How do you deal with that bot that's mining all your nodes? How do you get back that guy that kicked you right at the end of the boss fight so he could ninja the loot? How do you stop the guy that trained a bunch of mobs onto you? How do you stop the guy that watches you clear a path to the named quest mob then rushes in and grabs it at the last minute for the lolz? How do you do the raid progression without encountering gear score nazis?
There are generally controlled ways of solving these problems in PvE games:
Bots: In recently developed games, minimaps display the nodes you need. You can simply find another node and do that. Besides, bots don't generally have gear past the bare essentials and carry little aside from necessities. If they aren't actual people, killing them will not prove a point nor will it stop the bot from rezzing and making their way back to do their function.
Ninja-Looting: Blacklists are a thing of wonder if used properly. I might miss my one chance at that special item but most newer games have drop chances that are higher than 5% for those special items. You can just blacklist the person and run with other people. These players generally have a bad reputation with the community and are well known for their actions.
Mob-trainers: Simply put, be cautious like you would be in a FFA PvP game. If someone looks evil or seems to be doing something abnormal, walk away from that person. If they persist, do something else where that person isn't. These people generally are just looking for some "lulz" and will leave you alone if you don't just take it in the face.
Ninja-mob-killer: Do something else until said buttmuncher has left you alone. Most games have a multitude of other quests and/or objectives that will last you hours. These people are essentially e-bullies.
Gear-Score-Nazis: Generally you can spot these players from a crowd anyways. They pretty much are in love with stats and their flashy armor. Just don't group or associate yourself with them like people do in real life.
In the end, FFA PvP is not the only answer to buttmunchers. Sometimes, it's best just to wait for your opportunity to take it on a later date.
I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift. I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough. I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.
It's not real life. Do I go around killing people in real life and taking all there stuff, do I even want to, no do I hell.
Honestly you anti pvp amateur psychologist white knights are like Mary Whitehouse or something.
You can shout that from the roof tops, it's going to fall on deaf ears.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Originally posted by ShakyMo Killing them and taking all their gear does
For some it might, assuming you actualy have the capability of doing so which most of thier victems don't, but for the real griefers it doesn't. They aren't even playing the same game as you. They are playing the "Let me find a way to ruin someone elses day" game. They don't care about thier characters or thier stuff. Everything is simply a tool to allow them to make someone else miserable. For those guys, the only thing that works is the ban-hammer. They exist in PvE games too...but under those rulesets it's very difficult for them to hide thier true intentions of griefing. In FFA PvP, the ruleset lets them easly hide griefing as a legitimate form of play.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Grumpy:Only you find the greifers tend to be the biggest cry babies of the lot when you get them back.That is one aspect where ffa pvp is like real life. Those that dish it out moan the most when they have to take it back.
I have found this to be true as well. They are also the most likely to run away, combat log, use exploits to win, and whine excessively when they get caught doing any of these things. There's a post near the current end of this thread saying that those people aren't even playing the same game, and I think it's true. I don't know what game they are playing, but it doesn't look like a fun one.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Killing them and taking all their gear does
For some it might, assuming you actualy have the capability of doing so which most of thier victems don't, but for the real griefers it doesn't. They aren't even playing the same game as you. They are playing the "Let me find a way to ruin someone elses day" game. They don't care about thier characters or thier stuff. Everything is simply a tool to allow them to make someone else miserable. For those guys, the only thing that works is the ban-hammer. They exist in PvE games too...but under those rulesets it's very difficult for them to hide thier true intentions of griefing. In FFA PvP, the ruleset lets them easly hide griefing as a legitimate form of play.
How do you know what other players are thinking and what their motivation is for playing?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
It occurs to me that if we're going to call people sociopaths, we should at least make sure we understand the term. There's a checklist of behaviors that sociopaths exhibit.
At least 3 of the following:
Callous unconcern for the feelings of others.
Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them.Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment.Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.
There's a LOT more to diagnosing people with antisocial personality disorders, including the different types of psychopathy, but nobody here is a psychologist, so nobody here is really qualified to diagnose anyone with anything, but we can at least get an idea of what the term means. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It occurs to me that if we're going to call people sociopaths, we should at least make sure we understand the term. There's a checklist of behaviors that sociopaths exhibit.
At least 3 of the following: [list] [*[Callous unconcern for the feelings of others. [*]Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations. [*]Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them. [*]Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence. [*]Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment. [*]Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society. [/list]
There's a LOT more to diagnosing people with antisocial personality disorders, including the different types of psychopathy, but nobody here is a psychologist, so nobody here is really qualified to diagnose anyone with anyone with anyone, but we can at least get an idea of what the term means. :-)
We're talking about a video game for crying out loud.
