300k subs..... honestly u people need to stfu already look at all the posts and bashing there is with 300k max, just sad when people hate for no reason
Not sure what you are getting at there, but SOE never gave up with the game and kept working on it right until the end. LA were responsible mainly for the CU and NGE, and Julio Torres of LA was the main one promoting the NGE, not anyone from SOE. Then when it became aparent that NGE was a failure, LA never appeared on the forums ever again, and SOE took total control, with a small handful of devs comitted to the game above and beyond the call of duty.
If SWTOR devs had SWG NGE, I doubt we would have seen beast master, chronicles etc.They would have just given up, and spread out the content
I also get similar strong commitment from Perfect Wold with STO as well, although not as much as SWG devs, but I am not feeling the love from EA/BW with SWTOR as these 2 games.
SWTOR is a far better game than STO, more polished than SWG, but if the SWTOR devs put as much effort into SWTOR as STO devs do for STO, then I would play SWTOR over STO hands down, but they simply are not.
not sure what your getting at here, im talking about all these swg people who claim it was the greatest game ever made and swtor is complete trash because its not swg2. my point was for ALL THE POSTS ON THIS SITE that bash swtor and ALL THE POSTS that talk about how they miss swg and it was the greatest mmo of all time and sandbox is the only way to go, the game was never a hit. most mmo's that were out when swg was are still out today. im not saying swg was a bad game but i just hate the fact that these people have nothing better to do post all day and night about a game that was never really aimed for them. im so sick of all this sandbox talk, look at gw2 people are complaining its not social, well if theres 20 people together and none of them say a word how is that the games fault?
Not sure what you are getting at there, but SOE never gave up with the game and kept working on it right until the end. LA were responsible mainly for the CU and NGE, and Julio Torres of LA was the main one promoting the NGE, not anyone from SOE. Then when it became aparent that NGE was a failure, LA never appeared on the forums ever again, and SOE took total control, with a small handful of devs comitted to the game above and beyond the call of duty.
If SWTOR devs had SWG NGE, I doubt we would have seen beast master, chronicles etc.They would have just given up, and spread out the content
I also get similar strong commitment from Perfect Wold with STO as well, although not as much as SWG devs, but I am not feeling the love from EA/BW with SWTOR as these 2 games.
SWTOR is a far better game than STO, more polished than SWG, but if the SWTOR devs put as much effort into SWTOR as STO devs do for STO, then I would play SWTOR over STO hands down, but they simply are not.
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It was either that, or the bashing of SWG lead to its failure.
After SWTOR, I bet a lot of people bashing SWG when it was around, wished they played it more, as could not get over the NGE. If people got over the NGE, and accepted the NGE for what it was, and forgot about pre-NGE, or launched with NGE and no players even played the NGE, I am sure SWG would have done a lot better.
SWG had 32 customisable professions, NGE had 9 cookiee cutter professiona, SWTOR has 8 cookiee cutter professions.
If you want a MMO to play for about 3 months, then SWTOR is better than SWG
If you want a MMO to play for 8 years (which is the attraction of MMOs, and EA planned a ten year stint with SWTOR) then SWG is better than SWTOR, even in NGE form.
The announcement of SWTOR spelled ultimate doom for SWG, as it a a new MMO, and being created by the god of devs Bioware. It sold 2 million copies on the strength of Bioware alone, then 1.5 million people quit. If SOE had SWTOR I doubt it would have sold 300k copies.
SWGs subs came from the game itself and people slowly coming to the game, and staying for what it was. SWTORs millions was just down to Biowares past, not SWTORs gameplay, now subs are about SWGs level in 2004, and that is with F2P giving a boost.
If they did keep both MMOs going, as they said they were going to do, then I would have played both, and still be subbed to SWTOR as SWG would have slowed me down on SWTOR
The problem with SWTOR is that the game ends when you reach max level. For SWG the game begins when you reach max level.
