I think $ 2million as a cap for a first raise is ok because it is somewhat small and hey, its risk takers.
But I strongly discourage anyone from supporting this kickstarter beyond $2 million. this type of cinancing model continues the precedent for the creation of a stream mmorpgs which are of exceptionally poor quality because
1) There is no accountability. This means that there is no incentive to even create a game that people want. As far as MJ is concerned he could create another crap mmo and he would still walk away with a heap of dough.
2) There is no written precommitted plan of any sort. This means the game develops according to the fancies of each passing day.
In the car salesmen and derivatives financing bnking industries, this type of structure is called a naked call option. People like MJ and the banks walk away with all the upside. This structure caused the mortgage crisis. So -- yea, im opposed to it because i feel it sets a bad precedent for making good games for the industry.
sorry i think another thread discussed this angle. anyway look - to give it a balanced viewpoint, Mark Jacobs is probably a really good and cpable guy. But things can go wrong, things outside his control. This structure doesnt help Mark cope with the rough patches. I say, if we are going to pass him money, pass it to him in a structure which helps rather than cripples him.
I think $ 2million as a cap for a first raise is ok because it is somewhat small and hey, its risk takers.
But I strongly discourage anyone from supporting this kickstarter beyond $2 million. this type of cinancing model continues the precedent for the creation of a stream mmorpgs which are of exceptionally poor quality because
1) There is no accountability. This means that there is no incentive to even create a game that people want. As far as MJ is concerned he could create another crap mmo and he would still walk away with a heap of dough.
2) There is no written precommitted plan of any sort. This means the game develops according to the fancies of each passing day.
In the car salesmen and derivatives financing bnking industries, this type of structure is called a naked call option. People like MJ and the banks walk away with all the upside. This structure caused the mortgage crisis. So -- yea, im opposed to it because i feel it sets a bad precedent for making good games for the industry.
sorry i think another thread discussed this angle. anyway look - to give it a balanced viewpoint, Mark Jacobs is probably a really good and cpable guy. But things can go wrong, things outside his control. This structure doesnt help Mark cope with the rough patches. I say, if we are going to pass him money, pass it to him in a structure which helps rather than cripples him.
Points taken...but I can't see it any worse than if it was funded by SOE or EA...
Sorry but its only by taking risks through Kickstarter that many gamers will get the games they want to play. Corporate developers would never fund a game like CU. Hell all I read about is how corporations are convinced smartphone gaming is the future.
Backed 100% backed. No regrets if it falls flat on its face.
I think $ 2million as a cap for a first raise is ok because it is somewhat small and hey, its risk takers.
But I strongly discourage anyone from supporting this kickstarter beyond $2 million. this type of cinancing model continues the precedent for the creation of a stream mmorpgs which are of exceptionally poor quality because
1) There is no accountability. This means that there is no incentive to even create a game that people want. As far as MJ is concerned he could create another crap mmo and he would still walk away with a heap of dough.
2) There is no written precommitted plan of any sort. This means the game develops according to the fancies of each passing day.
In the car salesmen and derivatives financing bnking industries, this type of structure is called a naked call option. People like MJ and the banks walk away with all the upside. This structure caused the mortgage crisis. So -- yea, im opposed to it because i feel it sets a bad precedent for making good games for the industry.
sorry i think another thread discussed this angle. anyway look - to give it a balanced viewpoint, Mark Jacobs is probably a really good and cpable guy. But things can go wrong, things outside his control. This structure doesnt help Mark cope with the rough patches. I say, if we are going to pass him money, pass it to him in a structure which helps rather than cripples him.
Mark cannot walk away from this without losing money and his career. He is going to personally invest $2M of this own money on top of what we and investors invest, and will not be paid until the game starts paying out. Also, if he just "walk[s] away," his career is over. He is risking more than anyone.
