To all those "I'd rather pay the subscription" gamers. TSW says differently.

worldalpha

From an interview of theirs:

Bylos: Yeah. We tried with the subscription model and we knew the momentum was against us, especially in the gamer mindset. People have become more and more fed up with subscriptions.

Bylos: Oh, we do. We tried to be a responsible subscription company and release something every month to give value for that money. Ignoring that I work here, I felt that as a gamer, that is what I’d want to see from a subscription game. But it really hasn’t paid off in the end, so we have to make some changes to bring more people in. But in terms of the subscription dying, I think Blizzard are laughing at us all from atop their thrones. Whenever I hear people say that subs are dead, I point to the biggest money-makers in the industry.

 

So, even though I hear time and again, people here saying the would rather pay a subscription, it doesn't look like that is really a reality anymore, unless your name is Blizzard.

MyTabbycat

IF an MMO gave players what they wanted, they would be willing to pay a sub for it. The problem is gamers are a lot pickier now than they used to be. There's been a flood of MMO's on the market and with so many very nice AAA MMO's that don't have a sub, players know they don't have to pay one to get a good quality game.

Also it seems a lot of players simply don't know exactly what it is they want in an MMO. They want it to be different but at the same time have elements of their favorite games. However, if it's too similar to their favorite game, the new game gets labled a clone.

I really do feel for developers trying to create new games in this market. As a comedian might say, it's a tough crowd.

Lissyl

It's not so much that people -want- to pay a subscription as it is that a subscription-based game is, for the most part, a surer sign of quality than what f2p games have been and so, given the choice between what most f2p games have been and a subscription, a subscription wins to those people (of which I am one).  The f2p as an extended trial with a subscription being offered also is, to me, always going to beat a cash shop-driven game because I can buy the subscription - and I do.  If it's cash-shop driven, then I won't give it the time of day.  The only exception that I've seen to that was Aion because its f2p implementation was spectacular...but apparently didn't work out so well for NCSoft.  Unfortunately, pvp ruined that game for me in the mid-40's.

skydiver12

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Originally posted by worldalpha
From an interview of theirs:

Bylos: Yeah. We tried with the subscription model and we knew the momentum was against us, especially in the gamer mindset. People have become more and more fed up with subscriptions.

Bylos: Oh, we do. We tried to be a responsible subscription company and release something every month to give value for that money. Ignoring that I work here, I felt that as a gamer, that is what I’d want to see from a subscription game. But it really hasn’t paid off in the end, so we have to make some changes to bring more people in. But in terms of the subscription dying, I think Blizzard are laughing at us all from atop their thrones. Whenever I hear people say that subs are dead, I point to the biggest money-makers in the industry.

 

So, even though I hear time and again, people here saying the would rather pay a subscription, it doesn't look like that is really a reality anymore, unless your name is Blizzard.

---

Oh responsible as having a shop right from the start and offering unique appearance items in it?
(Note: Appearance customizing is not optional contend especially in a roleplay heavy game).

Besides the endgame is item threadmill combined with the usual broken pvp system due to gear > skill, and nothing else to do after the story gameplay as dungeon runs.

People stuck in the mindset of payment will concentrate and design around payment, and so are blind to the reasons why they don't get suffice payment despite the payment model they use.

Asm0deus

Originally posted by MyTabbycat

IF an MMO gave players what they wanted, they would be willing to pay a sub for it. The problem is gamers are a lot pickier now than they used to be. There's been a flood of MMO's on the market and with so many very nice AAA MMO's that don't have a sub, players know they don't have to pay one to get a good quality game.

Also it seems a lot of players simply don't know exactly what it is they want in an MMO. They want it to be different but at the same time have elements of their favorite games. However, if it's too similar to their favorite game, the new game gets labled a clone.

I really do feel for developers trying to create new games in this market. As a comedian might say, it's a tough crowd.

While there is some truth to this it's not the only thing, there more and more AAA f2p games now and not all are p2w etc.  The populations mindset and current global economy has much to do with this new trend.

You must also add the fact that once consumers get used to an idea they like it is very hard to get them to go back to an older method of doing things.

 

It's not as simple as give them what they want and they will happily run back to paying a sub, this is  not to say some wouldn't though,  just saying you can't say the majority of gamer would.

 

Ryowulf

If you make a good, well rounded game people will pay a sub.  Its not enough to have some great features, but be sub-par everywhere else.

