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Camelot Unchained: built on a foundation of dishonesty
strangiato2112
Member CommonPosts: 1,538
Let me first say this: I fully expect CU to release. I don't think there is much chance at all for people who pledge to kickstarter not getting a product. I doubt it will be 2.5 years, but it also wont be more than 4 or 5. Jacobs will get the product out there and will not 'run away with the money'.
But man, Jacobs is playing many, many people for suckers.
I see post after post about how this kickstarter is so great because it avoids the big publishers and will free CSE to do exactly what they want. And Jacobs is playing this up big time.
The key thing is this: Jacobs could completely avoid the big publishers or sources that will control his game, and still raise the money without kickstarter. But why do that when he can get cheap capital.
This kickstarter isnt a poltical move. Its an economic move. And the fact he is selling it as a political move is where the dishonesty comes in. Lets face it, selling the kickstarter on the reality platform of "Hey, back my kickstarter because it will allow me a greater share of the revenues/profits" isnt going to inspire 1 million+ of donations. He is doing what he has to to get as much cheap money as possible.
Its a smart business strategy. But this is the same sort of thing that those 'big evil corporations' do and get vilified for it. And there is no gaurantee at all he wont pull a Mythic and sell out to a big publisher anyway. I highly doubt he plans too, but game designers tend to get bored and want to move on so 2-3 years post release its awfully tempting to get a nice paycheck and move on to your next project.
So if you are worried about your money being safe, don't. This is one of the safest kickstarters out there.
But don't think its some big political move that it isn't, and stop trying to push it off on to others as one.
Comments
Are you saying he's bad because he doesn't want to spend a ton of his own money on a game that may or may not get released and, in today's market, may or may not even be financially successful? You're admonishing him because he's trying to make smart decisions that will help him put out a successful fun game for his fans? I'm sorry, but you're crazy.
You seem to both:
A: have a complete lack of trust in anyone.
and
B: fail to understand that there are multiple reasons for anyone to do anything.
We get all these negative posts saying its all some sort of scam to make MJ money. Why? He's putting in two million dollars of his own money. He has money. He could just sit back, maybe have his studio make some simple mobile games and live comfortably for the rest of his days if he just wanted money.
He is doing this project because he is a gamer. His team at CSE are gamers. He communicates with the community and genuinely wants to make a great game. If he was just after money, he could make more money with less work by not doing this kickstarter.
Lei is right.
S'rong with you?
We get a game we want - at a cheaper price, with perks. We get a game we want - that wouldn't be made otherwise.
We get a developer interaction wtih the community that hasn't been seen since the mid 90's. It's smart for him - to prove there is an interesting, and it's smart for us, to get in on the game while it's still cheaper, and help mold the game we want.
Already MJ has listened to the community, taken suggestions and ideas, and put them foward. He's very serious when he says the community will help shape the game. I don't get how that's dishonest, or how we're suckers.
Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained
No, that isnt what i said at all. read more carefully.
And he isnt doing it for the fans.
Uhh, yes, Kickstarter is about raising money. Not sure why you expect this to be a groundbreaking revelation, lol.
I personally pledged what I felt the game would end up costing. So, regardless, I'm not exactly throwing away money assuming the game does release.
1. You have no way of knowing it is the game you want until its released. GW2 looked perfect to many on paper. And it did end up being the game some of them wanted. But others came away disappointed. There is no way of knowing if this game will be what you want/expect.
2. that wouldnt be made otherwise...bullshit. If you believe kickstarter was this games only chance to be made I have a bridge to sell you in brooklyn Ill give you a good deal on
this is exactly what i thought as well. I don´t get your true motive behinde your post. It read´s totally bitter and as Taldier already explained, there are many easier road´s for MJ to take and he does not. Of course he want´s to KS his project from a economic motive, but it´s not that black and white like you describe it. It´s more like a compromise in my eye´s (the road he took now)
And a very important aspect is nature of Kickstarter itself. Any other project hosted there ask´s for money. i guess Mark has "a lot of money" himself but that does not mean that he has to put a lot of his money into production (what he is doing) to be trustworthy. There is a need in our mind to reflect these circumstances.
That s just my thought´s on your given topic
I backed because I wanted to play an RvR based game.
Not because of this game development politics.
There might be a small, or maybe even significant portion of people who backed because of this "I hate big publishers" mentality.
But, ultimately I'd say it's only one corner of the foundation as opposed to the entirity.
As you said, it's a good business decision.
Hi
Course the kickstarter is done for economic reasons. That is the whole point with it. I dont see him front any political idea, if you think so you have no idea what political ideas are.
as to cheap money...... You can Get a game for $ 25. I'm not sure who gets the best deal here, but I am thinking perhaps the one paying $25 for a game.
and about dishonesty, i think your whole post is based on mischief and no-good.
It shouldnt be a ground breaking revelation. But I see post after post after post about evil publishers and crap like that. Or that this gives people more say in the game. Its just fund raising. And the type of funds it raises are extremely attractive for several reasons.
Noticed i never said that pledging is throwing your money away or something like that. The game will launch, I am certain of that.
Not even insterested in this game since it's not one yet but have to call bs on ops position. Crative types hate having non creative types tell them how to be creative!!!
Only reason they put up with it is because they need said company or investors resources. If those shackles can be cut, must creative types would not think twice about grabbing the bolt cutters!!!
This is game niche like REALLY niche, one would have to be batshit crazy to fund it from his own money and hope for return. Kickstarter is "cheap" money but just as importantly a confirmation that there is a big enough market for the idea.
Even If I had 20 mil in cash in the bank I would not put 5 mil to build it without having a buy in from fans. Not a chance.
Except that small budget games allow for the creative types to be creative. Even companies like Sigil (with Microsoft) and Trion managed to receive huge funding without people telling them what to make.
Direct quote from Jacobs:
"Kickstarter is so important to the industry. Publishers are going under without new ones coming into play. It’s scary when publishers have all the power. Kickstarter and crowdfunding are going to be incredible tools for developers as long as we don’t screw it up. It’s the perfect weapon against publisher control. You see publishers doing things these days that they simply couldn’t get away with when the others were out there. If Kickstarter works, developers have a viable way of getting games done."
I don't really care why he's doing whatever he does.
All I know is what I want.
/shrug
I've backed it. I think it's a great project.
I have no problem with Mark Jacobs using Kickstarter for seed money so that he and his studio can have more creative independence in this project and not have to answer to a bunch of investors. In fact, I like the idea.
That, in fact, is why I backed it.
That is, in fact, meant to be the whole purpose of Kickstarter. Put things out there before people and see if they support them. Very interesting concept altogether, crowdfunding - will be interesting to see if it changes the industries it is beginning to affect.
I am mystified as to why anyone would think using Kickstarter is dishonest. Perhaps this person has had a bad experience with Kickstarter that has left him so concerned about everyone that he feels compelled to make these posts.
Also, a bit confused as to why Jacobs having "a smart business strategy" is some sort of negative thing. This in fact increases my confidence that the project will succeed.
And, it was clear to me that his purpose in doing the Kickstarter was to raise money...which was why I gave him my money, lol. It would be extremely silly to do a Kickstarter if you didn't want to raise money.
again, /shrug
How could you possibly know this?
Who is going to give millions of dollars to MJ for a game that isn't even expected to have more that 100k subs and make much money?
Sorry but you are just posting a bunch of inflamatory garbage to fill your desperate need for attention.
I don't know, sometimes I think this big uptrend in Kickstarter's for MMOs is not so that "publishers will stay out of the way and let the players truly have a voice in how the game is made."
but instead so that "publishers will stay out of the way and let the lead designer do whatever he/she wants with how the game is made."
I mean, people hate on publishers a lot, but they provide a lot of valuable data to the developers.
Publishers are there, by definition, to
1. Enable the developer to realize their vision (money)
2. Connect players to the developers (websites, marketing, shows, conferences, events, media coverage, ads, etc.)
3. Help reign in the bat-shit-crazy ideas and help developers measure player's wants/needs
The popular thing may not always be right or the best, (queue all the McDonalds and Brittney Spears comments), but it's common sense that to create X you need Y dollars and to get Y dollars you need Z number of players.
Sometimes the truly amazing and talented devs can create X without a whole lot of Y and still attract a lot of Z -
but how many truly amazing developers do you people REALLY think there are out there?
ESPECIALLY that make MMOs?
True there are times when creative freedom is given and I would say we overestimate how much decent is voiced from the higher ups but just look at this forum and how many of us gamers tell developers what there game should or shouldnt be. Now we can all be ignored for better or worse but when that person or company has the combo to the vault you can't just yeah yeah them and go about your vision.
What about it being funded by private investers like Rift? Or...DAoC? Or EvE?
And no matter how you get your money, you still need a publisher anyway. If the plan is to slef publish, then you wouldnt be looking for money from EA anyway.
No politics There, but yeah a financial idea.
*Sigh*
Ok, I would like you to tell me how doing this Kickstarter in any way differs from getting a publisher aside from the fact that the people donating are not a company.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!