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Disappointed engineer.
itgrowls
Member Posts: 2,951
I've had my share of disappointments when it comes to devs doing weird things post launch but never like I've seen in this game.
I've posted on multiple reasons why before, the shoddy economy, the lack of DE metas, the lack of concern the devs have for squashing bugs in the three weakest and subsequently least played classes, the list goes on.
But one of the things that bugs me was the lack of roleplay, it showed in the personal stories big time. Engineers weren't just engineers because they were given things to use that magically reformed and were useable again after a timer. They were given special knowledge and the nack to fix things and put things together. Apparently no one there at Anet thought about this while writing or developing the game and it shows. Throughout the personal story one runs into problems that could have easily been fixed by the engineer. Even in WvW engineers aren't allowed to repair anything even siege equipment.
The design of this class defies physics and that's the final straw for me. Weapons that are slow and sluggish on land work as intended and often even faster then physics will allow underwater. That was the final straw for me. The idea that they couldn't get the basic rules of behavior right for combat for this class just baffles the imagination. And I've heard the logical fallacy argument before that it's a fantasy game, well that doesn't excuse how most abilities on this class deal with explosions and heat but somehow doesn't catch anything on fire, you have to trait into that for it to work and then burning only lasts a few seconds, bleeds are the same way, as if bullets and shrapnel wouldn't already cause bleeding in the first place.
And then there was the whole mounts thing. I thought about it and originally I was against mounts but as I look back I realize just how wrong I was about that. There are plenty of RL gadgets to get around faster, even those that are based on steam power are in the museums, so why can't the abilities of the engineer reflect that knowledge properly, why isn't someone on the Anet team making a case about this, why did they drop the ball on engineers being as uneducated as the begger on the corner?
As a last minute Adventurer class When running everywhere one shouldn't have to equip and unequip a kit to run faster while others of the same type of class get a permanent out of combat speed boost. That's right, engineers were suddenly changed to an adventurer class last minute before launch instead of a Heavy Armor wearing class like how other games portrayed this type of personna. And because of this this class has been broken, it cannot fulfill one of the new Arenanet trinity types, DPS, doesn't get a faster run speed, and all of it's traits are for support/CC. It's been like this since launch, you play any other class and there's a symmetry, a sense of balance that makes the class feel right even with the bugs that necros and rangers contend with they have that symmetry, not the engineers. It's pure chaos.
I found another title that looks more promising then this one because they seem to understand what this knowledge brings as far as benefits. I'll be watching it closely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ynmn3DjIDqA#t=117s
What I don't understand is why is this the only other game in existence (other then World of Warcraft to my knowledge) that has motorcycles as mounts, when there are plenty of other titles out there that have steamtek in their lore. Why is it that an Indy game can get this personna so right, this knowledge right when a AAA title can't even get the weapons to work like the laws of physics demand.
Comments
I have an 80 necro and 80 ranger and and 30 engineer. I also have a 30ish warrior. Guess which class seems the most powerful...lol.
I do think the ranger would be ok if there was something to do with the pets in dungeons other than die and lose 40% of your dps. Something like a sacrifice that the Warlocks had in WoW. Kill your pet and get a buff, but you are stronger with the pet out. At least my ranger is fun. Can't say the same for the engineer and the necro.
I don't know how to fix engineers as their lack of weapon choices and skills are keeping me from maxing that toon out. And don't say kits are great because they aren't...they are snore inducing.
Necro's got some love in the previous patch but they still are not very fun to play. Playing a toon that counts on conditions is pretty tough with a 25 condition cap. Not to mention the lack of combo finishers and hilariously useless "pets".
Edit: OP I blame PvP "balance" for most of the bland pointless skills. Too bad they didn't stick to their original ideas and separate PvE and PvP abilities.
Well what can I say, Itgrowls. I recall a bunch of the things you mentioned being continually discussed on various forums long before the game launched. I even remember people arguing whether the Engineer belonged in game at all after the class reveal.
Long story short, Arena Net made their choices known back then and the GW2 cheeraleading squad backed them to the hilt and spewed derision down on anyone who suggested Areana Net's vision was anything but perfect. So now that the honeymoon period has worn off and some fans are seeing the game in a different light, well sorry but I'm afraid its a little too late. The game is what it is and I serioulsy doubt if they are going to go back to the drawing board to redesign core game elements at this stage. You reap what you sow.
If you dont do stupid things while youre young, youll have nothing to smile about when youre old.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
"The design of this class defies physics and that's the final straw for me. Weapons that are slow and sluggish on land work as intended and often even faster then physics will allow underwater."
"weapons to work like the laws of physics demand."
RUserious?
Its a fantasy computer game. It has like....magic...and stuff. lol
Logical failure. Are you now expert on "laws of physics of Tyria"?
oh shut up bro. Engineers have reason to QQ. The class sucks ass. close to Warios in terms of suckyness
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Warrior.
I blame pvp balance and massive mismanagement of personnel for the problems. wasn't this supposed to be a separate behavior system between pvp and pve? That's what i read prior to launch so that this wouldn't be world of warcraft cataclysm hunters all over again only this time costing massively more money to rebuild your toon every single time they scewed something up on the engineer...
