I tried both and i can say only one, in wow i was never able to get over 2k in arena . Here in gw2 i killed more player then ever before. For me is wow pvp much harder and more challenging. Some people will say it is because of gear that top teams are allways at top but it is not true. All players have top end gear in high end wow pvp and it is not hard at all to get that gear but it is hard to fight against wow pro teams.
Both games are based off completely different visions...
Ones about gear and ones about equal ground and skill (flame on, i have no feelings).
That was the one thing I loved about Gw1 way back in the day... and before falling into the gear grinds of other games I forgot the fun I had just pvping to pvp.
Really you should be having fun while playing... you shouldnt be mindlessly grinding points for one more piece of gear..
but, to each their own as always
Speaking of GW1, it was more about purchase grind. If you only had 1 campaing purchased (like me) you had zero chance to be competitive in pvp
Well... that would be like playing wow without the xpacs and expecting to be competitive.
If you only had vanilla would be fighting BC players in outlands gear
or being in BC gear fighting people with wotlk gear
and the worst.. wotlk gear vs cata gears.
obviiously if you dont continue to buy xpacs for any game you will have less choices or ways to progress your characters.
True, true. In that sense both GW1 and WoW were pay to win games. GW2 has a good chance to be as well.
...
...............
90% of games ever made are pay to win since you have to pay for the box to beat the game.
Both games are based off completely different visions...
Ones about gear and ones about equal ground and skill (flame on, i have no feelings).
That was the one thing I loved about Gw1 way back in the day... and before falling into the gear grinds of other games I forgot the fun I had just pvping to pvp.
Really you should be having fun while playing... you shouldnt be mindlessly grinding points for one more piece of gear..
but, to each their own as always
Speaking of GW1, it was more about purchase grind. If you only had 1 campaing purchased (like me) you had zero chance to be competitive in pvp, because you didn't have access to all skills.
GW2 might be the same.
Ah, you mean opposed to the $15 per month purchase grind in WoW, not to mention the obligation of buying all expansions to stay "on top"?
Gotcha!
WoW still has better PvP which makes it worth of $15 per month.
True, true. In that sense both GW1 and WoW were pay to win games. GW2 has a good chance to be as well.
Nice attempt to save the situation...
Newflash at 10: MMORPGs have expansions you pay for.
Some also require $15 per month to play. That's even more "pay to win" then, I guess...
Originally posted by Masa1
WoW still has better PvP which makes it worth of $15 per month.
Haha, now we fall into the realm of opinions, and even worse, assumptions.
More "information" spread by people who haven't played and don't intend to play the game.
At least when I compare WoW to GW2, I have played both, I don't pull conclusions out of... nowhere. Sadly, your post history makes your intentions/agenda here quite obvious ;-)
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Originally posted by Preacher26 obviiously if you dont continue to buy xpacs for any game you will have less choices or ways to progress your characters.
True, true. In that sense both GW1 and WoW were pay to win games. GW2 has a good chance to be as well.
Both games are based off completely different visions...
Ones about gear and ones about equal ground and skill (flame on, i have no feelings).
That was the one thing I loved about Gw1 way back in the day... and before falling into the gear grinds of other games I forgot the fun I had just pvping to pvp.
Really you should be having fun while playing... you shouldnt be mindlessly grinding points for one more piece of gear..
but, to each their own as always
Speaking of GW1, it was more about purchase grind. If you only had 1 campaing purchased (like me) you had zero chance to be competitive in pvp
Well... that would be like playing wow without the xpacs and expecting to be competitive.
If you only had vanilla would be fighting BC players in outlands gear
or being in BC gear fighting people with wotlk gear
and the worst.. wotlk gear vs cata gears.
obviiously if you dont continue to buy xpacs for any game you will have less choices or ways to progress your characters.
True, true. In that sense both GW1 and WoW were pay to win games. GW2 has a good chance to be as well.
Not really.
WoW - Gear matters... as in many games. WAR for example. Hitting Tier4 was beyond painful fighting maxed rank players.
