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I am the casual player, with nothing to play. :(
Dewm
Member UncommonPosts: 1,337
So we've had a few threads recently (you know the ones) that discuss whether we'll have a group based MMO again, or whether MMO's will be getting harder or easier.. and so on,
But one thing that is brought up all of the time, is casual players... the "hop on and play for 30 minutes" crowd.
Well I am here to announce that I am really part of that crowd. I used to be able to devote 3+ hours a day to a game, that is just not the case anymore. I have a full time job, projects around the house, a kid.. etc...
when all is said and done I might get a hour every other night. maybe a couple on the weekend. But here is my problem, everyone says "we must make it this way for the casual player base"
Well maybe I want my 30 minutes of play time to actually mean something?, nothing worse then getting on a game *i'm looking at you RIFT* and being able to play a few hours a week, and capping within a few months... What happened to the days where it would take someone a year to finish a MMO? (if they ever did finish?)
I feel like any MMO I play now days (GW2 included) its almost just wasted time... whats the point in farming if I am going to be done with this game in 2 months?.. why bother making friends? or trying to do good in a guild? why?, and then it just starts going downhill from there, If i'm not going to farm then I won't be able to get the gear I need for that last dungeon.. Well thats fine, I'll just skip the last couple dungeons, no biggie.
And soon I'm like... why even log into one of these games?
I don't have massive amounts of time to spend on a MMO or really any game anymore, but at the same time, what little time I do have I would like it to mean something, "Sure i'll spend 45 minutes farming" because in the long run I will be able to get X item.. which I don't mind getting because I will be playing this game for years to come!
So this whole arguement of "casual players want it super easy!"... no I don't think thats the case, I think lazy people want it super easy..
If I'm not the first one on my server to get to cap, I don't care.. its not like I would anyways on a easier game.
If the game takes 3 years for me to finish, there will always be that guy that does it in 8 months,
if the game takes me 3 months to finish, there will be a guy who does it in 48 hours.
... I just want a good game to play, a world to play in. something that will last a little while.
I played WoW for 4 months, and played FFXI for 3 years.. who do you think made more money off of me?
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Comments
Thanks,
Mike
Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com
Good post here, Dewm, I feel the same.
We're used to call a playstyle "casual" but it really means little. Plenty of people can't play long hours but that doesn't mean that they all want easy action arcade games. Sure, some want it that way, basically passive entertainment ("FUN") without getting involved too much, like watching a TV show - but there's also plenty of people with limited time budget that look for less shallow entertainment.
In the games I play, mostly indie sandboxes, I know plenty of people that cannot spend long hours - but still prefer a game with depth, slow progression and that virtual world feeling. Those people just accept that others are progressing faster - and it doesn't matter anyway.
One can enjoy a virtual world no matter how much time one has.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Its not about the leveling. Its about pvp.
I played UO for 3 years. Pvping and crafting. Not much else. Ok.. community, but which also was bound together because of the economy(crafting, gathering, demand of new gear because of full loot and item decay) and pvp.
I played DAoC for 3 years. And well the first year was leveling and rvr(or battlegrounds) and then just RvR with some gold farming pveing in DF(Pvp dungeon) nothing else. And of course the community bound together through RvR.
Played WoW for 7 month. PvP sucked. And Pve/Raiding was boring. So..
And at least i hope that the WvW in GW2 will be what RvR was for DAoC... a long term entertaining engagement within a MMO, with the power to forge a community together. And then i could play it for a few more years.
And with the item cap(as in early DAoC) it is even doable for a casual player, at least to some extent.
PS:
And about a living world.. well, you need a sandbox for it. Casual or not. The problem with the casual in a sandbox usually is, he just is able to see the living world, but barely able to take part in it. Sandboxes, world building is rather time consuming. We will see how ArcheAge turns out.. and my hopes are with World of Darkness in a few(or more) years.
Best mmos in a long time (at different things)
With half an hour to spare
If you like pvp, jump in gw2 sPvP, get levelled to 80 with your choice of top end gear and have fun
If you like pve, hop in tsw, take one of the main quests (which are multi staged mini adventures) 20 mins to half an hour later your done with a sense of achievement. Also the dungeons are short but hard, no trash mobs, complicated boss mechanics.
Ah...but grinding must have a point behind it, and cosmetic reasons don't qualify for some of us, even if we are "casual"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Play TF2.
It's for free, it's fun, you can get lots of action in a short time, can find items, craft new stuff...
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
It wont take years. The big grind is 200 skill points. You get 1 for each level you complete (after the first few) and each zone have 5-10 in them, you also get 1 when you should have made a new lvl when you are 80. You also need to max out 2 crafting disciplines which can be a bit grindy if you do it yourself.
Sure, I can see a casual players who is aimed on it from the start spending 6 months on getting one but not longer than that. And that is unsupport by a guild for the crafting mats.
When do you consider your game to be finished? It's pretty vague term when it comes to MMO's.
