The thing you don't get about TES players is that we love exploring the open world. TES:O has taken this open world away from us and want to call it TES. That's a lie.
By this logic. If they turned this MMO into 4 seperate MMO's. One for each faction and the PvP it would be ok? Then they release 4 games where you can explore the whole world included into those games it suddenly become more of a TES game?
The thing you don't get about TES players is that we love exploring the open world. TES:O has taken this open world away from us and want to call it TES. That's a lie.
By this logic. If they turned this MMO into 4 seperate MMO's. One for each faction and the PvP it would be ok? Then they release 4 games where you can explore the whole world included into those games it suddenly become more of a TES game?
I'd be happy if they made two different versions of ESO. One for the DAoC nuts that are thinking it's gonna somehow recreate RvR and then one for the actual TES fans with no faction locks for when the first one fails.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Incidentally what is the sapphen way? How would you handle pvp? Pve? Progression? Crafting? Etc..
I'd hire professional game designers on their merit rather than a name. I would make sure I had a few that worked on previous TES games and MMOs, and keep Todd Howard on speed dail. I'd start off with forming a plan, maybe sticky notes about what makes a TES game tick and see how we could make it into a MMO. With my group of designers we would toss around crazy ideas and then slowly bring them into something more feasible.
After we've ironed out some stable systems I'd hire pre-alpha testers (from MMOs and TES backgrounds) and see how they react. Read their feedback and take time to understand what they are looking for. I wouldn't try to jump on the tail of DAoC's legend (or any other game for that fact). I would try to sell and market the game on TES name alone because I have faith in their product. It would be my main goal to respect and represent their name.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Incidentally what is the sapphen way? How would you handle pvp? Pve? Progression? Crafting? Etc..
I'd hire professional game designers on their merit rather than a name. I would make sure I had a few that worked on previous TES games and MMOs, and keep Todd Howard on speed dail. I'd start off with forming a plan, maybe sticky notes about what makes a TES game tick and see how we could make it into a MMO. With my group of designers we would toss around crazy ideas and then slowly bring them into something more feasible.
After we've ironed out some stable systems I'd hire pre-alpha testers (from MMOs and TES backgrounds) and see how they react. Read their feedback and take time to understand what they are looking for. I wouldn't try to jump on the tail of DAoC's legend (or any other game for that fact). I would try to sell and market the game on TES name alone because I have faith in their product. It would be my main goal to respect and represent their name.
You do realize somethings can't be done right? What if some of TES features cannot translate into a MMO design? What if this is as close as it gets.
Faction locks was not one of them. They was added to make the game more DAoCish.
I would've tried to work all sorts of features in, such as pick-pocketing. Probably lump it in with a wPvP option letting players fight or pick-pocket if they choose to flag themselves. Would have to balance it out (I'd need to talk it over with my team of developers). Perhaps limiting what items could be pick-pocketed... would probably have a classification of some items like the opposite of BoP. Stealth would be awkward, I'd try to do it so you could pick-pocket someone by bumping into them (like real life).
Originally posted by ShakyMo Sapphen So your grand plan is exactly like tes single player, but players can voluntarily flag themselves for pvp, just for a bot of fun?
What about companions would you keep them?
What about pve in groups, well anything with other players?
What would you use instead of the much maligned hotbar seen as you can't pause a mmo?
Well if I was with a group of professional designers I would suggest that the setting be wrote so that it was 3 houses fighting for power. I would put in perks for players to join a particular faction but wouldn't take out the choice all together. Each race would have their own struggles in the world and reasons to align with the different houses.
With this I would downplay the faction pvp and funnel it into the center, Molag would be the real threat. Players could flag themselves for faction wPvP or FFA wPvP (if you didn't choose a faction then you could only flag for FFA wPvP). Non-factioned players could play in the center but they must represent one of the factions although they won't get as much points until they actually join one.
I probably wouldn't do companions for fear of stepping in SWTOR's shadow. I would rather encourage players to play the part of companions... well with more importance than a throw-away follower.
I also play MMOs so I would totally encourage PvE groups and dungeon exploration. I have a ton of smaller dungeons that would require at least 2 people to do (maybe even some solo - would probably scale). I also would like to stick some higher level mobs that requires a small group to take out so you would have to avoid them if you're by yourself. I'd consider do a type of level scaling like GW2. Everything would still have a level but going back to a lower starter area, things would be much easier to kill.
I would have a hotbar but it would be more like changing weapons. You would have a sword and shield on one, and maybe magic spells on another one. You could also drag potions and scrolls onto the hot bar. There wouldn't be abilities per-say but rather you'd switch to a set of spells and then use the mouse to excute them.
