Online shared world with persistent characters w/ progression....
Class based mechanics (heavily hinted at in recent videa showing Titan, Warlock, Hunter "classes")
It blurs the line between "traditional" multiplayer and massively multiplayer.
Will it have offline play?
PMOTPS?
Persistent Online Multiplayer Third Person Shooter?
LOL whatever it doesn't matter.
MMO or not MMO, I'm happy MMORPG.com is covering.
I agree 100%. You can talk about what it's not all you want - do you want it taken off the site? Does its presence offend you?
Personally, I'm all about supporting games which bend genres, that are part this and part that and part something else. If you're making something that doesn't fit into that same cookie cutter categorization, you're trying something new, and innovation is always good. I really hope this game ends up being cool.
I think it's important to classify it right. Not that I'm against it being here or whatever, but just to make sure you get the right idea about it.
I still thought it was gonna be a full fledged MMO when I saw that latest gameplay footage, but had real big trouble picturing how that works in an open world (things like sending a probe flying to light up a place then a scripted event etc.) unless everything is public events on a loop.
Being a shared world shooter I can definitely picture it better, though I still don't get how the events that they classified as public are supposed to work.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Judging from the E3 gameplay demo and interviews, I think it's safe to say that it's...
Okay, I'm not that stupid XD
Obviously they're still optimizing their server capacity and adjusting the size of the maps(but there're vehicles in the game so it's likely not gonna be too small), so it's hard to tell if there're gonna be hundreds of people in the same area or not, but yeah they DID say there will be instances and PUBLIC AREAS. In these public areas you'll see strangers with name tags running around doing stuff that you might not care about, or maybe killing world bosses with you from time to time. They also mentioned sort of a hub area(city) that you can meet with people in 3rd person PoV, also there's a "fire team" system at work which you'll (have to?) join before you go into a map or a pvp match.
It's definitely gonna be more "MMOish" than CoD, BF and whatever... but will Destiny be like Defiance, Firefall or PS2? Personally I really doubt it. Just look at the lighting, particle effects and the general graphics!! It's too beautiful to be a MMO in the modern sense... Of course I wish Bungie can prove me wrong
In the gameplay walkthrough they showed a public event with a bunch of players. So why have public events if it wont have many players in open world environments?
So Destiny will be based in an open online persistent world in which you will have the opportunity to run into random players, but it is not an MMO? We will have multiple races, factions, and skill trees. So they will make use of instancing. So it will not have specific "servers" or "realms" separating characters. Sounds like somewhere between Defiance which makes use of multiple instances of the same world and Guild Wars 1 & 2. These are classified as MMOs, are they not?
While Bungie wants to be adamant about claiming Destiny is not an MMO, they have provided no reason it is not except by simply saying it is not an MMO. Yet all the information they have released indicates it has several trademarks of what make the average player think of when they hear a game is an MMO. It seems to me Bungie is only trying to separate themselves from all the "flops" the MMO genre has been so unfortunate to witness. Among these is being declared the "WoW killer" or "WoW clone" aside from horrible launches in which hype and promises did not meet expectations like we saw in Final Fantasy XIV, Neverwinter Nights, Vanguard, etc.... On top of these messes are the dreaded micro transaction, pay to win, and expectations of some that current MMOs should be free and you really have one messy genre.
I can't blame Bungie for trying to distance their game from the MMO genre, but when all the information they have released to date has all the hallmarks any average player associates with an MMORPG/FPS it is hard to establish it is not an MMO. What is the old saying? If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck it must be a.... So until Bungie provides information to make people see the game as anything other than an MMO, the media and consumers will continue to call it an MMO, because that is what genre it resembles.
This game isn't an MMO. The Massive part in MMO refers to the massive amount of players there are in a single instance of the game playing together, NOT the size of the world. It's why games like Diabloe 2 and 3 are NOT MMOs. It's why GTA online is NOT an MMO. Come on people. You can't just make up your own logic and change the definition of something like that. Online games can have plenty of MMO themes or tendencies, but they still aren't MMOs just because of certain aspects.
Sorry to break your heart OP but I'm pretty sure you will look back on this statement and kick yourself. Unless it is a troll post then you might look back on you life and kick yourself.
Such a beautiful game, another potential genre changer, destroyed and limited by the confines of a silly console. It could be an MMO. It should have been an MMO. When they all meet and decide how to *Port* it to the PC, it'll be worse than Defiance, less of a game, all in the name of money.
By what seems to be the common consensus in these forums and the staff...pacman with 2 players on screen at once with a persistent maze and a lobby would be a MMO.Destiny far exceeds that.