I can't speak for RIFT but I do know thing or two about GW2 and it offers something to do for months even after hitting the level cap. Now if you like doing those is whole another thing.
My Guild Wars 2 blog. Read it. The bestestest and most TRUTHEST BLOG EVER!!
This is exactly the audiance Im personally working on an online game for.
I think the OP has alot of like minded people who, when young and less engaged with family and work, had tons of time to excel in games, and now misses that experience.
Its totally solvable, we just need to reward smaller amounts of play time, and outright stop character progression by those with tons of free time.
Most social games on the web do this already, but are not challenging enough.
Combining Social + Casual + Challenging in one game is achievable.
-Blitz
Werewolf Online(R) - Lead Developer
Point well taken, I guess I was refering to more of a goal. So let me put it this way..
If it takes me 3 years to get to that last boss fight and kill him, there will be a guy who does it in 8 months.
If it takes me 3 months to get to that last boss fight, there will be a guy who does it in 48hrs.
back when Mario was still a thing, there was some dude who played the whole game in under 3 minutes (or something like that) it was because off all these short cuts and he just pretty much ran the whole way..
But yet I don't hear anyone saying that it was unfair that he beat the game in 3 minutes, but it takes a casual gamer 3-6 hours to beat the game.
And this is kinda the same concept..
This weekend I picked up Vanguard and started playing it again (tried it out years ago).. and I know almost nothing about the game, where to find stuff. what does what, and after 3 days of playing I am only level 4, I could only play around 2 hours this whole weekend, but I am fine with that, because it means something in the long run.
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For me the big question is... am I having fun?... if I'm having fun... does the fact that there's one guy that gets to the last boss fight and kills him in 8 months, or in 48 hours (to use both examples) has any impact on me playing (and having fun) for 3 years or 3 months (depending on which one).
Personally, as a casual player (being married, work, university and a baby do that to you), I'm finding myself on the opposite situation to you. While some people were complaining about nothing to do in TSW a few weeks after release, I was still having lots of fun in the early areas of the game (played from releast until GW2 release, still haven't finished the main story by FAR, and planning on returning in a few months to finish it). While some people in GW2 are complaining about having to grind in Orr, I'm not even level 30 in my main and when I do hit 80, if I find it boring, I have 4 other alts already created and ready to play, which I'll do for as long as I'm having fun, just to use some examples.
And personally, any of those two games do sound like a casual paradise to me. I can log into TSW, do a few missions, maybe advance the story by one or two tiers, or even get into a group for a dungeon (dungeons are short and fast in TSW) in an hour or so, and log out feeling like I've advanced a little bit, or log into GW2, roam around a bit gathering crafing materials or do a few DEs here and there, maybe craft a little bit, or join a couple sPvP games, or if the queues aren't too big when I'm playing, check on my guild on mumble to see which WvW map they're in, get in, defend a tower, attack another one or a supply, maybe help take some supplies to build sieges or defend caravans, and log out in an hour or two, and feel like both I advanced a little bit, and had lots of fun doing it.
At least that's from my point of view.
What can men do against such reckless hate?
Most games nowadays support single players so you should have a ton of games to choose from. Whether it takes you 3 years or 3 days to get to max level shouldn't matter if you're having fun tbh.
If you want a maxxed out character to play endgame content without the work the only option I can think of would be buying an account, as frowned upon as that may be.
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
Borderland 2 is also less than 2 week away.
But if leveling rewards the players with abilities, 3 years is NOT as fun as 3 days becuase you don't get to use the new abilites soon, and have to repeat the same abilities longer.
And you don't have to buy an account. Just choose a game with a lower leveling curve. You can get to max level in Diablo 3 in 2-3 weeks. If that is still too long .. welll .. buy an account, i guess.
And I guess this is where I seperate myself from most other players, while some people see it as grinding and using the same skill over and over, I see it as longeviity.
I have a hard time playing a MMO if I know what I am doing in the game is going to be pointless in a month or two, Like the fella a few post above me, who was talking about TSW or GW2, to me its like.. whats the point in going through those games if I could be done with it in a month or two?
I play single player games for a short campaign and storyline (and I have to be honest, I don't play a whole lot of them) but what I really enjoy is multiplayer, whether its forge world on Halo, or Forza infection mode. I enjoy playing with people and friends, And in a MMO one of the biggest draws is the fact that I can play for a year or more, and build relationships and makes friends and have a good time playing.
Now I am not some crazy guy who has no friends, But very few of my friends enjoy playing MMO's, so for that aspect I look within the community of said MMO, and with a game that is going to be over in a month or two, its hard to build those relationships.
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
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What is the point of any game?
To me, is to be entertained. 2 month is a LONG time (to me, not to you) to be enteratined by a single entertainment products. Any game gets old eventually. What is the point of playing the same game for years? Plus, there is always the expansion and the content patch.
Finish the content in two month, and come back when they have more.
About using the same skill for a long time ... well .. anything gets old eventually. And i suppose it depends on how fun the skill is implemented.