I'd explore different ways to add in practical abilites. Similar to previous TES games like hold and move right, etc. Different key and mouse combinations would preform an ability... nothing too complex. I'd add a little more flare than Skyrim but keep it the same flavor. I'd allow dual weilding of spells, using Skyrim's model but you could also combine different spells with both mouse buttons for diverse effects. Such as combining a heal and a fireball would heal you for damage dealt.
These would be my suggestions but it would honestly take a group of professions mulling over the ideas. I will not pretend that me tossing a few things off the top of my head would be perfect for the game but I would design the game around TES and not my favorite MMO.
Originally posted by ShakyMo I don't understand your "hire experienced games designers, not just people on name" part.
Matt firor and Paul sage ARE experienced game designers. From 2 generally regarded as good and successful for their time mmos.
Who do you think they are, former members of Baltimores pre eminent boy band or something.
Also good luck getting Todd Howard to head the project. HE DOES NOT LIKE MMOS
Because there are many people in the industry that has great ideas. I wouldn't flaunt Matt around like some kind of DAoC icon. I'd listen to his advice but wouldn't let him turn ESO into DAoC2.
I never said I'd get Todd Howard to head the project but I'd sure bug the hell out of him with questions and listen to his feedback.
Originally posted by ShakyMo I don't understand your "hire experienced games designers, not just people on name" part.
Matt firor and Paul sage ARE experienced game designers. From 2 generally regarded as good and successful for their time mmos.
Who do you think they are, former members of Baltimores pre eminent boy band or something.
Also good luck getting Todd Howard to head the project. HE DOES NOT LIKE MMOS
Because there are many people in the industry that has great ideas. I wouldn't flaunt Matt around like some kind of DAoC icon. I'd listen to his advice but wouldn't let him turn ESO into DAoC2.
I never said I'd get Todd Howard to head the project but I'd sure bug the hell out of him with questions and listen to his feedback.
Well your in luck because mat firor has beenin contact with todd howard from the moment he was asked to make the game
"Q: So with two teams, do you guys continually check in with Todd Howard on making sure everything is perfectly within the Elder Scrolls lore?
Matt Firor: In the early days, when it was just me when I was starting the studio up, we spent a lot of time together to go over the basics. Making sure the lore was consistent, how that was going to work, how the team was going to be set up, how the world was going to be set up."
So todd howard has been involved and gave the go ahead on the three faction split etc, or are you also more of a tes fan than him too?
Originally posted by ShakyMo I don't understand your "hire experienced games designers, not just people on name" part.
Matt firor and Paul sage ARE experienced game designers. From 2 generally regarded as good and successful for their time mmos.
Who do you think they are, former members of Baltimores pre eminent boy band or something.
Also good luck getting Todd Howard to head the project. HE DOES NOT LIKE MMOS
Because there are many people in the industry that has great ideas. I wouldn't flaunt Matt around like some kind of DAoC icon. I'd listen to his advice but wouldn't let him turn ESO into DAoC2.
I never said I'd get Todd Howard to head the project but I'd sure bug the hell out of him with questions and listen to his feedback.
Well your in luck because mat firor has beenin contact with todd howard from the moment he was asked to make the game
"Q: So with two teams, do you guys continually check in with Todd Howard on making sure everything is perfectly within the Elder Scrolls lore?
Matt Firor: In the early days, when it was just me when I was starting the studio up, we spent a lot of time together to go over the basics. Making sure the lore was consistent, how that was going to work, how the team was going to be set up, how the world was going to be set up."
So todd howard has been involved and gave the go ahead on the three faction split etc, or are you also more of a tes fan than him too?
Marketing garble. Have you ever heard Todd Howard talk about game design? I doubt very seriously that ESO has his undying support but why would they say otherwise? Sorry, I'm not buying the smoke and mirrors.
Originally posted by ShakyMo I don't understand your "hire experienced games designers, not just people on name" part.
Matt firor and Paul sage ARE experienced game designers. From 2 generally regarded as good and successful for their time mmos.
Who do you think they are, former members of Baltimores pre eminent boy band or something.
Also good luck getting Todd Howard to head the project. HE DOES NOT LIKE MMOS
Because there are many people in the industry that has great ideas. I wouldn't flaunt Matt around like some kind of DAoC icon. I'd listen to his advice but wouldn't let him turn ESO into DAoC2.
I never said I'd get Todd Howard to head the project but I'd sure bug the hell out of him with questions and listen to his feedback.
