Within a single player, highly scripted game, you are the only protagonist to kill the bad guy and get the girl. Others may be playing the same game, but they are not coexisting within your game world. Within the context of an mmo that is clearly not the case.
The whole idea of a game world is an illusion. What is a game world is what a dev said so cause the code & data can obviously share machines & hard disk.
So if you use instance or phasing, you are the ONLY one in that "game world" that kill the lich king and be the hero.
A level one story may have an npc call you a "hero", or you could RP a hero to your hearts content. As soon as you step outside of your instance/bubble though, every other fecker is in the same "legendary" gear, with the same titles having killed the same boss, you are part of the crowd.
So what? This is no different than go on the Starcraft chat-channel and talk to someone who has finished the campaign. Or go on the D3 chat channel with many who has killed Diablo.
That is no reason NOT to put some illusion of heroism in instances.
Where did I say you shouldn't have some "heroesque" storyline? You can run around as a level 1 in your duds calling yourself the emperor of "insert game world here" for all I care.
The actual stand outs though, the actual people who are as close a proximation to "heros" and "villains" within mmos, come not from instanced storyline quests, but from players making their way within the actual community. The pvp/guild leaders, the hated pker, the top ranked e-sport players lighting up the tournaments, the super crafters, the noob helpers who people run to for guides and advice.
If you join a group and announce yourself as the hero of x (lvl14 solo quest), you will find everyone else is also the hero of x. Now if a well known, top class player joins the group. Everyone gets a bolster.
Everyone can get to be the hero of dungeon x in their own little instance, but not everyone is going to be in the top bracket of their class, or in the top tier of pvp leaders etc (or even just the most helpful/biggest pking bastard). These are the stand out players. This is a massive difference from single player games and for me these are the people who fill in the roles of "heroes" and "villains".
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Umm challenging games are fun. Why out the challenge?
Games that are TOO difficult are not fun.
Case in point, inferno difficulty in D3 when it was first released. People die again, again, again and again. Everyone was fed up. Blizz nerf the difficulty and the game was a lot better.
Another example. Sunwell. Most (like 98%) just gave up and not even try.
D3 is a terrible option to use for arguing a point about an MMO. Especially when concerning a difficulty level as it has options regarding that.
D3 is being listed on this site. Its play style is very close to a MMO like WOW. Many WOW and other MMO players played D3. WOW also have difficulty level options for raids ... so i don't see a problem using D3 as an example.
The actual stand outs though, the actual people who are as close a proximation to "heros" and "villains" within mmos, come not from instanced storyline quests, but from players making their way within the actual community. The pvp/guild leaders, the hated pker, the top ranked e-sport players lighting up the tournaments, the super crafters, the noob helpers who people run to for guides and advice.
There is no "heroes" or "villains" in real world. They are just players. Sure, they may have epleen and a high gear score, but they are just playing games. It is not the same as a story line that have you saving the world.
If you join a group and announce yourself as the hero of x (lvl14 solo quest), you will find everyone else is also the hero of x. Now if a well known, top class player joins the group. Everyone gets a bolster.
No one anounced anything. Everyone who is sane knows that we are playing a game, and some proceed further than others. And yes, people chat about the game as they chat about SP games. And no one takes it away if you progress and beat a certain boss.
And likely, you are not going to meet "top class player" and it does not matter anyway. Most games can be beat by random joe like you and me.
Everyone can get to be the hero of dungeon x in their own little instance, but not everyone is going to be in the top bracket of their class, or in the top tier of pvp leaders etc (or even just the most helpful/biggest pking bastard). These are the stand out players. This is a massive difference from single player games and for me these are the people who fill in the roles of "heroes" and "villains".
No. But that is no differencce that top rank players in Star Craft or COD. There is no difference from any other MP games. There is no heroes or villains. Someone who has a high ranking in arena is just that .. a hardcore player who may play too much. There is nothing special about them.
May be if someone won a world SC2 champion .. now that is somethig special .. but he is not likely to play you, is he?
What happened to WoW,dumbed down to the bottom,this post doesnt make any sense.
Dumbed down is good. Dumbed down is GREAT, because it makes me feel the HERO and not the useless twat I am for free in RL 24/7 already thank you very much.
A lot of people prefer challenging gameplay because it is a rewarding experience. Get used to it. It's not like everyone is running around saying, "Oh dear me, I'm sick and tired of all the carebears".
