I think we may be getting mental challenges mixed up with mental pauses. Pausing is fine when it's necessary to take in a situation, but not (as you say) when it means dodging a bat to the face. I'd also like to point out that something that is done with haste and doesn't require much "thought" may actually take a great deal of brainpower:
Chessmasters don't always have to think about their next move, especially the ones they make quickly, but that is only because they have planned the next five to seven moves in advance including their opponent's probable reactions. The reason a chess expert can play so quickly compared to a newbie is that s/he has seen all the probable ways a chessboard can evolve and doesn't have to "think" as much about the next move.
/2c
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Originally posted by NitthWhen a rogue decides to take the tactical advantage and stunlock a caster to death Is that skill?
If the rogue naturally beats the caster than it's a strategic advantage. He prepared that advantage by choosing an advantagious class before battle.
That's kinda a null point because in a class based game everyone chooses their class before the encounter begins, Its no different going in as a caster and nuking a warrior for instance? The Rogue didnt know there was going to be an encounter with a caster until that unfolded.
Tactics are reactive decisions based on the situation you encounter during battle.
I see what your saying here, But most of the time your fate is already sealed by chance of the encounter unbalanced by class/stats/equipment. Thats not to say they battle still cant be won tho.
It would be a null point if the game had only 1v1 encounters in pvp. But what mmo only has 1v1 encounters? I can't recall any mmo where the pvp scene only emphasised 1v1 encounters.
Instead, in team based pvp, the classes that synergies the best tend to become the most dominate. But then again, some times the devs just make mistakes and a class becomes so good at multiple roles that theres not point playing anything else (to fulfill that role).
Players work hard to get certain gear progressions
...and want that to mean they can AFK win in pvp against anyone who didn't put in the hours, only having to think when faced with other grinders of their level. I get it, I just don't care for it.
God forbid anyone should hold an opinion a. you disagree with or b. at all.
We're not discussing opinions. We're discussing a simple and obvious fact: brain cells are required to PVP, and therefore every PVP game involves some level of mental challenge. That level is never zero. (If it was, it wouldn't be a game.)
Fuck me, are you still here?
Thanks!
See, all you needed to do was give up the "games can't be mental challenges" angle and say something random and unrelated, and the discussion could close peacfully. (: It's okay, sometimes we're wrong in life.
I'm a couple weeks late to the discussion but I feel like I should point out something that was overlooked for nine pages: Correlation does not equal causation. Even if you were able to prove that all professional atheletes or all top-of-the-ladder MMO PvPers are rude assholes (and I'm definitely not agreeing that that's true), that would not prove that being an asshole causes improved performance. Other explanations exist. For example, it could be the other way around: some aspect of the profession athlete/e-athlete lifestyle causes a change in personality. Or there could be some aspect of the sport/game that self-selects rude people. I'm not sure just how accurate the movie Moneyball was, but it depicted baseball scouts who based their decision of which players to recruit on many things that had nothing to do with playing baseball well. Such a bias would naturally mean winding up with a league full of professional players who all tend to exhibit certain traits, while other more skilled players without those traits don't get to play professionally.
Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
We can talk about gear, class choice, and game mechanic knowledge, and thats all very relevent. But there are always exceptions to this rule, theres always going to be one guy who plays one of the worst classes, doesnt have an endless reseviour of knowledge to tap into, and doesnt have access to all the highend gear, who will stomp your face over and over again. Its happend to everyone, and its going to happen again and again pretty much regardless of the game.
I can't think of any game where I've ever encountered this. If someone does consistently well despite a handicap or perceived handicap, I take that to mean that they have an exceptional amount of knowledge of the game. What's the rationale behind losing to someone who is playing an underpowered class and saying "pfft, he probably doesn't know as much about the game as I do, I bet he's just a huge jerk!"?
Comments
Chessmasters don't always have to think about their next move, especially the ones they make quickly, but that is only because they have planned the next five to seven moves in advance including their opponent's probable reactions. The reason a chess expert can play so quickly compared to a newbie is that s/he has seen all the probable ways a chessboard can evolve and doesn't have to "think" as much about the next move.
/2c
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
LOL... Damn I suck... that was such a fail comment...
Allow me to rephrase that:
"The gear I earned"
"the gear I worked hard to achieve"
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
It would be a null point if the game had only 1v1 encounters in pvp. But what mmo only has 1v1 encounters? I can't recall any mmo where the pvp scene only emphasised 1v1 encounters.
Instead, in team based pvp, the classes that synergies the best tend to become the most dominate. But then again, some times the devs just make mistakes and a class becomes so good at multiple roles that theres not point playing anything else (to fulfill that role).
I refer you to my earlier response.
Don't sell yourself short!
I'm a couple weeks late to the discussion but I feel like I should point out something that was overlooked for nine pages: Correlation does not equal causation. Even if you were able to prove that all professional atheletes or all top-of-the-ladder MMO PvPers are rude assholes (and I'm definitely not agreeing that that's true), that would not prove that being an asshole causes improved performance. Other explanations exist. For example, it could be the other way around: some aspect of the profession athlete/e-athlete lifestyle causes a change in personality. Or there could be some aspect of the sport/game that self-selects rude people. I'm not sure just how accurate the movie Moneyball was, but it depicted baseball scouts who based their decision of which players to recruit on many things that had nothing to do with playing baseball well. Such a bias would naturally mean winding up with a league full of professional players who all tend to exhibit certain traits, while other more skilled players without those traits don't get to play professionally.
I can't think of any game where I've ever encountered this. If someone does consistently well despite a handicap or perceived handicap, I take that to mean that they have an exceptional amount of knowledge of the game. What's the rationale behind losing to someone who is playing an underpowered class and saying "pfft, he probably doesn't know as much about the game as I do, I bet he's just a huge jerk!"?
1. Knowledge, understanding the game at it's most basic and most advanced.
2. Skill, being able to apply knowledge by making decisions and adapting to situations.
2. Mechanics, being able to apply skill through the use of your keyboard and mouse through physical reflexes.
These three core things quantify PvP skill.