GW2 - Gear is as accessable as it gets. When you start talking about having to buy the xpacs your referring to having access to the additonal skills.
So yes I will agree to stay competitive with the top players you will need to purchase any xpacs released for each game. The difference is you will be paying an additional 15 bucks a month for wow and still have a gear disparity.
Although I hate casual friendly games and do enjoy working for things, even in games.. when it comes to pvp I dont want to win a fight because I have more time to play (have better gear).. I want to win because im better than my opponent.
Both games are based off completely different visions...
Ones about gear and ones about equal ground and skill (flame on, i have no feelings).
That was the one thing I loved about Gw1 way back in the day... and before falling into the gear grinds of other games I forgot the fun I had just pvping to pvp.
Really you should be having fun while playing... you shouldnt be mindlessly grinding points for one more piece of gear..
but, to each their own as always
Speaking of GW1, it was more about purchase grind. If you only had 1 campaing purchased (like me) you had zero chance to be competitive in pvp
Well... that would be like playing wow without the xpacs and expecting to be competitive.
If you only had vanilla would be fighting BC players in outlands gear
or being in BC gear fighting people with wotlk gear
and the worst.. wotlk gear vs cata gears.
obviiously if you dont continue to buy xpacs for any game you will have less choices or ways to progress your characters.
True, true. In that sense both GW1 and WoW were pay to win games. GW2 has a good chance to be as well.
Not really.
WoW - Gear matters... as in many games. WAR for example. Hitting Tier4 was beyond painful fighting maxed rank players.
GW2 - Gear is as accessable as it gets. When you start talking about having to buy the xpacs your referring to having access to the additonal skills.
So yes I will agree to stay competitive with the top players you will need to purchase any xpacs released for each game. The difference is you will be paying an additional 15 bucks a month for wow and still have a gear disparity.
Although I hate casual friendly games and do enjoy working for things, even in games.. when it comes to pvp I dont want to win a fight because I have more time to play (have better gear).. I want to win because im better than my opponent.
Similiar to AoC pre-1.5
Well it matters but if you ewver played wow you know how easy is to get that top end gear, so everyone have same chance.
WoW still has better PvP which makes it worth of $15 per month.
Haha, now we fall into the realm of opinions, and even worse, assumptions.
More "information" spread by people who haven't played and don't intend to play the game.
At least when I compare WoW to GW2, I have played both, I don't pull conclusions out of... nowhere.
It's a fact, not assumption or opinion. GW2 only has lousy world PvP (only 4 maps and they are connected with loading screens) and structured PvP (with less than 10 maps?).
Well it matters but if you ewver played wow you know how easy is to get that top end gear, so everyone have same chance.
Yeah, WoW gear is "easy" when you play 8 hours a day everyday. For any normal player (the vast majority of the player base), it takes from weeks to even months to become competitive with a freshly leveled characters against people who already have a couple of seasons of PvP gear advantage.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Well it matters but if you ewver played wow you know how easy is to get that top end gear, so everyone have same chance.
Yeah, WoW gear is "easy" when you play 8 hours a day everyday. For any normal player (the vast majority of the player base), it takes from weeks to even months to become competitive with a freshly leveled characters against people who already have a couple of seasons of PvP gear advantage.
You don't have to play 8 hours a day. Even casual players (like me) can easily get the top gears.
Both games are based off completely different visions...
Ones about gear and ones about equal ground and skill (flame on, i have no feelings).
That was the one thing I loved about Gw1 way back in the day... and before falling into the gear grinds of other games I forgot the fun I had just pvping to pvp.
Really you should be having fun while playing... you shouldnt be mindlessly grinding points for one more piece of gear..
but, to each their own as always
Speaking of GW1, it was more about purchase grind. If you only had 1 campaing purchased (like me) you had zero chance to be competitive in pvp
Well... that would be like playing wow without the xpacs and expecting to be competitive.
If you only had vanilla would be fighting BC players in outlands gear
or being in BC gear fighting people with wotlk gear
and the worst.. wotlk gear vs cata gears.
obviiously if you dont continue to buy xpacs for any game you will have less choices or ways to progress your characters.
