Well, even if we step aside from the players as EVIL and go with the characters as EVIL - you're still locking yourself into a game where EVERYBODY is on the same side, aside from these EVIL characters - no? As in, there's peace throughout the world - except for this bad lot, eh?
I suppose I just come at it from the angle of territory control, fighting over resources, etc, etc, etc. Each side considers the other side...the bad side.
Guild A is fighting Guild B over X spot of land... is far different than there are no guilds, there is no land, and Random Guy 1 decided to kill fellow Random Guy 2.
rungard comes from the school of thought who wants to make the fun stuff unfun.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
yea those are my terms for players who like to kill their fellow players. The exception to this is the killing of these villians which is acceptable for "good" players.
a good player gone bad if you will. The hunters and the hunted. Good times for all.
Um.... I find that mind boggling. Sure, I can look at UO and the Reds there - they were playing the villain. To an extent, one could say the same about pirates in EVE. However, all of the folks fighting wars in EVE? Nope. All those folks that are involved in games where there are factions at war? Nope. Not a chance.
I mean - you're literally saying that the players are EVIL. That's just mind boggling.
evil is just the theme for that team. players are probabally not "evil" but they play the bad guys. Thus , as is NOT the case in todays mmo's, they need to look, act and be treated the part. The same goes for good guys.
they are the dynamic players because they give some intelligence to the environment. i say keep them few and give them some tools.
Well, even if we step aside from the players as EVIL and go with the characters as EVIL - you're still locking yourself into a game where EVERYBODY is on the same side, aside from these EVIL characters - no? As in, there's peace throughout the world - except for this bad lot, eh?
I suppose I just come at it from the angle of territory control, fighting over resources, etc, etc, etc. Each side considers the other side...the bad side.
Guild A is fighting Guild B over X spot of land... is far different than there are no guilds, there is no land, and Random Guy 1 decided to kill fellow Random Guy 2.
yes that is pretty much it, and there are reasons for it.
1) we need villians in our games, despite what some people think villians provide spice and purpose to the things you do. A little danger and fear will improve gameplay.
2) Think of the villians more as commanders, as some of their skills would be to command mobs and initiate events (in the highest ranks). They are the dynamic aspect that people want now in their pve. You cant have 50 good and 50 bad..it wont work as one side will be driven off. We need to keep their numbers low by keeping it very challenging for them. That doesnt mean its not rewarding.
This isnt rvr, but there would be terriroty control as there would be an evil npc empire the bad guys would be a part of. Bad guys would get to start events, forify areas, assign guards just like good guys can in their areas. The difference is that the bad guys are basically providing dynamic content to the predoninantly pve crowd.
As a pver you give up 100% protection for true dynamic content. You towers can be taken over permanently unless you take them back. Your cities can be seiged. Its everything everyone wants at the minimum required price.
To achieve open world PvP for mainstream gamers you need first to remove the hardcore element. Meaning death penalties cannot be too harsch as to deter people from engaging in it but at the same time it can not be as lenient so it is meaningless. Balanced death penalty is the key here.
Second you need to have mechanics implemented to make ganking harder to do. Asheron's Call had the great system of giving you a radar of some sort so you could see people, if you paid attention, before they ganked you. This would also mean that stealthing needs either be very limited or not in the game at all.
Finally you have to include PvE in the mix. It has been shown that doing PvP only is not the way to attract mainstream, so what is needed is to use PvE and PvP gaming together. For example, to have contested PvP areas over valuable PvE spawns.
Also, last but not least, PvP has to have some real objectives and consequences. MMORPG's are not FPS's where you do PvP just for the hell of it. There has to be some meaning to it and fighting over PvE spawns is one way to do it, other way is to be able to build, own and fight over keeps which gives you significant value, if held.
If these things are properly implemented I believe you could cater to mainstream. Most important I think is not to leave out PvE in the mix because, like it or not, PvE is a central component in MMORPGs.
Comments
rungard comes from the school of thought who wants to make the fun stuff unfun.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
yes that is pretty much it, and there are reasons for it.
1) we need villians in our games, despite what some people think villians provide spice and purpose to the things you do. A little danger and fear will improve gameplay.
2) Think of the villians more as commanders, as some of their skills would be to command mobs and initiate events (in the highest ranks). They are the dynamic aspect that people want now in their pve. You cant have 50 good and 50 bad..it wont work as one side will be driven off. We need to keep their numbers low by keeping it very challenging for them. That doesnt mean its not rewarding.
This isnt rvr, but there would be terriroty control as there would be an evil npc empire the bad guys would be a part of. Bad guys would get to start events, forify areas, assign guards just like good guys can in their areas. The difference is that the bad guys are basically providing dynamic content to the predoninantly pve crowd.
As a pver you give up 100% protection for true dynamic content. You towers can be taken over permanently unless you take them back. Your cities can be seiged. Its everything everyone wants at the minimum required price.
UO - we hunted Reds. Were Reds bad guys? Sure.
Shadowbane - we went to war. Bad guys? No. War.
EVE - one could say pirates are bad guys; but in general...we went to war.
AO - again - war.
SWG, WoW, RIFT, CoX, etc, etc, etc - not open PvP; but world PvP - factional. Bad guys? Not really. War.
Whether it's guild/alliance/corp/faction/etc - it tends to be war. Not good guys and bad guys.
It's not kids playing cops and robbers. It's adults playing war...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
To achieve open world PvP for mainstream gamers you need first to remove the hardcore element. Meaning death penalties cannot be too harsch as to deter people from engaging in it but at the same time it can not be as lenient so it is meaningless. Balanced death penalty is the key here.
Second you need to have mechanics implemented to make ganking harder to do. Asheron's Call had the great system of giving you a radar of some sort so you could see people, if you paid attention, before they ganked you. This would also mean that stealthing needs either be very limited or not in the game at all.
Finally you have to include PvE in the mix. It has been shown that doing PvP only is not the way to attract mainstream, so what is needed is to use PvE and PvP gaming together. For example, to have contested PvP areas over valuable PvE spawns.
Also, last but not least, PvP has to have some real objectives and consequences. MMORPG's are not FPS's where you do PvP just for the hell of it. There has to be some meaning to it and fighting over PvE spawns is one way to do it, other way is to be able to build, own and fight over keeps which gives you significant value, if held.
If these things are properly implemented I believe you could cater to mainstream. Most important I think is not to leave out PvE in the mix because, like it or not, PvE is a central component in MMORPGs.
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