This news sounds good if not great in my point of view.
I started a topic a few days ago that I could never see myself comming back to GW2. It was way too easy and unsocial. I would have to play about four levels above to have any kind of challange, getting gear four levels above me and hold on to it until I could use it. My little point of view, Guilds were not needed as the game took care of that with auto group.
Now in what the OP is saying, then I may come back someday.....If he and many un social players don't like it then mmos may not be for them !..............I play mmos to be mmos, make friends and work togeather.
I quite often play in the middle of the night, say 3am to 5 am and have no problem soloing most of the DE's if I need to. Only the enes labelled as being for group actually need one. The rest scale to how many players are doing them. Having said that, I'm amazed that it's very rare on our server for other players not to turn up while I'm doing a DE no matter what time of day or night it is. That's in the mid levels too, as I've been levelling my latest alt from lvl 20 to 40 this past week.
Now here I am... in a mid tier zone in GW2 and i can't kill a orange event/mob because no one is around. I find myself avoiding content as I level.
They didn't and now anyone thats leveling gets to suffer...
I'd like to know the exact event, as my latest previous post on another thread was pretty much a response to this and how it isn't true. Just because there are not 30+ people per event, doesn't mean there aren't a handful around for any of the tough events. The vast majority of events are soloable as well.
First of all, I think GW2 dynamic events are still ok, you can mostly solo any event that is not marked "group" and for group events you usually need only a few people (most can be done by 2 people really). So in this respect it's preatty much the same as old quest style, where you got normal soloable quests and group quests that you needed group for.
As for what can be done... I think it's kinda simple and difficult at the same time. If you make very good level scaling, you can adjust rewards so that they drop according to your level and not level of the zone. Right now high level player has little reasons to go to lower zones (apart from explorer types), but if you got the same type of rewards you get in hgh level zones, nothing would really tie you to 80 level zones. Lower level zones would still be less populated then high level zones, but at least there would be good reason to go to lower zones.
Saying that downscaling is a key.... right now, if you got to level 10 zone as level 80 char, you pretty much one shot everything... it's not so crazy as in say wow, but still you are much more powerful than your typical level 10 character. This means less work for the same reward.... and we are back at the same problem only backwards.
tl;dr; if ou want to get people into lower level zones, you need to give them same rewards as they get from doing high level content.
I think some of you are missing the point. Yes most dynamic events can be soloed. But they're tedious when done that way. Zones have been designed with the intention that there would be multiple dozens of players in them doing events together. They are a lot less fun when you're playing through them all by yourself or with a random player or two.
This is a population issue. On many servers at many times of day, there just aren't enough players in many zones for the zones to be fun to play in. The solution therefore is not L2P, go to a lower level zone, etc. it's for Arenanet to do something to get more players into those zones.
I think some of you are missing the point. Yes most dynamic events can be soloed. But they're tedious when done that way.
Nope.
Originally posted by Z3R01
Now here I am... in a mid tier zone in GW2 and i can't kill a orange event/mob because no one is around. I find myself avoiding content as I level.
...
But in hindsight was it really a good decision to put these mechanics into the game? Now that GW2 is mostly top heavy, even with down scaling people are left skipping events or begging for help in map chat.
...
You would think after watching two companies fail with on the fly open world group content that A-net would have design GW2 to be adjusted later on when populations dipped.
He's saying events are too difficult and don't scale well enough. He's wrong. Also, I don't think GW2 color codes mobs.
Whether events are fun or not is another issue. I agree they're not as fun as they used to be and ANet should try to get players to spread more. Luckily, it's what they'll be doing with Jan/Feb/March updates.
I think some of you are missing the point. Yes most dynamic events can be soloed. But they're tedious when done that way. Zones have been designed with the intention that there would be multiple dozens of players in them doing events together. They are a lot less fun when you're playing through them all by yourself or with a random player or two.
