"CU first differentiator is that the entire game revolves around RvR not RvR+PvE or PvE+RvR or anything like that."
Next please.
Like the guy says this game is not going to be for everyone... and thats what is going to make this game awesome for people who like RVR games or PVP..
"CU first differentiator is that the entire game revolves around RvR not RvR+PvE or PvE+RvR or anything like that."
Next please.
niche' game is niche'
I love that he is going to focus on one thing. These developers keep trying to hit this imaginary grand slam, and please everyone, and pleasing very few. All this with these ridiculous budgets, marketing, fanfair,etc. its really gotten out of control (in my opinion) .
I really enjoy RvR, i really enjoy housing, I really like (good/important) crafting, and i really don't mind PvE as a minor part of my MMO experience. I am his target customer for this game, and i know i am in the minority.
I don't know why everyone assumes you have to go f2p to be successful in this market. As I said earlier, f2p just screams cheap to me. When you start a game as f2p it just says you cannot compete. Is that the kind of game you want?
I like what he says so far. Let's hope he can produce what he is describing.
Smaller scale scope by only focusing on RvR = Planetside 2
Focus on player owned real-estate and crafting = EvE
Fantasy genre = 90% of MMOs
Cutting out the PVE 1 month and done treadmill where people cry and cry about having no end-game is great. PVE involves massive amounts of time and money to produce content that people play for a month and then never see again. MMO after MMO has countless empty pve zones a few months in.
Combinging Planetside 2 with DAOC and throwing in some parts of EvE to create longevity sounds brilliant to me.
"CU first differentiator is that the entire game revolves around RvR not RvR+PvE or PvE+RvR or anything like that. Also, systems such as crafting and housing are also tied directly into RvR. The economy will be player-owned and crafters will be a very necessary part of the game/Community."
Smaller scale scope by only focusing on RvR = Planetside 2
Focus on player owned real-estate and crafting = EvE
Fantasy genre = 90% of MMOs
Cutting out the PVE 1 month and done treadmill where people cry and cry about having no end-game is great. PVE involves massive amounts of time and money to produce content that people play for a month and then never see again. MMO after MMO has countless empty pve zones a few months in.
Combinging Planetside 2 with DAOC and throwing in some parts of EvE to create longevity sounds brilliant to me.
Very well put, I wish them all the best and will definitely put my money where my mouth is when kickstarter campaign is up
If the RvR + crafting fitting together comes out to being anything like building your own cities for your own faction and your own guild within that faction out in a HUGE persistant environment full of resources (shadowbane) that would benefit your realm in some way, i would be all over this game.
Mark, can you save the MMO genre? I am putting my hopes and dreams in small indie studios because that is where the real innovation will be coming from in the current market. We have all been burned enough over the last 9 years. Here's hoping.
**and people, please don't forget that small scale niche MMO's have been working and profitable since the late 90's, it isn't some new thing. WoW was an outlier as it is and probably will remain the only MMO to reach subs in the double digit millions. Aiming your product at 50,000 people and having them pay $12-15 a month is perfectly fine for a small studio, you dont need to be raking in $100+ million per month to be considered successful.
I'm so hyped about getting another RvR focused turd from Mark. Warhammer Online take 2. Why do I want to play a game where I'm forced to be on teams full of people I hate? Why can't we pick our own teams? Whats with all these guys promising faux sandbox? Does anyone other than me realize what a load of crap that is?
A medieval Planetside 2 with tiered sub rates and a developmentally cheap system of PvP to keep the masses (sorry, niche group) enthralled for years on end? With very little PvE (the traditional staple of rpg progress) to boot? Hmm where have I seen this focus on PvP with PvE lite content before?
Warhammer Online
Global Agenda
Darkfall
Mortal Online
Every mmo to date needs strong PvE elements worth fighting for. The "great" Shadowbane had sense enough to understand this most basic mmorpg concept. Even DAoC had it's fair share of PvE content that was unique to which ever side you chose to support. Dunno, I just think that many here are too quick to write off tradition without giving thought to MJ's most obvious reasons for doing so: PvE content is bad for business. PvP on the other hand is cheaper to make, last longer and requires less maintenance. I mean this is the same guy that said earlier that you need dragons to appeal to asian mmo players. Yeah real insight there.
