boss for the quick win/loss.
I'm concerned about how the combat feels too. I've heard different things. Like a dude here said it was floaty. That's also one of the things I like about WoW. The control and responsiveness is awesome.
I also like to be rewarded... doesn't necessarily have to be gear, but something other than a buff or what have you would be nice.
In my experience, it doesn't matter if it's world pvp or BGs, there are always a ton of armchair generals lol. In fact I came back to WoW for a short period and was reminded of how much everyone cries in BGs.
As for which is better? It's hard for me to tell at this point. I have so much more experience with WoW, and only about 4 or 5 days of GW2 experience. What I do like about the BGs (sPvP) in GW2 is that, so far, it's a much more care free environment. I'm sure that will be different in the tournament mode (or whatever it's called). However, in the non ranked sPvP, I didn't notice anybody really complaining and crying because they were losing. I'm sure this has to do with the fact that winning won't get you gear to make you stronger.
As a matter of fact, everything about the game so far feels very carefree. You just hop on and have fun and (so far) nobody is stressing about anything. For example, when I was a noob in WoW, and still kind of a noob to MMOs in general, I saw someone getting beat down by a mob. I decided to help them out and got yelled at for kill stealing. This will never happen in GW2.
IMO, just buy GW2 and try it out. Think of it as buying a single player game. The way I see it, I enjoy it so far, but if 3 months down the line I realize I don't like it as much anymore, at least I didn't pay any sub fees.
As a side, I notice a lot of people say movement feels floaty. I can agree with that, however, if you move with the mouse and not the keyboard it is barely noticable. This is something I feel should somehow be fixed if possible because not everyone moves with the mouse, but it's drastically better than GW1 (which I couldn't bring myself to play simply because of the movement).
Originally posted by FringeFanBoi Simplest way to put it. Wow's pvp = gear. While GW2 pvp = skill. Simple as that. I can see a lot of wow players afraid to get off their high horse of gear and come play GW2 and be just average compared to how they were in wow due to their gear. They may say GW sucks bc they finally realized there no elitest in pvp like they thought.
I don't see how people actually believe this. Gear in WoW isn't an automatic win. Sure maybe against a dude in greens. But a "tier" difference isn't gonna make a big difference. Guys in conquest gear still can and do get smashed by guys in honor gear.
Having gear differences doesn't turn all the players into drooling half wits that don't know how to play.
Also, from what I've heard here, there are still gear differences in the WvW which is mainly what I'm interested in.
Originally posted by FringeFanBoi Simplest way to put it. Wow's pvp = gear. While GW2 pvp = skill. Simple as that. I can see a lot of wow players afraid to get off their high horse of gear and come play GW2 and be just average compared to how they were in wow due to their gear. They may say GW sucks bc they finally realized there no elitest in pvp like they thought.
Which may be the thing that many dont like. Some people like high horses. Some people like gear-based PvP. Yet GW2 dont have gear progression in PvP and some people need to make them up for lack of gameplay skill. Still they say that MMO need to have gear progression to make PvP feel interesting, which is strict opinion, rather than fact. Hence the dislike of GW2 PvP.
I play Dota/HoN/Dota 2 for ex. which dont have gear-based PvP at all and it still feel goddamn addictive, interesting and fun as hell.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
They're a lot different in the way they are designed and the way the gameplay feels. I've found that I'm a lot worse at GW2 PvP for whatever reason. My friends seem to be catching on quicker than me though.
I'd say the thing that I tend to struggle with the most while making the adjustment is condition awareness and recognizing what skills are being used based on recognizing enemy animations. I feel overloaded with information still. There are just so many skills to get used to seeing that it's been rough to miss dropping that stun or using that dodge at the right moment to counter X whatever and then have to think back and realize what a noob I was.
I think it's just going to take more of an adjustment period than I thought. It certainly takes more of an adjustment than SWTOr did. SWTOR was basically WoW with lightsabers when it came to PvP. GW2 is not like that at all.
Is it better or worse than WoW PvP? I don't know. I'm still trying to get to a point where I can even have a solid opinion about it.
Do you guys agree that the fact that there is also gear cap in WoW and that in RBGs and arena at certain rating, practically everyone has similar level of gear puts the argument that WoW's PvP is all about gear in question?
I would say that casual PvP (which for me is non-rated BGs, Tol Barad, arena at low rating) is to a large extent influenced by gear.
However, in hardcore PvP (=rated BGs, arena at higher rating), gear plays almost no role since everyone is on a very similar gear level. Such PvP is mainly skill based and to a very little extent also gear based.
I totally agree.