Originally posted by DSWBeef Im sorry but i cant take anyone seriously when they think TSW and GW2 is hard. All i smell is a troll.
Elikal isn't a troll, he's been posting here a long time.
Some folks just like less twitchy games. I know that GW2 would aggravate some of these folks, but well, no game is for everyone.
Personally, I play FPS's and RTS's as well as MMORPGs, so I'm used to twitch, and I enjoy the twitchiness of GW2.
Huh, I never even noticed the twitch gameplay with GW2. Difficult? That must be a joke because GW2 is one of the easier games that I have played.
I will agree that GW2 normal PVE can get hairy but never super difficult. However I have gone through 3 story mode dungeons and one explorable mode dungeon and let me tell you that explorable mode definitely rivals/surpasses heroics dungeons before they get hit by the nerf bat.
Around 2 and a half hours with a pug with a guide that knew how to do all the bosses except teh last two. We had to die and think up strategies and me personally I swapped many skills out to suit encounters.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Not to sound arrogant, but did you need some help with your character? I'm not saying I'm perfect in any way but i have noticed through trial and error with my engineer that if i make the wrong choices in the beginning with skill allocation that it was very much more difficult to both survive and to kill enemies especially when they run up in waves. So I've traveled around alot to get extra beginning skill points to enhance my engineer because i've spent the original points in useless abilities that didn't help me survive initially.
My theif is the same way tho i'm slowly figuring out what works. I haven't played the mesmer, maybe there's a weapon type that has a few AOE specific abilities that you could use?
The only other thing i've found extremely hard is the platforming. Some of the early ones have very little to stand on and it's not large enough for a large grumpy charr to stand on a toothpick to get to where I'm going LOL
I've played the thief and you need signets to be effective, the first one i've chosen is the one that increases damage, there are two others to choose from. Dual wield daggers seems to have a great maneuverability. Also, sword and dagger has been very helpful imo because it lets you escape to a teleport location u setup yourself removing a condition.
I dunno maybe this could help? Also, if the mail system is up, people are crafting like mad crazy maybe they could give you better weapons which helps a little in dps.
Purhaps using duel pistols abilities will help?
I know what you mean. You see, I don't want a 200% power buff! I just want a TAD more oomph, a little bit more durable and powerful characters, just a little bit, so I am NOT standing on my toes and suffocating from adrenaline rush every single fight? Is that so much to ask??
Sorry. It just aggravates me devs always listen to the nerf crowd. ALWAYS! Why do always THEY have the final say? That's not fair! Just ONCE I wish they cater the games for ME not for THEM again!
Fucking seriously. They have heard you the last 10-15 years.. because games were dumbed down over the years.
And dont come with a old gamer.. I am a old gamer, too. And i have played since the first games for Atari Console or the first home computers appeared. And at that time, games were hard. They were not made to face palm through the game without trying to hard... it was much more a rarity to play through, than the opposite. And nowadays? I cant remember one game in the last 5 - 10 years which was not easily played til end without much thinking or trying. Just play and usually in a few hours the game is over already. WTF?
Old games were also relatively simple, from a mechanics angle. Learning curve consisted almost soley of matching one's reflext instincts to the game, on a control scheme that had (more or less) 4 directions to move and two buttons.
Yes, they were more challenging in the sense that they often gave you less reaction time and/or less room for error. But that's not quite the same thing as being "smarter." Ergo, saying games have "dumbed down" in reference to those is a bit of a misnomer.
Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.
I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!
Grrrr
Agreed 100%
Content has no depth anymore. It's either I-Win or I-Lose in 12 seconds. I miss the 45 minute Kimogilla fight that ate more stims than he was worth.
I agree, i play games for the experience. I don't want to be stressed out when I play just because i didn't hit a specific skill within a .5 second timeframe.
Content has no depth anymore. It's either I-Win or I-Lose in 12 seconds. I miss the 45 minute Kimogilla fight that ate more stims than he was worth.
45 min fight? That is just not good game design. If you die, it is 45 min wasted. Who has that kind of time to play a GAME.
10 min fight is already long. 5 min is about right.
I am glad no dev is insane enough for 45 min fights again. Plus, LONG != challenging.
You are assuming they are going to stay with current trend though. The die, die do it again trend. Those 45 minute fights were retreatable and they were cases where you could reduce it to 5 if you did it different.