TSW does some things very well, but they get a lot of things wrong.

SWToR is a wow clone, but could still have done better by focusing less on the voice story (which you will never be able to get fresh content for fast enough) and more on the overall game.

When Devs of these game say sub is dead, what they mean is people expect more if they are paying a sub.

Oh and don't think TSW wasn't planning on ending sub at some point right from the start.

mindw0rk

Im Lifetime sub owner and I think switching to F2P is the right decision. More people will now enjoy the game

TheLizardbones

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Originally posted by Ryowulf
If you make a good, well rounded game people will pay a sub.  Its not enough to have some great features, but be sub-par everywhere else.TSW does some things very well, but they get a lot of things wrong.SWToR is a wow clone, but could still have done better by focusing less on the voice story (which you will never be able to get fresh content for fast enough) and more on the overall game.When Devs of these game say sub is dead, what they mean is people expect more if they are paying a sub.Oh and don't think TSW wasn't planning on ending sub at some point right from the start.

---

I'll probably never pay a subscription again. There's plenty of stuff I can play that doesn't require a subscription, and now there are MMOs starting to release that don't require a subscription either. I'm good with B2P and non-free downloadable content in the future. Works perfectly fine for me.

Sovrath

Originally posted by worldalpha

From an interview of theirs:

Bylos: Yeah. We tried with the subscription model and we knew the momentum was against us, especially in the gamer mindset. People have become more and more fed up with subscriptions.

Bylos: Oh, we do. We tried to be a responsible subscription company and release something every month to give value for that money. Ignoring that I work here, I felt that as a gamer, that is what I’d want to see from a subscription game. But it really hasn’t paid off in the end, so we have to make some changes to bring more people in. But in terms of the subscription dying, I think Blizzard are laughing at us all from atop their thrones. Whenever I hear people say that subs are dead, I point to the biggest money-makers in the industry.

 

So, even though I hear time and again, people here saying the would rather pay a subscription, it doesn't look like that is really a reality anymore, unless your name is Blizzard.

That's specious reasoning.

There are players who are more than willing to pay a subscription. The issue is not whether there are players who are willing or not willing to pay but are there "enough" players actually interested in this particular game.

My sense is that this game has a smaller audience than other games. Funcom should have know that but for some reason they thought they were making a game that was going to have some sort of mass appeal and thus draw in a lot of subscribers.

Lowering the bar and making it buy to play (which is what it is) will draw in players who are curious. Whether they spend any more money on their cash shop is another thing that remains to be seen.

Rayshe

Given that im likely going to continue the subscription to gain access to all the new DLC upon its release, nothing is changing for me.

Xiaoki

People have become more and more fed up with bad MMOs.

Release an MMO thats worth $15 a month and people will pay $15 a month. Its really just that simple.

Fearum

Using this a marketing ploy to try and get more people into the game does not mean the Sub plan is a failure. It just means they have failed at trying to make it big with a sub. Yes they will get a surge of people that buy the game but it does not mean that the longevity of the game is automatically fixed now.

Trudge34

Originally posted by Xiaoki

People have become more and more fed up with bad MMOs.

Release an MMO thats worth $15 a month and people will pay $15 a month. Its really just that simple.

This. ^^

The recent F2P surge has nothing to do with an outdated model or people not willing to pay a sub. It's just accurately reflecting the state of the genre. There's not much out there worth paying the sub fee for. The quality of the games are down. The diversity is not there. Many of the games that have come out all have that "been here, done that" feel to them. 

Larsa

Originally posted by worldalpha

From an interview of theirs:

Bylos: Yeah. We tried with the subscription model and we knew the momentum was against us, especially in the gamer mindset. People have become more and more fed up with subscriptions.

Bylos: Oh, we do. We tried to be a responsible subscription company and release something every month to give value for that money. Ignoring that I work here, I felt that as a gamer, that is what I’d want to see from a subscription game. But it really hasn’t paid off in the end, so we have to make some changes to bring more people in. But in terms of the subscription dying, I think Blizzard are laughing at us all from atop their thrones. Whenever I hear people say that subs are dead, I point to the biggest money-makers in the industry.

 

So, even though I hear time and again, people here saying the would rather pay a subscription, it doesn't look like that is really a reality anymore, unless your name is Blizzard.

