The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
This is a strange way to "prove" a point. If a person wants to play a sub game, who cares what the trends say or what TSW's so-called evidence says? All the OP says is that people did not find TSW to be worth a subscription. That is it.
Since some believe MMOs are long term games, the trend obviously can impact your future enjoyment. If you "invest" in a sub game, and it turns F2P later because of the trend, wouldn't you be better off if you don't start in the first place?
In "F2P" some people don't pay, and are subsidized by the true fans of the game. If there are no true fans, I don't reckon the game would last. Keeping the game alive still costs the devs money, so something to think about when you refuse to pay for something you play regularly.
First, i don't have to play any F2P regularly. The beauty is that you spend as much time in each game as it is fun, and it is completely fine to hop to the next one at any time you choose.
Secondly, even if i play a F2P game regularly, isn't it good that someone else is subsidizing it? Isn't the SAME entertainment better when it is free?
"Because companies are greedy and we are willing to pay." ... LOL .. the fact that a majoirty of MMO players do not pay is a direct rebute of this statement. We are NOT willing to pay .. at least a lot of us. Personally i just quit my WOW sub and will go 100% f2P on MMOs. Tell me .. am i "willing to pay"?
Why would any game developer want to make a game for you? Out of the kindness of their heart?
I'll pay them money for a good game, every single month.
If I were making a game, which customer do you think I would rather have?
Oh hey, another mostly singleplayer game that is blaming their pricing instead of the fact that their game was bad.
MMORPGs do fine with monthly fees. Heavily scripted, instanced, mostly singleplayer affairs that rely on dev content do NOT do well with a monthly fee.
"Because companies are greedy and we are willing to pay." ... LOL .. the fact that a majoirty of MMO players do not pay is a direct rebute of this statement. We are NOT willing to pay .. at least a lot of us. Personally i just quit my WOW sub and will go 100% f2P on MMOs. Tell me .. am i "willing to pay"?
Why would any game developer want to make a game for you? Out of the kindness of their heart?
I'll pay them money for a good game, every single month.
If I were making a game, which customer do you think I would rather have?
Because someone else will pay?
Don't confuse about dev wants more money .. and that i have to pay more money.
It is quite clear that the F2P model is to get a minority of players (called whales) to pay more and subsidize everyone. The free riders become content.
I am no problem becoming content if i am having fun.
"Because companies are greedy and we are willing to pay." ... LOL .. the fact that a majoirty of MMO players do not pay is a direct rebute of this statement. We are NOT willing to pay .. at least a lot of us. Personally i just quit my WOW sub and will go 100% f2P on MMOs. Tell me .. am i "willing to pay"?
Why would any game developer want to make a game for you? Out of the kindness of their heart?
I'll pay them money for a good game, every single month.
If I were making a game, which customer do you think I would rather have?
Because someone else will pay?
Don't confuse about dev wants more money .. and that i have to pay more money.
It is quite clear that the F2P model is to get a minority of players (called whales) to pay more and subsidize everyone. The free riders become content.
I am no problem becoming content if i am having fun.
Sounds like a bad game. Then again, the "masses" love their bad music and bad movies now too. I guess I'm just not part of the societal majority... thankfully.
Bylos: Yeah. We tried with the subscription model and we knew the momentum was against us, especially in the gamer mindset. People have become more and more fed up with subscriptions.
Bylos: Oh, we do. We tried to be a responsible subscription company and release something every month to give value for that money. Ignoring that I work here, I felt that as a gamer, that is what I’d want to see from a subscription game. But it really hasn’t paid off in the end, so we have to make some changes to bring more people in. But in terms of the subscription dying, I think Blizzard are laughing at us all from atop their thrones. Whenever I hear people say that subs are dead, I point to the biggest money-makers in the industry.