But I also think that when you get an alt to max level, it sucks to have to grind gear. And then to grind it again every season. Or if you miss the beginning of a season, people have better gear than you for a good while.
Their system rewards people that are there on day one of the season more than it should imo.
It's not all about gear, of course. However, you must get to the skill-based part, first and I think games should be fun from the get-go. I'm not going to play something for dozens of hours just to get to the good part, when I can play GW2 and get to the good part right away.
These 2 are probably my biggest reasons for dumping WoW PVP. 1 healer + 1 DPS can take on an army because of the healer. In battlegrounds there are multiple healers and the gameplay consists of healers healing healers healing healers. It gets ridiculous to the point of being funny. No gear grinds means botting and AFK will be irrelevant therefore non existant.
Do you guys agree that the fact that there is also gear cap in WoW and that in RBGs and arena at certain rating, practically everyone has similar level of gear puts the argument that WoW's PvP is all about gear in question?
I would say that casual PvP (which for me is non-rated BGs, Tol Barad, arena at low rating) is to a large extent influenced by gear.
However, in hardcore PvP (=rated BGs, arena at higher rating), gear plays almost no role since everyone is on a very similar gear level. Such PvP is mainly skill based and to a very little extent also gear based.
I agree but it takes a longtime to climb the ladder to get up and play competatively in wow as with GW2 you can do it from day 1. Some people may like the climb others not. After that it mostly comes down to combat which I enjoy gw2 a lot more but it's a personal preference.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Do you guys agree that the fact that there is also gear cap in WoW and that in RBGs and arena at certain rating, practically everyone has similar level of gear puts the argument that WoW's PvP is all about gear in question?
I would say that casual PvP (which for me is non-rated BGs, Tol Barad, arena at low rating) is to a large extent influenced by gear.
However, in hardcore PvP (=rated BGs, arena at higher rating), gear plays almost no role since everyone is on a very similar gear level. Such PvP is mainly skill based and to a very little extent also gear based.
Maybe, but it take long time to cap-out PvP gear and rating, and most people wont bother to PVP with alts for this sole reason. Never again will i Grind and get steamrolled straight for 3+- months only to stay competitive and so that i can say "oh well, now you can see who is better skilled xD".
Times maybe changed though. Didnt PVPed in WoW since early days of WotLK.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
comparing it to the PVP in WoW isnt a good thing imo, i've always felt that the PVP in WoW was a complete cop out, dumbed down, gear based, if you don't have X item level in PVP gear you can't compete. Player skill doesnt really come into it. And i think thats probably the biggest failure of any game that involves PVP. GW2's PVP is completely different, a more 'mature' version of PVP, i'd say, but even then, it still has its limitations, when GW2 has been out for a few months, maybe then we'll get a 'real' idea of how well its working for them, although i have no intention of being a 'guinea pig' so i'll wait to see what the reviews say, GW2's big thing is the PVP, the whole W v W v W thing, WoW's is actually the whole PVE + CO-OP dungeoneering thing, PVP is just something that seems a bit 'tacked on' in WoW. So i am waiting to see if GW2 delivers on the PVP, because if it doesnt, then theres no point in getting the game.. ever.
My advice from someone who doesn't play WoW and isn't planning on buying GW2 - don't listen to people on this forum. This site is basically a glorified GW2 fan site and it will be hard to get a straight answer. Read up a little bit on what GW2 has to offer and if you think it sounds worth the price, buy it, and if not, don't. Only you know what you are looking for and only you know what games you like.
Personally I hated PVP in WoW, it was a friggen joke and did more to destroy PVP in MMO then it did to help it. DAOC was hands down the best game when it came to PVP or I should say RVR. There was no instance crap and balanced numbers and it was unpredictable which made it fun.
Then WoW came along and there intent was to do something like wow and add a land mass specifically set aside for Faction based pvp. However instead of doing this they went the route of instances and because wow became so popular every MMO went the same direction thus PVP was destroyed for a long time. Where only now see a new era of PVP that is non instance PVP.
Part of the fun of faction or RVR type of PVP is that the balance of power can shift from moment to moment. One moment you're faction or realm is slaughtering the enemy because you out number them or because you're tactics are better. Then at the drop of a hate the enemy suddenly rallies there forces and come back in full force.
The other aspect is being in small groups and coming across that lone player and killing him, or even being that lone player and suddenly walking straight in to a large force of enemy players and trying to get to safety when you come accross the large forces.