This is a population issue. On many servers at many times of day, there just aren't enough players in many zones for the zones to be fun to play in. The solution therefore is not L2P, go to a lower level zone, etc. it's for Arenanet to do something to get more players into those zones.
Actually, when there were 20+ people per event, you didn't have to think or do anything other than auto-attack.
With 2-3 players per DE, I think they're much better. I much prefer to defeat a champion giant or something with a handful of players compared to 20+ where you don't do jack.
I guess some folks like not dodging and using skill to defeat enemies, but prefer the mass numbers of outzerging the enemy scale (the DEs cap at a certain number of players and don't get more difficult - this was observed the first couple of weeks with 30+ people per event).
I think some of you are missing the point. Yes most dynamic events can be soloed. But they're tedious when done that way. Zones have been designed with the intention that there would be multiple dozens of players in them doing events together. They are a lot less fun when you're playing through them all by yourself or with a random player or two.
This is a population issue. On many servers at many times of day, there just aren't enough players in many zones for the zones to be fun to play in. The solution therefore is not L2P, go to a lower level zone, etc. it's for Arenanet to do something to get more players into those zones.
That's just your opinion. Personally, I get more enjoyment finishing an event on my own or with one or two other players than I did doing the same events with my first character at launch when I could face roll my way through them. I find it much more of a challenge when you actually have to consider tactics to complete some of them.
Dynamic events, Rifts, zone invasions, Public Quests... all fail once the games population out levels an area or the games population dwindles.
I've seen this happen with three games now. First with WAR public quests. They were great at first and then after a month or two you were left soloing them or skipping them entirely.
Then Rift came along with its Rift events and even with population scaling they failed once populations dropped.
Now here I am... in a mid tier zone in GW2 and i can't kill a orange event/mob because no one is around. I find myself avoiding content as I level.
Sure everyone loves open world content. its great when a game first launches and everyone is leveling together. WAR, Rift and GW2 were all great the first month or two.
But in hindsight was it really a good decision to put these mechanics into the game? Now that GW2 is mostly top heavy, even with down scaling people are left skipping events or begging for help in map chat.
I'm sure at this point A-net is second guessing their decisions now. Same as Trion and Mythic did back then when the game worlds became ghost towns.
You would think after watching two companies fail with on the fly open world group content that A-net would have design GW2 to be adjusted later on when populations dipped.
They didn't and now anyone thats leveling gets to suffer...
So what do they do? What could they do that Mythic and Trion couldnt? You guys have any ideas? because right now im at the point of wishing Gw2 was a tad more traditional with its leveling content and didn't entirely focus everything on massive zone popluation.
Maybe you are in a wrong guild/server, an example , yesterday in mailstrom by the meta destroyer event, started with me and 2 more persons, we start the invite chat (map, guild and friends) , and in some minutes we got more than 40 persons to made it.
A great mistake was to put fract's on L.A., now all L80 are there to do it, and not helping so much to populate the vast world from GW2.
Originally posted by ShakyMo perhaps levels are the problem
I'm still playing a game that's focus is leveling up skills rather than player level. And the population has not dropped. Nobody is leaving this game that has been out since March 27, 2008. Skills is where it is at.
Maybe nobody is leaving because nobody is playing? You didn't even name the game, and no notable MMORPG releases came out in march 2008. Using some ultra obscure game that nobody plays to try to make a point is pretty silly.
I've seen this happen with three games now. First with WAR public quests. They were great at first and then after a month or two you were left soloing them or skipping them entirely.
The bigger issue in GW2 is they went against their original design with loot. Originally (and this is how it was at launch for me) once I reached level 80 and went back to the older zones, stuff my level would drop off mobs there. So I'd get lots of loot sometimes rares and sometimes exotics.
Then a month went by and they nerfed all the loot and added DR and never fixed the chests in these lower zones to actually drop level appropriate loot and made MF even more broken then it was already (ie not working on chests). so there's no reason to run around in the lower level zones.