Not sure how you arrived at your conclusion, Bylos even confirmed that subscriptions aren't dead and that subscriptions are in fact the biggest money-maker in the industry. And not only for Blizzard like you claim - you might want to look at a few other games earning good money with subscriptions, EvE and Rift amongst them.

tocsix

Originally posted by Lissyl
It's not so much that people -want- to pay a subscription as it is that a subscription-based game is, for the most part, a surer sign of quality than what f2p games have been and so, given the choice between what most f2p games have been and a subscription, a subscription wins to those people (of which I am one).  The f2p as an extended trial with a subscription being offered also is, to me, always going to beat a cash shop-driven game because I can buy the subscription - and I do.  If it's cash-shop driven, then I won't give it the time of day.  The only exception that I've seen to that was Aion because its f2p implementation was spectacular...but apparently didn't work out so well for NCSoft.  Unfortunately, pvp ruined that game for me in the mid-40's.

I am not trying to  be mean BUT before you pick up a game and say that PVP ruined it at mid level. The smart thing to do would be to check if it has pvp and how its implimented... Aion was designed to be heavily focused on pvp since launch.

Now, if you can enjoy a game for its other aspects you just might find yourself enjoying the pvp side of it if you actually give it a chance.Seeing carebears trying to duel and learn to pvp is like a child drawing a stickman, it can teach them to paint a masterpiece in time if they practice. I know, i know! Different strokes for different folks but if you can put down Aion because of mid lvl pvp, you are doing it wrong because thats a big factor of what makes that game brilliant.

 

 

Rimmersman

Originally posted by worldalpha

From an interview of theirs:

Bylos: Yeah. We tried with the subscription model and we knew the momentum was against us, especially in the gamer mindset. People have become more and more fed up with subscriptions.

Bylos: Oh, we do. We tried to be a responsible subscription company and release something every month to give value for that money. Ignoring that I work here, I felt that as a gamer, that is what I’d want to see from a subscription game. But it really hasn’t paid off in the end, so we have to make some changes to bring more people in. But in terms of the subscription dying, I think Blizzard are laughing at us all from atop their thrones. Whenever I hear people say that subs are dead, I point to the biggest money-makers in the industry.

 

So, even though I hear time and again, people here saying the would rather pay a subscription, it doesn't look like that is really a reality anymore, unless your name is Blizzard.

What has any of that got to do with a players prefered payment plan lol.

 

Think we alreadg had a poll on here and most would pay a sub.  And TSW still has a payment plan just like WOW and AOC and Rift and EQ2 and Vanguard and numerous other mmos.

 

Your turn.

Onomas

Funny how all the dev teams blame subscriptions for their games failure. Then turn around and charge 100 times the sub price for cash shop items that you normaly get for free paying a sub. Yeah thats logical and anyone buying into that has no brain power about economics.

Then again if a game was released that was worth a sub, then people would. I spend 15$ like its nothing, and takes me less than 40 minutes to make that. 15/month isnt the problem. Its games being released that claim to be mmorpg's and have no features, no longevity, and no value.

 

Even games like GW2 isnt free, they have a huge cash shop as do the majority of F2P or B2P games, even single player games release half-a$$ed games and then pump out DLC's for you to buy/content.

Thats what our gaming industry has turned into. 50 cents a day is not an issue. I know people that whine about 15/month then turn around and drop 100/week on cash shops.............. game didnt changejust because they added a cash shop and made it F2P lol. So whats the issue again?

 

If i throw 250 wow clone games at you back to back (like the last few years), you arent going to want to pay for the same old game. Then i toss in a real epic mmorpg with all the features and so much content to keep you busy for years to come.......... think 15/month is an issue then?

SuprGamerX

Originally posted by worldalpha

From an interview of theirs:

Bylos: Yeah. We tried with the subscription model and we knew the momentum was against us, especially in the gamer mindset. People have become more and more fed up with subscriptions.

Bylos: Oh, we do. We tried to be a responsible subscription company and release something every month to give value for that money. Ignoring that I work here, I felt that as a gamer, that is what I’d want to see from a subscription game. But it really hasn’t paid off in the end, so we have to make some changes to bring more people in. But in terms of the subscription dying, I think Blizzard are laughing at us all from atop their thrones. Whenever I hear people say that subs are dead, I point to the biggest money-makers in the industry.

 

So, even though I hear time and again, people here saying the would rather pay a subscription, it doesn't look like that is really a reality anymore, unless your name is Blizzard.