True, true. In that sense both GW1 and WoW were pay to win games. GW2 has a good chance to be as well.
Not really.
WoW - Gear matters... as in many games. WAR for example. Hitting Tier4 was beyond painful fighting maxed rank players.
GW2 - Gear is as accessable as it gets. When you start talking about having to buy the xpacs your referring to having access to the additonal skills.
So yes I will agree to stay competitive with the top players you will need to purchase any xpacs released for each game. The difference is you will be paying an additional 15 bucks a month for wow and still have a gear disparity.
Although I hate casual friendly games and do enjoy working for things, even in games.. when it comes to pvp I dont want to win a fight because I have more time to play (have better gear).. I want to win because im better than my opponent.
Similiar to AoC pre-1.5
Well it matters but if you ewver played wow you know how easy is to get that top end gear, so everyone have same chance.
Easy yes but its takes a decent amount of time. I agree though anyone can get the gear, its not difficult to get the gear it takes to be competitive but it is very time consuming.
And please understand I am all for having to work for things, moreso in pve however.
In pvp I dont want to wtfpwn some guy because he just hit 85 and has no gear. I want to roll him because im better than him.
Also for myself (this is my personal opinion) when I am playing a game like GW2 for pvp I am just playing to have fun, get better and experiment with different builds. When I am pvping in wow its to grind points for better gear so I can complete with the higher end players/teams. It takes the fun out of it for me. Again I dont mind working for things but when it comes to pvp I want to win/lose based on skill.. sure maybe some builds/professions will be tougher to counter than others but thats different than losing to someone ide normally beat if equally geared.
And before you start to think I was just a fail in wow, I was in very high ranked arena teams in Beta and HWL back in vanilla when it mattered. Some people like to play/pvp to have fun.. not constantly run on the gear treadmill. I always have many alts as well, which makes wow pvp that much more..work rather than fun.
WoW still has better PvP which makes it worth of $15 per month.
Haha, now we fall into the realm of opinions, and even worse, assumptions.
More "information" spread by people who haven't played and don't intend to play the game.
At least when I compare WoW to GW2, I have played both, I don't pull conclusions out of... nowhere.
It's a fact, not assumption or opinion. GW2 only has lousy world PvP (only 4 maps and they are connected with loading screens) and structured PvP (with less than 10 maps?).
You really have a problem separating "fact" and "opinion", apparently. Nevermind, all of your posts on the GW2 forums are negative, and this without having played the game yourself (yeah yeah, post history is nasty sometimes), making your agenda obvious. It's a fact that there's nothing better than WoW, we got the message.
I wish you a lot of fun in WoW or whatever game you play.
- Signed - A WoW fan since beta in 2004.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Originally posted by Kuppa Wow PvP got improved upon with time. It was horrible in the beginning as it was tacked on. That's not the case in gw2.
From my experience, the PvP in GW2 is horrible at the moment. Everything is unbalanced, gem purchases matter more than actual skill, PvE mobs in PvP (WTH???), response time sucks, ...
Balance is pretty good for not even being released yet. There are a bunch of discussion as to why gems don't matter in wvw in this site, I suggest you check them out. Spvp gems don't even play a role, its pure skill.
From my experience, the PvP in GW2 is horrible at the moment. Everything is unbalanced, gem purchases matter more than actual skill, PvE mobs in PvP (WTH???), response time sucks, ...
From my experience, the PvP in GW2 is horrible at the moment. Everything is unbalanced, gem purchases matter more than actual skill, PvE mobs in PvP (WTH???), response time sucks, ...
well... you are flying your true colors now
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Masa1
Originally posted by Masa1
WoW still has better PvP which makes it worth of $15 per month.
Haha, now we fall into the realm of opinions, and even worse, assumptions.
More "information" spread by people who haven't played and don't intend to play the game.
At least when I compare WoW to GW2, I have played both, I don't pull conclusions out of... nowhere.
