To all you guys OMGing about no-trinity...

Meridion

Now, I've read or at least flown over most of the threads here lamenting the downfall of the holy trinity. That's no problem as long as you guys don't claim the GW2 system to be broken. In my opinion, it's not. It seems that most people say it doesn't work, complaining about 

"the boon/condition system is too hard to manage" or

"the self heals don't suffice" or

Both make me rolleyes really hard. The boon/condition system is hard to manage? really? Most classes have "get rid of all condition" or "steal all boon" or "transfer all boons" skills, hardly any "cure confused but not poison or blind" or anything like that. Most skills are point-blank shots like "null field", like "stay here and be out of harms way". Does it get any easier?

The self heals don't suffice are probably the dumbest I've heard. It maked me cringe even more when I hear people allowing 3 slots only for water-eles and engineers with heal so that theres capability of a burst heal.

People, it's dead obvious that the combat system is meant to be played like a shooter. If you're wounded, retreat, evade, decoy. All squishy classes, absolutely all have means to retreat safely at least in PvE. In Ascalon ruins for example, I've seen the two melee classes stand there and get beaten most of the time. 

People, for gods sake, you can tumble every 4 seconds or so, get your a** moving, charged attacks (and most stuff that kills you fast is charged) can be easily evaded through tumbling or interrupts. Just stop standing there like it's 2004 Everquest 2 launch...

Just wanted to blow that steam, and yea, I think most of the people complaining that the game/system is too hard, are just playing it wrong (i.e. getting punched in the head)...

I myself LOVE playing a game that finally involves movement as an integral part of its design.

M

 

Dibdabs

I don't think I've ever seen anyone use Evade yet, heh.  I have it keyed to mouse button 4 and I'm like a flea on a griddle.    There are just people who like to stand and slug it out, it seems.

Drachasor

Originally posted by Dibdabs
I don't think I've ever seen anyone use Evade yet, heh.  I have it keyed to mouse button 4 and I'm like a flea on a griddle.    There are just people who like to stand and slug it out, it seems.

To be fair, the game doesn't do much to teach the mechanics.  In the vast majority of MMOs you never move out of the way of stuff, because you can't.  So naturally MMO players tend not to.  I think that's a big part of it.

Yakkin

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Dibdabs
I don't think I've ever seen anyone use Evade yet, heh.  I have it keyed to mouse button 4 and I'm like a flea on a griddle.    There are just people who like to stand and slug it out, it seems.

To be fair, the game doesn't do much to teach the mechanics.  In the vast majority of MMOs you never move out of the way of stuff, because you can't.  So naturally MMO players tend not to.  I think that's a big part of it.

Yeah, for all the awesomeness that GW2 fulfills, it really needs a better tutorial system.

I'm fine, of course, mostly due to watching videos and such, but even then some things are less clear/more vague than others.

Meridion

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Dibdabs
I don't think I've ever seen anyone use Evade yet, heh.  I have it keyed to mouse button 4 and I'm like a flea on a griddle.    There are just people who like to stand and slug it out, it seems.

To be fair, the game doesn't do much to teach the mechanics.  In the vast majority of MMOs you never move out of the way of stuff, because you can't.  So naturally MMO players tend not to.  I think that's a big part of it.

Granted, but it's there, it works, i use it all the time and its a charm, its a free 1 second invul every 4 seconds...

Nitth

---

Originally posted by Drachasor
In the vast majority of MMOs you never move out of the way of stuff, because you can't.  So naturally MMO players tend not to.  I think that's a big part of it.

---

Are you one of those guys that stand in the fire in other games?

Master10K

People just have it so ingrained in them that the game must work "this way" (like every other trinity-based MMO) that they simply have a hard time adapting and blame their faults on the game's mechanics. Like I remember a Warrior I did a dungeon with, bitching that he can't taunt mobs and hold aggro. And 2 days ago when we did the 2nd champion in Twilight Arbor (the one that summons spiders) people simply didn't understand the concept of circle strafing. I literally survived that entire boss fight, with a Thief, simply kiting circles around that boss waiting for everyone else to graveyard zerg it.

 

But I guess I'm used to movement being intergral in combat, since I started off as an FPS gamer. However the game does have it's faults, with some dungeon bosses and mobs having too high a health poll and dealing more damage than they should.

Master10K

Originally posted by Nitth

---

Originally posted by Drachasor
In the vast majority of MMOs you never move out of the way of stuff, because you can't.  So naturally MMO players tend not to.  I think that's a big part of it.

---

Are you one of those guys that stand in the fire in other games?

Seen plenty of people who fail to get out of the fire in other MMORPGs, trying to max out their dps rotation (especially in a game that allows dps meters), so I'm not all to surprised we see so many glass cannon specced people trying to do the same in GW2. Unfortunately, this is a game that simply doesn't favour people trying to build glass cannon, since they'll just end up shattered, the moment anything targets them.

FrodoFragins

I haven't complained because I have only done one dungeon (AC Story) and it was with a pug.

 

I should preface by saying that my spec was not well suited for being hit by bosses.  It worked quite well on the way to 80, but it is a deteriment in dungeons.  The problem is that I'm not sure I put dungeons as a priority and without a dual spec I may just avoid them for a while.

 

The combat wasn't quite what I was expecting.  As a melee I found the fighting area quite cramped at times.  I either couldn't see anything but a close up of the boss.  The lack of a cast bar is going to take time, as I personally didn't recognize the cast animations very well.

 

I did learn a little on the fly and changed some of my skills and tactics.  I only NEEDED to doge attacks in story mode a few times on the way to finishing it.  I'm sure that's the biggest issue for me  I didn't really enjoy the retreat or hide out of sight strategy.  Kiting is OK and expected.  I guess I have to get used to being out of the fight for periods of time or drastically lowering my dps with ranged attacks.

 

It's far too early for me to pass judgement on GW2 system.  All I can say is that my first experience wasn't fun.  I don't think that's a good idea for a players first dungeon experience.

Misaris

Originally posted by Meridion

  a game that finally involves movement as an integral part of its design.

yeah right, finally.. after Secret World and Tera already did the same thing earlier, and better.

heck, even AoC has more innovative combat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5eikU4ZD4k