Either way it goes, it will be entertaining to see how this pans out. It just seems to me that all the aging developers that started the genre are fast approaching that stage in their careers where they hope to cash in on name recognition alone. Well that and a few buzzwords to mez the masses that stumble and drool with every word they mutter. Dunno. I always played the games that appealed to me because I liked the game itself, not who's name was attached to it. Oh well. Here's hoping that this endeavor turns out to be just what all you RvR guys have been wishing for.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I don't know why everyone assumes you have to go f2p to be successful in this market. As I said earlier, f2p just screams cheap to me. When you start a game as f2p it just says you cannot compete. Is that the kind of game you want?
I like what he says so far. Let's hope he can produce what he is describing.
Funny because P2P just screams empty cash grab to me. Kickstarter, tiered subs (warning danger will robinson), and niche profits.
What is it you pro sub-locked fans always say? You get what you pay for.
p2p is a cash grab? Its stated up front, 15/month for 24/7 entertainment and no restrictions for 30 days....... how is that a cash grab? Old games charged 2$/hour now you get the same entertainment for an entire 30 days for 50 cents per day. Find me cheaper entertainment. MMORPG subscription prices are about the only thing in our economy that hasnt risen 300% since a decade ago.
F2P are cheap, their updates are usualy centered around their cash shops to milk more out of you.
Kickstarters so far have been mostly f2p games......... just saying.
You statement is full of holes.
Now look at it from the other point of view. You are a business owner of lets say a all you can eat buffet establishment.
You serve 1000 people per day and charging everyone the same you make killing profits.
Over time you dumb your food down, offer less food, and your food becomes bland and people dont want to pay any longer.
Is that the pay models fault of the owners fault?
So you decide to start letting people eat for free...........
3000 people show up and only 5 per every 100 pay anything towards the food. But you have to pay for more tables, chairs, ishes, and food. Are you honestly thinking that will make you more profit?
So now you have around 150 paying customers out of your 3000, and 150 is greater than your original 1000 customers? All because you tried to cut corners and spend less time making quality food thinking so many will just pay up for half the work done.
Simple fact, the newer game suck, copy wow way too much, offer no long term playability, remove features, force you down a set path, remove your choice and freedom, and people are sick of that. If the game sucks to begin with and no one wants to pay, turning it f2p wont make the game any better.
All these old school MMOs are getting remakes... I'm still waiting for an Ultima Online remake ):
Looks promising, definitely adding it to my watch list, high time the sandbox MMO makes a come back; I'm tired of boring quest based carebear MMOs that have no risk.
A medieval Planetside 2 with tiered sub rates and a developmentally cheap system of PvP to keep the masses (sorry, niche group) enthralled for years on end? With very little PvE (the traditional staple of rpg progress) to boot? Hmm where have I seen this focus on PvP with PvE lite content before?
Warhammer Online
Global Agenda
Darkfall
Mortal Online
Every mmo to date needs strong PvE elements worth fighting for. The "great" Shadowbane had sense enough to understand this most basic mmorpg concept. Even DAoC had it's fair share of PvE content that was unique to which ever side you chose to support. Dunno, I just think that many here are too quick to write off tradition without giving thought to MJ's most obvious reasons for doing so: PvE content is bad for business. PvP on the other hand is cheaper to make, last longer and requires less maintenance. I mean this is the same guy that said earlier that you need dragons to appeal to asian mmo players. Yeah real insight there.
Either way it goes, it will be entertaining to see how this pans out. It just seems to me that all the aging developers that started the genre are fast approaching that stage in their careers where they hope to cash in on name recognition alone. Well that and a few buzzwords to mez the masses that stumble and drool with every word they mutter. Dunno. I always played the games that appealed to me because I liked the game itself, not who's name was attached to it. Oh well. Here's hoping that this endeavor turns out to be just what all you RvR guys have been wishing for.
Yes people need to remain skeptical, but the games you pointed out are not direct comparisons. You left out Planetside 2 even though you mentioned it 2 lines up and it is probably the best example of how a non-pve game can do well.
You are also missing the most obvious examples of hugely successful online games that have almost zero content - Leage of Legends, DOTA 2, HoN, Smite, etc..
The point is that the number of people who are willing to play PVE focused games for more than a month is low outside of WoW. SWTOR is the most obvious exaple of hundreds of millions spent on content that didn't have any longevity.
MJ is being honest about his experiences, and he seems to have learned from past mistakes that were pushed by EA.