DO I personally think it's an MMO?Nope.But I can accept I am no longer in the majority view and this new watered down broad definition is now the accepted norm.
Obviously from the above I do not accept it graciously hehe.
While it's not being advertised as an MMO, it's on this site along with a few others who don't typically fit the category... sooo... whatever.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed: And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!" ~Lord George Gordon Byron
I thinks all these free-to-play massive multiplayer online games have really changed the idea of what is massive. I remember playing games that advertised it being within the genre only to realize that there were only a fewelements of the game(or rather the technology supporting it). But obviously I could tell the difference.
When I think of a massive multiplayer online roleplaying(or whatever) game I think of this:
A game world on a dedicated server housing thousands of players. It's a zoned or seamless persistent space. But what really makes a difference in the definition is the amount of players a person can encounter almost anywhere within a certain radius around their avatar. It's not 5 or 6. But the ability to have a 100 or more players exist within the space nearby you. I'm not talking about hubs either. We're talking about vistas outside of cities, dungeons, mountains, rolling hills, never ending grass plains.Also the definition of persistent in a MMORPG means more than just a server that's always on. Example, if a player drops Item A at Location B then any other player on the server can pick it up at anytime of the day as long as it remains on the ground(or until it despawns).So even if you were 30 minutes away on foot, if the items is still there you can pick it up.
Technology has changed where these persistent worlds use a form of instancing to manage player population. The best example of this is mega server technology which will be used in The Elder Scrolls Online. The game still follows the description above but there are several instances of the same world. So instead having multipe servers, everyone plays on one mega server through several instances.
Games like Guild Wars create the illusion of a MMORPG. It uses similar gameplay mechanics, and a varation of the technology to house players. Games like Lord of the Rings Online, World of Warcraft, and almost any other second generation MMORPG today uses instancing. But the concept is centered around interior dungeons, and world changing events. In fact the only real restriction of the later in terms of population is based on quest progression.
Destiny to me sounds like an Open-World Multiplayer Shooters instead of a Massive Multiplayer Online Shooter. Here's one thing that could make Destiny cross the line(for me anyway). How large and open is the game world? Let's exclude the protocol regarding said amount of players. If the design is not linear like Borderlands, and the game is truly open ended like Skyrim(in fact, 10x larger) I can see where we start to blur the line(Day Z for instance).
And let's even consider the amount of square miles or kilometers. Asheron's Call has over 500 square miles of seamless land. Let's take a look at The Elder Scrolls series. Did you know that even though Daggerfall was mostly randomly generated it was twice the size of Great Britian, making the island of Vvardenfell(in TESIII) 0.01% the size of it's predecessors? In ESO it takes 30 minutes or so to run across Cyrodiil.
I have clearly defined what I think massive-multiplayer is. We're talking about persistence, sheer size, and population which games like Destiny(and even Day Z) are dwarfed in comparison.
Originally posted by Venomania It's annoying when people try and say "It's not an MMO", it IS an MMO. Marketing mumble jumble doesn't change facts. It's an mmo. There are plenty of MMO's that have variations on instanced worlds. Seemless, instanced zones/maps. I could describe every MMO as something else, make some fancy pants none MMO term for what type of game they are. Lol Coined the term MOBA, it caught on and now it is a genre. This is not the same situation, this game doesnt do anything different enough to warent anew genre. It is an mmo-shooter.
Aeon of Strife mod for Starcraft was the first moba and the first to use the term. Where you get League of Legends inventing anything is beyond me.
As for the "mmo/notmmo" argument, this site stopped catering to actual mmos a long time ago, so no point in even arguing about it.
both those were maps,not really a game.the game itself was not a moba
Just want to make sure this is said, so people don't get misinformed by the media and fans.
but the developers themselves have said its not a MMO. It's a shared world shooter. Not MMO shooter.
i see lots of media sites spreading this misinformation that this is a MMO, when the people making it said its not.
now it even has its own forum here on a MMO site which will cause even more confusion and misleading.
not sure if that's intended.
it is a massive multiplayer online,they can call it whatever they want but that does not change the fact its an mmo,what the heck is a shared world?its not multiplayer ,lots of people just happen to be on it at same time.please ignore the other people they are just 'sharing' the world.
If you want a true mmo shooter, none of this faked business, you should checkout divergence and help support the project!
www.Divergence-Online.com
Agreed Ethan! Activision Blizzard, and all the rest of these profiteering gluttons who only care about the almighty dollar that have no heart, that care nothing for the games they create other then to make a quick buck and move onto the next project can stuff it!