It's a fact, not assumption or opinion. GW2 only has lousy world PvP (only 4 maps and they are connected with loading screens) and structured PvP (with less than 10 maps?).
You really have a problem separating "fact" and "opinion", apparently. Nevermind, all of your posts on the GW2 forums are negative, and this without having played the game yourself (yeah yeah, post history is nasty sometimes), making your agenda obvious. It's a fact that there's nothing better than WoW, we got the message.
I wish you a lot of fun in WoW or whatever game you play.
- Signed - A WoW fan since beta in 2004.
Attacking a person and not the post content itself, is a sign of running out of constructive criticism.
I did a hell of a lot of wow pvp over the years but no doubt about it, forget the bgs, forget arena, forget winter grasp - the very best fun I had was on dragonmaw EU pvp server in vanilla. One Saturday I spent the entire day fighting between southshore and tarrenmill. Started with a handful each side, ended with god knows how many of all levels. Awesome fun.
I see WvWvW potentially matching or exceeding that fun - what little I have done over the bwes has been nothing short of awesome!
If you haven't clicked on BlackestNite's link yet, then I recommend doing so. It's the best answer to this thread's original question that I've read (not trolling, it's a legit link to a forum post on another site).
Also, I'd like to say that when being critical of World of Warcraft in response to this post, it's good to acknowledge WoW's strengths and not only its weak points. It's true that gear does give you a strong advantage in WoW PvP, which only gets more and more pronounced for every member of a team that has top gear vs an opposing team with less geared players, but skill does matter in WoW. You can't just rotate your abilities vs a truly skilled player (and not self-proclaimed skilled) and beat him, even if your gear is superior. There is a complex and very responsive tactical game at the heart of WoW's pvp, and consequently there are a lot of players who enjoy the pvp aspect, even if they dislike the gear grind. The real tragedy in WoW pvp is that it can only ever be appreciated in full when you have teams of equal-geared opponents, and that is very rarely the case (only the highest ranked of players who reach a cap or near-cap of what they can equip).
I've pre-ordered Guild Wars 2 because I've read a lot of articles about the pvp, and seen a lot of videos that lead me to believe that this game has enough potential to give it a shot. Like the original poster, I also feel that WoW had the best pvp system I've played (and I do like ranked, artificial battlegrounds with even teams), but I was never a top gear player, and I did what I could with the strongest gear I could get with the least amount of grind. Sometimes I knew a fight would be impossible to win against certain players (be it from gear or just better skill), but I accepted that it was my job to either tie the enemy up and keep them away from other allies, or take off enough of their life so that someone else could try to finish them. I enjoyed the pvp a lot, even if I knew I was at a disadvantage in a lot of cases.
Hopefully Guild Wars 2 will allow me more options in pvp that I didn't have with WoW, now that gear grind won't be a huge part of the pvp game. I would really like to work at a game where I don't have to grind for my gear, and can focus more on just having fun playing the game and learning more about pvp strategy. The original poster may have this same philosophy, and just wants to know if his dreams might really come true. He isn't a no-skill, gear-grind player because he defends WoW pvp mechanics. There's a lot of good in WoW mechanics, and hopefully Guild Wars 2 is better.
Attacking a person and not the post content itself, is a sign of running out of constructive criticism. It's almost like you admitting that WoW is better than GW2.
When I call out someone for presenting something that is obviously an opinion as a fact, I'm not attacking the person, but the post.
Let me try this...
Vanilla ice cream is the best ice cream ever. And that's not an opinion, that's a fact. (which of course implies that anyone who prefers chocolate, or strawberry, or any other flavor is just wrong and very close to be stupid - how dares he dispute my fact).
See what I did here? I hope so.
But that's it, I'm done wasting time on this pointless debate, as I said, I hope you enjoy any game you will play. I hope you'll actually find a game that is more fun for you than posting negative opinions presented as facts on the forums of a game you don't play or intend to play.