Now I'm not saying Guild Wars 2 will live up to DAOC. However I hated PVP in WoW and thought it was for carebares who thinks pvp should be balanced and fair. I don't want fair even balanced PVP. I want to suddenly be out numbered or out gunned. I want to be defeated not because the other side is better geared but because there tactics were way better. Which was another element that made DAOC so awesome it wasn't really about numbers (though it did help) it was more about tactics and team work. Many battles that where won in DAOC had less to do with numbers and more to do with pure tactics. I was in battles where my realm was out numbered and we won not because whe suddenly got more players but because we were smarter and used better tactics. This is what is lacking about WoW. Also the fact that you could run through players in WoW was another factor this hurt tactics as well.
Bottom line is WoW plain sucked to no end in terms of PVP.
Originally posted by sirphobos My advice from someone who doesn't play WoW and isn't planning on buying GW2 - don't listen to people on this forum. This site is basically a glorified GW2 fan site and it will be hard to get a straight answer. Read up a little bit on what GW2 has to offer and if you think it sounds worth the price, buy it, and if not, don't. Only you know what you are looking for and only you know what games you like.
Sounds about right to me. All I ever see around here is GW2 this, GW2 that! Even in every other game's sub forum.
Still teetering on the fence. I've watched a few videos, looks like it could be fun for a month which I guess is kinda a good deal.
IDK, maybe if I get a lucky drop in D3 I'll buy it. Still gotta buy 2 copies of MoP though.
Both games are based off completely different visions...
Ones about gear and ones about equal ground and skill (flame on, i have no feelings).
That was the one thing I loved about Gw1 way back in the day... and before falling into the gear grinds of other games I forgot the fun I had just pvping to pvp.
Really you should be having fun while playing... you shouldnt be mindlessly grinding points for one more piece of gear..
Both games are based off completely different visions...
Ones about gear and ones about equal ground and skill (flame on, i have no feelings).
That was the one thing I loved about Gw1 way back in the day... and before falling into the gear grinds of other games I forgot the fun I had just pvping to pvp.
Really you should be having fun while playing... you shouldnt be mindlessly grinding points for one more piece of gear..
but, to each their own as always
Speaking of GW1, it was more about purchase grind. If you only had 1 campaing purchased (like me) you had zero chance to be competitive in pvp, because you didn't have access to all skills.
Both games are based off completely different visions...
Ones about gear and ones about equal ground and skill (flame on, i have no feelings).
That was the one thing I loved about Gw1 way back in the day... and before falling into the gear grinds of other games I forgot the fun I had just pvping to pvp.
Really you should be having fun while playing... you shouldnt be mindlessly grinding points for one more piece of gear..
but, to each their own as always
Speaking of GW1, it was more about purchase grind. If you only had 1 campaing purchased (like me) you had zero chance to be competitive in pvp
Well... that would be like playing wow without the xpacs and expecting to be competitive.
If you only had vanilla would be fighting BC players in outlands gear
or being in BC gear fighting people with wotlk gear
and the worst.. wotlk gear vs cata gears.
obviiously if you dont continue to buy xpacs for any game you will have less choices or ways to progress your characters.
Both games are based off completely different visions...
Ones about gear and ones about equal ground and skill (flame on, i have no feelings).
That was the one thing I loved about Gw1 way back in the day... and before falling into the gear grinds of other games I forgot the fun I had just pvping to pvp.
Really you should be having fun while playing... you shouldnt be mindlessly grinding points for one more piece of gear..
but, to each their own as always
Speaking of GW1, it was more about purchase grind. If you only had 1 campaing purchased (like me) you had zero chance to be competitive in pvp, because you didn't have access to all skills.
GW2 might be the same.
Ah, you mean opposed to the $15 per month purchase grind in WoW, not to mention the obligation of buying all expansions to stay "on top"?
Gotcha!
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Both games are based off completely different visions...
Ones about gear and ones about equal ground and skill (flame on, i have no feelings).
That was the one thing I loved about Gw1 way back in the day... and before falling into the gear grinds of other games I forgot the fun I had just pvping to pvp.
Really you should be having fun while playing... you shouldnt be mindlessly grinding points for one more piece of gear..
but, to each their own as always
Speaking of GW1, it was more about purchase grind. If you only had 1 campaing purchased (like me) you had zero chance to be competitive in pvp
Well... that would be like playing wow without the xpacs and expecting to be competitive.
If you only had vanilla would be fighting BC players in outlands gear
or being in BC gear fighting people with wotlk gear
and the worst.. wotlk gear vs cata gears.
obviiously if you dont continue to buy xpacs for any game you will have less choices or ways to progress your characters.
True, true. In that sense both GW1 and WoW were pay to win games. GW2 has a good chance to be as well.