Players killing other players pixels in an internet game that is supposed to be fun.
You guys are overthinking this to such an extreme I'm practically speechless.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
There's no need bothering with training people to be psychiatrists for 5 years, you can spot the nutters easily by seeing which people like using their set of pixels to blow up other peoples sets of pixels.
Originally posted by dave6660 Originally posted by lizardbones It occurs to me that if we're going to call people sociopaths, we should at least make sure we understand the term. There's a checklist of behaviors that sociopaths exhibit. At least 3 of the following: Callous unconcern for the feelings of others. Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations. Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them. Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence. Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment. Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society. There's a LOT more to diagnosing people with antisocial personality disorders, including the different types of psychopathy, but nobody here is a psychologist, so nobody here is really qualified to diagnose anyone with anyone with anyone, but we can at least get an idea of what the term means. :-)
We're talking about a video game for crying out loud.
Players killing other players pixels in an internet game that is supposed to be fun.
You guys are overthinking this to such an extreme I'm practically speechless.
That's silly. You're not practically speechless...you typed out three whole sentences there. You're practically terse at best.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Solid post OP. The gaming community has degenerated, just look at XBOX Live. Sadly that gaming community has been invading the more intelligent and respected gaming community for years. People don't understand what it is to have an actual community in a game anymore. That simple fact has killed a lot of FFA PvP games in development and release.
Richard Bartle had it right, you have to have all the different groups of gamers to create a successful online FFA PvP game. You need your achievers, killers, explorers, and socializers. More importantly you need the expanded list. You need your reds and your blues. You need your griefers and your anti-griefers. Unfortunately, that hasn't been reached in a Fantasy style FFA PvP sandbox in a long time. All you have is an overabundance of Reds...because its easy.
The Blue players should be more abundant than the Reds, or a close balance. But with bad design decisions making it to easy to be a successful Red, that balance has been scewed the wrong way.
If you started punishing the Reds like they did in older games. Lineage II, UO etc. you would have a decent game and a majority of the Anti-FFA hate would go away. The newer gamers would understand that the games they have now are just incomplete.
~~~~~~
A solid community will keep the Reds at bay through communication between the Blue players and the rest of the non PvPing community. The Reds will push back through innercommunication between each other, and at times will wage war on each other. Its a cycle that was seen in the older games that just isn't in the newer games anymore sadly.
And as unfortunate as it is to say, will probably never be again because of the way the gaming community has changed these past several years.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Let us have a moment of silence for all the mmorpg players who have suffered soul crushing, life altering loss of pixels at the hands of sociopaths...
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Originally posted by ShakyMo Killing them and taking all their gear does
For some it might, assuming you actualy have the capability of doing so which most of thier victems don't, but for the real griefers it doesn't. They aren't even playing the same game as you. They are playing the "Let me find a way to ruin someone elses day" game. They don't care about thier characters or thier stuff. Everything is simply a tool to allow them to make someone else miserable. For those guys, the only thing that works is the ban-hammer. They exist in PvE games too...but under those rulesets it's very difficult for them to hide thier true intentions of griefing. In FFA PvP, the ruleset lets them easly hide griefing as a legitimate form of play.
How do you know what other players are thinking and what their motivation is for playing?
You don't need insight into anyones thoughts.. that's irrelevant to the discussion.... you simply judge them by thier BEHAVIOR. In PvE (and even in Faction based PvP) most of the BEHAVIOR involved in griefing falls outside the legitimate ruleset of play. In FFA PvP alot of the behavior in griefing falls within or is very close to the legitimate ruleset of play...thus not really something that is actionable.
Think about organized sports. Putting a hard hit on somebody is fully legitimate as long as they have the ball and the play is still active. The person could secretly be a sadist who secretly enjoys inflicting pain but hides it well or they could be a completely decent guy who is just trying to help his team win. As long as the guy is BEHAVING like a decent player...making fair hits, shaking hands at the end of the game, etc... it doesn't really matter what's going on in the guys head because no one is negatively effected by that. One the other hand a guy that is consistantly making cheap, late hits after the whistle has blown and then dancing around taunting the guy he just clocked...well he's probably a complete Punk but it's remotely possible that inside his head he's really a decent guy who's just being thoughtless and idiotic. Doesn't matter because he's BEHAVING like a Punk and that's wrecking the game for the other players...the Ref is going to EJECT him for his BEHAVIOR. Now if there are no rules against late hits and taunting, then you can't eject the Punks and the Idiots...the game suffers and ALOT fewer people are going to be interested in playing.