Have fun. Pandaria is coming. I know I will also try Pandaria eventually, but not at release, I'll be busy with GW2.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
They're actually attempting a fix for the high res player facerolling the dude in greens with MoP, giving everyone a base resilience. I'm guessing it's not gonna have much of a difference, but I guess it's gonna depend on just how much more PvP stats the PvP gear has on it.
I just made a new shaman alt not too long ago and am in full ruthless gear, haven't even farmed up any cataclysmic gear and I can still put up a pretty good fight and have more kills than deaths in most non pre made BGs.
It's the premade vs pug that really makes people want to nerd rage.
I hate farming. I hate farming even more when it becomes a necessity rather than a choice.
In GW2 I will never EVER have to experience this 'farming upto current gear' because it simply doesn't exist. This is the point that sells GW2 pvp to me.
Depends on what you like doing... I like being rewarded for playing games. Rewards are a core of RPGs. Looking bad ass is nice and all, but looking bad ass and stomping asses is even better.
Really, it's not hard to get honor gear in WoW, and you can compete with it. The conquest gear is pretty much just there for a more long term goal. Which is also good, otherwise the game gets stale.
GW2 seems more like an FPS to me in that you just fight without really worrying about gear. Not talking about the gameplay, just the "have it your way" part.
Thinking I won't play the game until I can play a free trial.
The Part about you stating looking bad ass, but stomping asses is even better. I take this to mean you want an advantage over people with your gear. I've never really understood this mentality. Here is a comparison
Scenario 1: You are weak at first but through hard work or grinding you obtain better gear, and you pretty much face roll everyone else until they get better gear. It's a put in your time sort of mentality. Think in a way it breed elitism and the effect where people say you have to earn it. So lets take this example and expand on it. What happens for you if every new person does not roll an alt or you never play them until they are at the same level as you in terms of gear. Instead you only play with the people on your same gear level....it then transforms into
Scenario 2: You are all strong and your gear is pretty much the same. In this world everyone is already uber, so now you have to be crafty and think outside the box in order to win your fights. You kick ass also but in a more strategic way because you can not FACEROLL your opponent.
Scenario # 2 is just an evolution of Scenario #1 in which you remove all the players that in the case of WOW would be undergeared and instead you are just playing with people who are equally geared to you. Now you are fighting for fun and you get cosmetic pimp looking gear on the side.
This is the prime reason why I will play the GW2 PVP to cap or whatever it is. I want to play this game to its full potential. In other mmo's i've always shunned the pvp side because either A. I'm killing an animal in pve and since its world pvp I get killed, or....I zone into a place and immediately get ganged up on by people playing the game for 2 weeks longer than me who just use me as a wet tissue.
I can't see a negative to Scenario #2 however I do see one to the first Scenario. But like I said it's just a evolution is all. However if your mind state is still in that facerolling noobs..or newbs? part then yeah it might not be the game for you. Because in GW2 you trying that crap will get you killed.
But some people like the gear system, GW2 is not better just different.
This. It caters to a different style of player....mainly casuals.
This is something I don't get. Wanting a fair fight isn't casual. If I beat someone because of my gear, it doesn't feel rewarding. It's like killing low-level mobs with a high-level character. If you've got high-end PvP gear and kill someone with low-end gear, you're just a guy who has played more, not a real winner.
Indeed. Never could understand this concept unless you consider that they actually want to hurt the weaker people. Pride, ego...probably ego if I had to pick something. Not skill in anyway so when you do when in say WOW with someone less geared you know it's because you are more powerful. Kind of like Tera...wow that pvp was bad. Maybe 2-3 levels difference and you couldn't do a thing or stood no real chance. I remember fighting a level 20 when I was what 15 or 16....haha it was horrible. Bad thing was he was standing on a bridge I needed to cross so I couldn't get past him..just logged and came back later.
Hmm, that's a bit of a tricky question, because WoW and GW2 has a few different things going for them. GW2 PvP feels roughly as unforgiving as Vanilla WoW (pre-resilience) did.
There's more focus on structured PvP in GW2 conpared to WoW, there's way more teamplay to it, as opposed to WoW where it was more or less 'healers heal, dpsers peel'.