LOL!! TSW? Really? Couldn't you pick a better game out of a thousand listed on this site?   Again , I've said this a million times and I'll most likely engrave it on my tomb when I pass away sometime this century ; If you release a MMO that looks like WoW , smells like WoW and feels like WoW , no one will quit WoW to play the copy cat.  If you release a half finish game and demand a sub fee , again you're going to suffer.  NOW , if you do plan on releasing a half finished game with bugs up the wazoo , then for God's sakes , make it a whole different feel then WoW.

ShakyMo

It's not like wow.

Well not until you hit endgame anyway. It's certainly not as wowish as swtor / rift / eq2 / all them Chinese f2p mmos.

Arglebargle

You can still go with subs, if you have correctly judged how much money you will bring in vs how much you have allocated in the game's development.   That can get you in trouble if tides change in folks' willingness to fork over money monthly.   And expectations will be higher.

Too much WoW comparison in there.  Developers need to stop chasing the dragon, and realize that the WoW story is a one time thing of right-place, right-time, right-situation.  WoW would crater as a new game now, if it were brought out as it was in the beginning.   It's even evident to me that Blizzard themselves can't do it again, if the results of Diablo Three are relevant.  Aiming for that four mil subscriber base just isn't going to happen, so stop allocating resources like you are going to get there.  Aim appropriately. 

Funcom didn't judge their audience well, and have paid the piper for it.  And having gone fully voiced, they have a lot more difficulty adding content easily and cheaply.   Sadly, the bad combat mechanics probably can't be fixed either, requiring major basic redesign, I'd imagine.  Too bad.

azzamasin

Subscriptions have always been and will always remain a barrier to growing a user base.  WoW and Blizzard are jsut as much an anomoly in this respect as they are in getting a 10 million following.  It would behove all companies to ignore anything Blizzard does and pretend it doesn't exist, first your not going to compete with them and second, your company will never be them so quit trying to copy their enigma wrapped in riddle and placed in a paradox.

Kiljaedenas

Originally posted by Asm0deus

Originally posted by MyTabbycat

IF an MMO gave players what they wanted, they would be willing to pay a sub for it. The problem is gamers are a lot pickier now than they used to be. There's been a flood of MMO's on the market and with so many very nice AAA MMO's that don't have a sub, players know they don't have to pay one to get a good quality game.

Also it seems a lot of players simply don't know exactly what it is they want in an MMO. They want it to be different but at the same time have elements of their favorite games. However, if it's too similar to their favorite game, the new game gets labled a clone.

I really do feel for developers trying to create new games in this market. As a comedian might say, it's a tough crowd.

While there is some truth to this it's not the only thing, there more and more AAA f2p games now and not all are p2w etc.  The populations mindset and current global economy has much to do with this new trend.

You must also add the fact that once consumers get used to an idea they like it is very hard to get them to go back to an older method of doing things.

 

It's not as simple as give them what they want and they will happily run back to paying a sub, this is  not to say some wouldn't though,  just saying you can't say the majority of gamer would.

 

Really? Name one AAA F2P MMO that has been out for at least six months that does not have p2w in it.

Burntvet

The other factor that people do not seem to realize is that FC is desperate for cash.

Like, "will soon be going out of business if they are not sold to someone" desperate.

So they are changing TSW to buy to pay... means nothing if the game/company had no choice to do that or have the whole company go under. And if FC goes under anyway, what does it really cost them?

 

And like others have said, TSW was nothing that new or special, so FC did not sell near enough boxes or keep enough of the subs they did get.

That they are changing the revenue model this soon after release only means they have very little left to lose.

 

 

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dave6660

Originally posted by worldalpha

From an interview of theirs:

Bylos: Yeah. We tried with the subscription model and we knew the momentum was against us, especially in the gamer mindset. People have become more and more fed up with subscriptions.

Bylos: Oh, we do. We tried to be a responsible subscription company and release something every month to give value for that money. Ignoring that I work here, I felt that as a gamer, that is what I’d want to see from a subscription game. But it really hasn’t paid off in the end, so we have to make some changes to bring more people in. But in terms of the subscription dying, I think Blizzard are laughing at us all from atop their thrones. Whenever I hear people say that subs are dead, I point to the biggest money-makers in the industry.

 

So, even though I hear time and again, people here saying the would rather pay a subscription, it doesn't look like that is really a reality anymore, unless your name is Blizzard.

Your topic does not agree with what you quoted.  TSW said players will pay a subscription, just not for their game.

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