I was always agains STEALING from internet i got all my games original from shop or some digital copys from steam/GOG
Im agains DRM and always online function but if all games become this and people whine its there own fault.
I 'll stick eventually to games that can play offline.
The Witcher 2 was pirated 5milluion+ times i hate thiefs and all who go torrent but thats how it is these days holland is WORSED when it come to illegally DL games/movies/music
I hate EA origin or Ubisoft for there DRM systems but pirates are couse of this.
Many small developers got banrupt of these assholes.
im not whining there is no demo, im stating a fact that there is no demo. also trusting a reviewer's PoV on a game is stupid as fk. thats the same as trusting a MMO's hype meter... i play games for MY enjoyment not because angry joe or TB love the game or the studio or they were paid to say its the best thing EVER!!!!!111
no whats hurting the market is not pirates. its the fact studios continue to push out garbageware for 59.99 while claiming its the best thing since sex while infact its as enjoyable as swimming in a septic tank.
i also buy several games a month IF they are worth it and i can afford it. sadly there is so much garbageware out there now i stick to indie titles like towns/gnomoria/ect
but funny thing... those small 1-5man indy teams... ACTUALLY put out a demo of their titles.. so oh look i didnt have to torrent them to try them out shocking i know
yet EA/maxis cant make demos for The sims or simcity lolololololol
demo = better chance of the game being bought
no demo = 1 of two things "a" pirating the title before buying it or "b" never touching the title and viewing all future titles from said company as junk.
case in point, they lose no money from me. as they wouldnt gain any money either. even if i dont torrent their title to demo it they wouldnt get a cent if i didnt view it as worth it. im not buying anymore crap games like i did with stronghold 3 or the sims 3...(And those were preorders/CE too...)
The demo is more often than not a poor represantation of the game than a good one. A game like SimCity (haven't played a SimCity since 2000 mind you) couldn't be fun in a demo because of the time and buildings that it takes to build a proper city. The fun part about SimCity is to build something from scratch that gets big, and since all mechanics gets gradually better from the beginning of one road to a buzzling city it's really not fun the first 20-40 minutes.
And let's be honest, you still have a ton of those games that you were just going to "try" before purchase that you've finished and never bought because "they weren't worth $60 dollar".
It also sounds like it is your fault that you pre-order games blindly instead of waiting for one week after release to hear what the general opinion is. Just go and listen to Total Biscuit's review instead.
Its a poor excuse for him to torrent the reason he give about demo's is lie he just know he can steal it without being cought thats why they do it they don't care if those developers go bankrupt:(
Developers dont go bankrupt because some people pirate games.
Normal gamers who usually buy games, won't just all of a sudden start pirating... It's a minority that pirate, the minority that will be bothered with downloading bad torrents, possibly downloading keyloggers and trojans or just broken games.. Most people choose just to buy the game, expecting everything to work.
If the developers just made quality games, they'd make millions in profit, but they don't, they deliver half baked shit games for high prices, then, when it only sells 100k copies and 20k people pirated it, they point their fingers at the pirates...
If they had sold 1m copies, the 20k pirates would have been irrelevant.
You can see this with games like grand theft auto, huge franchise, it gets pirated like crazy, but they still make tons of money.. It's always great GTA games, and they sell enough to not worry about the few of us who play for free.
I don't pirate games, but I can understand why some people feel like they have to. I just can't imagine pirating a game from an Indie developer. Those are the guys that need the money the most.
Developers dont go bankrupt because some people pirate games.
Normal gamers who usually buy games, won't just all of a sudden start pirating... It's a minority that pirate, the minority that will be bothered with downloading bad torrents, possibly downloading keyloggers and trojans or just broken games.. Most people choose just to buy the game, expecting everything to work.
If the developers just made quality games, they'd make millions in profit, but they don't, they deliver half baked shit games for high prices, then, when it only sells 100k copies and 20k people pirated it, they point their fingers at the pirates...
If they had sold 1m copies, the 20k pirates would have been irrelevant.
You can see this with games like grand theft auto, huge franchise, it gets pirated like crazy, but they still make tons of money.. It's always great GTA games, and they sell enough to not worry about the few of us who play for free.
You don't see GTA with always online DRM do ya?