So, even though I hear time and again, people here saying the would rather pay a subscription, it doesn't look like that is really a reality anymore, unless your name is Blizzard.
the problem is there are no "good" new subscription game's out
A sub model is still the golden ticket but the game has to be worth it and that bar is raised higher now that there are X amount of good titles out there. There are a lot of people still happily paying a sub to play their game of choice or choices.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by Aelious A sub model is still the golden ticket but the game has to be worth it and that bar is raised higher now that there are X amount of good titles out there. There are a lot of people still happily paying a sub to play their game of choice or choices.
The bar is lower than it has ever been. The issue is that there aren't many talented devs left in the pool, and MMOs are run by publishers, not enthusiasts who understood game design.
So, even though I hear time and again, people here saying the would rather pay a subscription, it doesn't look like that is really a reality anymore, unless your name is Blizzard.
Yes and judging by the popularity difference of FREE 2 PLAY games and FREEMIUM/PAYTRAP games I think its also safe to say that people would rather not bother with failed P2P games trying to sucker people out of more money.
You take any 3 freemium games, ANY of them and combine their populations AND their revenue and I will name you a half dozen F2P games of FAR LESS QUALITY that beat them in every aspect of player volumn and income. Yeah, I said it, there are FREE games out there that make more money and have more players than any 3 freemium games combined.
Hell, you can pick several F2P games made by Nexon that make more money than many P2P COMPANIES do total...lol, Atlantica Online brings in more money that Funcom does TOTAL and Atlantica Online is a total POS game yet it has a cash shop with FANTASTIC items that get people to spend their money.
Funcom hasnt learned a thing, either that or they really LOVE being a mediocre company with low income.
Bylos: Yeah. We tried with the subscription model and we knew the momentum was against us, especially in the gamer mindset. People have become more and more fed up with subscriptions.
Bylos: Oh, we do. We tried to be a responsible subscription company and release something every month to give value for that money. Ignoring that I work here, I felt that as a gamer, that is what I’d want to see from a subscription game. But it really hasn’t paid off in the end, so we have to make some changes to bring more people in. But in terms of the subscription dying, I think Blizzard are laughing at us all from atop their thrones. Whenever I hear people say that subs are dead, I point to the biggest money-makers in the industry.
So, even though I hear time and again, people here saying the would rather pay a subscription, it doesn't look like that is really a reality anymore, unless your name is Blizzard.
you realize they are still offering a subscription, don't you?
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by AeliousA sub model is still the golden ticket but the game has to be worth it and that bar is raised higher now that there are X amount of good titles out there. There are a lot of people still happily paying a sub to play their game of choice or choices.
The bar is lower than it has ever been. The issue is that there aren't many talented devs left in the pool, and MMOs are run by publishers, not enthusiasts who understood game design.
I suppose the fact that it is two to six times more expensive to develop video games in general has nothing to do with anything? Of course not. It has to be that every developer in the world is an untalented hack. It must be the case that MMO enthusiasts would obviously be better at writing games that cost upwards of ten million dollars. Of course! How could anyone miss that?
** edit ** Publishers don't determine which games get developed. You are looking for venture capitalists. Venture capitalists don't care about what kind of games get developed. They only care that the developer who is asking for money is a capable and proven developer. There is no conspiracy here. It is 100% free markets at work.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
"Because companies are greedy and we are willing to pay." ... LOL .. the fact that a majoirty of MMO players do not pay is a direct rebute of this statement. We are NOT willing to pay .. at least a lot of us. Personally i just quit my WOW sub and will go 100% f2P on MMOs. Tell me .. am i "willing to pay"?
Why would any game developer want to make a game for you? Out of the kindness of their heart?
I'll pay them money for a good game, every single month.
If I were making a game, which customer do you think I would rather have?
Because someone else will pay?
Don't confuse about dev wants more money .. and that i have to pay more money.
It is quite clear that the F2P model is to get a minority of players (called whales) to pay more and subsidize everyone. The free riders become content.
I am no problem becoming content if i am having fun.
Sounds like a bad game. Then again, the "masses" love their bad music and bad movies now too. I guess I'm just not part of the societal majority... thankfully.
"good" "bad" is in the eye of the beholder. I am playing PS2 these days and i am having fun ... so waht if you think it is a bad game, it won't change my enjoyment.