$2M is small, but if it funds I suspect the $5M guaranteed between Kickstarter, Mark, and the existing investor(s) will grow quickly via more private investments. I would honestly not be surprised at all if CSE gets up to another $5M based on the success of this campaign. It would be a relatively attractive investment as without a publisher cutting into profits, the investor would get a decent chunk.
"1) There is no accountability. This means that there is no incentive to even create a game that people want. As far as MJ is concerned he could create another crap mmo and he would still walk away with a heap of dough."
Considering Mark promises to put his own $2 millions in if the kickstarter funds, I fail to see how he'll get to walk away with a pile of cash if the game is crap.
A kickstarter campaign also helps a lot in getting funding from other sources. Not just because CSE will have some cash and be able to develop the game beyond a concept, but because it's much better to be able to tell prospective investors that there are these many people interested in the game (enough so to pay for it 2+ years before release) instead of having to debate whether or not a game like this would be popular enough.
Anyway, in the end it comes down to this - no one has made a daoc type mmo, where rvr is central (I suppose planetside and gw1 and 2 are the closest we've got, but both games have significant differences and funny enough daoc seems to have a better rvr system) So, this is our chance as gamers to get the game we want.
I believe people on UTC+00:00, also known as the bulk of Western Europe, are now waking from their slumber. I hope many of them who did not pledge yesterday pledge today! Make us proud, Europe!
Edit: France, if you show up big I promise to never make another joke at your expense again, nor your lost kin in Quebec. :P
Its really great to help support what we all hope will be a great game. My wife and I played DAoC for seven year and still log in and sub every now and again - we really loved that game.
I think $ 2million as a cap for a first raise is ok because it is somewhat small and hey, its risk takers.
But I strongly discourage anyone from supporting this kickstarter beyond $2 million. this type of cinancing model continues the precedent for the creation of a stream mmorpgs which are of exceptionally poor quality because
1) There is no accountability. This means that there is no incentive to even create a game that people want. As far as MJ is concerned he could create another crap mmo and he would still walk away with a heap of dough.
2) There is no written precommitted plan of any sort. This means the game develops according to the fancies of each passing day.
In the car salesmen and derivatives financing bnking industries, this type of structure is called a naked call option. People like MJ and the banks walk away with all the upside. This structure caused the mortgage crisis. So -- yea, im opposed to it because i feel it sets a bad precedent for making good games for the industry.
sorry i think another thread discussed this angle. anyway look - to give it a balanced viewpoint, Mark Jacobs is probably a really good and cpable guy. But things can go wrong, things outside his control. This structure doesnt help Mark cope with the rough patches. I say, if we are going to pass him money, pass it to him in a structure which helps rather than cripples him.
So you say that you can't invest 25$ on something so unpredictable? Geeesh. There is a chance to have a good MMO. You will get for it 1 month sub and game which in preordering costs like 50% less. In shop it would cost about 60$.
What's more Mark is investing his own money, own career. Your 'precious' money 25$ is just nothing. But 25$ of many ppl would be enought to have a chance to create something potentially really good. At least better than the things that are coming out right now.
Anyway, in the end it comes down to this - no one has made a daoc type mmo, where rvr is central (I suppose planetside and gw1 and 2 are the closest we've got, but both games have significant differences and funny enough daoc seems to have a better rvr system) So, this is our chance as gamers to get the game we want.
Actually more than one daoc type mmo has already been made and they already have steady userbases
1) Champions of Regnum is DAOC without the crafting and social components.
2) DAOC Dawn of Light is a mod run on Uthgardt server and this is idential to DAOC
3) Aika Online is DAOC run in a higher gfx environment
All 3 of them are capable successors to DAOC. Camelot Unchained might be MJ's vision of what a successor to DAOC would be like, but 1), 2) and 3) above already all provide competent RvR PvP capabilities. 1) 2) and 3) call themselves F2P.
So you say that you can't invest 25$ on something so unpredictable? Geeesh. There is a chance to have a good MMO. You will get for it 1 month sub and game which in preordering costs like 50% less. In shop it would cost about 60$.
