If you learn of any promising new games, please let me know!
I'm looking at FFXIV: ARR, Neverwinter, ESO, and a few Korean imports right now.
FFXIV just because I love FF universe/settings/characters and I really hope it offers a lot of compelling party-based gameplay.
Neverwinter almost exclusively for the Foundry.
ESO for their multi-layered progression systems (and general ES love).
Archeage, Black Dessert, etc. from the East for maybe a glimpse at something more unique - but I never hold my breathe for Eastern games to pan out as advertised.
I cant help but agree with you here. They do some things quite marvelously, which you detailed well enough, but I also started missing the trinity about halfway to max level on my first toon. I thought maybe a new toon would help, so after leveling up a 2nd one to max level, dungeons just became unpallatable.
I play with the same group of friends I have been gaming with for around 16 years. While we never claim to be the best at anything, we sure do know how to play well as a group. For us to run into pretty much any dungeon in GW2 and die repeatedly to the point that killing a boss devolved into a mindless zerg till it died, was wholly unsatisfying. There was no sense of accomplishment what-so-ever. We tend to pride ourselves on accomplishing our goals with good efficiency and GW2 just made us feel dirty...
Similar here, gw2 has everything but a sense of progression. Here is an idea for gw2 or indeed any game including wow, 5 mans have same difficulty as raids, and dungeon a gear is needed for dungeon b, but your stats are scaled down to meet the instance requirements. So now the player who plays 20 hours a week has the same opportunities and fun as the player who can sacrifice 20 hours over 4 nights.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I like how there is a paragraph of disclaimers and "dont troll me" comments stating how great the game is, thena massive amount of tesx describing what appears to be a horrible game...why do you feel the need to say its such a great game?
By the same context of "playing it when it was new and leveling was great but endgame sucks" would have applied to SWTOR.
Then the follow up responses, like clockwork, that its not the game...its YOU...your just bured out on mmorpgs...if you dont like GW2 then its you not the game move on ect.
My point is that your right about most of the OP...the game had a huge hype tidal wave and early game was decent...its the endgame, the removal of unique roles like healer and tank, the zerg mechanics, the lack of loot as a long term goal...well lack of any long term goal...all boils this game down to a quick fix game...one that is great for a short time then shelved.
I really have no issue with this type of game, geared for uber casuals...its good this game exists, less people to complain about complexities, the need to make decisions, and ability to "screw up" in other games...i wish this game the best of luck.
I too have noticed nearly a full return of players who left "forever" to go play GW2 since it was going to be the next comming of wow...all are back with not a whole lot of positive reviews...
Sorry to hear it badspock, i still love and play the game frequently but i do agree the game needs more carrots and not just cosmetic carrots either, the game often just does not reward you well for your efforts..
However the game is still only a couple months old and has much that needs to be improved/fixed and is still better than most P2P games that have been around for many years and expansions..
I thought it was a good read, Spock. And I'm thinking the world has changed and so have we. We have become "Pavlovian gamers" (as my friend put it) and it kinda sucks to feel like we're jonesing for the next fix.
@badspock This is what you said to me spock when I hit a wall at 3 weeks and made the thread "Losing intrest fast" (which was locked for some reason..), prior to that thread I had been saying how much fun I was having.
Spock-
"So the entire thread is pointless, and comes off to me (and others) as just a baiting attempt to create yet another black vs. white back and forth BS thread."
"So again, pointless thread - troll bait - no point anymore but to create yet ANOTHER pro vs. con back and forth thread."
You have said a lot of other things to and about me aswell because of how I feel about GW2. The funny thing is, is that you reasons mirror mine. No big deal man. Next time don't be so fast to judge.
My biggest problem TBH was/is that I still have never found a class and weapon set/pair that I love.
Like, I really like the Warrior Shield skills, the MH Sword 1,2 but not 3 and I don't like the Sword Special move.
Guardian, like Greatsword 1, 2, 4 (leap and Symbol) but found the Whirlwind and Throw/Snare lackluster.
Loved the Guardian MH Sword 3, but wish the 2 was a leap instead of a teleport and I don't like 1 (with the 3 round burst thing.)
And when you use the SAME abilities over, and over, and over, and over...
and then you get to high levels and no matter what build and gear you have it takes forever to kill anything...
bleh.
Hmmm...I'm surprised that it took you a while to kill stuff with warrior. With my D/D elementalist, I kill things very fast...and I'm not even specced for damage.
I mean, I know this was your experience, but you may see different results with different gear. GW2 is actually HEAVILY influenced by gear. It may not be a gear-grind game...but getting good gear matters a lot.
My biggest problem TBH was/is that I still have never found a class and weapon set/pair that I love.
Like, I really like the Warrior Shield skills, the MH Sword 1,2 but not 3 and I don't like the Sword Special move.
Guardian, like Greatsword 1, 2, 4 (leap and Symbol) but found the Whirlwind and Throw/Snare lackluster.