I don't think SWToR is as bad as it's made out to be, but at the same time, I don't think it's all that great either. Not enough for me to play more than the couple of months I played in any event.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Sandbox games just offer more gameplay and only are limited by your imagination, and they suit the MMO design.
SWG did not fail because it was a sandbox, it failed because of the many annoying changes. The fact it was a sandbox is what kept it around for so long.
Theme park games are limited by the game itself, and SWTOR is the worst. It makes other theme park games more like a sandbox in comparison.
LOTRO has fishing, player housing, regular events etc. STO has the foundry (story creator system) and scan sectors for limited time DOFF assignments which get your RARE stuff, and can level up a various amount of ways - the main stories or the dailies or the events etc
SWTOR is lacking in content and lacking in sandboxy features which other theme park games have.
Regstfing the OP's comments: "many posters" saw SWtOR as an OK "mostly single player game" at launch (and afterwards). There are class stories and so forth.
The issue that "many posters" brought up however was the longevity of SWTOR's subscription based model. People were unhappy about the crafting, the PvP, the end-game in general - and subsequently Bioware have said that all of these were not what they wanted..
Now some people were and still are happy with whatt SWTOR has to offer - and that is fine.
However highest number of "accounts" reported - before the end of the 2nd month - was 1.7M of which "just about half" were recurring subscribers - so 850k. Below the 1M EA's CEO said they needed to "make a profit but nothing to write home about". And the subsequent decline in subs supports the concerns that "many people" had.
on my server the population is definitely not going down and i see every server on the server list with similar numbers, i have looked at a lot of them.
to say that this game is on life support is either misinformation or pure bias.
i am not saying the game is great and don't blame people for not liking it.
but it actually has a lot of people playing it compared to most mmo's
The F2P restrictions aren't that bad? They won't even let you have more than one action bar without paying money =/ you get shorted an entire crafting skill, along with a lot of other horrible crap. Honestly, the action bar restriction is I think the most insulting crap they could've done. "Oh, we're going to make it such a hinderance to play that you'll have to pay money just to use abilities on the fly!" Yeah...retarded. No, thanks. I'm good on that.
Originally posted by Faidian The F2P restrictions aren't that bad? They won't even let you have more than one action bar without paying money =/ you get shorted an entire crafting skill, along with a lot of other horrible crap. Honestly, the action bar restriction is I think the most insulting crap they could've done. "Oh, we're going to make it such a hinderance to play that you'll have to pay money just to use abilities on the fly!" Yeah...retarded. No, thanks. I'm good on that.
When I read about that I lost any shredd of respect I had for that company. Customizable UIs are almost a given nowdays with anygame. Now they want to dictate how much of a UI you can have. This stuff might fly over in Europe; but, this is the exact opposite of how you run a business in a capitalist society.
Originally posted by Drakynn SW:TOR is great till you hit max level and finish all the end game content in a couple weeks after with 2 or more alts.Then there is nothing to hold you.
Well we anonymous altholics :-) do not have this problem. :-) Have been leveling 4 empire and 4 jedi side alts to max, so done all possible stories. Loved every second being in game for this 7 to 8 months. Have also half way 8 another alts for other combinations, so this will keep me busy when i start to play again. This expansion will keep me busy also for long with all alts.
Simply said, swtor for me is best game ever, never enjoyed so much. Ok, actually first place in my heart is constantly split between swtor and wow.
I play actually a lot, but when I have time, not when raiding would require me. Manytime I play over night, etc. So I never based my enjoyment on others when they have time. So, I play alts, then switch to another game, back, .... I guess for years to come I will be pretty busy without endgame and pvp with swtor, wow, gw2, tsw, rift,.... and some new games.
Originally posted by Faidian The F2P restrictions aren't that bad? They won't even let you have more than one action bar without paying money =/ you get shorted an entire crafting skill, along with a lot of other horrible crap. Honestly, the action bar restriction is I think the most insulting crap they could've done. "Oh, we're going to make it such a hinderance to play that you'll have to pay money just to use abilities on the fly!" Yeah...retarded. No, thanks. I'm good on that.