Comments
Fixed this a bit. Pen and paper RPGs have never been all about the rewards. Early computer RPGs like the Ultima RPGs have never been about gear grinds either. This has been introduced by games like Diablo or the whole EQ clone style of MMOs.
Early RPGs have always been about living stories told by a GM while interacting (aka "Role Playing") with other players. Save the local farmer, or the princess, or even the world. That's what Role Playing stands for in the name of those games. It's only later that it was turned into a gear grind.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
OP it depends on what you want.
PvP about skill and skill alone.
Or PvP about gear with a portion of skill mixed in.
Both games are going to / already have balance issues.
Both games have roughly the same flow and pace to combat.
WoW has more variety in terms of instanced battleground and arenas, but GW2 has WvW.
All the instanced PvP in GW2 is about skill and skill alone.
All the PvP in WoW is about gear with a portion of skill mixed in.
WvW in GW2 is slightly about gear and level, as having better gear and a higher level will help immensily on the road to 80.
GW2 doesn't have a sub fee. WoW does.
So, really, it depends on what you want!
That isn't entirely true. You were always saving the world, but still hoping for a few shinies. They weren't dealt out in the quantities that they are in CRPGS nowdays. The story was king, but the trinkets you might get still provided some motivation.
+1 for this
In PnP RPGs main focus is based around the story line and roleplaying aspect rather than anything else. Sure there was rewards, but they were mostly "nice looking" stuff or something that would give you some skill that other class have. Definatelly not a core.
Greatsword will remain Greatsword which would have 2d8 for ex. It wont have 4d20 later on anyway.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
In my experience, it doesn't matter if it's world pvp or BGs, there are always a ton of armchair generals lol. In fact I came back to WoW for a short period and was reminded of how much everyone cries in BGs.
As for which is better? It's hard for me to tell at this point. I have so much more experience with WoW, and only about 4 or 5 days of GW2 experience. What I do like about the BGs (sPvP) in GW2 is that, so far, it's a much more care free environment. I'm sure that will be different in the tournament mode (or whatever it's called). However, in the non ranked sPvP, I didn't notice anybody really complaining and crying because they were losing. I'm sure this has to do with the fact that winning won't get you gear to make you stronger.
As a matter of fact, everything about the game so far feels very carefree. You just hop on and have fun and (so far) nobody is stressing about anything. For example, when I was a noob in WoW, and still kind of a noob to MMOs in general, I saw someone getting beat down by a mob. I decided to help them out and got yelled at for kill stealing. This will never happen in GW2.
IMO, just buy GW2 and try it out. Think of it as buying a single player game. The way I see it, I enjoy it so far, but if 3 months down the line I realize I don't like it as much anymore, at least I didn't pay any sub fees.
As a side, I notice a lot of people say movement feels floaty. I can agree with that, however, if you move with the mouse and not the keyboard it is barely noticable. This is something I feel should somehow be fixed if possible because not everyone moves with the mouse, but it's drastically better than GW1 (which I couldn't bring myself to play simply because of the movement).
I don't see how people actually believe this. Gear in WoW isn't an automatic win. Sure maybe against a dude in greens. But a "tier" difference isn't gonna make a big difference. Guys in conquest gear still can and do get smashed by guys in honor gear.
Having gear differences doesn't turn all the players into drooling half wits that don't know how to play.
Also, from what I've heard here, there are still gear differences in the WvW which is mainly what I'm interested in.
Which may be the thing that many dont like. Some people like high horses. Some people like gear-based PvP. Yet GW2 dont have gear progression in PvP and some people need to make them up for lack of gameplay skill. Still they say that MMO need to have gear progression to make PvP feel interesting, which is strict opinion, rather than fact. Hence the dislike of GW2 PvP.
I play Dota/HoN/Dota 2 for ex. which dont have gear-based PvP at all and it still feel goddamn addictive, interesting and fun as hell.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
They're a lot different in the way they are designed and the way the gameplay feels. I've found that I'm a lot worse at GW2 PvP for whatever reason. My friends seem to be catching on quicker than me though.
I'd say the thing that I tend to struggle with the most while making the adjustment is condition awareness and recognizing what skills are being used based on recognizing enemy animations. I feel overloaded with information still. There are just so many skills to get used to seeing that it's been rough to miss dropping that stun or using that dodge at the right moment to counter X whatever and then have to think back and realize what a noob I was.
I think it's just going to take more of an adjustment period than I thought. It certainly takes more of an adjustment than SWTOr did. SWTOR was basically WoW with lightsabers when it came to PvP. GW2 is not like that at all.