Well your in luck because mat firor has beenin contact with todd howard from the moment he was asked to make the game
"Q: So with two teams, do you guys continually check in with Todd Howard on making sure everything is perfectly within the Elder Scrolls lore?
Matt Firor: In the early days, when it was just me when I was starting the studio up, we spent a lot of time together to go over the basics. Making sure the lore was consistent, how that was going to work, how the team was going to be set up, how the world was going to be set up."
So todd howard has been involved and gave the go ahead on the three faction split etc, or are you also more of a tes fan than him too?
Marketing garble. Have you ever heard Todd Howard talk about game design? I doubt very seriously that ESO has his undying support but why would they say otherwise? Sorry, I'm not buying the smoke and mirrors.
Wow, just wow!
So now if anyone says anything that doesnt agree with you its just marketing smoke and mirrors? You dont think Todd Howard would back a tes game that isnt everything that previous tes games were? Because i'm pretty sure he was project lead on redguard, another tes spin off that changed the "core" game, granted that game failed but it does show that todd howards "vision" of whats allowed in the tes ip differs from yours
Marketing garble. Have you ever heard Todd Howard talk about game design? I doubt very seriously that ESO has his undying support but why would they say otherwise? Sorry, I'm not buying the smoke and mirrors.
Wow, just wow!
So now if anyone says anything that doesnt agree with you its just marketing smoke and mirrors? You dont think Todd Howard would back a tes game that isnt everything that previous tes games were? Because i'm pretty sure he was project lead on redguard, another tes spin off that changed the "core" game, granted that game failed but it does show that todd howards "vision" of whats allowed in the tes ip differs from yours
Stop being a tool. I didn't say 'anything' just what you posted.
My concerns are... The "Haters" if they whine enough, like they usually do. It can cause Zenimax to make bad descision and cause more harm then good to the game.
But I hope it doesnt get to that.
If Zenimax makes bad decisions due to such a small (but vocal) group, then they richly deserve to lose their investment. One would hope that they have enough experience to ignore such hysterics. Then of course there are those who are looking for the original DAOC with improved graphics... They are likely more dangerous than the "Haters". The audience has moved on from that time.
Marketing garble. Have you ever heard Todd Howard talk about game design? I doubt very seriously that ESO has his undying support but why would they say otherwise? Sorry, I'm not buying the smoke and mirrors.
Wow, just wow!
So now if anyone says anything that doesnt agree with you its just marketing smoke and mirrors? You dont think Todd Howard would back a tes game that isnt everything that previous tes games were? Because i'm pretty sure he was project lead on redguard, another tes spin off that changed the "core" game, granted that game failed but it does show that todd howards "vision" of whats allowed in the tes ip differs from yours
Stop being a tool. I didn't say 'anything' just what you posted.
You didnt say it was just marketing smoke and mirrors?
My concerns are... The "Haters" if they whine enough, like they usually do. It can cause Zenimax to make bad descision and cause more harm then good to the game.
But I hope it doesnt get to that.
If Zenimax makes bad decisions due to such a small (but vocal) group, then they richly deserve to lose their investment. One would hope that they have enough experience to ignore such hysterics. Then of course there are those who are looking for the original DAOC with improved graphics... They are likely more dangerous than the "Haters". The audience has moved on from that time.
Point of view...
Some think the bad descisions have already been made and are hoping someone corrects them. The hystericals in that situation are the people sticking fingers in their ears singling 'lalala not listenning - still gonna pay for shinnies' when these issues are raised and pointed out.
So now if anyone says anything that doesnt agree with you its just marketing smoke and mirrors? You dont think Todd Howard would back a tes game that isnt everything that previous tes games were? Because i'm pretty sure he was project lead on redguard, another tes spin off that changed the "core" game, granted that game failed but it does show that todd howards "vision" of whats allowed in the tes ip differs from yours
You didnt say it was just marketing smoke and mirrors?
You said that anytime someone says something I don't agree with it's just marketing smoke and mirrors. I only said it about the quote you posted. Therefore you have faulty logic and should go in for maintenance.
So now if anyone says anything that doesnt agree with you its just marketing smoke and mirrors? You dont think Todd Howard would back a tes game that isnt everything that previous tes games were? Because i'm pretty sure he was project lead on redguard, another tes spin off that changed the "core" game, granted that game failed but it does show that todd howards "vision" of whats allowed in the tes ip differs from yours
You didnt say it was just marketing smoke and mirrors?