What's more Mark is investing his own money, own career. Your 'precious' money 25$ is just nothing. But 25$ of many ppl would be enought to have a chance to create something potentially really good. At least better than the things that are coming out right now.
Well i think $25 lots up to $2 million is ok. The risk is really spread wide so it should be ok? And you never know, you might be getting a lifetime membership in a lgame which suddenly becomes so popular they can charge subscription fees like LOTRO did.
Personally, I'm not so charitable to pay $25 and help another person succeed. Why should I? I would prefer to see my own self succeed. If you look at the legal, medical and business professions, they are all supremely competitive. All of them regard investros who give them money as silly asshats because they know they are the ones getting a massive boost. I do not want to be a silly asshat.
Many mmo players are very rich and charitable, good for them but they are like investors in ooil and gas industries. Just punters in an industry where a fool is born every minute.
For $25, I would be inclined to go play another existing and successful F2P DAOC clone instead of helping someone else make megabucks.
Anyone who is pledging has to know they are buying into a dream. Everything doesn't go as planned and it could very well happen here. If people are pledging expecting a promise guarantee then i'm sure many will be sorely disappointed.
Me personally and i'll be flamed for it but all of the kickstarter tier options make it feel fishy to me and the kicker is that you have to spend over $1000 to even get close to a lifetime like sub.
I like to support games but I need a little more than promises and potential swag. I need a game of some sort, right now its just an idea.
I was typing this up in response to someone when a thread was locked. Figured i'd post anyways.
yes thats waht kickstarter is for to make that idea into a game..
Games on kinckstarter probally have a better chance at being what the devs want it to be as they dont have a publisher pushing at them to get the game released and pushnig them to make it the next wow clone..
Of course your taknig a risk by backnig anything on kickstarter, but you dont have to back it..
As adults, we understand that sub-based games are from the stone age.
As adults, we understand that B2P and F2P are sub par products that can't hold a player base. Those type of MMOs are made for the tourist MMO player that moves from one MMO to another. Played tons of these supposed B2P and F2P games and most were pretty bad including the so called "savior" GW2 (in which I lasted 10 hours). They are out to make a quick buck and cash in.
iam sceptic.. class system will be unbalanced if every faction have another.. this is bad in WAR was bad to.. and pvp only game with subs.. i dont know i smell fail..maybe not epic but.. iam not happy with that but there is not another rvr alternative.. maybe eso?
Well i think $25 lots up to $2 million is ok. The risk is really spread wide so it should be ok? And you never know, you might be getting a lifetime membership in a lgame which suddenly becomes so popular they can charge subscription fees like LOTRO did.
Personally, I'm not so charitable to pay $25 and help another person succeed. Why should I? I would prefer to see my own self succeed. If you look at the legal, medical and business professions, they are all supremely competitive. All of them regard investros who give them money as silly asshats because they know they are the ones getting a massive boost. I do not want to be a silly asshat.
Many mmo players are very rich and charitable, good for them but they are like investors in ooil and gas industries. Just punters in an industry where a fool is born every minute.
For $25, I would be inclined to go play another existing and successful F2P DAOC clone instead of helping someone else make megabucks.
Just think of it like pre-ordering the game then as thats what you get for $25..
so for $25 you would play a f2p DAOC clone? im ont sure of any myself but there is not such thing as f2p.. you have to pay at some point.. probally a cash shop and people tend to spend more in cash shops than they would on a monthly sub.. but there we go..
This may be like Star Citizen though...I started small and eventually dropped $180 on that.
This didn't start small though at least compared to other video games. Star Citizen for example started with less than $250k in the first 48 hours granted they had backing outside of KS.
I took my EVE account that I had not logged into for 6 months. Sold the isk and account on playerauctions a few weeks ago in preperations for this, and threw 1000 into this kickstarter and still had enough to buy my wife something nice and she has no idea what I did
Nothing lost, but huge possiblities of something to gain. I may just go down the list of games I havent played in forever and just sell off all my accounts to make more money for this game, thats how much I hope this works out. If it doesnt....oh well.
I took my EVE account that I had not logged into for 6 months. Sold the isk and account on playerauctions a few weeks ago in preperations for this, and threw 1000 into this kickstarter and still had enough to buy my wife something nice and she has no idea what I did
Nothing lost, but huge possiblities of something to gain. I may just go down the list of games I havent played in forever and just sell off all my accounts to make more money for this game, thats how much I hope this works out. If it doesnt....oh well.
Ha, great idea. I wish I had valuables like that I could sell off.
Anyway, time for sleep. I hope it is past $600,000 when I wake up!
Anyway, in the end it comes down to this - no one has made a daoc type mmo, where rvr is central (I suppose planetside and gw1 and 2 are the closest we've got, but both games have significant differences and funny enough daoc seems to have a better rvr system) So, this is our chance as gamers to get the game we want.
Actually more than one daoc type mmo has already been made and they already have steady userbases
1) Champions of Regnum is DAOC without the crafting and social components.
2) DAOC Dawn of Light is a mod run on Uthgardt server and this is idential to DAOC
3) Aika Online is DAOC run in a higher gfx environment
All 3 of them are capable successors to DAOC. Camelot Unchained might be MJ's vision of what a successor to DAOC would be like, but 1), 2) and 3) above already all provide competent RvR PvP capabilities. 1) 2) and 3) call themselves F2P.
1) You've gotta be kidding me. I watched gameplay and you say that shooting arrow while moving / jumping and moving and being attacked is succesor to daoc. DAOC WAS GOOD BECAUSE OF COMBAT MECHANIC.
I took my EVE account that I had not logged into for 6 months. Sold the isk and account on playerauctions a few weeks ago in preperations for this, and threw 1000 into this kickstarter and still had enough to buy my wife something nice and she has no idea what I did
Nothing lost, but huge possiblities of something to gain. I may just go down the list of games I havent played in forever and just sell off all my accounts to make more money for this game, thats how much I hope this works out. If it doesnt....oh well.
Ha, great idea. I wish I had valuables like that I could sell off.
Anyway, time for sleep. I hope it is past $600,000 when I wake up!
Even if you have barebone maxed out level chars in semi popular games, you can get 50-150 per account generally. If you have 6-7 accounts, it adds up fast
Originally posted by kosac iam sceptic.. class system will be unbalanced if every faction have another.. this is bad in WAR was bad to.. and pvp only game with subs.. i dont know i smell fail..maybe not epic but.. iam not happy with that but there is not another rvr alternative.. maybe eso?
The NON-mirrored classes is one of the concepts, that made DAoC a success. If you never played it and only experienced this "everyone can everything everywhere and everywhen", thats ok, but this approach here is anything but "bad".
Same goes for the subscription model. Yes, many games today use F2P or B2P, but a lot of those players are tourist gamers hopping from game to game. A game like Camelot Unchained has to attract people and keep them active so the social aspects of the game really can shine.
Originally posted by kosac iam sceptic.. class system will be unbalanced if every faction have another.. this is bad in WAR was bad to.. and pvp only game with subs.. i dont know i smell fail..maybe not epic but.. iam not happy with that but there is not another rvr alternative.. maybe eso?
Didn't WAR have mirrored classes? I didn't play long and on only one side, so i don't remember, but i read they used a mirrored approach.
Anyway, if you want to prove something with examples you've got a long way to go. Examples can prove something only in a handful situations.
If you disagree with the previous statement, then i'll use DAoC as an example to prove than having different classes and a sub is the best and only way to make a PvP MMO.
With that said, you should be able to realize than reducing the success or failure of the game to 2 or 3 points is stupid, and than a lot of other things will make it great. Go take a look at their Foundational Principles on their site.
Actually more than one daoc type mmo has already been made and they already have steady userbases
1) Champions of Regnum is DAOC without the crafting and social components.
2) DAOC Dawn of Light is a mod run on Uthgardt server and this is idential to DAOC
3) Aika Online is DAOC run in a higher gfx environment
All 3 of them are capable successors to DAOC. Camelot Unchained might be MJ's vision of what a successor to DAOC would be like, but 1), 2) and 3) above already all provide competent RvR PvP capabilities. 1) 2) and 3) call themselves F2P.
LOL yeah there is a rason 1 and 3 are f2p.. they are a pile of utter garbage...
2 is of course f2p as its a hacked version of the DAOC code i would guess.. or reverse engineered either way its just DAOC.
Originally posted by Ziftylrhavic Originally posted by kosaciam sceptic.. class system will be unbalanced if every faction have another.. this is bad in WAR was bad to.. and pvp only game with subs.. i dont know i smell fail..maybe not epic but.. iam not happy with that but there is not another rvr alternative.. maybe eso?
Didn't WAR have mirrored classes? I didn't play long and on only one side, so i don't remember, but i read they used a mirrored approach.
Anyway, if you want to prove something with examples you've got a long way to go. Examples can prove something only in a handful situations.
If you disagree with the previous statement, then i'll use DAoC as an example to prove than having different classes and a sub is the best and only way to make a PvP MMO.
With that said, you should be able to realize than reducing the succes or failure of the game to 2 or 3 points is stupid, and than a lot of other things will make it great. Go take a look at their Foundational Principles on their site.
they were kinda mirrored by not totally or mirrored poorly given the effect they weren't mirrored...
Actually more than one daoc type mmo has already been made and they already have steady userbases
1) Champions of Regnum is DAOC without the crafting and social components.
2) DAOC Dawn of Light is a mod run on Uthgardt server and this is idential to DAOC
3) Aika Online is DAOC run in a higher gfx environment
All 3 of them are capable successors to DAOC. Camelot Unchained might be MJ's vision of what a successor to DAOC would be like, but 1), 2) and 3) above already all provide competent RvR PvP capabilities. 1) 2) and 3) call themselves F2P.
LOL yeah there is a rason 1 and 3 are f2p.. they are a pile of utter garbage...
2 is of course f2p as its a hacked version of the DAOC code i would guess.. or reverse engineered either way its just DAOC.
I personally didn't like 1 or 3.
Never played DoL(2) so i can't comment.
I can comment to say that I am playing DAOC right now, and have a great time. 1 month back in and luving every minute of it.
Leveling new toons through Bg's is half Pve, and half PvP, But it's still a great system. No gear hunting, no buff begging,
no second account needed unless u want exotic buffs, lots of players in EURO, and US prime times.
Comments
I think $ 2million as a cap for a first raise is ok because it is somewhat small and hey, its risk takers.
But I strongly discourage anyone from supporting this kickstarter beyond $2 million. this type of cinancing model continues the precedent for the creation of a stream mmorpgs which are of exceptionally poor quality because
1) There is no accountability. This means that there is no incentive to even create a game that people want. As far as MJ is concerned he could create another crap mmo and he would still walk away with a heap of dough.
2) There is no written precommitted plan of any sort. This means the game develops according to the fancies of each passing day.
In the car salesmen and derivatives financing bnking industries, this type of structure is called a naked call option. People like MJ and the banks walk away with all the upside. This structure caused the mortgage crisis. So -- yea, im opposed to it because i feel it sets a bad precedent for making good games for the industry.
sorry i think another thread discussed this angle. anyway look - to give it a balanced viewpoint, Mark Jacobs is probably a really good and cpable guy. But things can go wrong, things outside his control. This structure doesnt help Mark cope with the rough patches. I say, if we are going to pass him money, pass it to him in a structure which helps rather than cripples him.
Sorry but its only by taking risks through Kickstarter that many gamers will get the games they want to play. Corporate developers would never fund a game like CU. Hell all I read about is how corporations are convinced smartphone gaming is the future.
Backed 100% backed. No regrets if it falls flat on its face.
Mark cannot walk away from this without losing money and his career. He is going to personally invest $2M of this own money on top of what we and investors invest, and will not be paid until the game starts paying out. Also, if he just "walk[s] away," his career is over. He is risking more than anyone.
$2M is small, but if it funds I suspect the $5M guaranteed between Kickstarter, Mark, and the existing investor(s) will grow quickly via more private investments. I would honestly not be surprised at all if CSE gets up to another $5M based on the success of this campaign. It would be a relatively attractive investment as without a publisher cutting into profits, the investor would get a decent chunk.
"1) There is no accountability. This means that there is no incentive to even create a game that people want. As far as MJ is concerned he could create another crap mmo and he would still walk away with a heap of dough."
Considering Mark promises to put his own $2 millions in if the kickstarter funds, I fail to see how he'll get to walk away with a pile of cash if the game is crap.
A kickstarter campaign also helps a lot in getting funding from other sources. Not just because CSE will have some cash and be able to develop the game beyond a concept, but because it's much better to be able to tell prospective investors that there are these many people interested in the game (enough so to pay for it 2+ years before release) instead of having to debate whether or not a game like this would be popular enough.
Anyway, in the end it comes down to this - no one has made a daoc type mmo, where rvr is central (I suppose planetside and gw1 and 2 are the closest we've got, but both games have significant differences and funny enough daoc seems to have a better rvr system) So, this is our chance as gamers to get the game we want.
Pledged for $25. The total is 565k at the moment.
This may be like Star Citizen though...I started small and eventually dropped $180 on that.
I believe people on UTC+00:00, also known as the bulk of Western Europe, are now waking from their slumber. I hope many of them who did not pledge yesterday pledge today! Make us proud, Europe!
Edit: France, if you show up big I promise to never make another joke at your expense again, nor your lost kin in Quebec. :P
Its really great to help support what we all hope will be a great game. My wife and I played DAoC for seven year and still log in and sub every now and again - we really loved that game.
Lets hope that they hit the target quickly
London England btw
So you say that you can't invest 25$ on something so unpredictable? Geeesh. There is a chance to have a good MMO. You will get for it 1 month sub and game which in preordering costs like 50% less. In shop it would cost about 60$.
What's more Mark is investing his own money, own career. Your 'precious' money 25$ is just nothing. But 25$ of many ppl would be enought to have a chance to create something potentially really good. At least better than the things that are coming out right now.
Actually more than one daoc type mmo has already been made and they already have steady userbases
1) Champions of Regnum is DAOC without the crafting and social components.
2) DAOC Dawn of Light is a mod run on Uthgardt server and this is idential to DAOC
3) Aika Online is DAOC run in a higher gfx environment
All 3 of them are capable successors to DAOC. Camelot Unchained might be MJ's vision of what a successor to DAOC would be like, but 1), 2) and 3) above already all provide competent RvR PvP capabilities. 1) 2) and 3) call themselves F2P.
Well i think $25 lots up to $2 million is ok. The risk is really spread wide so it should be ok? And you never know, you might be getting a lifetime membership in a lgame which suddenly becomes so popular they can charge subscription fees like LOTRO did.
Personally, I'm not so charitable to pay $25 and help another person succeed. Why should I? I would prefer to see my own self succeed. If you look at the legal, medical and business professions, they are all supremely competitive. All of them regard investros who give them money as silly asshats because they know they are the ones getting a massive boost. I do not want to be a silly asshat.
Many mmo players are very rich and charitable, good for them but they are like investors in ooil and gas industries. Just punters in an industry where a fool is born every minute.
For $25, I would be inclined to go play another existing and successful F2P DAOC clone instead of helping someone else make megabucks.
yes thats waht kickstarter is for to make that idea into a game..
Games on kinckstarter probally have a better chance at being what the devs want it to be as they dont have a publisher pushing at them to get the game released and pushnig them to make it the next wow clone..