Loved the Guardian MH Sword 3, but wish the 2 was a leap instead of a teleport and I don't like 1 (with the 3 round burst thing.)
And when you use the SAME abilities over, and over, and over, and over...
and then you get to high levels and no matter what build and gear you have it takes forever to kill anything...
bleh.
Yep. This is one of my problems with the game. I just don't get it. They had a superior skill system in GW1.....they've had the benefit of all these years of observing other MMOs....how did they not realize this would become monotonous? I really think it's a case of a developer's ego getting in the way.
I leveled my Warrior all the way to 80, but the second I ding'ed I couldn't for the life of my keep playing that character. The idea of using those same attacks over and over to farm or even finish the personal story was just nauseating to me. That's another thing...the personal story became so bad at the end. I was literally skipping through most dialogue because I just wanted to get on with it.
Enough ranting. They did a lot of really cool things with the game...shared nodes, group events, the geography of the world...my god, the geography of the world with all its nook and crannies was simply stunning. I understand the explorer draw there. I have never seen such a detailed world as this one.
Now, if they took the world and events from this game, combined with the story and setting of TOR, with the combat of and possibly PVP of Tera, the progression of a traditional MMORPG...wow this game could have been so amazing all the way through. Ah well.
In the end, for me, GW2 will be remembered for its amazing world geography. Simply unrivaled in an MMO.
People "look back" to traditional sandbox games/mechanics/features because they promoted natural player community dynamics and offered freedom. Those of use often castigated for just wanting a rehash of UO are actually seeking games which provide the same ethos of community driven dynamics, longevity and player freedom within a persistent and dynamic game world.
If you can do that via other methods and mechanics, go for it.
The thing is though recently the emphasis has been 99.99% on accessibility, parity and carrot grinds, something other gaming genres offer.
Sadly, even with EQ Next, Unholy Wars, WoD et al coming up, I really, really can't see the genre gettting back to that ethos of longevity, community and freedom though (outside of indieville).
To some degree yes.
However, times are VERY different now. The mentallity most players had back then, is much different from the ones we have now. In the 'golden days' of MMOs, people were more interested in exploring this new form of gaming. It was more social, but it wasn't always due to game design. It was because things were still new, and players were much more willing to work together trying to figure out this new type of game. It was still a fronteir to explore. Games were also a lot more simple back then. They didn't have as many features, as big of a world, combat was generally fairly simple as well, inspite having a large skillset.
People now expect WAY more from an MMO than what we had back then. The shining example of sandbox atm, is still Eve. It's the only sandbox MMO still going strong. Yet it still doesn't have the same numbers as most of the themeparks. Just being a sandbox isn't going to be enough. Even if we were to bring back UO with modern graphics, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't enough for most players.
Threads like this make me so glad that I discovered Eve...when I first looked into GW2 and the list of features it had I thought "Might have a couple of flashy things in it but still probably a generic themepark, not much better than any other, I'll wait and see what others think of it first". So glad I did that.
It's not that I'm a purely rabid fanboy of spaceships and nothing but. I really do want to find some kind of fantasy MMO for a change of pace and scenery, I really do. Even uber awesome spaceships get tiring after a while, as would too much of anything honestly. But after having been exposed to the deeper levels of Eve and the kind of completely off the wall unscripted stuff that can happen there, I just keep seeing again, and again and again that new MMOs just...don't...have the content. Once you get past the top layer of flashy fluff, there's nothing really there.
Perhaps Eve raised my standards too high...meh, oh well, can't go back now. I'm gonna go blow some cool shit up
Replace all those DPS runes and get yourself a nice set of Dolyak or Earth runes. Put the swords away and pull out the blunt weapons. Rely on HoTs and symbols to keep you and your team alive in the fights. Be a tank...not a DPS warrior.
Seriously though, I'm not knocking ya Spockman, but you say it yourself...you like being a tank/healer. Yet all the way through you talk about trying to be everything but one of those two on the best class to be either. I wont ever admit to be a great tank or a great healer, but I get invites all the time to help on dungeon runs when things aren't going so well. Sure I get the crap beat out of me from time to time, but I can stand and take the punishiment far beyond most. And my boons and HoTs I give my team make them all better off than they would be without me.
I love being a tank in a game that has no tanks, I love being a healer in a game that has no healers. It can be done, you just need to figure out how to make it happen.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
@badspock This is what you said to me spock when I hit a wall at 3 weeks and made the thread "Losing intrest fast" (which was locked for some reason..), prior to that thread I had been saying how much fun I was having.
Spock-
"So the entire thread is pointless, and comes off to me (and others) as just a baiting attempt to create yet another black vs. white back and forth BS thread."
"So again, pointless thread - troll bait - no point anymore but to create yet ANOTHER pro vs. con back and forth thread."
You have said a lot of other things to and about me aswell because of how I feel about GW2. The funny thing is, is that you reasons mirror mine. No big deal man. Next time don't be so fast to judge.
If I remember correctly, your thread made a lot of references to TSW and how you were going back and how much better X was in TSW (and we all know/knew your fanboi-esque love of TSW) so that indeed made your thread "another pointless attempt to create yet another black vs. white troll bait flame war."
Not at all suprised threads like yours got/get locked.
Hmmm...I'm surprised that it took you a while to kill stuff with warrior. With my D/D elementalist, I kill things very fast...and I'm not even specced for damage.
I mean, I know this was your experience, but you may see different results with different gear. GW2 is actually HEAVILY influenced by gear. It may not be a gear-grind game...but getting good gear matters a lot.
I only got my warrior into the 30s, killing stuff w/ him seemed to be much faster than on Guardian - but Guardian really only started having "problems" in the 60-70+ range.
And I did say in OP-
"And yes, I've tried about 6 different trait combinations, weapon combos, etc. On my Guardian at level 77/78 using level 75 Rare weapons, even with the supposed "OP" Greatsword and then Sword/Torch combo. Yes I'm fully Runed 6/6 set w/ Weapon runes, all gear is 75+ blue/green/rare."
So I did think of that (gear issues) and upgraded EVERYTHING.
No the real problem isn't how fast I can kill in PvE while leveling up, though that DOES help to keep things from getting boring.
It's that once I do hit 80... what are my options?
Dynamic events are all AoE zerg fests - at least in my experience - which is a big "no thanks."
I don't like the dungeons at all - they just don't feel solid/polished without that role-based party experience.
First off - want to say that I still think GW2 is a great game for what it is - the quality is high, the fun is worth the price of admission, and I still stand by my original review/op-ed that GW2 is an amazing game.
But I'm just not sure it's for me.
Longevity was always my biggest concern with GW2 - and I've hit that slump.
I know I'll be back, probably often as the business model is perfect for me - the "modern" MMO gamer who hops from game to game and can't stay interested in one thing for too long.
But i've just hit a wall.
-My main is level 77 or 78, and I've been seriously let down.
-Finally did a big dragon fight, Taquatl the Sunless - complete and total failure. Extremely disappointing. Right now it’s pretty much attack dragon -> get feared out of place -> run back and continue spamming.
-Finally got into Orr, 70-75 zone anyways. Extremely disappointing. What I thought/hoped would be a PvE battleground type experience (PvE WvW) is actually in fact just Zerg Merry-Go-Round.
Hop on the train, ride along the zerg from point A to B to C back to A again.
-Halloween event has thus far been extremely disappointing. Candy corn? Who cares, sell it all in TP. Costumes? Don't care. Costume brawl? Not even fun - randomly kicking around LA by Mystic Forge.
Couldn't figure out how to make the damn scanner work / figure it out - not going to cheat and google it. Pointless.
-WvW I have very little interest in. So many complaints of zergs, bugs/broken, lack of any real reason to care, and long wait times.
-sPvP I have very little interest in. Rewards / prestige don't match input. I get a lot of fun out of progression in PvP like in CoD or BF3 or Halo games, haven't found any reason to care about winning/losing in sPvP yet.
-Lost pretty much all interest in crafting, lost all interest in zone completion and grinding Hearts.
-I've run a handful of story mode and explorable mode dungeons. Where are the rewards? Where is the loot? Couple of shitty blues? 10-15 minute corpse hopping bosses? There is no skill/strategy there. And what's it all for, some cool looking cosmetic rewards (and the 10% stat bonus of Exotics?)
-Personal story is a bit of a miss. These "epic" events in the Vigil line are anything but. Apparently a "massive undead siege of Orrians" is 10-15 mobs. The scale and sense of epicness is just pathetic. Limitation of the MMO genre I suppose.
I still get some fun out of toying around with other classes (like right now a Mesmer) but I know if I play for too long I'm going to hit that wall and get bored again in like an hour.
Where's the "dynamic" in the dynamic events?
Where's the point of sPvP / WvW? I get a much better sense of achievement playing Halo or back in UO Factions where taking control of a city/town actually felt like it mattered.
Where is the feeling of accomplishment for doing a great job in a run? It's made me realize I really do miss the Trinity - I hate to say it, but I do. I've always been a Tank/Healer - and I've always strived to be a damn good one too. That was my main feeling of accomplishment beyond just the gear rewards and stat progression - knowing I was good at my job.
Now don't get me wrong - GW2 does some things absolutely great.
1. The combat is fun and exciting, for a while, but the limited skills per Weapon contibutes to getting bored fast. Cooldowns are too long, spend too much time auto-attacking and waiting for cooldowns or being forced to switch to your second set.
I've also grown frustrated for how weak I feel. The pace of combat was so much better at earlier levels. I had this problem MAJOR bad with TOR - fights just take too long for no reason. It doesn't make me feel like a "hero" when I can't cut through swaths of baddies with ease.
Sure, I like having elite/champion/veteran mobs that take a bit of effort to kill. That's fun. But I don't like feeling like I'm hitting with a wet noodle against normal mobs. TOR made this mistake BIG time, and the only MMO where I never felt this way - is WoW.
And yes, I've tried about 6 different trait combinations, weapon combos, etc. On my Guardian at level 77/78 using level 75 Rare weapons, even with the supposed "OP" Greatsword and then Sword/Torch combo. Yes I'm fully Runed 6/6 set w/ Weapon runes, all gear is 75+ blue/green/rare.
The utility skills feel weak. Great for situational help, but I have yet to press ANY button in any class at any level in GW2 where I felt like "Wow, I love this ability it is so freaking cool and awesome."
2. Quality of life features like "Send to Collections" is great. Trading Post from anywhere is superb. No competition for harvesting nodes is splendid. Overflow servers is freak'n brilliant. Dye system and "dye anything anywhere" is amazing. Not quite as great as it'd be with an appearance tab, but the Dye system is awesome.
3. No kill stealing, everyone gets loot, never a bad idea to help another player, cross-profession combos with anyone outside of grouping etc. is awesome and a huge, huge step forward in PvE.
I guess, as sad as it is at the end of the day... I need the carrot. The gameplay is just not sufficiently fun enough to keep me interested without the carrot to chase.
I need the Trinity, I need to have a role I am good at.
I think I'm about done with the MMORPG genre to be honest. I have a feeling I am never going to find a single game I am going to play for months and years on end without breaks.
Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm just like the rest. I will probably end up like the rest bouncing from game to game, new release to new release like an addict chasing the next fix.
The dream of "the game to stick with" is gone for me.
I've hit MMORPG rock bottom.
This is BadSpock, signing off...
+1
I couldnt have said it better than this if i tried.
Im going the other way, im jumping on Darkfall 2 for some good old hardcore sandbox pvp.
The modern mmo's makes me want to quit playing mmo's. SWTOR, TSW and GW2. So much hope and it all ended in utter failure.
I couldnt have said it better than this if i tried.
Im going the other way, im jumping on Darkfall 2 for some good old hardcore sandbox pvp.
The modern mmo's makes me want to quit playing mmo's. SWTOR, TSW and GW2. So much hope and it all ended in utter failure.
I would kill a man (literally) for a game with:
-UO / Elder Scrolls style skill-based leveling (and I loved the way they did the "talent trees" in Skyrim)
-FPS combat as good as Skyrim/Oblivion
-PvE sandbox like UO Trammel or SWG
-UO/SWG housing (though the way Korean Black Desert is doing it is my favorite implementation of housing - more like Fable)
-completely optional PvP (either flagging like SWG or "dark side shard" of UO Felucca)
-even an ounce of AAA quality/polish
-It could have open world dungeons like UO or do instanced and be more like Skyrim or both (imagine if Skyrim was MMO but each of the 200+ dungeons was it's own instance i.e. you zone into.)
-modern Graphics
-gear/item progression (yes also including PvE raiding)
Sadly, Darkfall is not that game. Darkfall 2 doesn't look to be that game.
I just hit 80 on my engineer. I had to grind crafting to get there. I leveled pve to about 33 and couldn't stand it anymore.. I mastered tailor,leather,armor,cooking, and huntsman to get there. I knew that endgame gear was just about looks but I foolishly thought it would have a slight edge to lesser rares. I was wrong.
I was pretty sad when I looked at the exotics and rares and they were the same stats and only the graphics made them "worth it". I've been doing wvw and it's ok I guess, I am not the type of person to go with a zerg. It isn't fun just running in a giant horde of players and spamming buttons in a lag storm hoping not to get focused.
The halloween event was fun towards the end, overall thought I just play because I have nothing better to play. I feel the same things as BadSpock..
My friend went back to eq1 and is enjoying it still but I just can't go back to it, to much has changed... being an mmo nomad is lonely.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
I just hit 80 on my engineer. I had to grind crafting to get there. I leveled pve to about 33 and couldn't stand it anymore.. I mastered tailor,leather,armor,cooking, and huntsman to get there. I knew that endgame gear was just about looks but I foolishly thought it would have a slight edge to lesser rares. I was wrong.
I was pretty sad when I looked at the exotics and rares and they were the same stats and only the graphics made them "worth it". I've been doing wvw and it's ok I guess, I am not the type of person to go with a zerg. It isn't fun just running in a giant horde of players and spamming buttons in a lag storm hoping not to get focused.
The halloween event was fun towards the end, overall thought I just play because I have nothing better to play. I feel the same things as BadSpock..
My friend went back to eq1 and is enjoying it still but I just can't go back to it, to much has changed... being an mmo nomad is lonely.
Exotics and rares have different stats. Exotics have ~13% better stats.
@badspock This is what you said to me spock when I hit a wall at 3 weeks and made the thread "Losing intrest fast" (which was locked for some reason..), prior to that thread I had been saying how much fun I was having.
Spock-
"So the entire thread is pointless, and comes off to me (and others) as just a baiting attempt to create yet another black vs. white back and forth BS thread."
"So again, pointless thread - troll bait - no point anymore but to create yet ANOTHER pro vs. con back and forth thread."
You have said a lot of other things to and about me aswell because of how I feel about GW2. The funny thing is, is that you reasons mirror mine. No big deal man. Next time don't be so fast to judge.
If I remember correctly, your thread made a lot of references to TSW and how you were going back and how much better X was in TSW (and we all know/knew your fanboi-esque love of TSW) so that indeed made your thread "another pointless attempt to create yet another black vs. white troll bait flame war."
Not at all suprised threads like yours got/get locked.
It's all about tone and presentation.
Geez dude your still doing it. Way to quick to judge. I'll link to refresh your memory. My point is that I made a post about losing intrest just like you made a post about not enjoying your time, but (mine was a little less scathing imo) I wouldn't call your thread pointless and flame-bait. It's your critique of the game.
We are all different people, thus our opinions don't always line up on what's good and what's bad. I feel as long as we as a community are honest in our opinion the genre will grow. Who knows we may even get a game you and I both enjoy.
Geez dude your still doing it. Way to quick to judge. I'll link to refresh your memory. My point is that I made a post about losing intrest just like you made a post about not enjoying your time, but (mine was a little less scathing imo) I wouldn't call your thread pointless and flame-bait. It's your critique of the game.
We are all different people, thus our opinions don't always line up on what's good and what's bad. I feel as long as we as a community are honest in our opinion the genre will grow. Who knows we may even get a game you and I both enjoy.
Your OP in that thread was/is fine.
At that time I was just a little miffed with you as you had been bashing GW2 for weeks and weeks and weeks - on a crusade it seemed like.
Then you made that thread and I was like... "Umm no duh you didn't enjoy it you seem to have hated it for months!"
I probably was a bit too pointed in my response, my apologies.
I think I was just pissed you were a spotlight poster after writing all the junk you did about how good TSW was - how it was a GoTY candidate - and how you once tried copy/pasting positive User-Reviews from Metacritic in a TSW thread...
I think a negative thread like this one from a poster (me) who had very positive things to say initially is a lot, lot less of a flame bait /troll attemp then a "known hater" making yet ANOTHER negative thread.
But in the end, you are right (from my perspective) about your opinions and feelings regarding GW2. I still don't get your love for TSW though...
I couldnt have said it better than this if i tried.
Im going the other way, im jumping on Darkfall 2 for some good old hardcore sandbox pvp.
The modern mmo's makes me want to quit playing mmo's. SWTOR, TSW and GW2. So much hope and it all ended in utter failure.
I would kill a man (literally) for a game with:
-UO / Elder Scrolls style skill-based leveling (and I loved the way they did the "talent trees" in Skyrim)
-FPS combat as good as Skyrim/Oblivion
-PvE sandbox like UO Trammel or SWG
-UO/SWG housing (though the way Korean Black Desert is doing it is my favorite implementation of housing - more like Fable)
-completely optional PvP (either flagging like SWG or "dark side shard" of UO Felucca)
-even an ounce of AAA quality/polish
-It could have open world dungeons like UO or do instanced and be more like Skyrim or both (imagine if Skyrim was MMO but each of the 200+ dungeons was it's own instance i.e. you zone into.)
-modern Graphics
-gear/item progression (yes also including PvE raiding)
Sadly, Darkfall is not that game. Darkfall 2 doesn't look to be that game.
You have to love ffa pvp, siege warfare (ffa) and min/maxing of characters to love games like this.
I agree alot of what you said in your post, but what i miss the most is the community. The drama on the forums, the fighting, the enemies, and the people at your side fighting/gaming.
I have played mmorpg's since 1999 and im tired the easy games they make, and the fact that most guilds i "should" join to have fun is full of kids that could have been my kids
Im just to casual to be hardcore anymore. Before i got familly and kids and responsibilitys at work, i was at the top of my game. Now i wonder if im ever going to enjoy gaming anymore because i cant be at the top of " my " game anymore. It just takes to much time.
I thought at starting a casual guild for 35+aged people, but i dont have time to run it like i used to do in the old days
Ive looked at my attention span on other solo games on steam etc now, and im down to aprox 20 hours before i implode and log out This just repeats itself.
So your not alone. I think its real life messing us up, not the games. But i also enjoy my real life, so there it goes
Sorry for the rant. I just wanted to throw something out there to let you know your not alone.
Right now im going to try the lone killer in Darkfall 2, just because i need a game that challenging. Maybe ill join a guild if its not full of morons, but i doubt i have the time for it. Maybe just log on to farm a few, fight a couple fights, then log of.
One thing is for certain, returning to old games arent the answer, because what you had is gone, and you will never get it back.
Sorry to hear all of that Badspock. That game did not hold my attention very long. I will probably check it out down the road maybe. I understand you wanting to quit the genre of MMO's altogether. I myself have felt this but there are some great games coming down the horizon that do seem promising. Mainly Archeage. Hang in there. I was going to quit the genre a few MMO's back but I have hope it has just been in a crappy slump the last few years and they are going to get out of it. The Repopulation has my interest as I like Day Z and The War Z. Everquest Next with Smedley saying it is going to be the biggest sandbox from an MMO ever.
Blade and Soul looks decent too. Really for years I have been waiting for Archeage because it seems promising. Maybe it is overhyped maybe not but from everything I read about it from people who have tried it they love it. I have hope for it. After that who knows. Every other game I have been playing I just call them "filler games" In the end gaming is my hobby so if I game hop so be it I have accepted that is how it goes with todays games. Don't give up it is just going to be like another year before we start seeing some decent titles.
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i was away 1 week and come in again and having a blast again, playing in periods and with friendly guild helps a lot,
I'm looking at FFXIV: ARR, Neverwinter, ESO, and a few Korean imports right now.
FFXIV just because I love FF universe/settings/characters and I really hope it offers a lot of compelling party-based gameplay.
Neverwinter almost exclusively for the Foundry.
ESO for their multi-layered progression systems (and general ES love).
Archeage, Black Dessert, etc. from the East for maybe a glimpse at something more unique - but I never hold my breathe for Eastern games to pan out as advertised.
I cant help but agree with you here. They do some things quite marvelously, which you detailed well enough, but I also started missing the trinity about halfway to max level on my first toon. I thought maybe a new toon would help, so after leveling up a 2nd one to max level, dungeons just became unpallatable.
I play with the same group of friends I have been gaming with for around 16 years. While we never claim to be the best at anything, we sure do know how to play well as a group. For us to run into pretty much any dungeon in GW2 and die repeatedly to the point that killing a boss devolved into a mindless zerg till it died, was wholly unsatisfying. There was no sense of accomplishment what-so-ever. We tend to pride ourselves on accomplishing our goals with good efficiency and GW2 just made us feel dirty...
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I like how there is a paragraph of disclaimers and "dont troll me" comments stating how great the game is, thena massive amount of tesx describing what appears to be a horrible game...why do you feel the need to say its such a great game?
By the same context of "playing it when it was new and leveling was great but endgame sucks" would have applied to SWTOR.
Then the follow up responses, like clockwork, that its not the game...its YOU...your just bured out on mmorpgs...if you dont like GW2 then its you not the game move on ect.
My point is that your right about most of the OP...the game had a huge hype tidal wave and early game was decent...its the endgame, the removal of unique roles like healer and tank, the zerg mechanics, the lack of loot as a long term goal...well lack of any long term goal...all boils this game down to a quick fix game...one that is great for a short time then shelved.
I really have no issue with this type of game, geared for uber casuals...its good this game exists, less people to complain about complexities, the need to make decisions, and ability to "screw up" in other games...i wish this game the best of luck.
I too have noticed nearly a full return of players who left "forever" to go play GW2 since it was going to be the next comming of wow...all are back with not a whole lot of positive reviews...
Sorry to hear it badspock, i still love and play the game frequently but i do agree the game needs more carrots and not just cosmetic carrots either, the game often just does not reward you well for your efforts..
However the game is still only a couple months old and has much that needs to be improved/fixed and is still better than most P2P games that have been around for many years and expansions..
Playing GW2..
I thought it was a good read, Spock. And I'm thinking the world has changed and so have we. We have become "Pavlovian gamers" (as my friend put it) and it kinda sucks to feel like we're jonesing for the next fix.
My biggest problem TBH was/is that I still have never found a class and weapon set/pair that I love.
Like, I really like the Warrior Shield skills, the MH Sword 1,2 but not 3 and I don't like the Sword Special move.
Guardian, like Greatsword 1, 2, 4 (leap and Symbol) but found the Whirlwind and Throw/Snare lackluster.
Loved the Guardian MH Sword 3, but wish the 2 was a leap instead of a teleport and I don't like 1 (with the 3 round burst thing.)
And when you use the SAME abilities over, and over, and over, and over...
and then you get to high levels and no matter what build and gear you have it takes forever to kill anything...
bleh.
@badspock This is what you said to me spock when I hit a wall at 3 weeks and made the thread "Losing intrest fast" (which was locked for some reason..), prior to that thread I had been saying how much fun I was having.
Spock-
"So the entire thread is pointless, and comes off to me (and others) as just a baiting attempt to create yet another black vs. white back and forth BS thread."
"So again, pointless thread - troll bait - no point anymore but to create yet ANOTHER pro vs. con back and forth thread."
You have said a lot of other things to and about me aswell because of how I feel about GW2. The funny thing is, is that you reasons mirror mine. No big deal man. Next time don't be so fast to judge.
Hmmm...I'm surprised that it took you a while to kill stuff with warrior. With my D/D elementalist, I kill things very fast...and I'm not even specced for damage.
I mean, I know this was your experience, but you may see different results with different gear. GW2 is actually HEAVILY influenced by gear. It may not be a gear-grind game...but getting good gear matters a lot.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Yep. This is one of my problems with the game. I just don't get it. They had a superior skill system in GW1.....they've had the benefit of all these years of observing other MMOs....how did they not realize this would become monotonous? I really think it's a case of a developer's ego getting in the way.
I leveled my Warrior all the way to 80, but the second I ding'ed I couldn't for the life of my keep playing that character. The idea of using those same attacks over and over to farm or even finish the personal story was just nauseating to me. That's another thing...the personal story became so bad at the end. I was literally skipping through most dialogue because I just wanted to get on with it.
Enough ranting. They did a lot of really cool things with the game...shared nodes, group events, the geography of the world...my god, the geography of the world with all its nook and crannies was simply stunning. I understand the explorer draw there. I have never seen such a detailed world as this one.
Now, if they took the world and events from this game, combined with the story and setting of TOR, with the combat of and possibly PVP of Tera, the progression of a traditional MMORPG...wow this game could have been so amazing all the way through. Ah well.
In the end, for me, GW2 will be remembered for its amazing world geography. Simply unrivaled in an MMO.
Threads like this make me so glad that I discovered Eve...when I first looked into GW2 and the list of features it had I thought "Might have a couple of flashy things in it but still probably a generic themepark, not much better than any other, I'll wait and see what others think of it first". So glad I did that.
It's not that I'm a purely rabid fanboy of spaceships and nothing but. I really do want to find some kind of fantasy MMO for a change of pace and scenery, I really do. Even uber awesome spaceships get tiring after a while, as would too much of anything honestly. But after having been exposed to the deeper levels of Eve and the kind of completely off the wall unscripted stuff that can happen there, I just keep seeing again, and again and again that new MMOs just...don't...have the content. Once you get past the top layer of flashy fluff, there's nothing really there.
Perhaps Eve raised my standards too high...meh, oh well, can't go back now. I'm gonna go blow some cool shit up
Where's the any key?
If you like to tank and heal, then build your guardian to do exactly that. It does work in GW2.
http://www.gw2builds.org/create/bwe_1/guardian#4.1.1.0-3.12.17.8.0-20.0.0.30.20-10.2.10.12.1.10.11
Replace all those DPS runes and get yourself a nice set of Dolyak or Earth runes. Put the swords away and pull out the blunt weapons. Rely on HoTs and symbols to keep you and your team alive in the fights. Be a tank...not a DPS warrior.
Seriously though, I'm not knocking ya Spockman, but you say it yourself...you like being a tank/healer. Yet all the way through you talk about trying to be everything but one of those two on the best class to be either. I wont ever admit to be a great tank or a great healer, but I get invites all the time to help on dungeon runs when things aren't going so well. Sure I get the crap beat out of me from time to time, but I can stand and take the punishiment far beyond most. And my boons and HoTs I give my team make them all better off than they would be without me.
I love being a tank in a game that has no tanks, I love being a healer in a game that has no healers. It can be done, you just need to figure out how to make it happen.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
If I remember correctly, your thread made a lot of references to TSW and how you were going back and how much better X was in TSW (and we all know/knew your fanboi-esque love of TSW) so that indeed made your thread "another pointless attempt to create yet another black vs. white troll bait flame war."
Not at all suprised threads like yours got/get locked.
It's all about tone and presentation.
I only got my warrior into the 30s, killing stuff w/ him seemed to be much faster than on Guardian - but Guardian really only started having "problems" in the 60-70+ range.
And I did say in OP-
"And yes, I've tried about 6 different trait combinations, weapon combos, etc. On my Guardian at level 77/78 using level 75 Rare weapons, even with the supposed "OP" Greatsword and then Sword/Torch combo. Yes I'm fully Runed 6/6 set w/ Weapon runes, all gear is 75+ blue/green/rare."
So I did think of that (gear issues) and upgraded EVERYTHING.
No the real problem isn't how fast I can kill in PvE while leveling up, though that DOES help to keep things from getting boring.
It's that once I do hit 80... what are my options?
Dynamic events are all AoE zerg fests - at least in my experience - which is a big "no thanks."
I don't like the dungeons at all - they just don't feel solid/polished without that role-based party experience.
+1
I couldnt have said it better than this if i tried.
Im going the other way, im jumping on Darkfall 2 for some good old hardcore sandbox pvp.
The modern mmo's makes me want to quit playing mmo's. SWTOR, TSW and GW2. So much hope and it all ended in utter failure.
I would kill a man (literally) for a game with:
-UO / Elder Scrolls style skill-based leveling (and I loved the way they did the "talent trees" in Skyrim)
-FPS combat as good as Skyrim/Oblivion
-PvE sandbox like UO Trammel or SWG
-UO/SWG housing (though the way Korean Black Desert is doing it is my favorite implementation of housing - more like Fable)
-completely optional PvP (either flagging like SWG or "dark side shard" of UO Felucca)
-even an ounce of AAA quality/polish
-It could have open world dungeons like UO or do instanced and be more like Skyrim or both (imagine if Skyrim was MMO but each of the 200+ dungeons was it's own instance i.e. you zone into.)