Divergence all the Way!! Keep up the great work Ethan. I love supporting indie projects were the development team actually gives a damn about their creations and not just see it completely as a great big gold mine.
The devs have said that its a persistent online shared world where you will also be able to see other people in the distance running around doing their own business. There are also public events where anyone can join in when run across like in guild Wars 2 and such. Sounds like an mmo to me. The reason devs dont use the term mmo on the media is because the term has such a bad reputation in the gaming industry especially towards console gamers. Because people will automatically think that it will be like WoW and other generic games of the genre where its tab targeting slow boring combat, crappy graphics and horrid WoW style interfaces with clutter all over the screen. Majority of console gamers and me personally dont like those things.
Originally posted by Stizzled There are no MMOs anymore, just singleplayer games ran on a server where once in a while people happen to bump into one another. MMOs died the moment that some genius decided that they needed to make players feel special, so now everyone has an epic storyline to follow, other players just get in the way of that.
Just changed the name, or the meaning of the label MMO .. problem solved.
Comments
I agree 100%. You can talk about what it's not all you want - do you want it taken off the site? Does its presence offend you?
Personally, I'm all about supporting games which bend genres, that are part this and part that and part something else. If you're making something that doesn't fit into that same cookie cutter categorization, you're trying something new, and innovation is always good. I really hope this game ends up being cool.
I think it's important to classify it right. Not that I'm against it being here or whatever, but just to make sure you get the right idea about it.
I still thought it was gonna be a full fledged MMO when I saw that latest gameplay footage, but had real big trouble picturing how that works in an open world (things like sending a probe flying to light up a place then a scripted event etc.) unless everything is public events on a loop.
Being a shared world shooter I can definitely picture it better, though I still don't get how the events that they classified as public are supposed to work.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I agree Mr. Spock.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Judging from the E3 gameplay demo and interviews, I think it's safe to say that it's...
Okay, I'm not that stupid XD
Obviously they're still optimizing their server capacity and adjusting the size of the maps(but there're vehicles in the game so it's likely not gonna be too small), so it's hard to tell if there're gonna be hundreds of people in the same area or not, but yeah they DID say there will be instances and PUBLIC AREAS. In these public areas you'll see strangers with name tags running around doing stuff that you might not care about, or maybe killing world bosses with you from time to time. They also mentioned sort of a hub area(city) that you can meet with people in 3rd person PoV, also there's a "fire team" system at work which you'll (have to?) join before you go into a map or a pvp match.
It's definitely gonna be more "MMOish" than CoD, BF and whatever... but will Destiny be like Defiance, Firefall or PS2? Personally I really doubt it. Just look at the lighting, particle effects and the general graphics!! It's too beautiful to be a MMO in the modern sense... Of course I wish Bungie can prove me wrong
My theme song.
So Destiny will be based in an open online persistent world in which you will have the opportunity to run into random players, but it is not an MMO? We will have multiple races, factions, and skill trees. So they will make use of instancing. So it will not have specific "servers" or "realms" separating characters. Sounds like somewhere between Defiance which makes use of multiple instances of the same world and Guild Wars 1 & 2. These are classified as MMOs, are they not?
While Bungie wants to be adamant about claiming Destiny is not an MMO, they have provided no reason it is not except by simply saying it is not an MMO. Yet all the information they have released indicates it has several trademarks of what make the average player think of when they hear a game is an MMO. It seems to me Bungie is only trying to separate themselves from all the "flops" the MMO genre has been so unfortunate to witness. Among these is being declared the "WoW killer" or "WoW clone" aside from horrible launches in which hype and promises did not meet expectations like we saw in Final Fantasy XIV, Neverwinter Nights, Vanguard, etc.... On top of these messes are the dreaded micro transaction, pay to win, and expectations of some that current MMOs should be free and you really have one messy genre.
I can't blame Bungie for trying to distance their game from the MMO genre, but when all the information they have released to date has all the hallmarks any average player associates with an MMORPG/FPS it is hard to establish it is not an MMO. What is the old saying? If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck it must be a.... So until Bungie provides information to make people see the game as anything other than an MMO, the media and consumers will continue to call it an MMO, because that is what genre it resembles.
Just my 2 cents.
I disagree, I feel it is... just saying
ITT: PEople don't know what MMOs are.
This game isn't an MMO. The Massive part in MMO refers to the massive amount of players there are in a single instance of the game playing together, NOT the size of the world. It's why games like Diabloe 2 and 3 are NOT MMOs. It's why GTA online is NOT an MMO. Come on people. You can't just make up your own logic and change the definition of something like that. Online games can have plenty of MMO themes or tendencies, but they still aren't MMOs just because of certain aspects.