And you are sure this is the same for giant game companys and small ones? no its not.
There is no reason to steal a game. What ever reason people say they have for torrenting a cracked gamed its just bullcrap. And there are no excuses, stealing is stealing. End of story.
But I do think what they did here is cute, maybe a little short sited. Alienating your customer base is never a good thing.
You have an interesting definition of "customer."
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I did find it humurous. It was an interesting approach, though equally by putting their copy out their they in turn fueled the piracy they complain about, given the number of complaints it would be feasible their copy would be the one circulating.
Though I must admit when anyone starts using pirated game figures as sales lost to the evil pirates I do start to lose sympathy. They imply that had the game not been pirated they would have sold that many units and that simply is not the case. Would they have made more sales without the piracy? Possibly, though equally it's also possible that they wouldn't have. The type of people that would pirate an indie game with a free trial wouldn't have likely purchased the game had they not pirated it. Also this has probably garnered the game more interest than it would have otherwise recieved as (like most reading here I would bet) I had never heard of either the game or dev team prior to this story.
As for pirating in general I find it hard to feel sorry for the games industry in general, DRM has over time became more invasive to prevent any pirating, yet the vast majority of the customer base don't pirate. As the DRM has become more invasive it has created more issues for legitimate customers and in many cases more problems than it ever caused to any potential pirates.
The games industry should be trying to address why people pirate and finding ways to make it less appealing by making their product easier to access instead however they opted to treat all their customers as potential thieves merely waiting for the opportunity (treat people like thieves and guess what... some will become thieves). One of the largest comical aspects of the games industry is that in their pursuit of DRM they have possibly created more pirates than would have otherwise existed by making piracy the easier option.
Games coverage by the media also needs to get it's act together, it's little more than advertising currently. I can understand the fear though that review mediums have of giving a bad review and being snubbed by future games company releases (effectively handicapping them in their market and giving their competition an advantage). However currently it reminds me of the scene from the Critic (old tv show)..
Duke 'Your job is to rate movies on a scale from good to excellent,'
Jay 'What if I don't like them?'
Duke 'Thats what good is for.'
Piracy is one of the 2 major things the game industry whine and complain about, the other major contender being the second hand games market. The industry needs to change and evolve with the times as every other industry has been forced to, yet the media industry truly believes it's the customers that should adapt to their business practices.
(I myself don't pirate, however I find it very hard to sympathise with the large companies who basically created this situation).
Originally posted by TheHavok I'm not going to lie, I use to torrent and pirate a ton of stuff when I was a teenager. But when I joined the workforce at age 18, I took pride in managing my money and buying things <span vk_bk"="">legitimately. I also just grew to hate the act of stealing - of cheating the system to get what you want. Yeah I know, things are expensive. Internet, phone, insurance, and all the other bills start adding up and you start to feel that you are being used by these major corporations. But, in terms of pirating games, music, and movies, why not support the things you love? Support the artist and the studio behind them. Support what gives you joy!
Originally posted by Ichmen meh i will continue to pirate games via torrents until such times as companies wise the fk up and actually provide a decent demo of the product the expect me to spend my cash on. i refuse to buy simcity 2013 until i have "demo"ed it to know its worth my time/money. honestly the only game companies that i have seen who complain the most about pirated software are typically ones like EA who never provide a demo of the product and expect people to buy it for hype/brand name/ or just because they like to rimjob the company CEOi find it ironic that game studios in the 90s like apogee could make a fortune on their games while releasing shareware of it yet now days with how fast the net is now.. we cant have a simple fking demo of The Sims or simcity or battlefield/cod 1234567890while i do not support piracy for the sake of pirating it, i do support pirating for the sake of testing it to see if its worth it. too many people pirate just to get out of paying for it period, which is where i disagree with it. BUT if there is no demo of the item no fking way will i drop $0.99-$1000 on it. QQ all you want at me for it, the only studio that i support as a diehard fan is Relic(cause they are local) and Old THQ (#nvr4get #cryevrytime)
May I ask if you then BUY the games you "try" and then enjoy?
To the OP: BRILLIANT!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Piracy isn't new, it has been around for ages in different forms. Recording music from the radio instead of buying the albums. Ruses to get something then bring it back for a refund having used said item for its purpose. Even buying food and sending it back to get it 'redone' just to have a those extra free bites.