These days everyone is a wiki-warrior because there is no learning to combat. Splat, you are dead. Go find the cookie cutter gear and specials combo to I-Win that mob, next mob.
The actual stand outs though, the actual people who are as close a proximation to "heros" and "villains" within mmos, come not from instanced storyline quests, but from players making their way within the actual community. The pvp/guild leaders, the hated pker, the top ranked e-sport players lighting up the tournaments, the super crafters, the noob helpers who people run to for guides and advice.
There is no "heroes" or "villains" in real world. They are just players. Sure, they may have epleen and a high gear score, but they are just playing games. It is not the same as a story line that have you saving the world.
I have repeatedly stated over and over again that I am talking in terms of an mmo specficially, not whether someone who helps organise pvp on a server is on par with a paraplegic war vet who threw himself on a grenade to save his men.
We are all just players, but some are stand out players, not just some nugget with a high gear score. There are players that help/hinder others and get noted on their servers. These are the approximations of "heroes" or "villains" within the context of an mmo.
If you join a group and announce yourself as the hero of x (lvl14 solo quest), you will find everyone else is also the hero of x. Now if a well known, top class player joins the group. Everyone gets a bolster.
No one anounced anything. Everyone who is sane knows that we are playing a game, and some proceed further than others. And yes, people chat about the game as they chat about SP games. And no one takes it away if you progress and beat a certain boss.
And likely, you are not going to meet "top class player" and it does not matter anyway. Most games can be beat by random joe like you and me.
No one announces anything because everyone has done the quests, and everyone knows without announcing it who the top players are.
You are certainly unlikely to meet a top class player if you spend your game time in an instanced bubble before rapidly moving onto the next game.
Whether pve content can be done without top class players means absolutely fuck all with regards to the argument. First of all, they are still noted and still help, secondly it extends outside of pve content to pvp, social aspects, crafting et al.
Everyone can get to be the hero of dungeon x in their own little instance, but not everyone is going to be in the top bracket of their class, or in the top tier of pvp leaders etc (or even just the most helpful/biggest pking bastard). These are the stand out players. This is a massive difference from single player games and for me these are the people who fill in the roles of "heroes" and "villains".
No. But that is no differencce that top rank players in Star Craft or COD. There is no difference from any other MP games. There is no heroes or villains. Someone who has a high ranking in arena is just that .. a hardcore player who may play too much. There is nothing special about them.
May be if someone won a world SC2 champion .. now that is somethig special .. but he is not likely to play you, is he?
There is a major difference between a persistent world game with evolving community relations and lobby games/single player games.
Furthermore, so what if the world champion of SC2 doesn't "play me". How exactly does that invalidate my argument again? Does the fact he doesn't play against me turn him to shit or something?
There are players and guilds noted on most servers in most mmos that allow for any sense of community. These players help or hinder others and make a name for themselves within their servers community. Some may be top of the pile or noted across the whole game, not just one server. And for me these are the approximations of "heroes" and "villains" in mmos.
This is all way off the whole "more difficult" topic so I will end with that. Apologies OP.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Content has no depth anymore. It's either I-Win or I-Lose in 12 seconds. I miss the 45 minute Kimogilla fight that ate more stims than he was worth.
45 min fight? That is just not good game design. If you die, it is 45 min wasted. Who has that kind of time to play a GAME.
10 min fight is already long. 5 min is about right.
I am glad no dev is insane enough for 45 min fights again. Plus, LONG != challenging.
By this statement, Demon Souls and Dark Souls are terrible game design . You can literally waste an hour going through a level only to die and have to do it ALLLLL again.
No, this is a matter of preference, you cannot say it is objectively bad game design. Even you pointed out Hardcore mode in D3 earlier...which would defenitely fall into your definition of bad game design.
The only things that I think you can call objectively bad game design are things that basically just do not "work" with the rest of the game very well, or don't really make sense. A bad inventory management system, for example, is bad game design.
Content has no depth anymore. It's either I-Win or I-Lose in 12 seconds. I miss the 45 minute Kimogilla fight that ate more stims than he was worth.
45 min fight? That is just not good game design. If you die, it is 45 min wasted. Who has that kind of time to play a GAME.
10 min fight is already long. 5 min is about right.
I am glad no dev is insane enough for 45 min fights again. Plus, LONG != challenging.
By this statement, Demon Souls and Dark Souls are terrible game design . You can literally waste an hour going through a level only to die and have to do it ALLLLL again.