Originally posted by Waterlily Why do PVP players care so much to be accepted by PVE players, go play your games and stop trying to drag people into your drama-ridden cesspools.
Actually it´s the only way around.
It´s PVE players joining PVP games and attempting to convert both the game and community into a PVE one by whining and complaining and demanding changes in the name of "moral and fairness"
We would let you be if you just ate your half of the cake, but when you reach for our strawberries we defend ourselves.
Originally posted by Waterlily Why do PVP players care so much to be accepted by PVE players, go play your games and stop trying to drag people into your drama-ridden cesspools.
Its the other way around most of the time. PVE players jumping to bite the hand of any PvP game or PvPer, because it has a sense of competition you don't like or can't understand.
Those last few words are kinda funny... Drama-ridden cesspools. So you don't enjoy drama, yet your creating it by stating what you did. Not to mention your on a forum that is nothing but drama, 2000+ posts as well, and I am sure they are all Drama Free like the one above. /Sarcasm
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Dave: Perhaps we should launch some of those rubber bracelet things and call it pixel aid. Then could make a fortune flogging them to white knights so they can wear them in support if the poor downtrodden losers of pixels.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Every raid guild I've been in has been a drama ridden cesspool.
pretty much the same. The greed is, for me, unnacceptable.
that said im not against raids per say, but i am against greed, so i avoid raiding in these games because they embody it. I have always thought that raids would be alot more fun, interesting and reasonaqble to people if raid events gave raid rewards and not individual rewards. That promotes teamwork and community in my opinion.
im sure not every guild is a greed infested powertrip, but in my experience its pretty common.
Originally posted by Waterlily Why do PVP players care so much to be accepted by PVE players, go play your games and stop trying to drag people into your drama-ridden cesspools.
Actually it´s the only way around.
It´s PVE players joining PVP games and attempting to convert both the game and community into a PVE one by whining and complaining and demanding changes in the name of "moral and fairness"
We would let you be if you just ate your half of the cake, but when you reach for our strawberries we defend ourselves.
Um...actualy it's BOTH ways...I've EASLY seen just as much gnashing of teeth from PvP'ers or FFA PvPers when a new game gets announced with a PvE focus...that the game should include PvP or have FFA PvP or screaming and yelling that PvP is only restricted to certain zones/areas. Come on...go into any mostly PvE game or games with constricted PvP and tell me you don't see a bushell full of those posts?
For me I'm happy that there are different types of games made for different audiences. I'm happy that FFA PvPers have games that they can play. I'm especialy happy that there will be less of the type of behavior I don't enjoy dealing with in the games I like to play...because people who aren't looking for the same thing that I have will have a place to go.
However, what I DO see is ALOT of complaints from FFA PvP'ers about why so FEW games are made in that format. Why those games tend to be poorly funded, why more people aren't playing those games (so you have more folks to play with) and why some of those Dev's even try to shift the focus of thier games a bit.
Well that's because those games have a VERY LIMITED audience appeal...so there is only room for very few of them and those aren't going to be operating with much budget because they can't get enough players for a high revenue.
If you want to know a secret though...PvP isn't unpopular at ALL. ALOT of people enjoy it in the right context (witness the audience for FPS games)...I myself enjoy it in the right context. ALOT of people who enjoy PvE also enjoy PvP in the right context. ALOT of people are even willing to accept the concept of FFA PvP if it's implimented in a certain way (looking forward to PFO myself which techicaly has FFA PvP but is being designed to limit some of the most negative aspects).
However, very, very few of those people are willing to deal with $sshats who gank them as soon as they come out of the character manager and then corpse camp them to infinity while spewing rubbish. That's not entertaining for most folks. So if you want more FFA PvP games to be made and better funding for them, you're going to need to find a way to deal with the negative aspects of them, so you can actualy get some of those folks who MIGHT be willing to play them if they weren't complete griefests.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Comments
It's not real life. Do I go around killing people in real life and taking all there stuff, do I even want to, no do I hell.
Honestly you anti pvp amateur psychologist white knights are like Mary Whitehouse or something.
Only you find the greifers tend to be the biggest cry babies of the lot when you get them back.
That is one aspect where ffa pvp is like real life. Those that dish it out moan the most when they have to take it back.