Characters aren't so reliant on gear, and generally not as strong, in GW2 as they were in WoW; if you had very good gear in WoW you could rape some serious face even in 1v2 situations, this you wont see in GW2 - you will not be seeing 'owned by gear' and you have to play really well to 1v2 people.
The fact that ALL attacks are physical in GW2 (meaning all players have hitboxes and all attacks will be executed even if you dont have a target) is just so huge and adds a lot of skill req. to the game.
I could honestly add a lot more things to this, but i can't tell if it's 'better' or not, because that's such a subjective term, i'm a HUGE fan of WoW Vanilla combat and i've been on a private vanilla server for the past years and i enjoy it immensely. Oh, if you're referring to post-resilience PvP then it's easy - GW2 is just overall better in every way, that's not subjective, that's fact - if you've played both and still disagree then i would argue you don't know what good PvP is and i'd feel sorry for you.
Seriously though, GW2 has great PvP and so does WoW, i would argue that GW2 requres more skill than WoW does.
Comments
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...............
90% of games ever made are pay to win since you have to pay for the box to beat the game.
WoW still has better PvP which makes it worth of $15 per month.
Nice attempt to save the situation...
Newflash at 10: MMORPGs have expansions you pay for.
Some also require $15 per month to play. That's even more "pay to win" then, I guess...
Haha, now we fall into the realm of opinions, and even worse, assumptions.
More "information" spread by people who haven't played and don't intend to play the game.
At least when I compare WoW to GW2, I have played both, I don't pull conclusions out of... nowhere. Sadly, your post history makes your intentions/agenda here quite obvious ;-)
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
O.o
in that sense, ANY game with an expansion is P2W
EQ2 fan sites
Not really.
WoW - Gear matters... as in many games. WAR for example. Hitting Tier4 was beyond painful fighting maxed rank players.
GW2 - Gear is as accessable as it gets. When you start talking about having to buy the xpacs your referring to having access to the additonal skills.
So yes I will agree to stay competitive with the top players you will need to purchase any xpacs released for each game. The difference is you will be paying an additional 15 bucks a month for wow and still have a gear disparity.
Although I hate casual friendly games and do enjoy working for things, even in games.. when it comes to pvp I dont want to win a fight because I have more time to play (have better gear).. I want to win because im better than my opponent.
Similiar to AoC pre-1.5
This game was designed with PvP in mind from the beginning.
Well it matters but if you ewver played wow you know how easy is to get that top end gear, so everyone have same chance.
It's a fact, not assumption or opinion. GW2 only has lousy world PvP (only 4 maps and they are connected with loading screens) and structured PvP (with less than 10 maps?).
Yeah, WoW gear is "easy" when you play 8 hours a day everyday. For any normal player (the vast majority of the player base), it takes from weeks to even months to become competitive with a freshly leveled characters against people who already have a couple of seasons of PvP gear advantage.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
You don't have to play 8 hours a day. Even casual players (like me) can easily get the top gears.
Easy yes but its takes a decent amount of time. I agree though anyone can get the gear, its not difficult to get the gear it takes to be competitive but it is very time consuming.
And please understand I am all for having to work for things, moreso in pve however.
In pvp I dont want to wtfpwn some guy because he just hit 85 and has no gear. I want to roll him because im better than him.
Also for myself (this is my personal opinion) when I am playing a game like GW2 for pvp I am just playing to have fun, get better and experiment with different builds. When I am pvping in wow its to grind points for better gear so I can complete with the higher end players/teams. It takes the fun out of it for me. Again I dont mind working for things but when it comes to pvp I want to win/lose based on skill.. sure maybe some builds/professions will be tougher to counter than others but thats different than losing to someone ide normally beat if equally geared.
And before you start to think I was just a fail in wow, I was in very high ranked arena teams in Beta and HWL back in vanilla when it mattered. Some people like to play/pvp to have fun.. not constantly run on the gear treadmill. I always have many alts as well, which makes wow pvp that much more..work rather than fun.