No, this is a matter of preference, you cannot say it is objectively bad game design. Even you pointed out Hardcore mode in D3 earlier...which would defenitely fall into your definition of bad game design.
The only things that I think you can call objectively bad game design are things that basically just do not "work" with the rest of the game very well, or don't really make sense. A bad inventory management system, for example, is bad game design.
I suppose that is preference .. bad for ME. I won't play a game that i can waste 45 min for nothing. You won't see me playing D3 hard core mode. You won't see me playing Demon Souls and Dark Souls.
There are players and guilds noted on most servers in most mmos that allow for any sense of community. These players help or hinder others and make a name for themselves within their servers community. Some may be top of the pile or noted across the whole game, not just one server. And for me these are the approximations of "heroes" and "villains" in mmos.
And for me, they are just players. No difference than someone who post a Diablo farming guide on youtube. They are not part of any in-game story that concerns me.
Community in a game world is no different, in that regard, to a community of SC players, of COD players. Obviously there are some good, and some bad. But you don't need a MMO to have a community.
Content has no depth anymore. It's either I-Win or I-Lose in 12 seconds. I miss the 45 minute Kimogilla fight that ate more stims than he was worth.
45 min fight? That is just not good game design. If you die, it is 45 min wasted. Who has that kind of time to play a GAME.
10 min fight is already long. 5 min is about right.
I am glad no dev is insane enough for 45 min fights again. Plus, LONG != challenging.
Who has 45 minutes to play a game? Umm.......... almost everyone who plays games. If you never have 45 minutes time to play a game, games might not be for you as your life is clearly too busy.
Also the millions of people that made League of Legends a massive success apparently all have 30-45 minutes for a fight since that is how the game works.
The more you post in this thread the more it is clear you are a person who was brought into gaming through facebook and other extremely casual game methods and can't fathom a person actually taking the time to learn, to improve, to master a game or even for a person to play a game for a whole hour in a row.
I don't think you understand gaming at all truthfully.
Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.
I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!
Grrrr
Agreed 100%
Content has no depth anymore. It's either I-Win or I-Lose in 12 seconds. I miss the 45 minute Kimogilla fight that ate more stims than he was worth.
Agreed. There was real risk vs reward back then, those Kimogillas dropped a really good crafting material. Now the only risk is a low possibility of dying with zero negative effects on your character, but most likely you kill whatever in 10 seconds.
I dislike how MMOs have gotten more business like in their creation and design. Back then, there were MMO players and there were single player gamers. Now MMOs want to maximize thier player base by including all of the people who prefer single player games by introducing the over the top story bullshit, and taking out any complexity and massiveness to their games.
While I prefer something more group oriented and more difficult my stance on that position is situational. Directly related to said game I’m playing community.
If it’s dominating younger generation game I’d prefer an easier or solo approach to avoid that experience. Vs. something more harder with more mature players so I can enjoy myself in good company.
Oh my, sorry you hate any kind of a challenge. Look at it from the other point of view, almost all new games are so easy as to make you bored to death a couple weeks in. The vast majority of games today are far too easy. Beyond Eve I don't know any challening MMO out there ATM.
Go play Wow, SWTOR, etc all the new games. At least Anet listened and added a little bit of difficulty. As to the Secret World, you can't be serious about it being challenging. It is more boring than anything else. Hope they add in some difficulty.
Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.
I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!
Grrrr
You could solve this issue yourself very easily. Ready? Ready?
Who has 45 minutes to play a game? Umm.......... almost everyone who plays games. If you never have 45 minutes time to play a game, games might not be for you as your life is clearly too busy.
Read carefully. It is about WASTING 45 min for nothing. We are talking about progression game here, not LOL. I do play in 1-2 hours session .. but i will never just spend 45 min on ONE fight that has a high chance of failure.
Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.
I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!
Grrrr
You could solve this issue yourself very easily. Ready? Ready?
STOP DYING!
Done.
LOL .. you sound as if you have control over that.
Why don't you try solo the latest hard mode raid, and show me how you can stop dying?
Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.
I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!
Grrrr
You could solve this issue yourself very easily. Ready? Ready?
STOP DYING!
Done.
LOL .. you sound as if you have control over that.