For the US Citizens - Mary Whitehouse = an extreme version of Tipper Gore
There are generally controlled ways of solving these problems in PvE games:
Bots: In recently developed games, minimaps display the nodes you need. You can simply find another node and do that. Besides, bots don't generally have gear past the bare essentials and carry little aside from necessities. If they aren't actual people, killing them will not prove a point nor will it stop the bot from rezzing and making their way back to do their function.
Ninja-Looting: Blacklists are a thing of wonder if used properly. I might miss my one chance at that special item but most newer games have drop chances that are higher than 5% for those special items. You can just blacklist the person and run with other people. These players generally have a bad reputation with the community and are well known for their actions.
Mob-trainers: Simply put, be cautious like you would be in a FFA PvP game. If someone looks evil or seems to be doing something abnormal, walk away from that person. If they persist, do something else where that person isn't. These people generally are just looking for some "lulz" and will leave you alone if you don't just take it in the face.
Ninja-mob-killer: Do something else until said buttmuncher has left you alone. Most games have a multitude of other quests and/or objectives that will last you hours. These people are essentially e-bullies.
Gear-Score-Nazis: Generally you can spot these players from a crowd anyways. They pretty much are in love with stats and their flashy armor. Just don't group or associate yourself with them like people do in real life.
In the end, FFA PvP is not the only answer to buttmunchers. Sometimes, it's best just to wait for your opportunity to take it on a later date.
I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.
You can shout that from the roof tops, it's going to fall on deaf ears.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
For some it might, assuming you actualy have the capability of doing so which most of thier victems don't, but for the real griefers it doesn't. They aren't even playing the same game as you. They are playing the "Let me find a way to ruin someone elses day" game. They don't care about thier characters or thier stuff. Everything is simply a tool to allow them to make someone else miserable. For those guys, the only thing that works is the ban-hammer. They exist in PvE games too...but under those rulesets it's very difficult for them to hide thier true intentions of griefing. In FFA PvP, the ruleset lets them easly hide griefing as a legitimate form of play.
I have found this to be true as well. They are also the most likely to run away, combat log, use exploits to win, and whine excessively when they get caught doing any of these things. There's a post near the current end of this thread saying that those people aren't even playing the same game, and I think it's true. I don't know what game they are playing, but it doesn't look like a fun one.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
How do you know what other players are thinking and what their motivation is for playing?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
It occurs to me that if we're going to call people sociopaths, we should at least make sure we understand the term. There's a checklist of behaviors that sociopaths exhibit.
At least 3 of the following:
There's a LOT more to diagnosing people with antisocial personality disorders, including the different types of psychopathy, but nobody here is a psychologist, so nobody here is really qualified to diagnose anyone with anything, but we can at least get an idea of what the term means. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
We're talking about a video game for crying out loud.
Players killing other players pixels in an internet game that is supposed to be fun.
You guys are overthinking this to such an extreme I'm practically speechless.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Players killing other players pixels in an internet game that is supposed to be fun.
You guys are overthinking this to such an extreme I'm practically speechless.
That's silly. You're not practically speechless...you typed out three whole sentences there. You're practically terse at best.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Solid post OP. The gaming community has degenerated, just look at XBOX Live. Sadly that gaming community has been invading the more intelligent and respected gaming community for years. People don't understand what it is to have an actual community in a game anymore. That simple fact has killed a lot of FFA PvP games in development and release.
Richard Bartle had it right, you have to have all the different groups of gamers to create a successful online FFA PvP game. You need your achievers, killers, explorers, and socializers. More importantly you need the expanded list. You need your reds and your blues. You need your griefers and your anti-griefers. Unfortunately, that hasn't been reached in a Fantasy style FFA PvP sandbox in a long time. All you have is an overabundance of Reds...because its easy.
The Blue players should be more abundant than the Reds, or a close balance. But with bad design decisions making it to easy to be a successful Red, that balance has been scewed the wrong way.
If you started punishing the Reds like they did in older games. Lineage II, UO etc. you would have a decent game and a majority of the Anti-FFA hate would go away. The newer gamers would understand that the games they have now are just incomplete.
~~~~~~
A solid community will keep the Reds at bay through communication between the Blue players and the rest of the non PvPing community. The Reds will push back through innercommunication between each other, and at times will wage war on each other. Its a cycle that was seen in the older games that just isn't in the newer games anymore sadly.
And as unfortunate as it is to say, will probably never be again because of the way the gaming community has changed these past several years.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
You don't need insight into anyones thoughts.. that's irrelevant to the discussion.... you simply judge them by thier BEHAVIOR. In PvE (and even in Faction based PvP) most of the BEHAVIOR involved in griefing falls outside the legitimate ruleset of play. In FFA PvP alot of the behavior in griefing falls within or is very close to the legitimate ruleset of play...thus not really something that is actionable.