It's human nature. We can argue this all week and it will still be what it is. It's stealing. Taking something for nothing that would otherwise cost something is stealing. No matter the argument one makes or the complaints they have about the 'industry' whether music, movie, or gaming.
You don't like what the 'industry' has become so you justify it by stealing their intellectual property, stating all kinds of excuses for it. 'Trying it out', "Those companies won't notice, they're too big' etc etc. That's how the world works at the moment.
I'm against piracy but I know it'll always be there in one form or another. I don't think less of any who do because there will always be ways for pirates to get what they want. I only look in the mirror and ask myself if that reflection makes me proud.
You all decide for yourselves what you want. If you have to justify to yourselves, then that's where you need to look inward and determine what needs doing.
As for the OP, I believe it's a smart attempt to deter piracy.
My view is that there is one legitimate reason to pirate games: if you did pay for a legal copy of the game and the developers got paid that way, but for whatever reason, you're unable to play the copy you already paid for. For example, if you lost the DVD, or if you bought a new computer that is incompatible with the original for some reason, such as not having a floppy drive. Or if, ironically enough, the legal version has such intrusive DRM that you can't get it to work, but the pirated version works fine.
I added some code to our commercial software ($200K a copy) to try to catch people who tried to cheat. It was locked to a specific machine, using a node ID. If they tried to hack the license file, our software would run about 1/2 of the way through, and then error out with an "Internal Error". The error code was the illegal machine id!
To me, pirating is a sign of the market failing, whichever it is that's been pirated from. If your software is easier or more appealing to torrent than it is to pay for, the individual company/developer/studio needs to find a more efficient way to push content to users, as quickly as possible, and most often adjust their standard for pricing into a much, much lower range. Spending more effort and resources creating DRM isn't really helping the situation for them, either, because it's not really preventing anyone from pirating anything at this point in time.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Originally posted by Lawlmonster To me, pirating is a sign of the market failing, whichever it is that's been pirated from. If your software is easier or more appealing to torrent than it is to pay for, the individual company/developer/studio needs to find a more efficient way to push content to users, as quickly as possible, and most often adjust their standard for pricing into a much, much lower range. Spending more effort and resources creating DRM isn't really helping the situation for them, either, because it's not really preventing anyone from pirating anything at this point in time.
So basically, if you can't create DRM so intrusive that it's cheaper to pay $50 than to find a pirated version for free, then you're not allowed to charge $50? Do you really want the entire world to be forced to go to always-online DRM?
Originally posted by Lawlmonster To me, pirating is a sign of the market failing, whichever it is that's been pirated from. If your software is easier or more appealing to torrent than it is to pay for, the individual company/developer/studio needs to find a more efficient way to push content to users, as quickly as possible, and most often adjust their standard for pricing into a much, much lower range. Spending more effort and resources creating DRM isn't really helping the situation for them, either, because it's not really preventing anyone from pirating anything at this point in time.
So basically, if you can't create DRM so intrusive that it's cheaper to pay $50 than to find a pirated version for free, then you're not allowed to charge $50? Do you really want the entire world to be forced to go to always-online DRM?
If I were in the business, I'd absolutely prefer the DRM solution to be always online. As a player of games, I'm not really excited about the idea, but it's a pretty instantaneous and permanent solution to the problem, isn't it?
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Originally posted by Lawlmonster To me, pirating is a sign of the market failing, whichever it is that's been pirated from. If your software is easier or more appealing to torrent than it is to pay for, the individual company/developer/studio needs to find a more efficient way to push content to users, as quickly as possible, and most often adjust their standard for pricing into a much, much lower range. Spending more effort and resources creating DRM isn't really helping the situation for them, either, because it's not really preventing anyone from pirating anything at this point in time.
It doesn't really matter what system/procedure you implement. There will always be people out there wanting it for nothing, and those willing to crack it. It will never change. This is not something new.
As simple as someone looting a store during a riot. If the consequences to commiting that act are low to non existent, some will invariably tempt fate.
Originally posted by Lawlmonster To me, pirating is a sign of the market failing, whichever it is that's been pirated from. If your software is easier or more appealing to torrent than it is to pay for, the individual company/developer/studio needs to find a more efficient way to push content to users, as quickly as possible, and most often adjust their standard for pricing into a much, much lower range. Spending more effort and resources creating DRM isn't really helping the situation for them, either, because it's not really preventing anyone from pirating anything at this point in time.
It doesn't really matter what system/procedure you implement. There will always be people out there wanting it for nothing, and those willing to crack it. It will never change. This is not something new.
As simple as someone looting a store during a riot. If the consequences to commiting that act are low to non existent, some will invariably tempt fate.
I think you're mostly correct, but price has far more to do with preventing pirating than I think you're giving credit.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Originally posted by Lawlmonster To me, pirating is a sign of the market failing, whichever it is that's been pirated from. If your software is easier or more appealing to torrent than it is to pay for, the individual company/developer/studio needs to find a more efficient way to push content to users, as quickly as possible, and most often adjust their standard for pricing into a much, much lower range. Spending more effort and resources creating DRM isn't really helping the situation for them, either, because it's not really preventing anyone from pirating anything at this point in time.
It doesn't really matter what system/procedure you implement. There will always be people out there wanting it for nothing, and those willing to crack it. It will never change. This is not something new.
As simple as someone looting a store during a riot. If the consequences to commiting that act are low to non existent, some will invariably tempt fate.
I think you're mostly correct, but price has far more to do with preventing pirating than I think you're giving credit.
Maybe for some, but generally the pirates and those that get the free booty (pun intended ) tend to do it because they can. Why pay for something when you can get it for free. Like that saying about getting cow milk for free etc.?
You may limit the amount who will but it will never go away. Why should it? It's too easy to stray and give in.
Originally posted by Warbs saw this post, checked out the games demo and have ended up making a purchase so they are actually gaining some sales from this xDgreat little game might i add
Same here! $7.99, I cannot resist
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
Good. I was going to post this but someone else did. Anyone that trivializes pirating show know about this.
Greenheart Games page
I'd hope this was an educational lesson for a lot of those pirates but after seeing the comments they were too dumb to realize the irony. -_-
I was always agains STEALING from internet i got all my games original from shop or some digital copys from steam/GOG
Im agains DRM and always online function but if all games become this and people whine its there own fault.
I 'll stick eventually to games that can play offline.
The Witcher 2 was pirated 5milluion+ times i hate thiefs and all who go torrent but thats how it is these days holland is WORSED when it come to illegally DL games/movies/music
I hate EA origin or Ubisoft for there DRM systems but pirates are couse of this.
Many small developers got banrupt of these assholes.
Its a poor excuse for him to torrent the reason he give about demo's is lie he just know he can steal it without being cought thats why they do it they don't care if those developers go bankrupt:(
Developers dont go bankrupt because some people pirate games.
Normal gamers who usually buy games, won't just all of a sudden start pirating... It's a minority that pirate, the minority that will be bothered with downloading bad torrents, possibly downloading keyloggers and trojans or just broken games.. Most people choose just to buy the game, expecting everything to work.
If the developers just made quality games, they'd make millions in profit, but they don't, they deliver half baked shit games for high prices, then, when it only sells 100k copies and 20k people pirated it, they point their fingers at the pirates...
If they had sold 1m copies, the 20k pirates would have been irrelevant.
You can see this with games like grand theft auto, huge franchise, it gets pirated like crazy, but they still make tons of money.. It's always great GTA games, and they sell enough to not worry about the few of us who play for free.
You don't see GTA with always online DRM do ya?
And you are sure this is the same for giant game companys and small ones? no its not.
There is no reason to steal a game. What ever reason people say they have for torrenting a cracked gamed its just bullcrap. And there are no excuses, stealing is stealing. End of story.
You have an interesting definition of "customer."
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I did find it humurous. It was an interesting approach, though equally by putting their copy out their they in turn fueled the piracy they complain about, given the number of complaints it would be feasible their copy would be the one circulating.