When I read about that I lost any shredd of respect I had for that company. Customizable UIs are almost a given nowdays with anygame. Now they want to dictate how much of a UI you can have. This stuff might fly over in Europe; but, this is the exact opposite of how you run a business in a capitalist society.
Lol, you are pretty ignorant about Europe, and last I saw, EA is a US company.
"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs
When I read about that I lost any shredd of respect I had for that company. Customizable UIs are almost a given nowdays with anygame. Now they want to dictate how much of a UI you can have. This stuff might fly over in Europe; but, this is the exact opposite of how you run a business in a capitalist society.
This is complete and utter ignorance! Bravo!
Edit - btw, ToR seems more popular in the US than in the EU. Just look at the server loads.
When I read about that I lost any shredd of respect I had for that company. Customizable UIs are almost a given nowdays with anygame. Now they want to dictate how much of a UI you can have. This stuff might fly over in Europe; but, this is the exact opposite of how you run a business in a capitalist society.
This is complete and utter ignorance! Bravo!
Edit - btw, ToR seems more popular in the US than in the EU. Just look at the server loads.
I am glad you pointed that out. Astonishing level of ignorance.
When I read about that I lost any shredd of respect I had for that company. Customizable UIs are almost a given nowdays with anygame. Now they want to dictate how much of a UI you can have. This stuff might fly over in Europe; but, this is the exact opposite of how you run a business in a capitalist society.
This is complete and utter ignorance! Bravo!
Edit - btw, ToR seems more popular in the US than in the EU. Just look at the server loads.
I am glad you pointed that out. Astonishing level of ignorance.
Just in pointing out that this is the exact way of how you run a buisness in a capitalist society, i.e. nickle and diming people and milking every penny you can get out of them. Any company NOT doing that is bound to fail in capitalism since your competitors will do it and have superior funds allowing them to aquire patents and kill you by patent war attrition or outright buy you.
There is a reason Apple got so much money in such a short time(i mean hundreds of billions in ten years?), look how much they charge for a ram upgrade in one of their laptops or how much their profit margin is on their phones.
I mean if what EA is doing isn't capitalism at its finest ... what is it then? Sure doesn't look like communism or socialism to me.
When I read about that I lost any shredd of respect I had for that company. Customizable UIs are almost a given nowdays with anygame. Now they want to dictate how much of a UI you can have. This stuff might fly over in Europe; but, this is the exact opposite of how you run a business in a capitalist society.
This is complete and utter ignorance! Bravo!
Edit - btw, ToR seems more popular in the US than in the EU. Just look at the server loads.
I am glad you pointed that out. Astonishing level of ignorance.
Just in pointing out that this is the exact way of how you run a buisness in a capitalist society, i.e. nickle and diming people and milking every penny you can get out of them. Any company NOT doing that is bound to fail in capitalism since your competitors will do it and have superior funds allowing them to aquire patents and kill you by patent war attrition or outright buy you.
There is a reason Apple got so much money in such a short time(i mean hundreds of billions in ten years?), look how much they charge for a ram upgrade in one of their laptops or how much their profit margin is on their phones.
I mean if what EA is doing isn't capitalism at its finest ... what is it then? Sure doesn't look like communism or socialism to me.
You are totally right people don't mind paying for quality.
That being said while Apple is on top of the food chain regarding quality, TOR is closer to the bottom.
That's why hundreds of thousand people quit, saying TOR wasn't worth Wow $15 monthly fees.
I am a founder as some of you are I was disappointed in the begining I felt they had released it to early. Waited till march and played a month and it just didnt seem right. Now I have come back and I do enjoy it more than before so for now I will stay a bit and see how it rides out. Only one other game to seem to have as good as graphics as swtor and thats eve. The character development I believe are some of the best ever.. I would encourage everyone to come back and hope you can find that game you been looking for.
