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Promising game ruined by P2W payment model
So I played through the first phase of the Eldevin beta and quickly grew to like the game. From a game-play point of view, Eldevin looks really promising, offering traditional browser MMORPG elements with modern features such as action bars and quest-based leveling.
Before the end of the beta, while testing the game and gathering information, I somehow always came to ignore one very important thing: the payment model. Only after the first phase of the beta ended did I come to wonder what type of a model was the game going to use, and so I looked up the right thread on the forums, where I found this:
Eldevin is a free to play game. Players can enjoy the game for free and the experience can be further enhanced by becoming a subscriber or with micro-transactions through our in-game store. You will be able to play through the entire game to the maximum level, access all areas, quests, crafting and events. You'll be able to experience the epic story, participate in all the group dungeons and engage in unlimited PvP (battlegrounds, arena and optional open world PvP areas)!
If you wish to support the game by becoming a subscriber (£4.99/€5.99/$7.49 per month) you will gain the supporter buff (+25% all experience and gold gains) which will be applied continually throughout your subscription period to all characters on your account. Additionally this will grant you 350 Bound Eldevin points per month, with a bonus increase of 25 per month of continuous subscription (up to a max of 1000 points per month).
The premium shop will sell potions that improve experience gain, convenience items, vanity gear, emotes, dances, pets and additional storage. We will not be selling crafted items, gear or gold in the premium shop.
All purchases in the premium shop require Eldevin Points, which can be bought at a rate of $1 per 100 Eldevin Points. These points will be unbound, and can be traded freely with other players. We also plan to add ways for players to earn Eldevin Points without making any purchases.
Now this information is extremely essential for people interested in the payment model the game uses, and after reading this, I quickly made my decision: I probably wouldn't be playing this game.
I am completely fine with sub fees, I am willing to pay money for content (expansion packs). But I am not willing to pay for increased drops/experience in a world where I compete in XP gains/the economy with the non-subscription players. I am also not willing to play a game that sells useful items (other than vanity) for real money.
I think the F2P side and the P2P side should be kept separate, on different servers, much like another browser game, RuneScape, did it. And essentially Hunted Cow Studios' decision to take the P2W route made my decision of not playing this game.
Its a shame, it really is, that the P2W model ruins otherwise promising games. Does anyone else feel the same in this case?
Comments
I can't disagree with you more.
Buying XP boosters is not a P2W system. Its something that speeds your leveling up. It doesnt make someone OP. There will NOT be any extremely powerful gear/items/buffs that you can only buy for Eldevin Points.
Everything with this game is F2P as you can explore the whole Eldevin World, dungeons, raids, instances etc. There is no extra content for sub fees or any other way someone puts money into this game.
The Premium Shop:
Offers what you qouted. Items that gives XP Boost to either your char. level or to a certain skill.
This together with the posibilty to trade Eldevin Points with others makes it accesable to everyone (even thou people who dont want to or cant buy eldevin points, will have to work little bit harder)
But if you are too lazy to spend a few more hours to get to max level and raise your skills in a game. Then this is clearly not for you.
I don't see how this is related to the issue.
I would be completely happy if the game didn't even have a F2P option myself, I would play it if it was subscription only. I am willing to pay money for content.
What I am not willing to pay for are things such as increased XP or money rates to advance faster than others.
The system Eldevin uses is precisely a pay-to-win system. The subscribers don't pay their sub because they get more content that way after seeing the free side of the game, they pay it to make their characters more powerful faster. And this is where my problem lies with the model Eldevin uses: I would personally not play a game with a system like this in place.
The Weekly Wizardry blog
It is still not a P2W system
You can dislike how they set it up as much as you want. But its still not a P2W system.
You pay to advance faster than others. This is precisely what pay-to-win is, and I cannot see what you think pay-to-win means if you don't consider the current system to be exactly that.
The Weekly Wizardry blog
P2W is when you can buy/acces stuff that F2P players cant get at all.
Reaching Max level faster than others doesnt give you stuff that they cant get. As soon as they get there too, they can use whatever you use.
If getting to max level the quickest is a P2W feature... then what benefit does it offer when everyone is at max level?
P2W usually means an advantage all the time... not just temporarily.
Eldevin is a free to play game. Players can enjoy the game for free and the experience can be further enhanced by becoming a subscriber or with micro-transactions through our in-game store. You will be able to play through the entire game to the maximum level, access all areas, quests, crafting and events. You'll be able to experience the epic story, participate in all the group dungeons and engage in unlimited PvP (battlegrounds, arena and optional open world PvP areas)! We are completely opposed to the concept of "pay2win".
As such if you wish to support the game by becoming a subscriber (£4.99/€5.99/$7.49 per month) you will increase your experience, reputation and gold gains, as well as credit you with a small amount of Eldevin points per month. Eldevin points can be used at the in-game shop. The in-game shop will sell vanity items, convenience items, storage space, character slots, alternative visual effects, cosmetic pets, emotes and dances.
Currently working around the clock on Eldevin
You pay to advance faster than others. This is precisely what pay-to-win is, and I cannot see what you think pay-to-win means if you don't consider the current system to be exactly that.
Somehow i understand the thread opener, but i dont agree. Pay-2-win for me is if the cash shop contains items (gear/pets/whatever) that make cashers much stronger than non-cashers.Ok eldevin cash shop has 20% xp booster. For me personaly this is only like a candy for people willing to spend some money on the game (what is important). Every halfway hardcore gamer will keep with that advantage. Besides, the cash shop curency will be tradeable to non paying players what alows them to access the features too. Im absolutely not afraid that in this game the $ will rule.
I recommend the opener to give this game a chance and see how it developes. I will do so and if i see that cash begins to rule ill quit myself. Till then ill enjoy the promising game model.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It is not a pay to win, it is more like help the old dudes with not much time to play to progress more fast, just it. (What I am really grateful, since I only play 1-2 hours a day nowadays).
Sincerely would really like more advantages for $$$ players (since nowadays I can afford, could not do so when were still a kid), but well, still prefer the dream of a balanced game.
Hope so can get in this game the feeling I had when playing UO or Runescape on it's start (still prefer rune 1 than that one from nowadays)
This is certainly NOT pay to win. Just stop and think for a second. You get to max level faster.There are people who actually play so much, they can get to max level faster than the people with the boost, so it offers no disadvantage whatsoever.
If you have ever played Conquer Online, that is a P2W all the way. There are the items that are called Dragonballs that can be bought via real money. These are a big item in the game that can be used for various things, but mostly to resell for more cash. However people sell items for these "dragon balls." SO some rich people buy loads of these things and buy the best gear, all because they have the money to buy gear and weapons.
It doesnt matter if you get to max level faster because like i said above, there are people that can reach it faster than players with that boost, because they play so damn much. If they are not receiving gear or weapons to offer this "advantage" it is not a P2W model.
I however, am not familiar with the game but by the way OP explained it, this game is not P2W solely on the basis of extra experience boost.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
If a temporary xp boost is 'pay to win,' then you might as well call anything and everything 'pay to win.'
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Arya Stark
it isn't related. its called an ad hominem attack and it is a flawed form of argumentation in that it ignores the actual points of an argument and goes after the person making the argument.
the way he responds to you makes me think he is either close to the game and its developers or is one.
i will add however, that i do not believe this system is p2w, unless you consider reaching max level 'winning' in an mmo.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
F2P which includes any form of P2W, be it the ability to monopolize goods faster, progress faster, gear up faster, is a form of instant gratification that frequently causes players who cannot keep up with the whale to grow jealous.
In contrast: P2P, everyone has the potential, but they have to prove their worth to earn their stripes.
No Easymode button, so to speak.
That is what P2W becomes, and F2P games developers have to think long and hard when deciding if the P2W mentality is worthwhile, as it will scare away many while it hopes to lure others.
so another I want a spending ceiling but the devs don't, this game is p2w thread ?
I always get a kick out of the " I'd gladly only spend $15 a month" argument.
True and on a few levels.
IF I work and spend 2-3 hours a day playing the game with a 20% bonus exp for paying, I still will not level faster then If I don't work and spend most of that 12 hours playing the game and not spending a dime on it.
Players that play the most still will always have the advantage which I think is the way its supposed to be.
OP has no clue what Pay to Win even is.
This is no where near pay to win at all.
Pretty much what anyone who knows what "Pay to Win" means will agree with. Why are people so worried about how others play their games? I understand real P2W mmos cause for concern. But, buying XP boosts is the last thing that is P2W lol. OP needs to google what P2W means.