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Why not having Raids in GW2 is a GREAT thing.
Zylaxx
Member Posts: 2,574
While some detractors attempt to use this fact as a criticism of something Guild Wars 2 is lacking, the truth is that it’s actually one of the game’s strengths.
Let’s start by dispelling the myth of raiding as the ultimate in PvE endgame content. I enjoyed raiding in other MMOs for a number of years, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s designed to force players to spend their time on repetitive, scripted tasks purely for the sake of advancing to the next tier of repetitive, scripted tasks. Because of their static nature, and because they rely on the holy trinity of dedicated tanks, healers and damage dealers, raid boss encounters are like a puzzle, but it’s a puzzle you only need to solve once. Where does the tank stand? How many healers do you need? Can the DPS stay out of fire? Once you solve the puzzle, or have it solved for you by reading a kill strategy step by step, it’s really little challenge to repeat it over and over again.
And you WILL need to repeat it over and over again. Subscription MMOs need to keep you coming back to do the same thing week after week, long after the novelty has worn off, and the only way to incentivize the experience is to gate the rate at which everyone acquires gear. That’s why gear is randomized when it drops and why not everyone who participated gets a reward. That’s why content has weekly lockouts, preventing you from running it over and over again as much as you’d like. Similar to a Las Vegas slot machine, raiding is designed to give you a gambler’s high every so often so you’ll keep chasing that high night after night. The time you sink into raiding can really start to add up for adults with college courses, full-time jobs and families. Having to put your social life on hold, or to sacrifice time spent on other hobbies or with friends and family just to chase pixels with better stats, shouldn’t be considered the ultimate endgame experience.
Thankfully, Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have raiding. What it does have are other forms of large-scale, cooperative content that are far more dynamic, and far less monopolizing of your time, than raiding. The best part about all of this content is that you can participate and compete in every bit of it on a level playing field, without the barrier to entry of gear grinds, regardless of how much time you have to play.
Taken from a post on GWI
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Comments
Also raids are a lobby-feature in mmorpgs, which is why I dont like them for having so much development resources put into something that is instanced and isolated. Content that only the most dedicated players get to fully enjoy, while fracturing the community in-game by character power level, and also out-game socially, creating the "elite" wing of players since they have 8 hours a day to play on 7 days of the week, making their numbers bigger in their char sheets.
I'd rather see the development concentrated more on the actual game world instead of these "elite class" instances, and hats off at GW2 for doing that.
I dont hate raids or those who do raiding, but I do dislike the effect raiding has on the overall game, how it turns the whole purpose of the game away from the open world and into these lobby activities. There's enough games with raiding if that's what someone wants.
While I'm not a big fan of raiding, I have yet to see anything GW2 has that will prolong the interest of it's PvE community. It's PvP is adequate endgame, but I have very little doubt that you're going to hear a lot of complaining from the PvE community.
So no, it's not a strength. It would be a strength if they implemented a meaningful alternative, but right now theres nothing to fill the gap adequately..
aside from instanced dungeon raiding what does gw2 not offer the PVE crowd? it does have raiding btw just in the open world form.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
What does it offer? How does that set it apart? Open world raiding is historically mediocre in practice, and I have doubt that's going to change just because GW2 is the title of the game.
videos in my sig answer all the questions you might have on endgame. Especially in the Hot Topics section
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
i will only talk for myself
as i hate PVP (sorry everyone - even WvWvW is not really for me), i LOVE almost any PVE content....
Now that that's been said i can tell you that the GW2 PVE content is totally different from any other game out there (and i have been playing MMO's for like almost 10 years or so), so - you just have to understand how this game works for us PVE addicts - it gives us a world which is virtually level-less - you can be any level and still enjoy any part of it.... i hereby open a challenge for you - please feel free to try and solve and explore all of the PVE content in GW2 - i think it will take at least 5-6 month of a few hours each day, and even then you have the explorable dungeons - so more PVE content.
once you will go through of all that and still feel like you need more PVE stuff then you can come and troll here... enough with all the Raids etc.. they are annoying and boring and a grind fest - and i would actually pay GW2 on a monthly basis just because they have no raids..
Thanks and now i will get back to my F5 on the GW2 site (sorry about that...)
Just my 2 cents...