That logical fallacy is old, physics are physics if you believe your grenades should fly thru water like they do in the air there's a magical fairy bridge I'll sell you right now
Warriors thee most shitty class in WvW at the moment.
Do you play Warrior?
101 blades only work on brainless NPC. Not real dynamics...
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
OP - "And I've heard the logical fallacy argument before that it's a fantasy game, well that doesn't excuse..."
You musta missed that Tintilnic.
Hate to break it to yeah, but WvW is only 1 aspect of the game. Warriors can run Arah explores solo, that's not balanced, that's OP when you can run 5 man content without 5 men.
You must have missed "Logical failure" in my post.
Oh yes, we should now revisit every fantasy game and check do they abide the "laws of physics"
You do realize what "fantasy" means lol Thats your logical failure.
Again are you expert on "physics of Tyria"?
I Play a warrior and did not touch the 100 blades spec. I am overwhelmed by badges drops and I am not ignored by any of the WvW allies since they see I do not reply on one ability to kill players.
Many warriors think that they sole role is to immobilize and use that one ability, please try to step out of the "trend" box that other player impose on so many classes.
On topic:
My 1st 80 was and engineer and I had fun with it for about 2 weeks aftrer reaching level cap. I occasionally play him, but no more than 2 hours, because something is missing from the class and I personally cannot find a way around it.
So I think you are not alone, since I usually see about 2-3 engineers in a WvW week, and most of the times they are low level and never come back after a day's worth of play; I guess they realize the class is not so fun in WvW (can't speak for PvE as I really do not do PvE in GW2).
V.
WvW is a lot harder to balance than SPvP. So to say that warriors are the worst isn't a fair assumption. Do melee classes, such as warrior and thief, have a harder time? Of course, but they do have ranged weapons too; as do all classes.
As for engineer, i'll be leveling one up soon. It looks really fun to play. The OP seems to be mostly upset about the "steampunk" realism of the class.. or something like that..?
It's been an Adventurer class since the reveal trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGEOIKNRF2Y
Steampunk isn't supposed to be realistic. It's deliberately over the top. That's why engies have rocket jumps, healing turrets, burning kicks and many other silly gadgets.
I'm a chemical engineer.
I know next to nothing of naval engineering, space engineering, nuclear engineering, contruction engineering and so on and so forth.
GW2 engineers know about fighting using their gadgets, turrets, grenades, bonbs, etc.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Yeah, the PvE class balance in GW2 leaves a LOT to be desired. In many cases it feels like WoW 1.0. Which is even more worse. Because you have to ask yourself: with a game like WoW out for many nears now, several problems should be known well by this time. Did the developer team of GW2 ever played any other MMO at all? I mean, many of GW2's problem at not new. Not at all. Yet ANet makes the same mistakes, again:
Min/maxing in GW2 often means going "hybrid". Fully min/max is very very very rarely viable (unless you have somewhat static group and plan out all 5 builds and some of those builds will certanly be "hybrid").
Ranger problems are bad, but i doubt they arent working on a fixing them.
Every class has power builds available. You are certanly not locked into condi build. You can even make different condi build that uses different conditions (chillomancer for instance etc..)
Just because stacking those build works in 1 path in 1 dungeon doesnt make it "super". Funny thing is when those people go out of that 1 path they get instagibbed and face dirt in >5 seconds. When that path is revamped...
10/10
The bit about the motorbikes is whats makes this post great.
It is easy - there are no MOUNTS IN TYRIA LORE - what don't people understand about that? As far as steampunk, only the Charr are that the rest are not.
This is a game? You want laws of physics? Do you know how hard that is to program in?
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
you've obviously never played an engineer. Engineers are locked into using Condi damage no matter what you do, it's the only one that will work for engis as burst damage is a joke. And even with condi damage builds you still must contend with your damage being completely nerfed compared to the damage of other classes. For example, My level 43 trap ranger does way more condi damage and can three shot enemies in a level 40 zone, whereas my full exotic condi engineer specced into every piece that increases condi damage 30/30/0/0/10 does way less damage because it's traits are missing the foundations that an adventurer class needs to do such damage. Even the bleeds on my full exotic zerger thief are about 30 points higher per tick then the bleeds on the same engineer. There's definitely alot wrong going on here, and ignoring the problem and saying it doesn't exist won't help the engineer players one bit.
If they read you're history they will see my point about the syndrome. It's not the game I don't like so much as the poor management that has taken over the patching of this game. It had great potential in the beginning but they let things like Dungeoneer/Raiders demands dictate how they should proceed and they also failed to learn anything from mmo history regarding what works and what doesn't work. It's obvious none of them are gamers or they wouldn't have used things like DR in their game, at least one of them would have remembered how that destroyed many a title in the past. Guess large sums of money really does go to their heads.
Also, if you read far enough back you can see how I too was once ensnared by the Stockholm Syndrome but eventually was freed from it. Now I'm free to determine what really is wrong with a title without those rose tinted glasses.