All GW2 devs would have to do is restore loot to the launch parameters and remove DR and fix a couple of things like MF not working on chests (or not working at all) and people would return to these places because they are seriously easier then Orr. They also need to make ascended gear drop in the open world so people aren't hanging out in LA all the time.
I've seen this happen with three games now. First with WAR public quests. They were great at first and then after a month or two you were left soloing them or skipping them entirely.
The bigger issue in GW2 is they went against their original design with loot. Originally (and this is how it was at launch for me) once I reached level 80 and went back to the older zones, stuff my level would drop off mobs there. So I'd get lots of loot sometimes rares and sometimes exotics.
Then a month went by and they nerfed all the loot and added DR and never fixed the chests in these lower zones to actually drop level appropriate loot and made MF even more broken then it was already (ie not working on chests). so there's no reason to run around in the lower level zones.
All GW2 devs would have to do is restore loot to the launch parameters and remove DR and fix a couple of things like MF not working on chests (or not working at all) and people would return to these places because they are seriously easier then Orr. They also need to make ascended gear drop in the open world so people aren't hanging out in LA all the time.
AHH - the loot does drop based on your level not the level of the mobs. That is the way it is has always worked for me.. I think you are confused. The only place where it is level based is hidden chests and the Karma vendors in that area.
Levels arent the problem because it is just a mechanic to progress. The issue is content design. Most (if not all) MMOs today is based on a traditional tiered content approach. Easy content in the early levels which progressively get harder as you scale the tiers. The problem in my eyes is that this is too restrictive. Today I cant go from a level 1 'zone/area' to a level 20 'zone/area' because I have no means or ability to survive. Thus we as players are effectively 'funneled' through content.
There are a few options. Skyrim used one. They used level scaling where the enemies would scale within your level. That way if you went back to an area where you started and you were a higher level the enemies would still give you a challenge. This is similiar to what GW2 and its a start.
But to me the REAL 'fix' is to change the content. If you present no meaningful content at 'low' levels/areas you provide no incentive for a high level user to return. For example, if you placed one newbie starting area (and there should be several to mix it up) next to a lake, you could have high levels come back to use the lake to make or sail a boat to another area only reached from there. Thus making the area useful. If you can get people to visit an area, natural social interaction will take care of the rest.
I've been looking at ArcheAge and they had this interesting concept (apologies as I dont fully understand it yet) where you take materials to a 'drop point' to exchange for coins which are needed to purchase blueprints to build houses/etc. In the video I saw these drop points are OWPvP and showed one group of players AMBUSHING another group of players trying to deliver the coins. Content like that (which isn't player created but player driven) now makes that area relevant. It gives purpose to revisit somewhere you have been before.
MMO content/environments should be like real locations. Have a bunch of things going on and let the players choose if they want to go there (regardless of level or skill).
I love the dynamic events, but as populations tend to drop, this is a potential problem. As the OP experienced, I first noticed it in WAR. I loved the open questing there too, but as the population dropped, it became very difficult if not impossible to complete certain quests.
I'm not sure what the answer is while retaining that style of gameplay. Maybe npc's that will help out. It's also a reallly big world too, so that doesn't help in terms of population. I'm not complaining, mind you, I love the world, but that adds another aspect to declining populations if they occur.
I love the dynamic events, but as populations tend to drop, this is a potential problem. As the OP experienced, I first noticed it in WAR. I loved the open questing there too, but as the population dropped, it became very difficult if not impossible to complete certain quests.
I'm not sure what the answer is while retaining that style of gameplay. Maybe npc's that will help out. It's also a reallly big world too, so that doesn't help in terms of population. I'm not complaining, mind you, I love the world, but that adds another aspect to declining populations if they occur.
Even beforre release many said this will happen but fans kept saying that scaling will solve this problem..however what they did forget is that majority of players like progression and rewards and that leaves no room for coming back to low level zones and do the DE'S just for the 'fun' of it. If it was true DE's in lower zones woudn't be empty which is the case these days.