Is it better or worse than WoW PvP? I don't know. I'm still trying to get to a point where I can even have a solid opinion about it.
I totally agree.
But I also think that when you get an alt to max level, it sucks to have to grind gear. And then to grind it again every season. Or if you miss the beginning of a season, people have better gear than you for a good while.
Their system rewards people that are there on day one of the season more than it should imo.
Why is Guild Wars 2 PVP better?
- No gear grinds
- No healers
These 2 are probably my biggest reasons for dumping WoW PVP. 1 healer + 1 DPS can take on an army because of the healer. In battlegrounds there are multiple healers and the gameplay consists of healers healing healers healing healers. It gets ridiculous to the point of being funny. No gear grinds means botting and AFK will be irrelevant therefore non existant.
I agree but it takes a longtime to climb the ladder to get up and play competatively in wow as with GW2 you can do it from day 1. Some people may like the climb others not. After that it mostly comes down to combat which I enjoy gw2 a lot more but it's a personal preference.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Maybe, but it take long time to cap-out PvP gear and rating, and most people wont bother to PVP with alts for this sole reason. Never again will i Grind and get steamrolled straight for 3+- months only to stay competitive and so that i can say "oh well, now you can see who is better skilled xD".
Times maybe changed though. Didnt PVPed in WoW since early days of WotLK.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Personally I hated PVP in WoW, it was a friggen joke and did more to destroy PVP in MMO then it did to help it. DAOC was hands down the best game when it came to PVP or I should say RVR. There was no instance crap and balanced numbers and it was unpredictable which made it fun.
Then WoW came along and there intent was to do something like wow and add a land mass specifically set aside for Faction based pvp. However instead of doing this they went the route of instances and because wow became so popular every MMO went the same direction thus PVP was destroyed for a long time. Where only now see a new era of PVP that is non instance PVP.
Part of the fun of faction or RVR type of PVP is that the balance of power can shift from moment to moment. One moment you're faction or realm is slaughtering the enemy because you out number them or because you're tactics are better. Then at the drop of a hate the enemy suddenly rallies there forces and come back in full force.
The other aspect is being in small groups and coming across that lone player and killing him, or even being that lone player and suddenly walking straight in to a large force of enemy players and trying to get to safety when you come accross the large forces.
Now I'm not saying Guild Wars 2 will live up to DAOC. However I hated PVP in WoW and thought it was for carebares who thinks pvp should be balanced and fair. I don't want fair even balanced PVP. I want to suddenly be out numbered or out gunned. I want to be defeated not because the other side is better geared but because there tactics were way better. Which was another element that made DAOC so awesome it wasn't really about numbers (though it did help) it was more about tactics and team work. Many battles that where won in DAOC had less to do with numbers and more to do with pure tactics. I was in battles where my realm was out numbered and we won not because whe suddenly got more players but because we were smarter and used better tactics. This is what is lacking about WoW. Also the fact that you could run through players in WoW was another factor this hurt tactics as well.
Bottom line is WoW plain sucked to no end in terms of PVP.
Sounds about right to me. All I ever see around here is GW2 this, GW2 that! Even in every other game's sub forum.
Still teetering on the fence. I've watched a few videos, looks like it could be fun for a month which I guess is kinda a good deal.
IDK, maybe if I get a lucky drop in D3 I'll buy it. Still gotta buy 2 copies of MoP though.
id advise this for any game or mmo - if money is tight, wait for a trial / demo
EQ2 fan sites
Both games are based off completely different visions...
Ones about gear and ones about equal ground and skill (flame on, i have no feelings).
That was the one thing I loved about Gw1 way back in the day... and before falling into the gear grinds of other games I forgot the fun I had just pvping to pvp.
Really you should be having fun while playing... you shouldnt be mindlessly grinding points for one more piece of gear..
but, to each their own as always
Speaking of GW1, it was more about purchase grind. If you only had 1 campaing purchased (like me) you had zero chance to be competitive in pvp, because you didn't have access to all skills.
GW2 might be the same.
Well... that would be like playing wow without the xpacs and expecting to be competitive.
If you only had vanilla would be fighting BC players in outlands gear
or being in BC gear fighting people with wotlk gear
and the worst.. wotlk gear vs cata gears.
obviiously if you dont continue to buy xpacs for any game you will have less choices or ways to progress your characters.Ah, you mean opposed to the $15 per month purchase grind in WoW, not to mention the obligation of buying all expansions to stay "on top"?
Gotcha!
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
True, true. In that sense both GW1 and WoW were pay to win games. GW2 has a good chance to be as well.