This game is happening so those who are skeptical or negative, whats the point? If it's your cup of tea than drink it, other wise move on to what floats your personal boat...
Myself, I am very curious for a "RVR only" version of DAOC. It could work, it may work so well that it's niche target is missed and it becomes main stream. who knows.
If they truly learn from past mistakes, don't fix what wasn't broken and add new elements that fit, it could be a masterpiece. I'm also a glass half full sort of person, life is more pleasant that way.
I wonder how they will work progression into CU without PVE though. Sure you can gain levels and realm abilities via RVR, like in DAOC but what about equiping yourself to stand a chance? People need a carrot to chase, to earn. Something not easily attainable.
That area must be where he said "Crafting" will be very important. The more one thinks about CU the more interesting it becomes.
The problem with bringing a MMO to kickstarter is that we have been burnt by the industry so many times it doesn't matter how great your MMO sounds we are not going to buy it until we see a good demo or reviews.
Sandbox with the man who did DAOC and bringing it back oldschool in a kickstarter campaign? Excuse my french but count me the FU@# in!!!!!! Someone link me that kickstarter page so I can donate to this thing ASAP
Comments
"CU first differentiator is that the entire game revolves around RvR not RvR+PvE or PvE+RvR or anything like that."
Next please.
Like the guy says this game is not going to be for everyone... and thats what is going to make this game awesome for people who like RVR games or PVP..
niche' game is niche'
I love that he is going to focus on one thing. These developers keep trying to hit this imaginary grand slam, and please everyone, and pleasing very few. All this with these ridiculous budgets, marketing, fanfair,etc. its really gotten out of control (in my opinion) .
I really enjoy RvR, i really enjoy housing, I really like (good/important) crafting, and i really don't mind PvE as a minor part of my MMO experience. I am his target customer for this game, and i know i am in the minority.
niche' game is niche'
oh you pro elite player you! You tell them how it is to be hardcore... go get em girl - I mean MAD SKILLS BAD ASS ELITE PLAYER
A fresh coat of paint on a car that can't get out of first gear won't make it sell any better.
These game developers are really stuck in a rut.
Once upon a time....
I don't know why everyone assumes you have to go f2p to be successful in this market. As I said earlier, f2p just screams cheap to me. When you start a game as f2p it just says you cannot compete. Is that the kind of game you want?
I like what he says so far. Let's hope he can produce what he is describing.
Many will see this as DAOC 2 ..
The Tens of thousands that LEFT DAoC because of TOA plus the current players and those who Once played... may find this something they HAVE to try.
I like what I am hearing.
Smaller scale scope by only focusing on RvR = Planetside 2
Focus on player owned real-estate and crafting = EvE
Fantasy genre = 90% of MMOs
Cutting out the PVE 1 month and done treadmill where people cry and cry about having no end-game is great. PVE involves massive amounts of time and money to produce content that people play for a month and then never see again. MMO after MMO has countless empty pve zones a few months in.
Combinging Planetside 2 with DAOC and throwing in some parts of EvE to create longevity sounds brilliant to me.
"CU first differentiator is that the entire game revolves around RvR not RvR+PvE or PvE+RvR or anything like that. Also, systems such as crafting and housing are also tied directly into RvR. The economy will be player-owned and crafters will be a very necessary part of the game/Community."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_B3dvFMyDE
Very well put, I wish them all the best and will definitely put my money where my mouth is when kickstarter campaign is up
If the RvR + crafting fitting together comes out to being anything like building your own cities for your own faction and your own guild within that faction out in a HUGE persistant environment full of resources (shadowbane) that would benefit your realm in some way, i would be all over this game.
Mark, can you save the MMO genre? I am putting my hopes and dreams in small indie studios because that is where the real innovation will be coming from in the current market. We have all been burned enough over the last 9 years. Here's hoping.
**and people, please don't forget that small scale niche MMO's have been working and profitable since the late 90's, it isn't some new thing. WoW was an outlier as it is and probably will remain the only MMO to reach subs in the double digit millions. Aiming your product at 50,000 people and having them pay $12-15 a month is perfectly fine for a small studio, you dont need to be raking in $100+ million per month to be considered successful.
As much as I like ps2, and I do think its the best mmo of the last 6 years or so.