Guess ' we play GW2 just for for fun and loot or rewards' supporters are really in minority
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I love the dynamic events, but as populations tend to drop, this is a potential problem. As the OP experienced, I first noticed it in WAR. I loved the open questing there too, but as the population dropped, it became very difficult if not impossible to complete certain quests.
I'm not sure what the answer is while retaining that style of gameplay. Maybe npc's that will help out. It's also a reallly big world too, so that doesn't help in terms of population. I'm not complaining, mind you, I love the world, but that adds another aspect to declining populations if they occur.
Even beforre release many said this will happen but fans kept saying that scaling will solve this problem..however what they did forget is that majority of players like progression and rewards and that leaves no room for coming back to low level zones and do the DE'S just for the 'fun' of it. If it was true DE's in lower zones woudn't be empty which is the case these days.
Guess ' we play GW2 just for for fun and loot or rewards' supporters are really in minority
Me and many others do come back to low level zones to do events, why you ask?
It's easy, doing them help you get your dalies completed much faster than doing them in high level zones.
I love the dynamic events, but as populations tend to drop, this is a potential problem. As the OP experienced, I first noticed it in WAR. I loved the open questing there too, but as the population dropped, it became very difficult if not impossible to complete certain quests.
I'm not sure what the answer is while retaining that style of gameplay. Maybe npc's that will help out. It's also a reallly big world too, so that doesn't help in terms of population. I'm not complaining, mind you, I love the world, but that adds another aspect to declining populations if they occur.
Even beforre release many said this will happen but fans kept saying that scaling will solve this problem..however what they did forget is that majority of players like progression and rewards and that leaves no room for coming back to low level zones and do the DE'S just for the 'fun' of it. If it was true DE's in lower zones woudn't be empty which is the case these days.
Guess ' we play GW2 just for for fun and loot or rewards' supporters are really in minority
Me and many others do come back to low level zones to do events, why you ask?
It's easy, doing them help you get your dalies completed much faster than doing them in high level zones.
Yeah i wish more players were like that but sadly that is not the case. GW2 devs needs to apply more carrots for players to come back to lower zones.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I love the dynamic events, but as populations tend to drop, this is a potential problem. As the OP experienced, I first noticed it in WAR. I loved the open questing there too, but as the population dropped, it became very difficult if not impossible to complete certain quests.
I'm not sure what the answer is while retaining that style of gameplay. Maybe npc's that will help out. It's also a reallly big world too, so that doesn't help in terms of population. I'm not complaining, mind you, I love the world, but that adds another aspect to declining populations if they occur.
Even beforre release many said this will happen but fans kept saying that scaling will solve this problem..however what they did forget is that majority of players like progression and rewards and that leaves no room for coming back to low level zones and do the DE'S just for the 'fun' of it. If it was true DE's in lower zones woudn't be empty which is the case these days.
Guess ' we play GW2 just for for fun and loot or rewards' supporters are really in minority
Me and many others do come back to low level zones to do events, why you ask?
It's easy, doing them help you get your dalies completed much faster than doing them in high level zones.
Yeah i wish more players were like that but sadly that is not the case. GW2 devs needs to apply more carrots for players to come back to lower zones.
Then we will have people complaining that there are too many carrots in the game. It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't mentality.
It seems people want to either be led by the nose or get out of my way I don't need any hand holding - sometimes the same person has both mentalities......
1. you don't need DE to lvl at GW2, you have tone quests, personal story and gathering/crafting for it.
2. chain events resuming with reward chest still very popular, shame are few of such.
3. Cursed Shore offers lot of events as end game content. =XD You can farm all time there.
4. If not, try WvW, they have events too.
God, I can't imagine leveling without DEs. I would have quit the game as it was at least a third of my XP and I was never ahead of the zones I entered.
It seems people want to either be led by the nose or get out of my way I don't need any hand holding - sometimes the same person has both mentalities......
Most people just want to have enough soloable content to easily level in a game. If people really can't solo some of the DEs then this is a serious problem as there weren't enough heart quests to make up for it.