Yeah, I totally agree with you on this. Publishers are only here to please the casual gamer and take their money. Unfortunately they don't produce content for their games in the long run. I was actually just replying on the official forums for Salem Online and there was a game designer who said that the hardcore aspects of the game would turn off the game crowd and kill the game unless they made it more appealing to the casual crowd.
The beauty is that they can't take everyone's money in F2P game. Only the whales.
And if "pleasing the casual gamer" means that i will have fun in a game, so much the better.
I think there are plenty of people still willing to pay a subscription fee for a great mmo. The problem is, devs are lazy and keep making the same mmo's with a different skin. If people want to play WoW, they'll play WoW, not a clone of it. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'll gladly pay $25-$50 a month subscription fee for a great mmo. Sadly, there haven't been any good mmo's in years.
Originally posted by Tayah I think there are plenty of people still willing to pay a subscription fee for a great mmo. The problem is, devs are lazy and keep making the same mmo's with a different skin. If people want to play WoW, they'll play WoW, not a clone of it. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'll gladly pay $25-$50 a month subscription fee for a great mmo. Sadly, there haven't been any good mmo's in years.
I think the issue is competition. Surely in the absence of any online game, i am more than happy to pay a sub fee. Heck, before the time of UO, i have paid HOURLY fee for such online games.
But if i can play a fun game for free now, why do i want to pay a sub? It is not about whether i can afford it, or i feel it is worth the sub fee, it is if there is a cheaper, better alternative.
Now there are many alternatives.
Example ... PS2 is a fun game for me. It is F2P. Is there a reason why i should not play it just becuase it is f2p? Nope. If there is another MMOFPS that is as much fun as PS2 and ask for a sub ... would should i switch when i can get similar entertainment for free, with no commitment?
Originally posted by DavisFlight Oh hey, another mostly singleplayer game that is blaming their pricing instead of the fact that their game was bad. MMORPGs do fine with monthly fees. Heavily scripted, instanced, mostly singleplayer affairs that rely on dev content do NOT do well with a monthly fee.
This.
Others posts I agree have said:
1. "stop trying to copy WoW." 2. F2P attracts more kiddies and also more hackers 3. Subs decline because games have no longevity.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by worldalpha From an interview of theirs:
Bylos: Yeah. We tried with the subscription model and we knew the momentum was against us, especially in the gamer mindset. People have become more and more fed up with subscriptions.
Bylos: Oh, we do. We tried to be a responsible subscription company and release something every month to give value for that money. Ignoring that I work here, I felt that as a gamer, that is what Id want to see from a subscription game. But it really hasnt paid off in the end, so we have to make some changes to bring more people in. But in terms of the subscription dying, I think Blizzard are laughing at us all from atop their thrones. Whenever I hear people say that subs are dead, I point to the biggest money-makers in the industry.
So, even though I hear time and again, people here saying the would rather pay a subscription, it doesn't look like that is really a reality anymore, unless your name is Blizzard.
Personally, I would rather pay a sub than deal with cash shops. I know. I'm weird and stupid and gullible.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
So a dveloper says it is the pricing model as to why their game is doing poorly. Forget that your game is poorly designed and implemented and not very good over all. That has nothing to do with it...nothing at all.
let me list my personal reason why i dont play tsw
1. grafix was very poor (for me) when i play a game an someone starts talking i dont like them to look like a blow up dolls or people with paralized faces.
2. gameplay sucked (for me) it was like playing a 3rd rate shooter with a mmorpg overlay and voiceovers.
personly i dont pay to play what i myself consider crap, im just thanking my lucky stars i got into i think it was the last stress test so i could check the game out.
TSW has great consept and yes i was giddy when i first found it seen the intros i was expecting alot but i got nuthing.
Originally posted by Teala So a dveloper says it is the pricing model as to why their game is doing poorly. Forget that your game is poorly designed and implemented and not very good over all. That has nothing to do with it...nothing at all.
Comments
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Why would any game developer want to make a game for you? Out of the kindness of their heart?
I'll pay them money for a good game, every single month.
If I were making a game, which customer do you think I would rather have?
Oh hey, another mostly singleplayer game that is blaming their pricing instead of the fact that their game was bad.
MMORPGs do fine with monthly fees. Heavily scripted, instanced, mostly singleplayer affairs that rely on dev content do NOT do well with a monthly fee.
Because someone else will pay?
Don't confuse about dev wants more money .. and that i have to pay more money.
It is quite clear that the F2P model is to get a minority of players (called whales) to pay more and subsidize everyone. The free riders become content.
I am no problem becoming content if i am having fun.
Sounds like a bad game. Then again, the "masses" love their bad music and bad movies now too. I guess I'm just not part of the societal majority... thankfully.
www.thedragon13.com - Become a Dragon. What have you done to change our world?
the problem is there are no "good" new subscription game's out
when one comes out i will sub ..
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The bar is lower than it has ever been. The issue is that there aren't many talented devs left in the pool, and MMOs are run by publishers, not enthusiasts who understood game design.
Yes and judging by the popularity difference of FREE 2 PLAY games and FREEMIUM/PAYTRAP games I think its also safe to say that people would rather not bother with failed P2P games trying to sucker people out of more money.
You take any 3 freemium games, ANY of them and combine their populations AND their revenue and I will name you a half dozen F2P games of FAR LESS QUALITY that beat them in every aspect of player volumn and income. Yeah, I said it, there are FREE games out there that make more money and have more players than any 3 freemium games combined.
Hell, you can pick several F2P games made by Nexon that make more money than many P2P COMPANIES do total...lol, Atlantica Online brings in more money that Funcom does TOTAL and Atlantica Online is a total POS game yet it has a cash shop with FANTASTIC items that get people to spend their money.
Funcom hasnt learned a thing, either that or they really LOVE being a mediocre company with low income.
you realize they are still offering a subscription, don't you?
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I suppose the fact that it is two to six times more expensive to develop video games in general has nothing to do with anything? Of course not. It has to be that every developer in the world is an untalented hack. It must be the case that MMO enthusiasts would obviously be better at writing games that cost upwards of ten million dollars. Of course! How could anyone miss that?
** edit **
Publishers don't determine which games get developed. You are looking for venture capitalists. Venture capitalists don't care about what kind of games get developed. They only care that the developer who is asking for money is a capable and proven developer. There is no conspiracy here. It is 100% free markets at work.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
"good" "bad" is in the eye of the beholder. I am playing PS2 these days and i am having fun ... so waht if you think it is a bad game, it won't change my enjoyment.
The beauty is that they can't take everyone's money in F2P game. Only the whales.
And if "pleasing the casual gamer" means that i will have fun in a game, so much the better.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I think the issue is competition. Surely in the absence of any online game, i am more than happy to pay a sub fee. Heck, before the time of UO, i have paid HOURLY fee for such online games.
But if i can play a fun game for free now, why do i want to pay a sub? It is not about whether i can afford it, or i feel it is worth the sub fee, it is if there is a cheaper, better alternative.
Now there are many alternatives.
Example ... PS2 is a fun game for me. It is F2P. Is there a reason why i should not play it just becuase it is f2p? Nope. If there is another MMOFPS that is as much fun as PS2 and ask for a sub ... would should i switch when i can get similar entertainment for free, with no commitment?
This.
Others posts I agree have said:
1. "stop trying to copy WoW."
2. F2P attracts more kiddies and also more hackers
3. Subs decline because games have no longevity.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
let me list my personal reason why i dont play tsw
1. grafix was very poor (for me) when i play a game an someone starts talking i dont like them to look like a blow up dolls or people with paralized faces.
2. gameplay sucked (for me) it was like playing a 3rd rate shooter with a mmorpg overlay and voiceovers.
personly i dont pay to play what i myself consider crap, im just thanking my lucky stars i got into i think it was the last stress test so i could check the game out.
TSW has great consept and yes i was giddy when i first found it seen the intros i was expecting alot but i got nuthing.