As a hardcore PvE player I disagree. Raiding does not equate endgame, in fact it narrowly defines it. GW2 has oodles of endgame for the PvE'er.
From Legendary building, to map completion, to the Orr zone, to the 1500+ Dynamic events spread about a VERY large map. Im sorry if you dont see it, and sure this wont please the raiding community but seeing as the raiding community is around 10% of the playerbase of a given MMO then its not a bad thing.
Guild Wars 2 End Game (7.12.12.) Q&A Part 1
Guild Wars 2 End Game (7.12.12.) Q&A Part 2
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
[mod edit]
This game is all about the PVP which is quite good but still needs to add and change a few things in order to be great (pvp ladders, rankings and the titles to go with it, and to remove the generic pvp names garbage). But when Planetside 2 drops it wont matter anyways because thats gonna be the next monster E-Sport game not GW2.
game is not ever close to being all about PVP.. could take a look at the videos in my sig to show you otherwise.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
LOL sorry just had to say - LOVE the sig :-)
Just my 2 cents...
Raiding is a minority thing, but it's such a influential thing that nearly every MMO caters to this obnoxious minority,, and raiders love their stranglehold on MMOs. That's why you wrote this message. You don't want to lose the control you have over MMOs.
Not necessary. Ive beta tested GW2 multiple times. The PvE is not nearly as interesting as you try and make it out to be. It doesnt offer enough character progression to have any real longevity with the PvE crowd. Most people simply will not care to grind a rainbow sword which gives them no statistical advantage. Most people will not want to grind boring "events" when they get hardly anything interesting in return.
Around October-November this will be very obvious. The PvPers will still be around but the PVE zones will be quite empty.
The endgame is primarily PvP w/ some mediocre PvE elements. The PvE just isn't nearly as great as you seem to think it is, and this is coming from someone who dislikes raiding and appreciates the concept of dynamic events. No amount of video blogs changes that.
What was it like in Orr? I'm assuming that you must have tried this content out to have such a solid perception on the PvE content in GW2.
I pose the same question to the poster above as well.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
or perhaps you can tell me how all 32 dungeons were.. or how the elder dragon battles went.. I'd love to know as well
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I disagree. So far from what I've played, I think it has some of the strongest PvE elements out of any MMORPG I've played. They have made changes to the way questing works and the way the player experiences the world in key ways that feed my drive to see and explore the world.
It's so funny and intesnely hypocritical.
20+ man groups for best loot - BOO go away
5 man for best loot = YAY! More!
What?
Explain to me how needing an even smaller group of people to finish top content is LESS elitist than larger groups.
Seriously think about it. 5 guys = good. Increase all aspects so 20, 40 heck maybe even 60 people can do it at once and all get a challenge and loot. Boooo. This 'kneejerk' hating of raiding is really telling of people's ignorance.
not what people are saying at all.. but okay
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
It's really more like:
20+ man groups for best loot - BOO go away
5 mans, crafting, WvW, sPvP, open world PvE for best loot = YAY! More!
I can't wait for this spoiler.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Did you actually watch those videos? There is almost nothing to them. You have some skill point grinds for items, dynamic events that by the large are just the same mechanics playing themselves over and over again w/ slight twists, and some skill and puzzles challenges.
The dynamic events will be neat the first couple months, but after that it will be routine and boring. The skill challenges might be fun for the same people that dig the achievement stuff. And then you have the small party dungeons (which are actually a favorite thing of mine personally). That's pretty much it.
If you aren't a PvP player, your going to be disappointed after a couple months. You'll get your money's worth out of the game, but don't expect this to be something that going to entertain you for years based off it's PvE merit.
BECAUSE THE EXPLORABLE 5 MAN DUNGEONS ONLY GIVES COSMETIC GEAR! you don't gain ANY advantages over anyone else. All of the best gear in terms of stats is easily accessible to ensure that the game does not become unbalanced once you do end up reaching the end, except maybe for inbalances in classes, but that's generally unavoidable and fixable.
Raids, traditionally only give the absolute best gear, so it pretty much became mandatory to go grind these skinner box infested overglorified dungeons in order to even be considered relevant in the raiding community.
umm, I don't understand how that could be hypocritical but whatever.
Isn't your name the elvish word for friend in LotR?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.