Comments
This news sounds good if not great in my point of view.
I started a topic a few days ago that I could never see myself comming back to GW2. It was way too easy and unsocial. I would have to play about four levels above to have any kind of challange, getting gear four levels above me and hold on to it until I could use it. My little point of view, Guilds were not needed as the game took care of that with auto group.
Now in what the OP is saying, then I may come back someday.....If he and many un social players don't like it then mmos may not be for them !..............I play mmos to be mmos, make friends and work togeather.
Steady, sure, growing, not in the least. Why would you claim this.
I'd like to know the exact event, as my latest previous post on another thread was pretty much a response to this and how it isn't true. Just because there are not 30+ people per event, doesn't mean there aren't a handful around for any of the tough events. The vast majority of events are soloable as well.
First of all, I think GW2 dynamic events are still ok, you can mostly solo any event that is not marked "group" and for group events you usually need only a few people (most can be done by 2 people really). So in this respect it's preatty much the same as old quest style, where you got normal soloable quests and group quests that you needed group for.
As for what can be done... I think it's kinda simple and difficult at the same time. If you make very good level scaling, you can adjust rewards so that they drop according to your level and not level of the zone. Right now high level player has little reasons to go to lower zones (apart from explorer types), but if you got the same type of rewards you get in hgh level zones, nothing would really tie you to 80 level zones. Lower level zones would still be less populated then high level zones, but at least there would be good reason to go to lower zones.
Saying that downscaling is a key.... right now, if you got to level 10 zone as level 80 char, you pretty much one shot everything... it's not so crazy as in say wow, but still you are much more powerful than your typical level 10 character. This means less work for the same reward.... and we are back at the same problem only backwards.
tl;dr; if ou want to get people into lower level zones, you need to give them same rewards as they get from doing high level content.
I think some of you are missing the point. Yes most dynamic events can be soloed. But they're tedious when done that way. Zones have been designed with the intention that there would be multiple dozens of players in them doing events together. They are a lot less fun when you're playing through them all by yourself or with a random player or two.
This is a population issue. On many servers at many times of day, there just aren't enough players in many zones for the zones to be fun to play in. The solution therefore is not L2P, go to a lower level zone, etc. it's for Arenanet to do something to get more players into those zones.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
Nope.
He's saying events are too difficult and don't scale well enough. He's wrong. Also, I don't think GW2 color codes mobs.
Whether events are fun or not is another issue. I agree they're not as fun as they used to be and ANet should try to get players to spread more. Luckily, it's what they'll be doing with Jan/Feb/March updates.
Actually, when there were 20+ people per event, you didn't have to think or do anything other than auto-attack.
With 2-3 players per DE, I think they're much better. I much prefer to defeat a champion giant or something with a handful of players compared to 20+ where you don't do jack.
I guess some folks like not dodging and using skill to defeat enemies, but prefer the mass numbers of outzerging the enemy scale (the DEs cap at a certain number of players and don't get more difficult - this was observed the first couple of weeks with 30+ people per event).
You mention skipping content and farming. Kinda glad I left now lol
That's just your opinion. Personally, I get more enjoyment finishing an event on my own or with one or two other players than I did doing the same events with my first character at launch when I could face roll my way through them. I find it much more of a challenge when you actually have to consider tactics to complete some of them.
Maybe you are in a wrong guild/server, an example , yesterday in mailstrom by the meta destroyer event, started with me and 2 more persons, we start the invite chat (map, guild and friends) , and in some minutes we got more than 40 persons to made it.
A great mistake was to put fract's on L.A., now all L80 are there to do it, and not helping so much to populate the vast world from GW2.
Maybe nobody is leaving because nobody is playing? You didn't even name the game, and no notable MMORPG releases came out in march 2008. Using some ultra obscure game that nobody plays to try to make a point is pretty silly.
They are. I've always wondered why did this game has levels.