Though I must admit when anyone starts using pirated game figures as sales lost to the evil pirates I do start to lose sympathy. They imply that had the game not been pirated they would have sold that many units and that simply is not the case. Would they have made more sales without the piracy? Possibly, though equally it's also possible that they wouldn't have. The type of people that would pirate an indie game with a free trial wouldn't have likely purchased the game had they not pirated it. Also this has probably garnered the game more interest than it would have otherwise recieved as (like most reading here I would bet) I had never heard of either the game or dev team prior to this story.
As for pirating in general I find it hard to feel sorry for the games industry in general, DRM has over time became more invasive to prevent any pirating, yet the vast majority of the customer base don't pirate. As the DRM has become more invasive it has created more issues for legitimate customers and in many cases more problems than it ever caused to any potential pirates.
The games industry should be trying to address why people pirate and finding ways to make it less appealing by making their product easier to access instead however they opted to treat all their customers as potential thieves merely waiting for the opportunity (treat people like thieves and guess what... some will become thieves). One of the largest comical aspects of the games industry is that in their pursuit of DRM they have possibly created more pirates than would have otherwise existed by making piracy the easier option.
Games coverage by the media also needs to get it's act together, it's little more than advertising currently. I can understand the fear though that review mediums have of giving a bad review and being snubbed by future games company releases (effectively handicapping them in their market and giving their competition an advantage). However currently it reminds me of the scene from the Critic (old tv show)..
Duke 'Your job is to rate movies on a scale from good to excellent,'
Jay 'What if I don't like them?'
Duke 'Thats what good is for.'
Piracy is one of the 2 major things the game industry whine and complain about, the other major contender being the second hand games market. The industry needs to change and evolve with the times as every other industry has been forced to, yet the media industry truly believes it's the customers that should adapt to their business practices.
(I myself don't pirate, however I find it very hard to sympathise with the large companies who basically created this situation).
Well said sir.
To the OP:
BRILLIANT!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Piracy isn't new, it has been around for ages in different forms. Recording music from the radio instead of buying the albums. Ruses to get something then bring it back for a refund having used said item for its purpose. Even buying food and sending it back to get it 'redone' just to have a those extra free bites.
It's human nature. We can argue this all week and it will still be what it is. It's stealing. Taking something for nothing that would otherwise cost something is stealing. No matter the argument one makes or the complaints they have about the 'industry' whether music, movie, or gaming.
You don't like what the 'industry' has become so you justify it by stealing their intellectual property, stating all kinds of excuses for it. 'Trying it out', "Those companies won't notice, they're too big' etc etc. That's how the world works at the moment.
I'm against piracy but I know it'll always be there in one form or another. I don't think less of any who do because there will always be ways for pirates to get what they want. I only look in the mirror and ask myself if that reflection makes me proud.
You all decide for yourselves what you want. If you have to justify to yourselves, then that's where you need to look inward and determine what needs doing.
As for the OP, I believe it's a smart attempt to deter piracy.
I thought this was awesome and hilarious. +1 to Game Dev Tycoon!
I like it!
I added some code to our commercial software ($200K a copy) to try to catch people who tried to cheat. It was locked to a specific machine, using a node ID. If they tried to hack the license file, our software would run about 1/2 of the way through, and then error out with an "Internal Error". The error code was the illegal machine id!
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
So basically, if you can't create DRM so intrusive that it's cheaper to pay $50 than to find a pirated version for free, then you're not allowed to charge $50? Do you really want the entire world to be forced to go to always-online DRM?
If I were in the business, I'd absolutely prefer the DRM solution to be always online. As a player of games, I'm not really excited about the idea, but it's a pretty instantaneous and permanent solution to the problem, isn't it?
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
It doesn't really matter what system/procedure you implement. There will always be people out there wanting it for nothing, and those willing to crack it. It will never change. This is not something new.
As simple as someone looting a store during a riot. If the consequences to commiting that act are low to non existent, some will invariably tempt fate.
I think you're mostly correct, but price has far more to do with preventing pirating than I think you're giving credit.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Maybe for some, but generally the pirates and those that get the free booty (pun intended
) tend to do it because they can. Why pay for something when you can get it for free. Like that saying about getting cow milk for free etc.?
You may limit the amount who will but it will never go away. Why should it? It's too easy to stray and give in.
saw this post, checked out the games demo and have ended up making a purchase so they are actually gaining some sales from this xD
great little game might i add
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR