We all have to craft to some degree..right or wrong?

Nanulak

I understand that the plan is to have a crafting class in the game.  And those crafters are the ones who will be making all the armor, weapons etc. in the game.

I also understand that the crafters are the ones who will be building/repairing a lot of the structures in the RVR zones.

I for one will not be a crafter as my primary character played.  But I sure want to help the crafter rebuild the keep wall while the attackers regroup.

So this is my thought on this.  As a non-crafter class it would be nice if I had a secondary skill, say mason, where I can at least help the crafter rebuild the wall.  The quality of the work will be based on the crafters skill and my contribution speed will be based on my skill at masonry.  This way I can do more than just watch or go run and get materials.

Other secondary skills may include, woodworking (gate repair), siege craft (help build/use siege equipment), woodsman (build campfires for troop recovery and gather wild materials for food and drink)

The list could be quite extensive, but the bottom line is, I want to help the crafters as much as possible in-between my killing duties.

Do you all agree or am I missing something?

meddyck

I know Mark has said every class will be able to craft up to a point. For instance you will be able to take crafting high enough on your tank to be able to repair your own armor. It seems like repairing keeps would be another thing that anybody should be able to do. It's only the building new keeps, crafted the highest armors, etc. that would require a dedicated crafter class.

BowbowDAoC

There will be 3 crafter "levels".

(Sorry if dont have the names of each level, but the rest is pretty accurate)

level 1 will be possible for everyone : it will allow i.e. repairing your items ( maybe up to a certain level of the item) and will allow also i.e. for bow users to make their own arrows.

level 2 and 3 will only be possible for crafter-only characters.

Arbroath

As per the Camelotunchained.com foundational pricipals;

 

 

The crafting system is broken down into three specific tracks, journeyman, master, and artisan (placeholder name). Non-crafter classes are limited to the journeyman track while players who choose to play crafters can pursue the master track and then, if they so choose, the artisan track. Each track has its own set of skills and abilities along with leveling curves appropriate to characters that are not full-time crafters or those who choose to play a full-time crafter.

Of the three tracks, the journeyman track is the least time-consuming and centers around the repairing and creation of a limited number of mundane items. As our goal here is to not use item decay as a true money sink (through the continued and costly repairing of items), but rather use it to ensure ongoing demand for new items, non-crafters will be able to repair low-level items and most crafters will not have to level through the repairing of items. While there is some cost involved in repairing of items, it will be quite small and we expect that most players will simply repair their own items as they level up their crafting skills. This track will also allow players to create non-magical arrows, sharpen their blades, and create some parts of structures and roads as well as to partake in a number of other crafting-related activities.

 

 

I think this is a great idea as it allows everyone to craft to a certain level. But it also lets us crafters really make a mark for themselves at higher levels.

Nanulak

Thanks for the info.  Answers my question completly.

Sornin

While you do not have to craft in the proposed system, I believe most will, simply because they can and there is a benefit to doing so. As mentioned, you will only be able to play around in the first rank (journeyman) as a combat character.

What interests me are the dedicated crafters. I am interested not only because the idea of a truly player-oriented economy centred around crafting is great, but also because the implementation is going to be strange.

Why strange? Well, in Camelot Unchained you can either fight (and barely craft) or you can craft. One character cannot do both. What this is going to do is "force" players to make at least one alt if they want to RvR and craft on the side, or vice-versa. While I see the purpose from a realism/lore perspective, from a gameplay perspective it may be clunky.

See, I completely agree that a character who is a master swordsman and devotes all his time to training and fighting a war would not also realistically be a master blacksmith. So, from that realism/lore perspective, yes, separating a combat character from a crafting character makes total sense.

However, from a gameplay perspective, does this really achieve anything? I mean, if it is a matter of logging in a different character, why not just be able to do it all on one? Have the combat levels and crafting levels be completely separate, as though it were two different characters. This would appear to achieve the same thing without the alt.

Of course, I do not know all of the intricate plans for the crafting system, so it may be a lot more complicated and may make more sense down the road. I can't wait!

Ziftylrhavic

The crafters will need to go out into RvR to get their materials and certain tools to craft (thinking for example about a high quality forge being found only where the heat from the volcano can be used to get higher temperatures).

 

That modify the gameplay as those crafters will need peoples to protect them. You will need to protect the ones that will be building, upgrading and repairing keeps as well as siege weapons too.

 

Think of it as not having a healer that can DPS too, it's quite the same thing, you can't fight alone, you need to cooperate.

Sornin

Originally posted by Ziftylrhavic

The crafters will need to go out into RvR to get their materials and certain tools to craft (thinking for example about a high quality forge being found only where the heat from the volcano can be used to get higher temperatures).

 

That modify the gameplay as those crafters will need peoples to protect them. You will need to protect the ones that will be building, upgrading and repairing keeps as well as siege weapons too.

 

Think of it as not having a healer that can DPS too, it's quite the same thing, you can't fight alone, you need to cooperate.

Good point! That does add an extra dimension. It is sort of like an escort quest, except actually fun because the threats are real and the rewards are real. Thanks for pointing this out.

Nanulak

And don’t forget.  Many people would rather have multiple accounts than using a alt.  Good for the overall game stability.

MarkJacobs

It's going to be very interesting to see how things work out in RL rather than just in theory. It's going to be fun...

Daizedd

Originally posted by MarkJacobs
It's going to be very interesting to see how things work out in RL rather than just in theory. It's going to be fun...

Here is my prediction, and I am also thinking probably your intentions: There will be fewer high level crafters (as compared to WoW for example where everyone is a crafter) who will enjoy a certain noteriety and who will be in real demand and therefore feel they are making a valuable contribution to the game. IMHO That is exactly what is needed for crafters, and it may make CU the place to be for people who really like crafting. Yes, some people will feel the need to have a crafter alt or vice versa, but that will be limited to a relatively few number of harder-core players and overall won't change the larger scheme of things.

Stonemason

If the combat characters can do basic crafting doesn't stand to reason that the crafter characters can do basic combat? Let say they can, then a group of them could go out into the realm and farm a resource node of some kind together. This way they could provide some basic protection for themselves. An 8 man crafting force should be able to defend themselves from a smaller group of 4 or less. Maybe a tough fight agianst 3-4 combat types but a win against less perhaps. This would allow for bigger 2,3 or 4 full groups of crafter types roaming for resource nodes. A nice juicey target for a combat 8 man At the very least it would open up some new combat. Crafter groups of opposing realms  face off agianst each other at a resource location, they exchange blows while each side calls for help from local combat groups, and total war breaks out!

RealLifeGobbo

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Originally posted by Stonemason
If the combat characters can do basic crafting doesn't stand to reason that the crafter characters can do basic combat? Let say they can, then a group of them could go out into the realm and farm a resource node of some kind together. This way they could provide some basic protection for themselves. An 8 man crafting force should be able to defend themselves from a smaller group of 4 or less. Maybe a tough fight agianst 3-4 combat types but a win against less perhaps. This would allow for bigger 2,3 or 4 full groups of crafter types roaming for resource nodes. A nice juicey target for a combat 8 man At the very least it would open up some new combat. Crafter groups of opposing realms  face off agianst each other at a resource location, they exchange blows while each side calls for help from local combat groups, and total war breaks out!

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Oh I know, it sounds awesome! I would imagine that the resources in your realm, are used for basic items, but the enemy realms have the resources for the good stuff. In any case, it sounds like a blast!

Unknown

Sounds decent on paper Stonemason but I can already hear the QQ.

Not to mention its getting a little close to zerg4tw to get things done.  Something I really hope this game avoids in favor of tactics/strategy and organization.

From my MMO experience even the best sounding ideas need to be tested against peoples natural ability to make content easy and form massive balls of people to complete them.

Arbroath

I worry about the ability to have many character slots. This is because after a while everyone will have a crafting character and the class will become saturated. If you can have a slot for every class in the game, why would you not have a crafter to make everything for your combat characters? I'd like to see the number of slots limited to avoid this. 

RealLifeGobbo

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Originally posted by Arbroath
I worry about the ability to have many character slots. This is because after a while everyone will have a crafting character and the class will become saturated. If you can have a slot for every class in the game, why would you not have a crafter to make everything for your combat characters? I'd like to see the number of slots limited to avoid this. 

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There was a thread on this: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/380076/Poll-How-many-character-slots-per-server-.html

MJ had this to say:

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This is one of those issues that I feel really strongly about. As a subscription-based game I promise that no matter how many classes we add to the game that every account will have enough slots for one of every class per server.

I love alts too, a lot.

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sweetdigs

So long as I can work with a small group of buddies and do the following, I will be very happy:  Explore deep into the wilderness, but near an enemy realm's borders.  Start harvesting or do whatever other crafting stuff I can do around there, looking all innocent and vulnerable.  Nearby, my group of friends hides concealed, whether able to hide in a valley, behind a tree/rock, or using stealth/invis.   When the enemies see me harvesting solo and take the bait, it should be possible for my group to spring an ambush and take down the attacker(s) before they can escape.

sweetdigs

Originally posted by Arbroath
I worry about the ability to have many character slots. This is because after a while everyone will have a crafting character and the class will become saturated. If you can have a slot for every class in the game, why would you not have a crafter to make everything for your combat characters? I'd like to see the number of slots limited to avoid this. 

I raised this concern with Mark as well, and he noted that with the levelling curves he plans to have in this game both for combat types and crafters, it really won't be a near-term issue.  I'm sure in the long run it will allow for folks to do this, but frankly, if you really wanted to accomplish that you could just multi-account anyway.

morfidon

Originally posted by sweetdigs

Originally posted by Arbroath
I worry about the ability to have many character slots. This is because after a while everyone will have a crafting character and the class will become saturated. If you can have a slot for every class in the game, why would you not have a crafter to make everything for your combat characters? I'd like to see the number of slots limited to avoid this. 

I raised this concern with Mark as well, and he noted that with the levelling curves he plans to have in this game both for combat types and crafters, it really won't be a near-term issue.  I'm sure in the long run it will allow for folks to do this, but frankly, if you really wanted to accomplish that you could just multi-account anyway.

True 2 accounts and there wouldn't be problem. But it would be problem for ppl who cannot have 2 accounts. 

I think it's good idea ppl can have as many slots as characters to make.

I also think that crafters should be able to fight or at least build some kind of siege things that would help them defend. That wouldn't be good vs normal fighters but 4 crafters should win with for example 1 typical fighter.

gylnne

Originally posted by Arbroath

I think this is a great idea as it allows everyone to craft to a certain level. But it also lets us crafters really make a mark for themselves at higher levels.

This I really like. Not only can a toon make a name for himself in rvr you could have another one who makes a name for himself in the crafting world.:)