You really have a problem separating "fact" and "opinion", apparently. Nevermind, all of your posts on the GW2 forums are negative, and this without having played the game yourself (yeah yeah, post history is nasty sometimes), making your agenda obvious. It's a fact that there's nothing better than WoW, we got the message.
I wish you a lot of fun in WoW or whatever game you play.
- Signed - A WoW fan since beta in 2004.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
From my experience, the PvP in GW2 is horrible at the moment. Everything is unbalanced, gem purchases matter more than actual skill, PvE mobs in PvP (WTH???), response time sucks, ...
well... you are flying your true colors now
EQ2 fan sites
Attacking a person and not the post content itself, is a sign of running out of constructive criticism.
I did a hell of a lot of wow pvp over the years but no doubt about it, forget the bgs, forget arena, forget winter grasp - the very best fun I had was on dragonmaw EU pvp server in vanilla. One Saturday I spent the entire day fighting between southshore and tarrenmill. Started with a handful each side, ended with god knows how many of all levels. Awesome fun.
I see WvWvW potentially matching or exceeding that fun - what little I have done over the bwes has been nothing short of awesome!
If you haven't clicked on BlackestNite's link yet, then I recommend doing so. It's the best answer to this thread's original question that I've read (not trolling, it's a legit link to a forum post on another site).
Also, I'd like to say that when being critical of World of Warcraft in response to this post, it's good to acknowledge WoW's strengths and not only its weak points. It's true that gear does give you a strong advantage in WoW PvP, which only gets more and more pronounced for every member of a team that has top gear vs an opposing team with less geared players, but skill does matter in WoW. You can't just rotate your abilities vs a truly skilled player (and not self-proclaimed skilled) and beat him, even if your gear is superior. There is a complex and very responsive tactical game at the heart of WoW's pvp, and consequently there are a lot of players who enjoy the pvp aspect, even if they dislike the gear grind. The real tragedy in WoW pvp is that it can only ever be appreciated in full when you have teams of equal-geared opponents, and that is very rarely the case (only the highest ranked of players who reach a cap or near-cap of what they can equip).
I've pre-ordered Guild Wars 2 because I've read a lot of articles about the pvp, and seen a lot of videos that lead me to believe that this game has enough potential to give it a shot. Like the original poster, I also feel that WoW had the best pvp system I've played (and I do like ranked, artificial battlegrounds with even teams), but I was never a top gear player, and I did what I could with the strongest gear I could get with the least amount of grind. Sometimes I knew a fight would be impossible to win against certain players (be it from gear or just better skill), but I accepted that it was my job to either tie the enemy up and keep them away from other allies, or take off enough of their life so that someone else could try to finish them. I enjoyed the pvp a lot, even if I knew I was at a disadvantage in a lot of cases.
Hopefully Guild Wars 2 will allow me more options in pvp that I didn't have with WoW, now that gear grind won't be a huge part of the pvp game. I would really like to work at a game where I don't have to grind for my gear, and can focus more on just having fun playing the game and learning more about pvp strategy. The original poster may have this same philosophy, and just wants to know if his dreams might really come true. He isn't a no-skill, gear-grind player because he defends WoW pvp mechanics. There's a lot of good in WoW mechanics, and hopefully Guild Wars 2 is better.
When I call out someone for presenting something that is obviously an opinion as a fact, I'm not attacking the person, but the post.
Let me try this...
Vanilla ice cream is the best ice cream ever. And that's not an opinion, that's a fact. (which of course implies that anyone who prefers chocolate, or strawberry, or any other flavor is just wrong and very close to be stupid - how dares he dispute my fact).
See what I did here? I hope so.
But that's it, I'm done wasting time on this pointless debate, as I said, I hope you enjoy any game you will play. I hope you'll actually find a game that is more fun for you than posting negative opinions presented as facts on the forums of a game you don't play or intend to play.