The bigger issue in GW2 is they went against their original design with loot. Originally (and this is how it was at launch for me) once I reached level 80 and went back to the older zones, stuff my level would drop off mobs there. So I'd get lots of loot sometimes rares and sometimes exotics.
Then a month went by and they nerfed all the loot and added DR and never fixed the chests in these lower zones to actually drop level appropriate loot and made MF even more broken then it was already (ie not working on chests). so there's no reason to run around in the lower level zones.
All GW2 devs would have to do is restore loot to the launch parameters and remove DR and fix a couple of things like MF not working on chests (or not working at all) and people would return to these places because they are seriously easier then Orr. They also need to make ascended gear drop in the open world so people aren't hanging out in LA all the time.
AHH - the loot does drop based on your level not the level of the mobs. That is the way it is has always worked for me.. I think you are confused. The only place where it is level based is hidden chests and the Karma vendors in that area.
Levels arent the problem because it is just a mechanic to progress. The issue is content design. Most (if not all) MMOs today is based on a traditional tiered content approach. Easy content in the early levels which progressively get harder as you scale the tiers. The problem in my eyes is that this is too restrictive. Today I cant go from a level 1 'zone/area' to a level 20 'zone/area' because I have no means or ability to survive. Thus we as players are effectively 'funneled' through content.
There are a few options. Skyrim used one. They used level scaling where the enemies would scale within your level. That way if you went back to an area where you started and you were a higher level the enemies would still give you a challenge. This is similiar to what GW2 and its a start.
But to me the REAL 'fix' is to change the content. If you present no meaningful content at 'low' levels/areas you provide no incentive for a high level user to return. For example, if you placed one newbie starting area (and there should be several to mix it up) next to a lake, you could have high levels come back to use the lake to make or sail a boat to another area only reached from there. Thus making the area useful. If you can get people to visit an area, natural social interaction will take care of the rest.
I've been looking at ArcheAge and they had this interesting concept (apologies as I dont fully understand it yet) where you take materials to a 'drop point' to exchange for coins which are needed to purchase blueprints to build houses/etc. In the video I saw these drop points are OWPvP and showed one group of players AMBUSHING another group of players trying to deliver the coins. Content like that (which isn't player created but player driven) now makes that area relevant. It gives purpose to revisit somewhere you have been before.
MMO content/environments should be like real locations. Have a bunch of things going on and let the players choose if they want to go there (regardless of level or skill).
I love the dynamic events, but as populations tend to drop, this is a potential problem. As the OP experienced, I first noticed it in WAR. I loved the open questing there too, but as the population dropped, it became very difficult if not impossible to complete certain quests.
I'm not sure what the answer is while retaining that style of gameplay. Maybe npc's that will help out. It's also a reallly big world too, so that doesn't help in terms of population. I'm not complaining, mind you, I love the world, but that adds another aspect to declining populations if they occur.
Even beforre release many said this will happen but fans kept saying that scaling will solve this problem..however what they did forget is that majority of players like progression and rewards and that leaves no room for coming back to low level zones and do the DE'S just for the 'fun' of it. If it was true DE's in lower zones woudn't be empty which is the case these days.
Guess ' we play GW2 just for for fun and loot or rewards' supporters are really in minority
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Me and many others do come back to low level zones to do events, why you ask?
It's easy, doing them help you get your dalies completed much faster than doing them in high level zones.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Yeah i wish more players were like that but sadly that is not the case. GW2 devs needs to apply more carrots for players to come back to lower zones.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Then we will have people complaining that there are too many carrots in the game. It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't mentality.
It seems people want to either be led by the nose or get out of my way I don't need any hand holding - sometimes the same person has both mentalities......
God, I can't imagine leveling without DEs. I would have quit the game as it was at least a third of my XP and I was never ahead of the zones I entered.
Most people just want to have enough soloable content to easily level in a game. If people really can't solo some of the DEs then this is a serious problem as there weren't enough heart quests to make up for it.