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Evening Update April 22, 2013 (Building Part 2)
redcapp
Member Posts: 722
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/posts/461225?ref=activity
• Can be created from combined prefabs + cells.
• Sometimes allow players to hire NPC builders (builder/player is faster, better though) to complete them.
• Can be duplicated if permitted by creator.
• Allow construction to proceed faster if multiple players work off the same blueprint.
• Allow faster and easier reconstruct/repair.
• Can be rated with crafters’ blueprints having a higher rating and RvRers a lower rating.
• Can be sold/traded & discovered.
• Can be approved by the Realm.
• Can be used as a base and then decoration/decals can be applied.
• Al plot have permission levels.
• Players who capture a plot have to weigh the benefit of Salvage vs. Destroy vs. Capture.
• Crafters are better at salvaging, and they gain bonuses for deconstructing.
• Destroying a structure means less resources gained.
• RvRers can build simple constructs to help in RvR. They can also repair, but not as good as crafters but better than NPCs but not as close to skill of a crafter.
• All structures/prefabs have limited durability especially in RvR intensive areas.
• Supply Lines are an important part of RvR as well. Players need to keep the supply lines open as long as possible to allow materials to flow.
• The deeper players push into contested area, the better the rewards.
• Structures (such as keeps) can be built free form or from approved plans. Plans can be submitted to the realm for approval.
• Player can sacrifice structures to prevent them from falling into the hands of the enemy.
Very interesting stuff. Leaves me with a few questions though.
Loving the idea of renting blueprints. Also hauling goods sounds great. Would like clarification though as he makes it sound like mats will be droppable, which would be ideal. (Edit: I asked MJ on the comments section, no word yet on how exactly risk vs reward will come into play with supply transportation).
Crafters should like the idea of deconstruction. Gives them quite an active role in RvR.
Comments
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
Better resources for better weapons and buildings to help kill other realms more effectively.
Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Part of the reasoning is clearly related to controlling sources of limited resources, but he's hinted at more beneifits on top of that as well. Im guessing he'll go into it more as he discusses the RvR system in greater detail over the next week.
What if two groups capture a plot? How do you decide who gets it? Do you have to pay for access to the plot itself? How do you decide who gets to build where on a plot?
Blarg... The fundamental reasons why this is difficult to implement and why it can be easily exploitable still aren't being discussed.
He also talks about having to build devices to control veil storms that are housed in structures, etc.. Not much detail about that yet.
They fight for it I assume.
Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape
Two groups from the same realm...
duel for it
.. i vote musket style one bullet
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
It becomes realm controlled first potentially?
Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape
Ok. Assuming that's true, once it become realm controlled, who gets dibs on the property? Does it come down to whoever can spam right click the property and buy it up the fastest? Does one person pay for it and then dole out permissions as they see fit?
If this is the case, it opens itself up to not just griefing, but poor use of potentially extremely important plots. It seems like extrememly important details that are needed to actually make this work are missing from the update.
All depends on what exactly the benefits and the costs are, in DAOC you could claim a keep for a guild but it cost points a ton of them actually. People would give you fort if you could level it and maintain "FOR DA REALM". You also were expecte to notify other guilds when you got guard death spam etc. if the game community is your typical idiot level raiding dkp thing then game will die anyway.
There are two years of testing for working out every possible method of griefing and fixing any potential holes.
Im guessing the process of taking control from the enemy faction will be something like the guild/player that does the most to take control of the plot for the realm gets first dibs.
Gaining control isnt just going to just be an instant right-click process, that would make structures completely indefensible.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to say that you can walk up to an enemy structure and take it back by right clicking. I figure there will be some kind of objective involved in capturing enemy lands and keeps or whatever. It's at the point when you need to decide who in your realm gets to do what on the land that is captured that I am asking questions about. Who gets build rights and doles out permissions for this open world building system? How is it decided?
In your example, people that do the most (i assume damage or some other arbitrary set of stats) get dibbs on purchasing the land or whatever. What if a guild/player that does the most buys the land and decides that they don't want to hand out permissions to anyone? What if they don't have the resources to make the plot solid enough to help the cause? The infighting in the realm that could be caused by a system like this could be potentially disasterous.
It's really what that 2 years of testing will yield that I see as potentially being not nearly as good as what they are presenting here. To me, it looks like there are glaring holes in the system that require it to become considerably less sandbox and more structured in nature than what is being presented. It seems like more of a pie in the sky idea that may never actually exist in the form they are describing.
Features that involve building things in an open PvP world are difficult to implement in an MMORPG setting. For some reason, when they popped this up on Kickstarter, I thought the actual game design part would be more fleshed out than it actually ended up being. They have a vague direction that sounds fairly awesome, but the details are so incredibly important in a game like this. How are they going to solve the issues of past RvR games and the issues that arise from some of these pie in the sky ideas?
If they are too busy arguing, then that realm would probably end up losing that land. Its not like theres only going to be a couple plots to build on. But yes players within a realm are going to have to work cooperatively to get things done.
If the benefits for controlling something are good, the person who owns it isnt going to want to lose it. If they cant defend it themselves, then they could hire other members of their realm to help them out in exchange for portion of the profits made from that territory.
Really, pretty much all possible intra-realm issues are solved by allowing FFA PvP... but I'll wait to see how successful the game is before I start lobbying for an alternate rules server :P
A auction-type system might work in this scenario. That way, only people who really want the plot will be able to obtain the rights to it.
Also, I don't see why a majority of the player base for a realm wont want to help build for their realm. I undertand that this is the internet and MMOs we are talking about and they have a certain amout of trolls and "griefers", but if you're hurting your realm, you are helping the other ones, which in turn hurts you.
I guess I'm just a bit more optimistic when it comes to player interaction. I've been spoiled by LotRO.
Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape
Yeah, I do tend to be very pessimistic about how players will interact. I know that it somewhat clouds my perception. And I agree that LotRO does have a good community (along with DDO and GW2 as well IMO). I hope this thing gets funded so I get to see what they actually do with it to be honest. I'm just incredibly skeptical about this system turning out the way they are presenting it.
I think the basic system could work. There's only so much programming you can do to eliminate unfair or untoward player actions. There will be some rough edges, blurred lines, and infighting in this game, probably. Comes with the territory.
MMO's started really pandering to players right before WoW released. WoW took it to a dizzying height. To me, it also removed the player from the game. Now, you play interfaces, systems, and scripts. If you're gonna put the players back in the game, there will be some tough patches. Should be fun.
The only important thing about plots ownership is that it is owned by your realm. If two groups of the same realm begin to fight to control a plot it's just stupid.
Be friends, let one group control it, share permissions, and build your keep together
The system definitely needs some fleshing out, but I think the overall idea is great. Just having a pure crafter class and a Minecraft style crafting system could potentially draw in a crowd that wouldn't play a RvR game like CU.
Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape