Once again, this constant attack on ANet is pretty puzzling.
ANet accepted that their tutorial 'can vastly improve' and that they are working on it because the GW2 playerbase is having issues understanding how the game works.
What more does the 'pro-gw2' want?
"Attack on ANet" ahahahahahahahahahah you are nuts.
Thres no "tutorial" for me either, and i applaud ANet for not shoving everything down your throat. It kinda filter to those who want to think for a bit for themselves and those who put blunt statements that are pure nonsense due to their laziness/conditioning form certain previous games.
For once i DONT want "tutorial" in GW2. Keeps slackers away.
Prepare to be disappointed then as Anet are on-record in saying that there's a 'vastly improved' tutorial coming soon.
So contradicting what ANet is saying isn't 'attacking ANet'? LOLWUT?
Not sure if attacking ANet will work for the 'pro-gw2' side though.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Originally posted by elocke I was generalizing about what the Guardian can do on any build, not what he's geared for, or what weapon setup he has which I know makes it lean more toward one way of playing, dps, heal or tank, but we all know true tanking and heals aren't really in this game. No one can come in and roll a character up and play a pure healer just to heal others, can they? Many people miss this factor. Sorry to get everyone's panties in a bunch, the game has 2 glaring issues to me and this is one of them. The other one they are sloooooowly fixing, namely progression systems for your character.
Oh, there's no panty bunch. It's actually quite amusing seeing you prove, post after post, that you know very little about how to optimize your character for a role in GW2. There are GW2 detractors who make way more sense than you do.
Fact is, if you want e.g. play a support guardian, you better gear up with +healing gear, get the right traits and slot the right skills, or you will just be a dead weight in your party trying to play healer/support with a DPS geared character. A "jack of all trades" character with a mix of different gear trying to do everything will end only being mediocre to bad at everything, just like in any other MMORPG.
Hey now. Let's not go there. I play a balanced mesmer with a mix of gear and run (normally) a greatsword with sword/focus offhand. I use that build for WvW, PvE, you name it, and I don't consider myself mediocre at any of it. But then again, I also know what all my skills do, what secondary skills appear after cast, etc. and don't try to be a pure dps, support or control type. I like to think that yes, I do everything well that I do. More of a "king of all trades".
It was about dungeons, WvWVW is completely different bag of marbles, depends on what you do and how you roll.
In a static group you can adjust your builds for max performace, which may as well be maximized healing, but if you just join zergs youre better off with balanced build, if you solo/duo roam - DPS....
Not to mention most posters here are MMORPG veterans, I'd expect they figure out that having more +healing means you're going to heal better... maybe I was overestimating their MMORPG experience.
Once again, this constant attack on ANet is pretty puzzling.
ANet accepted that their tutorial 'can vastly improve' and that they are working on it because the GW2 playerbase is having issues understanding how the game works.
What more does the 'pro-gw2' want?
"Attack on ANet" ahahahahahahahahahah you are nuts.
Thres no "tutorial" for me either, and i applaud ANet for not shoving everything down your throat. It kinda filter to those who want to think for a bit for themselves and those who put blunt statements that are pure nonsense due to their laziness/conditioning form certain previous games.
For once i DONT want "tutorial" in GW2. Keeps slackers away.
The sad part is in all honesty jpnz doesn't care either way, but saying this to piss Jean off or really anyone who doesn't agree with OP, and other naysayers.
Whoops my bad, back to the pretend game shouldn't have brought out the realness.
Funny thing is that he somehow figued out that if you like the game you like it 100% and agree with 100% of what they do/plan.
In a way he cant really tell difference between someone who likes the game and blind fanboi, its all same to him, eg. likes the game=blind fanboi
Also, someone who points out crap that some people write=fanboi.
You would still be much more efficient as support with appropriate gear. Same for DPS. Same for "tankish" (Vitality/Toughness). I'm not saying the "jack of all trades" doesn't work, but if, like our "friend", you want to go deep into roles, you have to gear appropriately. Coming here saying "there's no role in GW2" is nonsense. It's like saying "my car is slow" when one never uses the gearbox.
My warrior for sure is much harder to kill with his tank gear and trait spec than a berzerker one with 10k less health than me. And if I try to do everything on him, with mixed up gear, traits and skills,I will be less good at "tanking/surviving", less good at DPS and less good at support than a warrior who is fully specced and geared for one of those roles. That's a fact.
I disagree personally. That would be true if, for example, I wanted to be nothing but a glass cannon for dps for example and went pure berserkers, but then I'm missing vitality and toughness that keeps be alive when I'm getting hit in return.
Now, with the "there are no roles in GW2"... I hold that position as well. The main reason is that when you look at your skills they're screaming for a more balanced build across d/c/s than a focus into one. Skills tend to do multiple things, rarely are skills purely damage, control or support. The mesmer is a great example of that. It's easy to think of the greatsword, for example, as a dps weapon. However, it also has excellent control built into it as well as support. You have all the tools on one belt, to me it seems silly to focus on only a portion of them and disregard the rest. Utilities too, the ones I use at least round out a balanced build beautifully (for me, my opinion). I use Arcane Thievery, Null Field and Feedback. Arcane Thievery basically swaps up to three conditions on yourself for three boons on the target enemy. Depending on the boons you easily tap into the full d/c/s spectrum. Null Field removes boons from enemies and conditions from allies. It's also a lovely combo field... I've seen many chaos armors shared when someone has the thoughts to fire off a blast finisher in there. It also controls enemy movement. They'll go out of their way to avoid an enemy field. Same with Feedback... another multi-faceted skill. As you know, it reflects enemy projectiles back to the source. You can get some lovely damage that way. It also serves as a wall that will control the enemy that's attacking by making them move or stop firing altogether, and supports allies by reducing projectile damage they take. (Fun little thing... if you can target something between them and you or your allies, like a neutral mob or an aesthetic, you can do wonderous things... you don't need to target an enemy to be effective.)
I guess my point, and I think I may have one, is that specializing can make you good at something but you can be better as a whole by forgetting the role concept and utilizing your abilities to their balanced fullness. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and by ingoring or not utilizing some of those parts you wind up a lesser whole than you should be.
While I agree that being able to save specs would be a nice feature, I don't see how it related to what I was saying, aka e.g. +healing gives... better healing, which is common sense, not rocket science.
Same for all the other stats... you stack power, you gonna hit harder, you stack cond. damage, your DOTs will tick higher, you stack toughness, you gonna get hit for less, etc... it's just the same as in any other MMORPG. As I said, I'd have expected that any MMORPG vet worth his grain of salt would have figured that out by himself, along with the trait system.
I think the trait system is not explained enough, atleast that is what I think Badspock meant.
Though to be honst I thought it worked like the way you said it. I don't know maybe iit's on the person, that if one doesn't like understand something he/she leaves it alon or doesn't want to find out sinc eit's not right there in his/her face. I usually like to go find out and test.
How ever it would be easier to test if you could save specs and etc, because it can get a bit tiresome having to change them out and etc as well as spend silver, just to see a different spec. Then again like you said it doesn't really relate to the whole "I don't understand how I am not a jack of all trades argument, when I can tank, heal, and dps as a Guardian no matter the spec I am." argument. I'm still curious of the tank, cause to me the tankish abilities are supporting others not just yourself. So it's moreso supporting, I guess he means the bubble that protects you as your reviving or something.
I just know me personally haven't manage to be able to that claim when specc'd full support. My only guess would be because you can do those things in light form, with the aegis and weapons you may have. Though there would be a huge difference in regards to your utility skills and traits overall. Like someone can't be a better support character like I if they don't have the right set up to keep your group alive(Was so fun taking Ertenal Battleground middle keep, felt good as asupport guardian.) I will say if you are good you can be a bit of jack of all trades but that's on [skill]. I was fully focused on support so I couldn't tank or do a great deal of Dps like an actual DPS warrior spec or thief.
Come to think of it that was all based on [choice]...intresting.
Edited: Volkon makes a good point as well.
Really and to be straight up like I was earlier in this thread I say people who can;t operate in a MMORPG that doesn't rely on the Holy trinity, just don't bother with those MMORPGs, same goes for people who need the best gear to be the best, and for people who need to be required to socialize to be social.
So next time(for those who don't do casual research, like just knowing the basics and such) before you buy or try an MMORPG make sure it has what you [need] and can't live with out.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I want to play a support role in dungeons/group PvE.
I want to beat on mobs with large weapons in open world PvE and solo exploration/zone clearing.
I want to play a mixed support/pwn role in WvW.
If I want to do all of those activities in one night, I have to respec at least 2 times.
Unacceptable.
Completely and totally unacceptable to NOT have saved specs in 2013 in a AAA MMORPG.
This really depends on class. Severely so.
While I do agree that they need to add spec loadouts (and I seem to remember Anet saying they plan to, but have been able to do it yet), there are classes with builds like you're describing Spock.
Off the top of my head Elementalist, Mesmer, Engineer, and Necromancers all have these specs that can either do stupid amounts of damage, or be super supportive (or a combination of both) depending on which major traits you choose. Elementalist is particularly bad about this, as you can basically spec for Auras (10-20 air, 20-30water, 20-30arcane) and just swap a few traits and you're either a super mobile unstoppable badass w/ support skills, or you're a backline AoE spamming staff ele. The only specs that don't really fit into such a setup are still fairly niche atm (i.e. scepter specs).
That is changing, as Anet is trying to broaden the range of viable specs available, and knowing Anet they'll probably fix that before implementing the needed loadout system they had in GW1. For now though, most classes do have a spec that's fairly universal. They don't work so well in sPvP, but you get a custom loadout saved for that anyway.
It was about dungeons, WvWVW is completely different bag of marbles, depends on what you do and how you roll.
In a static group you can adjust your builds for max performace, which may as well be maximized healing, but if you just join zergs youre better off with balanced build, if you solo/duo roam - DPS....
Theres really no "1 build to rule them all"
It's true that there's no "1 build to rule them all". However, max performance doesn't necessarily mean you're max dps, healing, etc. It's simply that you're playing your character to the best of your abilities with a build you know and are comfortable with. I do everything with my one build on my mesmer, from Fractals to WvW to any other PvE content, and I do it well. It's not because of the build itself, it's because of the comfort with the build, knowing the skills and their secondary (and often tertiary) effects, being situationally aware and not trying to be only one thing. I may not do as much damage on one hit as a glass cannon, but I'll survive more hits and deliver more damage as a whole. I may not be as tough as a tank, but I'll be using my abilities to take less damage anyhow, so maximized toughness or vit would be wasted. It really boils down to how you play over how you're built.
Guild Wars 2 is still fantastic in my eyes, it provides a bit of fun and distraction as all games should. The game is well made (comparitivly) and is great to play. Anet have done really well to cater for all types of mmo fans, more than any other mmo I have more fun playing the game with guildies of all levels and experience including my wife and kids of varying ages. Don't get me wrong, I love the 'trinity' pro raid mmo's as well, for that I have RIFT.
You want the old school raiding, pvp, dungeons using the almighty TRINITY then you need to look else where but don't let that make you forget why you have played GW2 for so long as the fun is still there it's just your expectations that change.
It is inconcievable to so many that playing more than one mmo is allowed. Loyalty is great and devs will love you for ever but they need $$$ to live on like everyone else and will cater to the masses that "login" .
The mmo universe is about to explode with SOOOO many mmos coming out, we need to change our attitudes towards multiple mmos. How many have only 1 computer game on their pc? I mean why are mmo's any different.
Guild Wars 2 is still fantastic in my eyes, it provides a bit of fun and distraction as all games should. The game is well made (comparitivly) and is great to play. Anet have done really well to cater for all types of mmo fans, more than any other mmo I have more fun playing the game with guildies of all levels and experience including my wife and kids of varying ages. Don't get me wrong, I love the 'trinity' pro raid mmo's as well, for that I have RIFT.
You want the old school raiding, pvp, dungeons using the almighty TRINITY then you need to look else where but don't let that make you forget why you have played GW2 for so long as the fun is still there it's just your expectations that change.
It is inconcievable to so many that playing more than one mmo is allowed. Loyalty is great and devs will love you for ever but they need $$$ to live on like everyone else and will cater to the masses that "login" .
The mmo universe is about to explode with SOOOO many mmos coming out, we need to change our attitudes towards multiple mmos. How many have only 1 computer game on their pc? I mean why are mmo's any different.
you make a valid point. I do however, play very aggressively at the one game I'm playing until I finally decide to move on to something else, then drop it entirely (or almost entirely) so I am guilty of this as well.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I was a "GW2 is gonna be the shit!" player who made sure everyone knew not to bother me when a beta weekend was scheduled. Pre-ordered, took part in every single beta and stress test, made full use of my early access, convinced my entire guild of around 25 people to migrate to GW2 and we had a merry time until release.
Fast track to now, I resigned as guild leader, parked all 5 of my lvl 80's, returned, found another guild, worked my way up to WvW Officer ranking, got fed-up with the shitty state of EU tier 1, left the guild, transfered to a tier 4 server, joined a PVP guild, had fun in WvW and yes, I've quit again.
I've never experienced such a love-hate relationship with a game before. Sadly there's more hate and disappointment than love. Personally it failed to deliver on the promises and hype in their manifesto. I miss having an identity and purpose, I miss the Trinity, I miss the cohesiveness of a guild, I miss having the simple tools needed to manage a group of people.
I'm now trying out SWTOR, a game I never thought I'd enjoy, but strangely I am.
I was a "GW2 is gonna be the shit!" player who made sure everyone knew not to bother me when a beta weekend was scheduled. Pre-ordered, took part in every single beta and stress test, made full use of my early access, convinced my entire guild of around 25 people to migrate to GW2 and we had a merry time until release.
Fast track to now, I resigned as guild leader, parked all 5 of my lvl 80's, returned, found another guild, worked my way up to WvW Officer ranking, got fed-up with the shitty state of EU tier 1, left the guild, transfered to a tier 4 server, joined a PVP guild, had fun in WvW and yes, I've quit again.
I've never experienced such a love-hate relationship with a game before. Sadly there's more hate and disappointment than love. Personally it failed to deliver on the promises and hype in their manifesto. I miss having an identity and purpose, I miss the Trinity, I miss the cohesiveness of a guild, I miss having the simple tools needed to manage a group of people.
I'm now trying out SWTOR, a game I never thought I'd enjoy, but strangely I am.
Sounds like you got your moneys worth though.
Burning out on an entertainment form isn't that un-usual.
I think Shawshank Redemption is the best movie ever made, but that doesn't mean I don't get burned out when its on constant repeat during the Xmas holidays on TV.
Anet promised a lot of things (remember the 'One DE can change the entire zone!') and while they didn't fulfill everything, they delivered a very good game
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I don't feel any different playing with a Mesmer vs. a Thief, vs. a Warrior, it all feels the same.
I started playing GW2 just a few days ago and am enjoying it very much, but this is exactly the most obvious "pecularity" I've noticed about this game. I bought Guild Wars 2 to have something different to SWTOR - my "main" MMO. For me, SWTOR is the perfect themepark MMO, with clearly guided progression and choreographed, cinematic experience.
In regards to the class feeling, SWTOR is the exact opposite of GW2. Each class plays completely differently and everything about that class glows with character. Since each class has a separate story, you get radically different gameplay experiences (playing the Jedi Knight feels like KotOR 3, playing the Imperial Agent feels like a James Bond game in space, playing the Bounty Hunter seems like a Boba Fett game. Every class quest you do and every ability you execute distinctly represents the respective classe's "feel"). As a drawback, the game feels a bit too choreographed at times, but I suppose you can't eat your pie and have it.
The point of all this being - it seems to me as you'd enjoy something with destinct class personalities and differences - like SWOTR. You can always try it, since it's F2P now (though the model is not too well executed, I sincerely recommend subscribing if you like the game). I needed some variaty and enjoy playing both SWTOR for the distinct class feel and excellent leveling experiance through the class story and GW2 for the great world exploration and random events.
That way, I eat one pie and still have another one. :P
First of all there is a lot to love about this game. The graphics, music, questing, dungeons, dynamic events, cooperative atmosphere and fantastic community make this one of the best mmorpg games I have ever played. I have enjoyed my time in Guild wars 2 for over 6 months now leveling both Mesmer and Thief to 80, spending hundreds of hours in the game's immersive and dynamic PvE / PvP content.
I believe that this is by far one of the best mmorpg games developed to date hands down.
With all of the above said, in a matter of 90 minutes I went from being an officer to a guild of 104 players,doing WvW and leveling my alt characters to deciding to uninstall the game and likely leave for a very long period of time.
Now I am sure that everyone here is going to likely find my reasons for feeling the need to leave the game so spontaneously a bit bizarre and maybe just plain nuts; but the following two reasons for leaving hit me so hard and so fast that I simply lost every little bit of motivation to play the game. I went from wanting to advance my character and kicking butt in PvP to wanting nothing to do with the game all in a matter of minutes.
While having a great time leveling my newly created warrior today with a few of my guild members we decided to go to the vendors to sell and upgrade our gear / loot. When I arrived at the vendor I looked through the weapons list eager to get my hands on a very particular type of weapon. To my surprise this weapon was not only unavailable, but didn't actually exist in the game! What I am referring to is the two handed axe or Greataxe. Now I do not know how in the world I played the game for over 6 months and world cleared two characters to 80 without noticing this weapon was missing in the game. I immediately started feeling a very powerful sense of disconnect with my character, but I played along as if nothing was wrong all the while a heavy feeling of dissonance was taking hold within me. After about 30 min I began to notice that I didn't really feel like a warrior should feel in a game, or at least how I believe a warrior should feel. I was not using the quintessential warrior weapon! (e.g., I felt like a ranger would if he didn't have the option to choose a longbow as a weapon, only crossbows, short bows, and throwing weapons) — needless to say I just wasn't enjoying myself so I decided to go back to playing on my Mesmer. After about 15 min of playing on my Mesmer it hit me... I don't feel any different playing with a Mesmer vs. a Thief, vs. a Warrior, it all feels the same.
Now don't get the wrong idea, I don't mean the play style which is drastically different, I mean the inherent need to belong, the need to have a job, the feeling of being a necessary part of a cohort group of individuals. In my opinion this game lacks that feeling despite being such an immensely cooperative game. Everyone is a healer, everyone can do damage, everyone can essentially do everything.... that in turn makes me feel like anything I do has no purpose, no meaning, no real significance. I didn't notice it before but this beautifully crafted game suddenly felt as hollow as a Christmas sphere. The game felt like a shell, and suddenly, my entire perception and experience changed. Everything felt empty.
And so, I left. Just like that, I explained how I felt to my guild...naturally everyone was shocked. I ran the website for the guild and gave all of the necessary information to the GM so that she could appoint someone else to run it. I said my goodbyes and left.
Why am I posting here?
I have no idea, maybe I just want to hear what you guys have to say about my experience.
I still feel a very huge sense of emptiness when I think of GW2. There is no denying the fact that I loved the game for 6+ months. I was committed to the game, helped to run my own guild, had spent over 800 hours playing, and had formed a very successful WvW / PvE circle of close friends. The game was an absolutely phenomenal ride while I felt fulfilled, but once I started to really think about the game, once I started to think about my role, my class, my decisions, my choices, I began to realize how little it all mattered. In traditional mmos If I played a healer the entire guild would celebrate (healers are always needed) if I played a Warrior or a Tank I knew that I was responsible for keeping my group alive. It brought about a sense of duty and yes even pride after a successful dungeon run. All of these things feel missing from Guild Wars 2. What is surprising is that it took me that long to realize it. I guess I was too busy having fun with the game to notice it. It wasn't until that particular moment where I wanted to equip a Great Axe as a warrior and noticed it was not in the game that I began to think about the game's limitations and discovered how I felt.
So what do you guys think?
Am I nuts?
Are my conclusions legitimate in your opinion?
Has anything like this ever happened to you guys?
I would love to get a discussion going about this because I am really quite perplexed about the whole experience.
Looking forward to reading your replies.
Thanks.
I swear I read the exact same topic under each sub-MMO forum...
Please don't assume it must be played a certain way to be CALLED an MMO. Massive Multiplayer Online. I think GW2 qualifies, yes? Maybe its not YOUR kind of mmo but it is a damn good one.
Dude (OP), yes, your reasons for quitting are bizzare but your own and I'll accept that as everyone else should. But this sounds like a life crisis. Something in your life is missing and you're reflecting this shit ingame. Believe me, every other game you play will be missing something too. GW2 offers you the choice that all (Most) other mmos don't. You WANT to focus healing, do just that, damage, do it, support, sure. Tank, why not! Except you can do it with different classes and in different ways. Warriors can't use a greataxe!? Oh fucking boohoo! You can use swords, greatswords, shield, bows, riffles, maces, hammers, horns and I'm probably forgetting a few.
AND, you can swap weapon sets in combat. Talk about playing the game the way YOU want to play it, no other mmos let you do that (TESO seems to want to though). And my number one reason to keep playing GW2, no sub fees! HOLLY SHIT! Quality game and I just had to buy it. Thank you Anet. Love you!
________________________ "If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
It's really not that great of a game....it's just the closest we've had to the best game of all times, in DAOC....IMO that's why people stick with it.
Personally I found it increasingly easier to find other things to do than log into the game. I'll give you my short list
-No Trinity = Game has no soul
-PVE Dungeons and otherwise is dumb...is a tactic to rez fast?
-PVE/PVP too solo centric...again without a trinity, you can do it all yourself, thus defeating the entire MMO part of the RPG.
-The downed state is just LoL.....personally it's cheese ball nonesense, and way unbalanced.
-class balance....now that's just funny.
-They sold this game as no grind....however the new gear they keep introducting and dungeon nonsense is super grindtastic....the likes we havent seen since AION.
Change is always good people, but I think they just missed the mark, and or an MMORPG is never meant to not have the Trinity. Furthermore, although the game is "Free" to play, it certainly isn't for those of us that have other obligations, and it makes it quite easy to not log in. Remeber the days when you wanted to log in? This game just does not have that for this guy.
Vack FF XIV - the single worse game to cross my hard drive, ever.
It's really not that great of a game....it's just the closest we've had to the best game of all times, in DAOC....IMO that's why people stick with it.
Personally I found it increasingly easier to find other things to do than log into the game. I'll give you my short list
-No Trinity = Game has no soul
-PVE Dungeons and otherwise is dumb...is a tactic to rez fast?
-PVE/PVP too solo centric...again without a trinity, you can do it all yourself, thus defeating the entire MMO part of the RPG.
-The downed state is just LoL.....personally it's cheese ball nonesense, and way unbalanced.
-class balance....now that's just funny.
-They sold this game as no grind....however the new gear they keep introducting and dungeon nonsense is super grindtastic....the likes we havent seen since AION.
Change is always good people, but I think they just missed the mark, and or an MMORPG is never meant to not have the Trinity. Furthermore, although the game is "Free" to play, it certainly isn't for those of us that have other obligations, and it makes it quite easy to not log in. Remeber the days when you wanted to log in? This game just does not have that for this guy.
You haven't played in a while, have you.
In order to have a soul, the game must have the trinity? GW2's is support, control, dps. While it's possible to scrape by in SOME instances without it, you are going to have a bad time (excluding CoF path 1)
Rez rushing dungeons has been gone for a while now. It was a stupid tactic before and is subpar now.
Tell me how you "win" WvW by yourself.
Downed states are a hit and miss. Same with underwater combat
I can get almost any armor stat combo in 1-2 days, playing 3-4 hours for each day. No, that is not an exhaggeration. Comparing it to AION? That's an out right lie.
However, if this game is missing that special intangible something that would hook you, then that's another thing entirely. I hope you find that game.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Trinity is a false sense of security for players who can't coordinate with a team, dont use available tools to control a mob and cant handle environment/mechanic awareness. I am sorry non trinity gameplay doesn't interest you, but if you and your groupmates played it as intended you would see it works a lot better than the trinity ever did.
In essence, GW2 is a feature rich game that fails to entertain its features fully. In other words it got lots of potential yet to be used. There is a huge number of systems in place to keep people entertained who like the game for what it is. Gameplay, content etc is all there. ANet just needs to add more depth to features that need it (like WvW->bigger more impactful decisions, sPvP->more divers rulesets and game modes, PvE->more progression after level 80 that is not gear).
ANet got the foundation right, now they only need to expand on what they got.
Originally posted by IPolygon In essence, GW2 is a feature rich game that fails to entertain its features fully. In other words it got lots of potential yet to be used. There is a huge number of system in place to keep people entertained who like the game for what it is. Gameplay, content etc is all there. ANet just needs to add more depth to features that need it (like WvW->bigger more impactful decisions, sPvP->more divers rulesets and game modes, PvE->more progression after level 80 that is not gear).
ANet got the foundation right, now they only need to expand on what they got.
I have to agree with this post. I have been playing this game daily for the past several months now. The game has issues. Yes. But the base foundation is really solid and different. ANET needs to get some things straightend out and as this game matures like it's predecessor did, I think it has the potential to grow seriously. I just think ANET needs to adjust their priorities as to what needs "fixing" (nerfing).
I have to agree with the OP. I had huge hopes for the game when it finally made its debut. I loved nealy everything about Guild Wars 1. But the lack of the trinity theorem in GW2 just got to me. I did take an extended break from the game, and have since picked it back up. The game has its up's and down's that's for sure. Overall, I'd have to say it's a very good game. The feeling can just get lost when there isn't a defined role in a party. Unless you're running with a group of friends, fights tend to seem more chaotic and out of control. While this is a good thing from tiem to time, I would enjoy more structure to it. I know why the devs went this route. They appeased the people who would whine about not getting anything done because they couldn't find a tank, or couldn't find a helaer, etc etc. True, that is frustrating, but I also believe it is a major part of the MMO experience. Going into dungeons/raids in games that have the structered party system, everyone has a role that needs to be done to accomplish victory. I just get the feeling in Guild Wars 2, whoever feels like joining you in a dungeon can join you and do practically whatever they want during a fight, as long as it's damage related. Now, the combat is a bit more exciting with this method for awhile, but personally I think it feels empty after awhile. You don't have the huge sense of accomplishment.
With that said, Guild Wars 2 still allows for this structered sort of play to an extent. It just isn't as direct as one may think. Subtle differences can be noticed when people spec for tanking, healing, etc. One just has to search a bit more hard to find these differences, than in most other MMO's. Which can be either good or bad thing. Personally, I like playing the healer class. It is a bit fun to know the group relies heavily on you. (It's also fun to let a party member's health drop dangerously low, hear them flip out at you, then at the last second, heal them back to max health, but maybe I'm jsut a bit crazy in that sense)
It's really not that great of a game....it's just the closest we've had to the best game of all times, in DAOC....IMO that's why people stick with it.
I played DoAC and I am happy GW2 IS NOT
Personally I found it increasingly easier to find other things to do than log into the game. I'll give you my short list
-No Trinity = Game has no soul - game has soul but people get stuck in a rut and don't want to try something new.
-PVE Dungeons and otherwise is dumb...is a tactic to rez fast? Not any more - I guess you haven't played for a while or ever.
-PVE/PVP too solo centric...again without a trinity, you can do it all yourself, thus defeating the entire MMO part of the RPG. You have to think about playing in a team with GW2 - skills can have synergy so you need to think about that, with the trinity it is pick a role and go. No thinking what so ever.
-The downed state is just LoL.....personally it's cheese ball nonesense, and way unbalanced. I have no opinion on this. It does make the game different, even if you dislike it.
-class balance....now that's just funny. What game with a trinity has balance - you can't name one and don't say DaOC because that would be nonsense. GW2 is more balanced than the others - learn skill synergy and not just mashing keys.
-They sold this game as no grind....however the new gear they keep introducting and dungeon nonsense is super grindtastic....the likes we havent seen since AION. You don't have to do the dungeons, if you want to, that is fine. Just don't make it sound like Rift or WoW where if you want the UBER gear you have to grind dungeons - you don't in GW2.
The trinity is a cop out. It was a way to make the game mechanics simple when the computers couldn't handle more than that. There is nothing complex at all about the trinity - it is so mindless it is numbing.
Change is always good people, but I think they just missed the mark, and or an MMORPG is never meant to not have the Trinity. Furthermore, although the game is "Free" to play, it certainly isn't for those of us that have other obligations, and it makes it quite easy to not log in. Remeber the days when you wanted to log in? This game just does not have that for this guy.
You know, you are missing the point about games. They are supposed to be escape and if you can't do that move on. DOn't complain or think it is the game's fault - it is yours. It is not like you are paying a sub fee where you feel you have to play to use the money up.
It's really not that great of a game....it's just the closest we've had to the best game of all times, in DAOC....IMO that's why people stick with it.
Personally I found it increasingly easier to find other things to do than log into the game. I'll give you my short list
-No Trinity = Game has no soul
-PVE Dungeons and otherwise is dumb...is a tactic to rez fast?
-PVE/PVP too solo centric...again without a trinity, you can do it all yourself, thus defeating the entire MMO part of the RPG.
-The downed state is just LoL.....personally it's cheese ball nonesense, and way unbalanced.
-class balance....now that's just funny.
-They sold this game as no grind....however the new gear they keep introducting and dungeon nonsense is super grindtastic....the likes we havent seen since AION.
Change is always good people, but I think they just missed the mark, and or an MMORPG is never meant to not have the Trinity. Furthermore, although the game is "Free" to play, it certainly isn't for those of us that have other obligations, and it makes it quite easy to not log in. Remeber the days when you wanted to log in? This game just does not have that for this guy.
You need help sir.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Lol...the level some have gone to in this thread to defend the gameplay in this game or the trinity concept is downright fucking hilarious.
Makes you actually feel for developers.
I will say those of you saying one style of gameplay or the other takes no skill, teamwork, or awareness of surroundings need to just stop already. Seriously...unless you're simply trying to bait people. If that is the case good show.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Comments
Prepare to be disappointed then as Anet are on-record in saying that there's a 'vastly improved' tutorial coming soon.
So contradicting what ANet is saying isn't 'attacking ANet'? LOLWUT?
Not sure if attacking ANet will work for the 'pro-gw2' side though.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I want to play a support role in dungeons/group PvE.
I want to beat on mobs with large weapons in open world PvE and solo exploration/zone clearing.
I want to play a mixed support/pwn role in WvW.
If I want to do all of those activities in one night, I have to respec at least 2 times.
Unacceptable.
Completely and totally unacceptable to NOT have saved specs in 2013 in a AAA MMORPG.
It was about dungeons, WvWVW is completely different bag of marbles, depends on what you do and how you roll.
In a static group you can adjust your builds for max performace, which may as well be maximized healing, but if you just join zergs youre better off with balanced build, if you solo/duo roam - DPS....
Theres really no "1 build to rule them all"
Funny thing is that he somehow figued out that if you like the game you like it 100% and agree with 100% of what they do/plan.
In a way he cant really tell difference between someone who likes the game and blind fanboi, its all same to him, eg. likes the game=blind fanboi
Also, someone who points out crap that some people write=fanboi.
GW2 is not perfect.
ANet is not perfect.
But they are still best of the lot by a mile.
Thats only matter of convenience. Might or might not be there, would be nice but certanly not necessary.
I disagree personally. That would be true if, for example, I wanted to be nothing but a glass cannon for dps for example and went pure berserkers, but then I'm missing vitality and toughness that keeps be alive when I'm getting hit in return.
Now, with the "there are no roles in GW2"... I hold that position as well. The main reason is that when you look at your skills they're screaming for a more balanced build across d/c/s than a focus into one. Skills tend to do multiple things, rarely are skills purely damage, control or support. The mesmer is a great example of that. It's easy to think of the greatsword, for example, as a dps weapon. However, it also has excellent control built into it as well as support. You have all the tools on one belt, to me it seems silly to focus on only a portion of them and disregard the rest. Utilities too, the ones I use at least round out a balanced build beautifully (for me, my opinion). I use Arcane Thievery, Null Field and Feedback. Arcane Thievery basically swaps up to three conditions on yourself for three boons on the target enemy. Depending on the boons you easily tap into the full d/c/s spectrum. Null Field removes boons from enemies and conditions from allies. It's also a lovely combo field... I've seen many chaos armors shared when someone has the thoughts to fire off a blast finisher in there. It also controls enemy movement. They'll go out of their way to avoid an enemy field. Same with Feedback... another multi-faceted skill. As you know, it reflects enemy projectiles back to the source. You can get some lovely damage that way. It also serves as a wall that will control the enemy that's attacking by making them move or stop firing altogether, and supports allies by reducing projectile damage they take. (Fun little thing... if you can target something between them and you or your allies, like a neutral mob or an aesthetic, you can do wonderous things... you don't need to target an enemy to be effective.)
I guess my point, and I think I may have one, is that specializing can make you good at something but you can be better as a whole by forgetting the role concept and utilizing your abilities to their balanced fullness. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and by ingoring or not utilizing some of those parts you wind up a lesser whole than you should be.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I think the trait system is not explained enough, atleast that is what I think Badspock meant.
Though to be honst I thought it worked like the way you said it. I don't know maybe iit's on the person, that if one doesn't like understand something he/she leaves it alon or doesn't want to find out sinc eit's not right there in his/her face. I usually like to go find out and test.
How ever it would be easier to test if you could save specs and etc, because it can get a bit tiresome having to change them out and etc as well as spend silver, just to see a different spec. Then again like you said it doesn't really relate to the whole "I don't understand how I am not a jack of all trades argument, when I can tank, heal, and dps as a Guardian no matter the spec I am." argument. I'm still curious of the tank, cause to me the tankish abilities are supporting others not just yourself. So it's moreso supporting, I guess he means the bubble that protects you as your reviving or something.
I just know me personally haven't manage to be able to that claim when specc'd full support. My only guess would be because you can do those things in light form, with the aegis and weapons you may have. Though there would be a huge difference in regards to your utility skills and traits overall. Like someone can't be a better support character like I if they don't have the right set up to keep your group alive(Was so fun taking Ertenal Battleground middle keep, felt good as asupport guardian.) I will say if you are good you can be a bit of jack of all trades but that's on [skill]. I was fully focused on support so I couldn't tank or do a great deal of Dps like an actual DPS warrior spec or thief.
Come to think of it that was all based on [choice]...intresting.
Edited: Volkon makes a good point as well.
Really and to be straight up like I was earlier in this thread I say people who can;t operate in a MMORPG that doesn't rely on the Holy trinity, just don't bother with those MMORPGs, same goes for people who need the best gear to be the best, and for people who need to be required to socialize to be social.
So next time(for those who don't do casual research, like just knowing the basics and such) before you buy or try an MMORPG make sure it has what you [need] and can't live with out.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
This really depends on class. Severely so.
While I do agree that they need to add spec loadouts (and I seem to remember Anet saying they plan to, but have been able to do it yet), there are classes with builds like you're describing Spock.
Off the top of my head Elementalist, Mesmer, Engineer, and Necromancers all have these specs that can either do stupid amounts of damage, or be super supportive (or a combination of both) depending on which major traits you choose. Elementalist is particularly bad about this, as you can basically spec for Auras (10-20 air, 20-30water, 20-30arcane) and just swap a few traits and you're either a super mobile unstoppable badass w/ support skills, or you're a backline AoE spamming staff ele. The only specs that don't really fit into such a setup are still fairly niche atm (i.e. scepter specs).
That is changing, as Anet is trying to broaden the range of viable specs available, and knowing Anet they'll probably fix that before implementing the needed loadout system they had in GW1. For now though, most classes do have a spec that's fairly universal. They don't work so well in sPvP, but you get a custom loadout saved for that anyway.
It's true that there's no "1 build to rule them all". However, max performance doesn't necessarily mean you're max dps, healing, etc. It's simply that you're playing your character to the best of your abilities with a build you know and are comfortable with. I do everything with my one build on my mesmer, from Fractals to WvW to any other PvE content, and I do it well. It's not because of the build itself, it's because of the comfort with the build, knowing the skills and their secondary (and often tertiary) effects, being situationally aware and not trying to be only one thing. I may not do as much damage on one hit as a glass cannon, but I'll survive more hits and deliver more damage as a whole. I may not be as tough as a tank, but I'll be using my abilities to take less damage anyhow, so maximized toughness or vit would be wasted. It really boils down to how you play over how you're built.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Guild Wars 2 is still fantastic in my eyes, it provides a bit of fun and distraction as all games should. The game is well made (comparitivly) and is great to play. Anet have done really well to cater for all types of mmo fans, more than any other mmo I have more fun playing the game with guildies of all levels and experience including my wife and kids of varying ages. Don't get me wrong, I love the 'trinity' pro raid mmo's as well, for that I have RIFT.
You want the old school raiding, pvp, dungeons using the almighty TRINITY then you need to look else where but don't let that make you forget why you have played GW2 for so long as the fun is still there it's just your expectations that change.
It is inconcievable to so many that playing more than one mmo is allowed. Loyalty is great and devs will love you for ever but they need $$$ to live on like everyone else and will cater to the masses that "login" .
The mmo universe is about to explode with SOOOO many mmos coming out, we need to change our attitudes towards multiple mmos. How many have only 1 computer game on their pc? I mean why are mmo's any different.
you make a valid point. I do however, play very aggressively at the one game I'm playing until I finally decide to move on to something else, then drop it entirely (or almost entirely) so I am guilty of this as well.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I was a "GW2 is gonna be the shit!" player who made sure everyone knew not to bother me when a beta weekend was scheduled. Pre-ordered, took part in every single beta and stress test, made full use of my early access, convinced my entire guild of around 25 people to migrate to GW2 and we had a merry time until release.
Fast track to now, I resigned as guild leader, parked all 5 of my lvl 80's, returned, found another guild, worked my way up to WvW Officer ranking, got fed-up with the shitty state of EU tier 1, left the guild, transfered to a tier 4 server, joined a PVP guild, had fun in WvW and yes, I've quit again.
I've never experienced such a love-hate relationship with a game before. Sadly there's more hate and disappointment than love. Personally it failed to deliver on the promises and hype in their manifesto. I miss having an identity and purpose, I miss the Trinity, I miss the cohesiveness of a guild, I miss having the simple tools needed to manage a group of people.
I'm now trying out SWTOR, a game I never thought I'd enjoy, but strangely I am.
Sounds like you got your moneys worth though.
Burning out on an entertainment form isn't that un-usual.
I think Shawshank Redemption is the best movie ever made, but that doesn't mean I don't get burned out when its on constant repeat during the Xmas holidays on TV.
Anet promised a lot of things (remember the 'One DE can change the entire zone!') and while they didn't fulfill everything, they delivered a very good game
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I started playing GW2 just a few days ago and am enjoying it very much, but this is exactly the most obvious "pecularity" I've noticed about this game. I bought Guild Wars 2 to have something different to SWTOR - my "main" MMO. For me, SWTOR is the perfect themepark MMO, with clearly guided progression and choreographed, cinematic experience.
In regards to the class feeling, SWTOR is the exact opposite of GW2. Each class plays completely differently and everything about that class glows with character. Since each class has a separate story, you get radically different gameplay experiences (playing the Jedi Knight feels like KotOR 3, playing the Imperial Agent feels like a James Bond game in space, playing the Bounty Hunter seems like a Boba Fett game. Every class quest you do and every ability you execute distinctly represents the respective classe's "feel"). As a drawback, the game feels a bit too choreographed at times, but I suppose you can't eat your pie and have it.