You said that anytime someone says something I don't agree with it's just marketing smoke and mirrors. I only said it about the quote you posted. Therefore you have faulty logic and should go in for maintenance.
Well every time someone on the forums take a stance that you dont agree with we are labled not true tes fans, I showed that todd howard (the god of tes) has okayed the the world layout and lore, I've also shown that the main guy behind tes is fine with adding restrictions to the ip, but thats all just marketing bs.
It still ammounts to the same thing and thats if someone doesnt agree with you they are somehow wrong, not a "true" fan or lying.
Well every time someone on the forums take a stance that you dont agree with we are labled not true tes fans, I showed that todd howard (the god of tes) has okayed the the world layout and lore, I've also shown that the main guy behind tes is fine with adding restrictions to the ip, but thats all just marketing bs.
It still ammounts to the same thing and thats if someone doesnt agree with you they are somehow wrong, not a "true" fan or lying.
Just had a thought about the Todd Howard thing that made me laugh...
Matt Firor (MF)"Hey Todd. You read up my plans for the game?"
Todd Howard (TH) "Sure did matt they look great"
MF "Faction locked races, splitting up the world and restricting exploration, Fixed classes, Gated progression, Gear grind....all sound good?"
TH "All sound great...locking exploration, gated content...thumbs up from me"
MF "Great. Well I will call again next week and let you know how things are"
TH "Take care Matt, speak to you next week"
...
TH "Ha! When Matt releases that MMO no fan of TES will like it and I am SURE to get the green light for the next installment of TES as a single player game...God I hate MMO's".
Comments
By this logic. If they turned this MMO into 4 seperate MMO's. One for each faction and the PvP it would be ok? Then they release 4 games where you can explore the whole world included into those games it suddenly become more of a TES game?
I'd be happy if they made two different versions of ESO. One for the DAoC nuts that are thinking it's gonna somehow recreate RvR and then one for the actual TES fans with no faction locks for when the first one fails.
Assuming you are a TRUE tes fan. And people that like both daic and tes aren't
DAoC doesn't belong in TES.
Incidentally what is the sapphen way?
How would you handle pvp?
Pve?
Progression?
Crafting?
Etc..
I'd hire professional game designers on their merit rather than a name. I would make sure I had a few that worked on previous TES games and MMOs, and keep Todd Howard on speed dail. I'd start off with forming a plan, maybe sticky notes about what makes a TES game tick and see how we could make it into a MMO. With my group of designers we would toss around crazy ideas and then slowly bring them into something more feasible.
After we've ironed out some stable systems I'd hire pre-alpha testers (from MMOs and TES backgrounds) and see how they react. Read their feedback and take time to understand what they are looking for. I wouldn't try to jump on the tail of DAoC's legend (or any other game for that fact). I would try to sell and market the game on TES name alone because I have faith in their product. It would be my main goal to respect and represent their name.Design by comitee always works of course. 8D
Faction locks was not one of them. They was added to make the game more DAoCish.
I would've tried to work all sorts of features in, such as pick-pocketing. Probably lump it in with a wPvP option letting players fight or pick-pocket if they choose to flag themselves. Would have to balance it out (I'd need to talk it over with my team of developers). Perhaps limiting what items could be pick-pocketed... would probably have a classification of some items like the opposite of BoP. Stealth would be awkward, I'd try to do it so you could pick-pocket someone by bumping into them (like real life).
The very obvious features being group play and pvp seen as tes features neither.
So your grand plan is exactly like tes single player, but players can voluntarily flag themselves for pvp, just for a bot of fun?
What about companions would you keep them?
What about pve in groups, well anything with other players?
What would you use instead of the much maligned hotbar seen as you can't pause a mmo?
Well if I was with a group of professional designers I would suggest that the setting be wrote so that it was 3 houses fighting for power. I would put in perks for players to join a particular faction but wouldn't take out the choice all together. Each race would have their own struggles in the world and reasons to align with the different houses.
With this I would downplay the faction pvp and funnel it into the center, Molag would be the real threat. Players could flag themselves for faction wPvP or FFA wPvP (if you didn't choose a faction then you could only flag for FFA wPvP). Non-factioned players could play in the center but they must represent one of the factions although they won't get as much points until they actually join one.
I probably wouldn't do companions for fear of stepping in SWTOR's shadow. I would rather encourage players to play the part of companions... well with more importance than a throw-away follower.