This is where we differ, you say 2 months is a long time....
I played FFXI for 3 years, I still play Age of Empires 2 almost once a week (came out in 1999) been playing Minecraft for 2 years now, been playing Halo reach since it came out (2 years now?)
Hell even WoW kept me entertained for 6 months...
So no I don't think 2 months is a long time.
If MMO's are now being designed to last 2-4 months, then we need to stop paying for the monthly fee. MMO's are SUPPOSED to last longer then a singleplayer game. thats why we pay $60.00+ and then a monthly sub fee.
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1) 2-4 month is a lot longer than a SP game .. those last me 1-2 week. So yeah MMOs are still lasting longer.
2) What $60 + sub fee? .. most MMOs are F2P now. I certainly do NOT pay $60 and then a sub fee anymore. WOW will be my last sub game.
3) I do play WOW for 2-3 years, and D3 for more than 3 months. But those are exceptions. The point is that I do not restrict myself to any time duration. If it is fun for 3 months, i will do 3 months. However, if a game starts to bore my in a week, or even in an hours, i am out of there.
I really dont' want to sidetrack from the OP, BUT...
1. I don't know about you, but the examples I just gave show how long I spend on SP games, I've logged 300+ hours into Skyrim, I logged close to 2000+hours into Oblivion, I've played halo reach (granted it was multiplayer) but I've played halo reach 4-8hrs a week since it came out (some weeks more then others)
....So if you are spending 1-2 weeks on a SP game, I would suggest you not buy every peice of crap out there, and save some money and just buy the good ones.
2. Besides GW2, which NEW MMO is F2P? SWTOR? FFXIV? RIFT? last time I checked those ALL had sub fee's
3. I wasn't saying you can't have fun for a couple weeks, lotsa people do.. But for me, as a casual player, I would prefere my time to mean something. I cannot get into a MMORPG and "have fun" playing it, if I am going to be done with it in a month. RPGs are about exploring new worlds, and actually creating a character, And for me its hard "playing" in a world that will be all gone in a month.
This is all IMO (exept No. 2....that is just fact)
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At least the third one, the way I see it, I haven't seen an MMO released recently that you could be done with everything it offers in a month by playing casually, at least unless my definition of casual is different tham yours (personally I consider casual playing about 1 or 2 hours a day average, and not every day). I'm not saying that there are lots of people that reach endgame and beyond in less than a month, or even in a couple of weeks, in most recently released MMOs... but they're usually the ones playing 7+ hours a day every day or so (and more on weekends)
What can men do against such reckless hate?
The problem is, there aren't many Skyrims (or Oblivions) out there and how long did we have to wait between those two games? 5 years? So if you played Oblivion for 6 months, let's say, what was there to do for the next 4.5 years between games? No SP game out there can last more than a couple of weeks of dedicated play, they just lack enough content (and multi-player games are not, by definition, SP). In my sig, you can see I've played through a huge number of SP games, the list is much bigger than that, I just gave up updating it, and I still have nothing to play! There just aren't enough good SP games coming out fast enough.
SWTOR is going F2P and since when are FFXIV or Rift new? The fact is, the majority of new MMO releases, outside of AAA games, are F2P.
I can't say I've ever played an MMO that I actually enjoyed and been done with all the available content in a month, sorry. That's not to say that some idiot can't race through the content as fast as they can and be done that fast, but it takes a pretty crappy game to have so little content that you can do everything there is to do, see everything there is to see, and have accomplished it all in 30 days unless you're playing 24/7.Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
1) What does length has anything to do with quality? I would much rather have 2 weeks of great fun (and many SP games do) then months of boring crap. Most good shooters (including HALO reach) can be done in 2 weeks (SP campaign, i don't do pvp). And you don't know you can sell back the game after you are done?
And are you saying that Dead Space or DS2 are crap? They are more fun than 90% of the MMOs out there, even though they are 2 week games. Ditto for the Bioshock series.
Plus, i have such a backlog of games i haven't played and i can ge them for cheap (like the older assassin creed for less than $15). Don't assume i go out and buy $60 new releases. I don't play fast enough even when they don't last for more than 2-3 weeks.
2) Facts .. here are the facts. TOR is going F2P. Marvel Heroes is going to be F2P. Rift is already F2P. Heck, you are wrong 2 out of your 3 examples. I bet TSW is going F2P soon. No one says i need to play new MMOs. There are SO many F2P out there .. DDO, LOTR, AOC, DCUO, STO ... even if i play 2 month each, it will be a long time before i need another MMO.
3) "And for me its hard "playing" in a world that will be all gone in a month." .. that is wrong because your toon & the game is not going anywhere. You can always go back to visit, or play new content. Plus, you "prefer you time to mean something"? That is strange when we talk about digital ENTERTAINMENT. The only thing it means, to me, is whether i am enjoying the time. It is not real. It is not a world. MMOs are just games. Surely, it may be games that i can come back later, and still have a character, but still .. they are not a second life.