The point of all this being - it seems to me as you'd enjoy something with destinct class personalities and differences - like SWOTR. You can always try it, since it's F2P now (though the model is not too well executed, I sincerely recommend subscribing if you like the game). I needed some variaty and enjoy playing both SWTOR for the distinct class feel and excellent leveling experiance through the class story and GW2 for the great world exploration and random events.
That way, I eat one pie and still have another one. :P
I swear I read the exact same topic under each sub-MMO forum...
is this always you, using the Exact same wording?
Please don't assume it must be played a certain way to be CALLED an MMO. Massive Multiplayer Online. I think GW2 qualifies, yes? Maybe its not YOUR kind of mmo but it is a damn good one.
Dude (OP), yes, your reasons for quitting are bizzare but your own and I'll accept that as everyone else should. But this sounds like a life crisis. Something in your life is missing and you're reflecting this shit ingame. Believe me, every other game you play will be missing something too. GW2 offers you the choice that all (Most) other mmos don't. You WANT to focus healing, do just that, damage, do it, support, sure. Tank, why not! Except you can do it with different classes and in different ways. Warriors can't use a greataxe!? Oh fucking boohoo! You can use swords, greatswords, shield, bows, riffles, maces, hammers, horns and I'm probably forgetting a few.
AND, you can swap weapon sets in combat. Talk about playing the game the way YOU want to play it, no other mmos let you do that (TESO seems to want to though). And my number one reason to keep playing GW2, no sub fees! HOLLY SHIT! Quality game and I just had to buy it. Thank you Anet. Love you!
________________________
"If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
It's really not that great of a game....it's just the closest we've had to the best game of all times, in DAOC....IMO that's why people stick with it.
Personally I found it increasingly easier to find other things to do than log into the game. I'll give you my short list
-No Trinity = Game has no soul
-PVE Dungeons and otherwise is dumb...is a tactic to rez fast?
-PVE/PVP too solo centric...again without a trinity, you can do it all yourself, thus defeating the entire MMO part of the RPG.
-The downed state is just LoL.....personally it's cheese ball nonesense, and way unbalanced.
-class balance....now that's just funny.
-They sold this game as no grind....however the new gear they keep introducting and dungeon nonsense is super grindtastic....the likes we havent seen since AION.
Change is always good people, but I think they just missed the mark, and or an MMORPG is never meant to not have the Trinity. Furthermore, although the game is "Free" to play, it certainly isn't for those of us that have other obligations, and it makes it quite easy to not log in. Remeber the days when you wanted to log in? This game just does not have that for this guy.
Vack
FF XIV - the single worse game to cross my hard drive, ever.
You haven't played in a while, have you.
In order to have a soul, the game must have the trinity? GW2's is support, control, dps. While it's possible to scrape by in SOME instances without it, you are going to have a bad time (excluding CoF path 1)
Rez rushing dungeons has been gone for a while now. It was a stupid tactic before and is subpar now.
Tell me how you "win" WvW by yourself.
Downed states are a hit and miss. Same with underwater combat
I can get almost any armor stat combo in 1-2 days, playing 3-4 hours for each day. No, that is not an exhaggeration. Comparing it to AION? That's an out right lie.
However, if this game is missing that special intangible something that would hook you, then that's another thing entirely. I hope you find that game.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
[PvX]Tempest - Check us out
I have to agree with this post. I have been playing this game daily for the past several months now. The game has issues. Yes. But the base foundation is really solid and different. ANET needs to get some things straightend out and as this game matures like it's predecessor did, I think it has the potential to grow seriously. I just think ANET needs to adjust their priorities as to what needs "fixing" (nerfing).
I have to agree with the OP. I had huge hopes for the game when it finally made its debut. I loved nealy everything about Guild Wars 1. But the lack of the trinity theorem in GW2 just got to me. I did take an extended break from the game, and have since picked it back up. The game has its up's and down's that's for sure. Overall, I'd have to say it's a very good game. The feeling can just get lost when there isn't a defined role in a party. Unless you're running with a group of friends, fights tend to seem more chaotic and out of control. While this is a good thing from tiem to time, I would enjoy more structure to it. I know why the devs went this route. They appeased the people who would whine about not getting anything done because they couldn't find a tank, or couldn't find a helaer, etc etc. True, that is frustrating, but I also believe it is a major part of the MMO experience. Going into dungeons/raids in games that have the structered party system, everyone has a role that needs to be done to accomplish victory. I just get the feeling in Guild Wars 2, whoever feels like joining you in a dungeon can join you and do practically whatever they want during a fight, as long as it's damage related. Now, the combat is a bit more exciting with this method for awhile, but personally I think it feels empty after awhile. You don't have the huge sense of accomplishment.
With that said, Guild Wars 2 still allows for this structered sort of play to an extent. It just isn't as direct as one may think. Subtle differences can be noticed when people spec for tanking, healing, etc. One just has to search a bit more hard to find these differences, than in most other MMO's. Which can be either good or bad thing. Personally, I like playing the healer class. It is a bit fun to know the group relies heavily on you. (It's also fun to let a party member's health drop dangerously low, hear them flip out at you, then at the last second, heal them back to max health, but maybe I'm jsut a bit crazy in that sense)
You need help sir.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Lol...the level some have gone to in this thread to defend the gameplay in this game or the trinity concept is downright fucking hilarious.
Makes you actually feel for developers.
I will say those of you saying one style of gameplay or the other takes no skill, teamwork, or awareness of surroundings need to just stop already. Seriously...unless you're simply trying to bait people. If that is the case good show.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.