-modern Graphics
-gear/item progression (yes also including PvE raiding)
Sadly, Darkfall is not that game. Darkfall 2 doesn't look to be that game.
I'm curious as to whether people have different opinions depending on whether they are in guilds or not.
I still find lots to do in this game, but a lot of it is more fun because of the guild...WvW being a prime example.
I just hit 80 on my engineer. I had to grind crafting to get there. I leveled pve to about 33 and couldn't stand it anymore.. I mastered tailor,leather,armor,cooking, and huntsman to get there. I knew that endgame gear was just about looks but I foolishly thought it would have a slight edge to lesser rares. I was wrong.
I was pretty sad when I looked at the exotics and rares and they were the same stats and only the graphics made them "worth it". I've been doing wvw and it's ok I guess, I am not the type of person to go with a zerg. It isn't fun just running in a giant horde of players and spamming buttons in a lag storm hoping not to get focused.
The halloween event was fun towards the end, overall thought I just play because I have nothing better to play. I feel the same things as BadSpock..
My friend went back to eq1 and is enjoying it still but I just can't go back to it, to much has changed... being an mmo nomad is lonely.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Exotics and rares have different stats. Exotics have ~13% better stats.
Geez dude your still doing it. Way to quick to judge. I'll link to refresh your memory. My point is that I made a post about losing intrest just like you made a post about not enjoying your time, but (mine was a little less scathing imo) I wouldn't call your thread pointless and flame-bait. It's your critique of the game.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/364919/page/1
We are all different people, thus our opinions don't always line up on what's good and what's bad. I feel as long as we as a community are honest in our opinion the genre will grow. Who knows we may even get a game you and I both enjoy.
Your OP in that thread was/is fine.
At that time I was just a little miffed with you as you had been bashing GW2 for weeks and weeks and weeks - on a crusade it seemed like.
Then you made that thread and I was like... "Umm no duh you didn't enjoy it you seem to have hated it for months!"
I probably was a bit too pointed in my response, my apologies.
I think I was just pissed you were a spotlight poster after writing all the junk you did about how good TSW was - how it was a GoTY candidate - and how you once tried copy/pasting positive User-Reviews from Metacritic in a TSW thread...
I think a negative thread like this one from a poster (me) who had very positive things to say initially is a lot, lot less of a flame bait /troll attemp then a "known hater" making yet ANOTHER negative thread.
But in the end, you are right (from my perspective) about your opinions and feelings regarding GW2. I still don't get your love for TSW though...
You have to love ffa pvp, siege warfare (ffa) and min/maxing of characters to love games like this.
I agree alot of what you said in your post, but what i miss the most is the community. The drama on the forums, the fighting, the enemies, and the people at your side fighting/gaming.
I have played mmorpg's since 1999 and im tired the easy games they make, and the fact that most guilds i "should" join to have fun is full of kids that could have been my kids
Im just to casual to be hardcore anymore. Before i got familly and kids and responsibilitys at work, i was at the top of my game. Now i wonder if im ever going to enjoy gaming anymore because i cant be at the top of " my " game anymore. It just takes to much time.
I thought at starting a casual guild for 35+aged people, but i dont have time to run it like i used to do in the old days
Ive looked at my attention span on other solo games on steam etc now, and im down to aprox 20 hours before i implode and log out
This just repeats itself.
So your not alone. I think its real life messing us up, not the games. But i also enjoy my real life, so there it goes
Sorry for the rant. I just wanted to throw something out there to let you know your not alone.
Right now im going to try the lone killer in Darkfall 2, just because i need a game that challenging. Maybe ill join a guild if its not full of morons, but i doubt i have the time for it. Maybe just log on to farm a few, fight a couple fights, then log of.
One thing is for certain, returning to old games arent the answer, because what you had is gone, and you will never get it back.
PS. English is not my native language.
Sorry to hear all of that Badspock. That game did not hold my attention very long. I will probably check it out down the road maybe. I understand you wanting to quit the genre of MMO's altogether. I myself have felt this but there are some great games coming down the horizon that do seem promising. Mainly Archeage. Hang in there. I was going to quit the genre a few MMO's back but I have hope it has just been in a crappy slump the last few years and they are going to get out of it. The Repopulation has my interest as I like Day Z and The War Z. Everquest Next with Smedley saying it is going to be the biggest sandbox from an MMO ever.
Blade and Soul looks decent too. Really for years I have been waiting for Archeage because it seems promising. Maybe it is overhyped maybe not but from everything I read about it from people who have tried it they love it. I have hope for it. After that who knows. Every other game I have been playing I just call them "filler games" In the end gaming is my hobby so if I game hop so be it I have accepted that is how it goes with todays games. Don't give up it is just going to be like another year before we start seeing some decent titles.