Just a quick search but multiple article like this have been posted about the game. http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/19/destiny-match-making-public-areas-and-social-interaction-discussed-by-bungie/. Bungie wants its game to be called a fps first and foremost, but at the end of the day most people who write an article about the game pretty much state that it does have more in common with an MMO than not.
Sorry to break your heart OP but I'm pretty sure you will look back on this statement and kick yourself. Unless it is a troll post then you might look back on you life and kick yourself.
What, exactly, does that even mean? "Shared world shooter"?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It means its an mmo. Just watch the videos people with random folk jumping in random world events.
They even have a frigging magic class.....
Really? Come on...
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
half of the games listed on this site are not mmorpg..
The vision of mmorpg... is to get as many vistiors to this site as possible like every other site ofcourse..
So extend it will games
Give it up.
By what seems to be the common consensus in these forums and the staff...pacman with 2 players on screen at once with a persistent maze and a lobby would be a MMO.Destiny far exceeds that.
DO I personally think it's an MMO?Nope.But I can accept I am no longer in the majority view and this new watered down broad definition is now the accepted norm.
Obviously from the above I do not accept it graciously hehe.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I thinks all these free-to-play massive multiplayer online games have really changed the idea of what is massive. I remember playing games that advertised it being within the genre only to realize that there were only a fewelements of the game(or rather the technology supporting it). But obviously I could tell the difference.
When I think of a massive multiplayer online roleplaying(or whatever) game I think of this:
A game world on a dedicated server housing thousands of players. It's a zoned or seamless persistent space. But what really makes a difference in the definition is the amount of players a person can encounter almost anywhere within a certain radius around their avatar. It's not 5 or 6. But the ability to have a 100 or more players exist within the space nearby you. I'm not talking about hubs either. We're talking about vistas outside of cities, dungeons, mountains, rolling hills, never ending grass plains. Also the definition of persistent in a MMORPG means more than just a server that's always on. Example, if a player drops Item A at Location B then any other player on the server can pick it up at anytime of the day as long as it remains on the ground(or until it despawns). So even if you were 30 minutes away on foot, if the items is still there you can pick it up.
Technology has changed where these persistent worlds use a form of instancing to manage player population. The best example of this is mega server technology which will be used in The Elder Scrolls Online. The game still follows the description above but there are several instances of the same world. So instead having multipe servers, everyone plays on one mega server through several instances.
Games like Guild Wars create the illusion of a MMORPG. It uses similar gameplay mechanics, and a varation of the technology to house players. Games like Lord of the Rings Online, World of Warcraft, and almost any other second generation MMORPG today uses instancing. But the concept is centered around interior dungeons, and world changing events. In fact the only real restriction of the later in terms of population is based on quest progression.
Destiny to me sounds like an Open-World Multiplayer Shooters instead of a Massive Multiplayer Online Shooter. Here's one thing that could make Destiny cross the line(for me anyway). How large and open is the game world? Let's exclude the protocol regarding said amount of players. If the design is not linear like Borderlands, and the game is truly open ended like Skyrim(in fact, 10x larger) I can see where we start to blur the line(Day Z for instance).
And let's even consider the amount of square miles or kilometers. Asheron's Call has over 500 square miles of seamless land. Let's take a look at The Elder Scrolls series. Did you know that even though Daggerfall was mostly randomly generated it was twice the size of Great Britian, making the island of Vvardenfell(in TESIII) 0.01% the size of it's predecessors? In ESO it takes 30 minutes or so to run across Cyrodiil.
I have clearly defined what I think massive-multiplayer is. We're talking about persistence, sheer size, and population which games like Destiny(and even Day Z) are dwarfed in comparison.
both those were maps,not really a game.the game itself was not a moba
it is a massive multiplayer online,they can call it whatever they want but that does not change the fact its an mmo,what the heck is a shared world?its not multiplayer ,lots of people just happen to be on it at same time.please ignore the other people they are just 'sharing' the world.
they are NOT mmo, you are limited to a very few people and not persistant
Agreed Ethan! Activision Blizzard, and all the rest of these profiteering gluttons who only care about the almighty dollar that have no heart, that care nothing for the games they create other then to make a quick buck and move onto the next project can stuff it!
Divergence all the Way!! Keep up the great work Ethan. I love supporting indie projects were the development team actually gives a damn about their creations and not just see it completely as a great big gold mine.
Good .. sounds like it will be a good game, and i don't have to deal with many other players if i don't want to.
Just changed the name, or the meaning of the label MMO .. problem solved.