I would be in my element with a ps1 meets daoc meets eve mmo
PigEye McNasty
DFOUW NA
This.
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A medieval Planetside 2 with tiered sub rates and a developmentally cheap system of PvP to keep the masses (sorry, niche group) enthralled for years on end? With very little PvE (the traditional staple of rpg progress) to boot? Hmm where have I seen this focus on PvP with PvE lite content before?
Every mmo to date needs strong PvE elements worth fighting for. The "great" Shadowbane had sense enough to understand this most basic mmorpg concept. Even DAoC had it's fair share of PvE content that was unique to which ever side you chose to support. Dunno, I just think that many here are too quick to write off tradition without giving thought to MJ's most obvious reasons for doing so: PvE content is bad for business. PvP on the other hand is cheaper to make, last longer and requires less maintenance. I mean this is the same guy that said earlier that you need dragons to appeal to asian mmo players. Yeah real insight there.
Either way it goes, it will be entertaining to see how this pans out. It just seems to me that all the aging developers that started the genre are fast approaching that stage in their careers where they hope to cash in on name recognition alone. Well that and a few buzzwords to mez the masses that stumble and drool with every word they mutter. Dunno. I always played the games that appealed to me because I liked the game itself, not who's name was attached to it. Oh well. Here's hoping that this endeavor turns out to be just what all you RvR guys have been wishing for.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
p2p is a cash grab? Its stated up front, 15/month for 24/7 entertainment and no restrictions for 30 days....... how is that a cash grab? Old games charged 2$/hour now you get the same entertainment for an entire 30 days for 50 cents per day. Find me cheaper entertainment. MMORPG subscription prices are about the only thing in our economy that hasnt risen 300% since a decade ago.
F2P are cheap, their updates are usualy centered around their cash shops to milk more out of you.
Kickstarters so far have been mostly f2p games......... just saying.
You statement is full of holes.
Now look at it from the other point of view. You are a business owner of lets say a all you can eat buffet establishment.
You serve 1000 people per day and charging everyone the same you make killing profits.
Over time you dumb your food down, offer less food, and your food becomes bland and people dont want to pay any longer.
Is that the pay models fault of the owners fault?
So you decide to start letting people eat for free...........
3000 people show up and only 5 per every 100 pay anything towards the food. But you have to pay for more tables, chairs, ishes, and food. Are you honestly thinking that will make you more profit?
So now you have around 150 paying customers out of your 3000, and 150 is greater than your original 1000 customers? All because you tried to cut corners and spend less time making quality food thinking so many will just pay up for half the work done.
Simple fact, the newer game suck, copy wow way too much, offer no long term playability, remove features, force you down a set path, remove your choice and freedom, and people are sick of that. If the game sucks to begin with and no one wants to pay, turning it f2p wont make the game any better.
All these old school MMOs are getting remakes... I'm still waiting for an Ultima Online remake ):
Looks promising, definitely adding it to my watch list, high time the sandbox MMO makes a come back; I'm tired of boring quest based carebear MMOs that have no risk.
Yes people need to remain skeptical, but the games you pointed out are not direct comparisons. You left out Planetside 2 even though you mentioned it 2 lines up and it is probably the best example of how a non-pve game can do well.
You are also missing the most obvious examples of hugely successful online games that have almost zero content - Leage of Legends, DOTA 2, HoN, Smite, etc..
The point is that the number of people who are willing to play PVE focused games for more than a month is low outside of WoW. SWTOR is the most obvious exaple of hundreds of millions spent on content that didn't have any longevity.
MJ is being honest about his experiences, and he seems to have learned from past mistakes that were pushed by EA.
This game is happening so those who are skeptical or negative, whats the point? If it's your cup of tea than drink it, other wise move on to what floats your personal boat...
Myself, I am very curious for a "RVR only" version of DAOC. It could work, it may work so well that it's niche target is missed and it becomes main stream. who knows.
If they truly learn from past mistakes, don't fix what wasn't broken and add new elements that fit, it could be a masterpiece. I'm also a glass half full sort of person, life is more pleasant that way.
I wonder how they will work progression into CU without PVE though. Sure you can gain levels and realm abilities via RVR, like in DAOC but what about equiping yourself to stand a chance? People need a carrot to chase, to earn. Something not easily attainable.
That area must be where he said "Crafting" will be very important. The more one thinks about CU the more interesting it becomes.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.