Why don't you try solo the latest hard mode raid, and show me how you can stop dying?
you do control that, that means knowledge of what to do, and play the game, course you could need some skill to do that, if you are a brainless moron you should do it without a problem, its even easyer because anyone can res you and most fights you need to just won't die and for some reason you did, hope for someone close by res you, and most people will do.
you do control that, that means knowledge of what to do, and play the game, course you could need some skill to do that, if you are a brainless moron you should do it without a problem, its even easyer because anyone can res you and most fights you need to just won't die and for some reason you did, hope for someone close by res you, and most people will do.
Have you actually played WOW hard mode raid? Or D3 inferno mode? without over-gearing? No skill in the world would prevent you from dying. Don't believe me, go try.
Better yet, try D3 hard core mode. Come back when you have a L60 paragon 100 toon .. then i beleive you can "control" it.
you do control that, that means knowledge of what to do, and play the game, course you could need some skill to do that, if you are a brainless moron you should do it without a problem, its even easyer because anyone can res you and most fights you need to just won't die and for some reason you did, hope for someone close by res you, and most people will do.
Have you actually played WOW hard mode raid? Or D3 inferno mode? without over-gearing? No skill in the world would prevent you from dying. Don't believe me, go try.
Better yet, try D3 hard core mode. Come back when you have a L60 paragon 100 toon .. then i beleive you can "control" it.
first I don't play crap, that means wow and D3, second when I play I do it serious that means I will do what is reaquired and change things when needed so yeah I don't follow walkthough, what most of wow "raiders" do no challenge at all, you could even bot that thing if you want.
but again i'm trying to explain science to a bird, don't matter how well I explain and facts I give, he will never understand.
Comments
Where did I say you shouldn't have some "heroesque" storyline? You can run around as a level 1 in your duds calling yourself the emperor of "insert game world here" for all I care.
The actual stand outs though, the actual people who are as close a proximation to "heros" and "villains" within mmos, come not from instanced storyline quests, but from players making their way within the actual community. The pvp/guild leaders, the hated pker, the top ranked e-sport players lighting up the tournaments, the super crafters, the noob helpers who people run to for guides and advice.
If you join a group and announce yourself as the hero of x (lvl14 solo quest), you will find everyone else is also the hero of x. Now if a well known, top class player joins the group. Everyone gets a bolster.
Everyone can get to be the hero of dungeon x in their own little instance, but not everyone is going to be in the top bracket of their class, or in the top tier of pvp leaders etc (or even just the most helpful/biggest pking bastard). These are the stand out players. This is a massive difference from single player games and for me these are the people who fill in the roles of "heroes" and "villains".
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
D3 is being listed on this site. Its play style is very close to a MMO like WOW. Many WOW and other MMO players played D3. WOW also have difficulty level options for raids ... so i don't see a problem using D3 as an example.
A lot of people prefer challenging gameplay because it is a rewarding experience. Get used to it. It's not like everyone is running around saying, "Oh dear me, I'm sick and tired of all the carebears".
Huh, I never even noticed the twitch gameplay with GW2. Difficult? That must be a joke because GW2 is one of the easier games that I have played.
I will agree that GW2 normal PVE can get hairy but never super difficult. However I have gone through 3 story mode dungeons and one explorable mode dungeon and let me tell you that explorable mode definitely rivals/surpasses heroics dungeons before they get hit by the nerf bat.
Around 2 and a half hours with a pug with a guide that knew how to do all the bosses except teh last two. We had to die and think up strategies and me personally I swapped many skills out to suit encounters.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Old games were also relatively simple, from a mechanics angle. Learning curve consisted almost soley of matching one's reflext instincts to the game, on a control scheme that had (more or less) 4 directions to move and two buttons.
Yes, they were more challenging in the sense that they often gave you less reaction time and/or less room for error. But that's not quite the same thing as being "smarter." Ergo, saying games have "dumbed down" in reference to those is a bit of a misnomer.
Agreed 100%
Content has no depth anymore. It's either I-Win or I-Lose in 12 seconds. I miss the 45 minute Kimogilla fight that ate more stims than he was worth.
I agree, i play games for the experience. I don't want to be stressed out when I play just because i didn't hit a specific skill within a .5 second timeframe.
45 min fight? That is just not good game design. If you die, it is 45 min wasted. Who has that kind of time to play a GAME.
10 min fight is already long. 5 min is about right.
I am glad no dev is insane enough for 45 min fights again. Plus, LONG != challenging.
You are assuming they are going to stay with current trend though. The die, die do it again trend. Those 45 minute fights were retreatable and they were cases where you could reduce it to 5 if you did it different.