Of course your taknig a risk by backnig anything on kickstarter, but you dont have to back it..
Anyway its good to see its doing well already..
As adults, we understand that B2P and F2P are sub par products that can't hold a player base. Those type of MMOs are made for the tourist MMO player that moves from one MMO to another. Played tons of these supposed B2P and F2P games and most were pretty bad including the so called "savior" GW2 (in which I lasted 10 hours). They are out to make a quick buck and cash in.
Just think of it like pre-ordering the game then as thats what you get for $25..
so for $25 you would play a f2p DAOC clone? im ont sure of any myself but there is not such thing as f2p.. you have to pay at some point.. probally a cash shop and people tend to spend more in cash shops than they would on a monthly sub.. but there we go..
This didn't start small though at least compared to other video games. Star Citizen for example started with less than $250k in the first 48 hours granted they had backing outside of KS.
I took my EVE account that I had not logged into for 6 months. Sold the isk and account on playerauctions a few weeks ago in preperations for this, and threw 1000 into this kickstarter and still had enough to buy my wife something nice and she has no idea what I did
Nothing lost, but huge possiblities of something to gain. I may just go down the list of games I havent played in forever and just sell off all my accounts to make more money for this game, thats how much I hope this works out. If it doesnt....oh well.
Ha, great idea. I wish I had valuables like that I could sell off.
Anyway, time for sleep. I hope it is past $600,000 when I wake up!
1) You've gotta be kidding me. I watched gameplay and you say that shooting arrow while moving / jumping and moving and being attacked is succesor to daoc. DAOC WAS GOOD BECAUSE OF COMBAT MECHANIC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-5iUhsRZRY
this is even worse than WoW and WAR.
Even if you have barebone maxed out level chars in semi popular games, you can get 50-150 per account generally. If you have 6-7 accounts, it adds up fast
The NON-mirrored classes is one of the concepts, that made DAoC a success. If you never played it and only experienced this "everyone can everything everywhere and everywhen", thats ok, but this approach here is anything but "bad".
Same goes for the subscription model. Yes, many games today use F2P or B2P, but a lot of those players are tourist gamers hopping from game to game. A game like Camelot Unchained has to attract people and keep them active so the social aspects of the game really can shine.
Using anything but subs would be plain stupid.
Camelot Unchained Fanpage
https://simply-gaming.com/camelot/
Didn't WAR have mirrored classes? I didn't play long and on only one side, so i don't remember, but i read they used a mirrored approach.
Anyway, if you want to prove something with examples you've got a long way to go. Examples can prove something only in a handful situations.
If you disagree with the previous statement, then i'll use DAoC as an example to prove than having different classes and a sub is the best and only way to make a PvP MMO.
With that said, you should be able to realize than reducing the success or failure of the game to 2 or 3 points is stupid, and than a lot of other things will make it great. Go take a look at their Foundational Principles on their site.
LOL yeah there is a rason 1 and 3 are f2p.. they are a pile of utter garbage...
2 is of course f2p as its a hacked version of the DAOC code i would guess.. or reverse engineered either way its just DAOC.
Anyway, if you want to prove something with examples you've got a long way to go. Examples can prove something only in a handful situations.
If you disagree with the previous statement, then i'll use DAoC as an example to prove than having different classes and a sub is the best and only way to make a PvP MMO.
With that said, you should be able to realize than reducing the succes or failure of the game to 2 or 3 points is stupid, and than a lot of other things will make it great. Go take a look at their Foundational Principles on their site.
they were kinda mirrored by not totally or mirrored poorly given the effect they weren't mirrored...
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
I personally didn't like 1 or 3.
Never played DoL(2) so i can't comment.
I can comment to say that I am playing DAOC right now, and have a great time. 1 month back in and luving every minute of it.
Leveling new toons through Bg's is half Pve, and half PvP, But it's still a great system. No gear hunting, no buff begging,
no second account needed unless u want exotic buffs, lots of players in EURO, and US prime times.