Think about organized sports. Putting a hard hit on somebody is fully legitimate as long as they have the ball and the play is still active. The person could secretly be a sadist who secretly enjoys inflicting pain but hides it well or they could be a completely decent guy who is just trying to help his team win. As long as the guy is BEHAVING like a decent player...making fair hits, shaking hands at the end of the game, etc... it doesn't really matter what's going on in the guys head because no one is negatively effected by that. One the other hand a guy that is consistantly making cheap, late hits after the whistle has blown and then dancing around taunting the guy he just clocked...well he's probably a complete Punk but it's remotely possible that inside his head he's really a decent guy who's just being thoughtless and idiotic. Doesn't matter because he's BEHAVING like a Punk and that's wrecking the game for the other players...the Ref is going to EJECT him for his BEHAVIOR. Now if there are no rules against late hits and taunting, then you can't eject the Punks and the Idiots...the game suffers and ALOT fewer people are going to be interested in playing.
Actually it´s the only way around.
It´s PVE players joining PVP games and attempting to convert both the game and community into a PVE one by whining and complaining and demanding changes in the name of "moral and fairness"
We would let you be if you just ate your half of the cake, but when you reach for our strawberries we defend ourselves.
Rawr.
Its the other way around most of the time. PVE players jumping to bite the hand of any PvP game or PvPer, because it has a sense of competition you don't like or can't understand.
Those last few words are kinda funny... Drama-ridden cesspools. So you don't enjoy drama, yet your creating it by stating what you did. Not to mention your on a forum that is nothing but drama, 2000+ posts as well, and I am sure they are all Drama Free like the one above. /Sarcasm
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Perhaps we should launch some of those rubber bracelet things and call it pixel aid. Then could make a fortune flogging them to white knights so they can wear them in support if the poor downtrodden losers of pixels.
pretty much the same. The greed is, for me, unnacceptable.
that said im not against raids per say, but i am against greed, so i avoid raiding in these games because they embody it. I have always thought that raids would be alot more fun, interesting and reasonaqble to people if raid events gave raid rewards and not individual rewards. That promotes teamwork and community in my opinion.
im sure not every guild is a greed infested powertrip, but in my experience its pretty common.
Um...actualy it's BOTH ways...I've EASLY seen just as much gnashing of teeth from PvP'ers or FFA PvPers when a new game gets announced with a PvE focus...that the game should include PvP or have FFA PvP or screaming and yelling that PvP is only restricted to certain zones/areas. Come on...go into any mostly PvE game or games with constricted PvP and tell me you don't see a bushell full of those posts?
For me I'm happy that there are different types of games made for different audiences. I'm happy that FFA PvPers have games that they can play. I'm especialy happy that there will be less of the type of behavior I don't enjoy dealing with in the games I like to play...because people who aren't looking for the same thing that I have will have a place to go.
However, what I DO see is ALOT of complaints from FFA PvP'ers about why so FEW games are made in that format. Why those games tend to be poorly funded, why more people aren't playing those games (so you have more folks to play with) and why some of those Dev's even try to shift the focus of thier games a bit.
Well that's because those games have a VERY LIMITED audience appeal...so there is only room for very few of them and those aren't going to be operating with much budget because they can't get enough players for a high revenue.
If you want to know a secret though...PvP isn't unpopular at ALL. ALOT of people enjoy it in the right context (witness the audience for FPS games)...I myself enjoy it in the right context. ALOT of people who enjoy PvE also enjoy PvP in the right context. ALOT of people are even willing to accept the concept of FFA PvP if it's implimented in a certain way (looking forward to PFO myself which techicaly has FFA PvP but is being designed to limit some of the most negative aspects).
However, very, very few of those people are willing to deal with $sshats who gank them as soon as they come out of the character manager and then corpse camp them to infinity while spewing rubbish. That's not entertaining for most folks. So if you want more FFA PvP games to be made and better funding for them, you're going to need to find a way to deal with the negative aspects of them, so you can actualy get some of those folks who MIGHT be willing to play them if they weren't complete griefests.
This is the argument I hate the most.
"They are forcing me to pvp"
(no one is forcing you to buy the game silly)
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Well that's the argument I hate the most.
There are no sandbox games (not really) where forced PvP isn't an option.
Some of us love sandbox, don't love forced PvP, and so are left with... memories of SWG and UO post-Trammel.