These days everyone is a wiki-warrior because there is no learning to combat. Splat, you are dead. Go find the cookie cutter gear and specials combo to I-Win that mob, next mob.
There are players and guilds noted on most servers in most mmos that allow for any sense of community. These players help or hinder others and make a name for themselves within their servers community. Some may be top of the pile or noted across the whole game, not just one server. And for me these are the approximations of "heroes" and "villains" in mmos.
This is all way off the whole "more difficult" topic so I will end with that. Apologies OP.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
By this statement, Demon Souls and Dark Souls are terrible game design
. You can literally waste an hour going through a level only to die and have to do it ALLLLL again.
No, this is a matter of preference, you cannot say it is objectively bad game design. Even you pointed out Hardcore mode in D3 earlier...which would defenitely fall into your definition of bad game design.
The only things that I think you can call objectively bad game design are things that basically just do not "work" with the rest of the game very well, or don't really make sense. A bad inventory management system, for example, is bad game design.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I suppose that is preference .. bad for ME. I won't play a game that i can waste 45 min for nothing. You won't see me playing D3 hard core mode. You won't see me playing Demon Souls and Dark Souls.
And for me, they are just players. No difference than someone who post a Diablo farming guide on youtube. They are not part of any in-game story that concerns me.
Community in a game world is no different, in that regard, to a community of SC players, of COD players. Obviously there are some good, and some bad. But you don't need a MMO to have a community.
Who has 45 minutes to play a game? Umm.......... almost everyone who plays games. If you never have 45 minutes time to play a game, games might not be for you as your life is clearly too busy.
Also the millions of people that made League of Legends a massive success apparently all have 30-45 minutes for a fight since that is how the game works.
The more you post in this thread the more it is clear you are a person who was brought into gaming through facebook and other extremely casual game methods and can't fathom a person actually taking the time to learn, to improve, to master a game or even for a person to play a game for a whole hour in a row.
I don't think you understand gaming at all truthfully.
Agreed. There was real risk vs reward back then, those Kimogillas dropped a really good crafting material. Now the only risk is a low possibility of dying with zero negative effects on your character, but most likely you kill whatever in 10 seconds.
I dislike how MMOs have gotten more business like in their creation and design. Back then, there were MMO players and there were single player gamers. Now MMOs want to maximize thier player base by including all of the people who prefer single player games by introducing the over the top story bullshit, and taking out any complexity and massiveness to their games.
Waiting on: The Repopulation
While I prefer something more group oriented and more difficult my stance on that position is situational. Directly related to said game I’m playing community.
If it’s dominating younger generation game I’d prefer an easier or solo approach to avoid that experience. Vs. something more harder with more mature players so I can enjoy myself in good company.
Oh my, sorry you hate any kind of a challenge. Look at it from the other point of view, almost all new games are so easy as to make you bored to death a couple weeks in. The vast majority of games today are far too easy. Beyond Eve I don't know any challening MMO out there ATM.
Go play Wow, SWTOR, etc all the new games. At least Anet listened and added a little bit of difficulty. As to the Secret World, you can't be serious about it being challenging. It is more boring than anything else. Hope they add in some difficulty.
You could solve this issue yourself very easily. Ready? Ready?
STOP DYING!
Done.
Read carefully. It is about WASTING 45 min for nothing. We are talking about progression game here, not LOL. I do play in 1-2 hours session .. but i will never just spend 45 min on ONE fight that has a high chance of failure.
LOL .. you sound as if you have control over that.
Why don't you try solo the latest hard mode raid, and show me how you can stop dying?
you do control that, that means knowledge of what to do, and play the game, course you could need some skill to do that, if you are a brainless moron you should do it without a problem, its even easyer because anyone can res you and most fights you need to just won't die and for some reason you did, hope for someone close by res you, and most people will do.
Have you actually played WOW hard mode raid? Or D3 inferno mode? without over-gearing? No skill in the world would prevent you from dying. Don't believe me, go try.
Better yet, try D3 hard core mode. Come back when you have a L60 paragon 100 toon .. then i beleive you can "control" it.
first I don't play crap, that means wow and D3, second when I play I do it serious that means I will do what is reaquired and change things when needed so yeah I don't follow walkthough, what most of wow "raiders" do no challenge at all, you could even bot that thing if you want.
but again i'm trying to explain science to a bird, don't matter how well I explain and facts I give, he will never understand.