Have fun. Pandaria is coming. I know I will also try Pandaria eventually, but not at release, I'll be busy with GW2.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
The Part about you stating looking bad ass, but stomping asses is even better. I take this to mean you want an advantage over people with your gear. I've never really understood this mentality. Here is a comparison
Scenario 1: You are weak at first but through hard work or grinding you obtain better gear, and you pretty much face roll everyone else until they get better gear. It's a put in your time sort of mentality. Think in a way it breed elitism and the effect where people say you have to earn it. So lets take this example and expand on it. What happens for you if every new person does not roll an alt or you never play them until they are at the same level as you in terms of gear. Instead you only play with the people on your same gear level....it then transforms into
Scenario 2: You are all strong and your gear is pretty much the same. In this world everyone is already uber, so now you have to be crafty and think outside the box in order to win your fights. You kick ass also but in a more strategic way because you can not FACEROLL your opponent.
Scenario # 2 is just an evolution of Scenario #1 in which you remove all the players that in the case of WOW would be undergeared and instead you are just playing with people who are equally geared to you. Now you are fighting for fun and you get cosmetic pimp looking gear on the side.
This is the prime reason why I will play the GW2 PVP to cap or whatever it is. I want to play this game to its full potential. In other mmo's i've always shunned the pvp side because either A. I'm killing an animal in pve and since its world pvp I get killed, or....I zone into a place and immediately get ganged up on by people playing the game for 2 weeks longer than me who just use me as a wet tissue.
I can't see a negative to Scenario #2 however I do see one to the first Scenario. But like I said it's just a evolution is all. However if your mind state is still in that facerolling noobs..or newbs? part then yeah it might not be the game for you. Because in GW2 you trying that crap will get you killed.
Indeed. Never could understand this concept unless you consider that they actually want to hurt the weaker people. Pride, ego...probably ego if I had to pick something. Not skill in anyway so when you do when in say WOW with someone less geared you know it's because you are more powerful. Kind of like Tera...wow that pvp was bad. Maybe 2-3 levels difference and you couldn't do a thing or stood no real chance. I remember fighting a level 20 when I was what 15 or 16....haha it was horrible. Bad thing was he was standing on a bridge I needed to cross so I couldn't get past him..just logged and came back later.
Hmm, that's a bit of a tricky question, because WoW and GW2 has a few different things going for them. GW2 PvP feels roughly as unforgiving as Vanilla WoW (pre-resilience) did.
There's more focus on structured PvP in GW2 conpared to WoW, there's way more teamplay to it, as opposed to WoW where it was more or less 'healers heal, dpsers peel'.
Characters aren't so reliant on gear, and generally not as strong, in GW2 as they were in WoW; if you had very good gear in WoW you could rape some serious face even in 1v2 situations, this you wont see in GW2 - you will not be seeing 'owned by gear' and you have to play really well to 1v2 people.
The fact that ALL attacks are physical in GW2 (meaning all players have hitboxes and all attacks will be executed even if you dont have a target) is just so huge and adds a lot of skill req. to the game.
I could honestly add a lot more things to this, but i can't tell if it's 'better' or not, because that's such a subjective term, i'm a HUGE fan of WoW Vanilla combat and i've been on a private vanilla server for the past years and i enjoy it immensely. Oh, if you're referring to post-resilience PvP then it's easy - GW2 is just overall better in every way, that's not subjective, that's fact - if you've played both and still disagree then i would argue you don't know what good PvP is and i'd feel sorry for you.
Seriously though, GW2 has great PvP and so does WoW, i would argue that GW2 requres more skill than WoW does.
GW2's PvP is just as bad as WoW's. So if you like WoW you will probably like GW2.
- downed state making PvP frustrating, predictable, defensive, prone to abuse and griefing
- short duration cc making PvP even more predictale and less tactical
- low skill cap (same as WoW)
- no server type with open world pvp everywhere
- WvW is a poor knockoff of daoc's RvR (even WAR did it better) with no purpose after level 80
- some melee skills root you (like ranger's 1h sword autoattack) which makes some weapons unusable in PvP
- viable PvP builds are already few for every class. I expect them to be even fewer after launch (same as WoW)
my review of GW2