I also play MMOs so I would totally encourage PvE groups and dungeon exploration. I have a ton of smaller dungeons that would require at least 2 people to do (maybe even some solo - would probably scale). I also would like to stick some higher level mobs that requires a small group to take out so you would have to avoid them if you're by yourself. I'd consider do a type of level scaling like GW2. Everything would still have a level but going back to a lower starter area, things would be much easier to kill.
I would have a hotbar but it would be more like changing weapons. You would have a sword and shield on one, and maybe magic spells on another one. You could also drag potions and scrolls onto the hot bar. There wouldn't be abilities per-say but rather you'd switch to a set of spells and then use the mouse to excute them.
I'd explore different ways to add in practical abilites. Similar to previous TES games like hold and move right, etc. Different key and mouse combinations would preform an ability... nothing too complex. I'd add a little more flare than Skyrim but keep it the same flavor. I'd allow dual weilding of spells, using Skyrim's model but you could also combine different spells with both mouse buttons for diverse effects. Such as combining a heal and a fireball would heal you for damage dealt.
These would be my suggestions but it would honestly take a group of professions mulling over the ideas. I will not pretend that me tossing a few things off the top of my head would be perfect for the game but I would design the game around TES and not my favorite MMO.
Matt firor and Paul sage ARE experienced game designers. From 2 generally regarded as good and successful for their time mmos.
Who do you think they are, former members of Baltimores pre eminent boy band or something.
Also good luck getting Todd Howard to head the project. HE DOES NOT LIKE MMOS
Because there are many people in the industry that has great ideas. I wouldn't flaunt Matt around like some kind of DAoC icon. I'd listen to his advice but wouldn't let him turn ESO into DAoC2.
I never said I'd get Todd Howard to head the project but I'd sure bug the hell out of him with questions and listen to his feedback.
Well your in luck because mat firor has beenin contact with todd howard from the moment he was asked to make the game
"Q: So with two teams, do you guys continually check in with Todd Howard on making sure everything is perfectly within the Elder Scrolls lore?
Matt Firor: In the early days, when it was just me when I was starting the studio up, we spent a lot of time together to go over the basics. Making sure the lore was consistent, how that was going to work, how the team was going to be set up, how the world was going to be set up."
So todd howard has been involved and gave the go ahead on the three faction split etc, or are you also more of a tes fan than him too?
Marketing garble. Have you ever heard Todd Howard talk about game design? I doubt very seriously that ESO has his undying support but why would they say otherwise? Sorry, I'm not buying the smoke and mirrors.
Wow, just wow!
So now if anyone says anything that doesnt agree with you its just marketing smoke and mirrors? You dont think Todd Howard would back a tes game that isnt everything that previous tes games were? Because i'm pretty sure he was project lead on redguard, another tes spin off that changed the "core" game, granted that game failed but it does show that todd howards "vision" of whats allowed in the tes ip differs from yours
Stop being a tool. I didn't say 'anything' just what you posted.
If Zenimax makes bad decisions due to such a small (but vocal) group, then they richly deserve to lose their investment. One would hope that they have enough experience to ignore such hysterics. Then of course there are those who are looking for the original DAOC with improved graphics... They are likely more dangerous than the "Haters". The audience has moved on from that time.
You didnt say it was just marketing smoke and mirrors?
Point of view...
Some think the bad descisions have already been made and are hoping someone corrects them. The hystericals in that situation are the people sticking fingers in their ears singling 'lalala not listenning - still gonna pay for shinnies' when these issues are raised and pointed out.
Again, different points of view.
You said that anytime someone says something I don't agree with it's just marketing smoke and mirrors. I only said it about the quote you posted. Therefore you have faulty logic and should go in for maintenance.
Well every time someone on the forums take a stance that you dont agree with we are labled not true tes fans, I showed that todd howard (the god of tes) has okayed the the world layout and lore, I've also shown that the main guy behind tes is fine with adding restrictions to the ip, but thats all just marketing bs.
It still ammounts to the same thing and thats if someone doesnt agree with you they are somehow wrong, not a "true" fan or lying.
Just had a thought about the Todd Howard thing that made me laugh...
Matt Firor (MF)"Hey Todd. You read up my plans for the game?"
Todd Howard (TH) "Sure did matt they look great"
MF "Faction locked races, splitting up the world and restricting exploration, Fixed classes, Gated progression, Gear grind....all sound good?"
TH "All sound great...locking exploration, gated content...thumbs up from me"
MF "Great. Well I will call again next week and let you know how things are"
TH "Take care Matt, speak to you next week"
...
TH "Ha! When Matt releases that MMO no fan of TES will like it and I am SURE to get the green light for the next installment of TES as a single player game...God I hate MMO's".