Its not even just about the free to play restrictions, even outside the game. You can almost always see bugs happening on randomn people and the best of all is if your a preferred user or free-to-play, their reply will be sorry your not a subscriber, we cant help you on that. (Someone buying a unlock on the GTN and the unlock effect dissappears after logout) Well if your a subscriber, they will say sure we will look into it, and you waited a few days... maybe it`ll get fixed.
The way EA run the game is its still a monthly subscription game. For anyone not paying a sub, you play the game with heavy penalty and even if u pay money in their cartel shop, you will still not be taken into consideration if u face any bugs. Only the subs have a say.
Bottom line: if your not paying a sub, but would like to play by buying stuff on their cartel shop. They dont give a damn about you.
If you unluckily face any problems, you can only stomach it yourself.
Sub and they will slowly look into what is your problem.
SWTOR is not a mmorpg, it's a single player game with co-op options IMO. Heck, SWTOR is only "mmorpg" which made me to think where is save/load game button. I really felt I was playing just an average single player game.
Originally posted by velmax So i was expecting the worse! Super grindy game, boring combat, and horrible gameplay in general. To be honest, i didn't get any of that. The story was pretty amazing, one of my favorite aspects of the game, the combat wasn't anything new, but still enjoyable. I really liked the PVP especially Huttball, that's probably the best PVP map I've played, and the PVP is pretty balanced. The dungeons were cool since they were Star Wars themed and i liked how all classes got a knockback and stun skill, balances the PVP out very well. So overall, dont let other players freak you out, the game is great and the RESTRICTION for F2P arn't that bad, at least 1-50.
Good on you mate, glad to see you enjoy the game and are having fun, Don't listen to the rest of the dead beats who are just pissed off because SWTOR wasn't made to there exact styles.
If we were to get actual sub numbers right now. I guarantee Rift would have more and wouldnt be surprised if LOTRO had about the same if not more. SWTOR sold 2 million copies at launch and was down to 500k subs at 6 months. After a year I would put SWTOR at maybe 200k subs, and a lot of f2p accounts. 6 months from now the f2p accounts wont be that many with how terrible of a f2p they offer and the subs will probably be around 125k.
And hopefully the game shuts down a year from now so we can get the Star Wars MMO we deserve.
Haha too funny buddy. Where do you get your facts? I wish I could pull ignorant crap out of my a$$ like some on here do non-stop. I can't wait to be celebrating the 2nd expansion in a year while those like you will still be pouting and pulling crap out of their a$$
uhm, my facts came from EA's investor meetings where they have to give factual data on how successful their game properties are. So theres that.
P.S. Congrats on paying for an expansion that comes out in spring that was originally suppose to release around this time as a content update...for free.
Too bad their f2p has been a huge success! Please provide a link that says they are below 125k. I have never read any investor meeting stating anything below 500k. So how about that link? Oh wow god forbid things changed, they are adding more than just what your talking about. I know selective reading and missed the part of "more information coming". Ill pay $10 to play new content on a game i enjoy. I guess im fortunate to have a job where I dont need to pout about ten bucks.
Are you kiidding me? Their F2P has been heavily critiqued by gamers and suits alike across the board...
F2P has gotten an initial surge of non-paying members but that won't last long because their monetization scheme is a joke. Not only that but EA's sole focus on nickle-and-diming their remaining playerbase is actually driving subscribed members away from the game.
It's funny to see people defend EA when they charging $18 for PER CHARACTER holiday mount yet not even bother decorating the Fleets for Life Day. (Remember that they are supposed to have a dedicated event team, something I doubt they still have at this point tbh)
Never mind that they are now selling progression ship gear on the Cartel; while this might not be gamebreaking it goes explicitly against quotes by Jeff Hickman himself and sets a terrible precedent for future character gear.
P.S. You haven't just paid $10, you have to factor in the 3 paid months in which subscribers have gotten almost nothing in terms of content.
If all you want to do is play to 50 on a few characters and then drop the game, then it's not that bad. If you're looking for an MMO to play, then opinions might vary a bit more, to say the least.
Comments
not sure what your getting at here, im talking about all these swg people who claim it was the greatest game ever made and swtor is complete trash because its not swg2. my point was for ALL THE POSTS ON THIS SITE that bash swtor and ALL THE POSTS that talk about how they miss swg and it was the greatest mmo of all time and sandbox is the only way to go, the game was never a hit. most mmo's that were out when swg was are still out today. im not saying swg was a bad game but i just hate the fact that these people have nothing better to do post all day and night about a game that was never really aimed for them. im so sick of all this sandbox talk, look at gw2 people are complaining its not social, well if theres 20 people together and none of them say a word how is that the games fault?
It was either that, or the bashing of SWG lead to its failure.
After SWTOR, I bet a lot of people bashing SWG when it was around, wished they played it more, as could not get over the NGE. If people got over the NGE, and accepted the NGE for what it was, and forgot about pre-NGE, or launched with NGE and no players even played the NGE, I am sure SWG would have done a lot better.
SWG had 32 customisable professions, NGE had 9 cookiee cutter professiona, SWTOR has 8 cookiee cutter professions.
If you want a MMO to play for about 3 months, then SWTOR is better than SWG
If you want a MMO to play for 8 years (which is the attraction of MMOs, and EA planned a ten year stint with SWTOR) then SWG is better than SWTOR, even in NGE form.
The announcement of SWTOR spelled ultimate doom for SWG, as it a a new MMO, and being created by the god of devs Bioware. It sold 2 million copies on the strength of Bioware alone, then 1.5 million people quit. If SOE had SWTOR I doubt it would have sold 300k copies.
SWGs subs came from the game itself and people slowly coming to the game, and staying for what it was. SWTORs millions was just down to Biowares past, not SWTORs gameplay, now subs are about SWGs level in 2004, and that is with F2P giving a boost.
If they did keep both MMOs going, as they said they were going to do, then I would have played both, and still be subbed to SWTOR as SWG would have slowed me down on SWTOR
The problem with SWTOR is that the game ends when you reach max level. For SWG the game begins when you reach max level.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I don't think SWToR is as bad as it's made out to be, but at the same time, I don't think it's all that great either. Not enough for me to play more than the couple of months I played in any event.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Sandbox games just offer more gameplay and only are limited by your imagination, and they suit the MMO design.
SWG did not fail because it was a sandbox, it failed because of the many annoying changes. The fact it was a sandbox is what kept it around for so long.
Theme park games are limited by the game itself, and SWTOR is the worst. It makes other theme park games more like a sandbox in comparison.
LOTRO has fishing, player housing, regular events etc. STO has the foundry (story creator system) and scan sectors for limited time DOFF assignments which get your RARE stuff, and can level up a various amount of ways - the main stories or the dailies or the events etc
SWTOR is lacking in content and lacking in sandboxy features which other theme park games have.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Regstfing the OP's comments: "many posters" saw SWtOR as an OK "mostly single player game" at launch (and afterwards). There are class stories and so forth.
The issue that "many posters" brought up however was the longevity of SWTOR's subscription based model. People were unhappy about the crafting, the PvP, the end-game in general - and subsequently Bioware have said that all of these were not what they wanted..
Now some people were and still are happy with whatt SWTOR has to offer - and that is fine.
However highest number of "accounts" reported - before the end of the 2nd month - was 1.7M of which "just about half" were recurring subscribers - so 850k. Below the 1M EA's CEO said they needed to "make a profit but nothing to write home about". And the subsequent decline in subs supports the concerns that "many people" had.
The initial experience however - sure.
on my server the population is definitely not going down and i see every server on the server list with similar numbers, i have looked at a lot of them.
to say that this game is on life support is either misinformation or pure bias.
i am not saying the game is great and don't blame people for not liking it.
but it actually has a lot of people playing it compared to most mmo's
that's not "on life support".
When I read about that I lost any shredd of respect I had for that company. Customizable UIs are almost a given nowdays with anygame. Now they want to dictate how much of a UI you can have. This stuff might fly over in Europe; but, this is the exact opposite of how you run a business in a capitalist society.
Well we anonymous altholics :-) do not have this problem. :-) Have been leveling 4 empire and 4 jedi side alts to max, so done all possible stories. Loved every second being in game for this 7 to 8 months. Have also half way 8 another alts for other combinations, so this will keep me busy when i start to play again. This expansion will keep me busy also for long with all alts.
Simply said, swtor for me is best game ever, never enjoyed so much. Ok, actually first place in my heart is constantly split between swtor and wow.
I play actually a lot, but when I have time, not when raiding would require me. Manytime I play over night, etc. So I never based my enjoyment on others when they have time. So, I play alts, then switch to another game, back, .... I guess for years to come I will be pretty busy without endgame and pvp with swtor, wow, gw2, tsw, rift,.... and some new games.
Lol, you are pretty ignorant about Europe, and last I saw, EA is a US company.
"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs
This is complete and utter ignorance! Bravo!
Edit - btw, ToR seems more popular in the US than in the EU. Just look at the server loads.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
I am glad you pointed that out. Astonishing level of ignorance.
currently playing: DDO, AOC, WoT, P101
Just in pointing out that this is the exact way of how you run a buisness in a capitalist society, i.e. nickle and diming people and milking every penny you can get out of them. Any company NOT doing that is bound to fail in capitalism since your competitors will do it and have superior funds allowing them to aquire patents and kill you by patent war attrition or outright buy you.
There is a reason Apple got so much money in such a short time(i mean hundreds of billions in ten years?), look how much they charge for a ram upgrade in one of their laptops or how much their profit margin is on their phones.
I mean if what EA is doing isn't capitalism at its finest ... what is it then? Sure doesn't look like communism or socialism to me.
You are totally right people don't mind paying for quality.
That being said while Apple is on top of the food chain regarding quality, TOR is closer to the bottom.
That's why hundreds of thousand people quit, saying TOR wasn't worth Wow $15 monthly fees.
Its not even just about the free to play restrictions, even outside the game. You can almost always see bugs happening on randomn people and the best of all is if your a preferred user or free-to-play, their reply will be sorry your not a subscriber, we cant help you on that. (Someone buying a unlock on the GTN and the unlock effect dissappears after logout) Well if your a subscriber, they will say sure we will look into it, and you waited a few days... maybe it`ll get fixed.
The way EA run the game is its still a monthly subscription game. For anyone not paying a sub, you play the game with heavy penalty and even if u pay money in their cartel shop, you will still not be taken into consideration if u face any bugs. Only the subs have a say.
Bottom line: if your not paying a sub, but would like to play by buying stuff on their cartel shop. They dont give a damn about you.
If you unluckily face any problems, you can only stomach it yourself.
Sub and they will slowly look into what is your problem.
@OP
Depends on the point of view taken. Single player point of view, yes it is not that bad. MMORPG point of view is not bad but horrible.
You could say that this game is "not bad" only in some rare circumstances.
for example if you only played microsoft saper for the past 10 years or something...
Are you kiidding me? Their F2P has been heavily critiqued by gamers and suits alike across the board...
F2P has gotten an initial surge of non-paying members but that won't last long because their monetization scheme is a joke. Not only that but EA's sole focus on nickle-and-diming their remaining playerbase is actually driving subscribed members away from the game.
It's funny to see people defend EA when they charging $18 for PER CHARACTER holiday mount yet not even bother decorating the Fleets for Life Day. (Remember that they are supposed to have a dedicated event team, something I doubt they still have at this point tbh)
Never mind that they are now selling progression ship gear on the Cartel; while this might not be gamebreaking it goes explicitly against quotes by Jeff Hickman himself and sets a terrible precedent for future character gear.
P.S. You haven't just paid $10, you have to factor in the 3 paid months in which subscribers have gotten almost nothing in terms of content.
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