If we're talking "most sandbox" then that's not a game at all. "Most sandbox" is things which are completely malleable like programming languages, clay, a canvas, or music.
The most sandbox games I'm aware of are Minecraft and Second Life, which are barely games (because they're so sandboxy.)
And then down a few tiers from that are EVE and Darkfall, which are actually fairly similar in magnitude of sandboxiness.
But if you're a gamer you're not really going for maximum sandbox. You're going for maximum fun, and sandbox-intensive game elements just happen to be part of how you have fun in a game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
TBH, Don't Starve is a far better sandbox than those two. Not MMO (not even multiplayer) but plenty of fun. Also considerably more sandboxy, given that you can manipulate the world. Although not quite as sandboxy as Minecraft (and WURM too, from what I understand.)
It's exactly the sort of gameplay-focused sandbox that sandbox games should be like.
It's very unlike the sort of timesink-intense sandbox MMORPGs that have crappy gameplay.
So I'm not sure what you're surprised about. I've frequently posted about how a gameplay-focused sandbox would be a blast. It's not a big surprise that Don't Starve is fun. It'd be even better as a small-scale multiplayer title actually (but considerably worse as an MMO.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Decent sandbox? Eve Online. I've heard nothing good about DF and all the rest are hardly worth mentioning. There are no "good sandboxes" at the moment that's for sure.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
It's exactly the sort of gameplay-focused sandbox that sandbox games should be like.
It's very unlike the sort of timesink-intense sandbox MMORPGs that have crappy gameplay.
So I'm not sure what you're surprised about. I've frequently posted about how a gameplay-focused sandbox would be a blast. It's not a big surprise that Don't Starve is fun. It'd be even better as a small-scale multiplayer title actually (but considerably worse as an MMO.)
i suppose you have a different version of Don't Starve than the one i played.
because calling what i played fun would be a big surprise.
I know I'm going to get a lot of hate, but I really wouldn't consider Darkfall a great sandbox. Maybe at the best it's ok. "Ok" isn't good enough for me though.
Originally posted by Quirhid I've heard nothing good about DF
funny that you have over 4000 posts, and yet, you apparently don't READ these forums.
Me too. Nothing good about DF, not enough to check it out anyway. I played the first one for a few days, not a lot but enought to know it wasn't for me.
I've heard it's changed but not better.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by Quirhid I've heard nothing good about DF
funny that you have over 4000 posts, and yet, you apparently don't READ these forums.
I think every "good" post I read about DF is counterbalanced by a healthy dose of caveats, excuses and acknowledgments of failure in various areas. I think a certain type of player really likes the concept of DF, I can't recall many saying it's good.
On the other hand there are many posts complaining about how half-arsed, bug-ridden, hackable, and generally toxic the game is.
The general vibe I get is that it's on a slightly higher rung than that awful awful "The War Z".
Originally posted by Deznts Not meaning to dis Darkfall. In my opinion it is NOT a decent sandbox option. It's either a theme park without any rides or a sandbox with no buckets or shovels.
i suppose you have a different version of Don't Starve than the one i played.
because calling what i played fun would be a big surprise.
Kind of depends on personal interest. The game keeps you scuttling about doing things, but it's very redundant in how it makes you ultimately go about doing it. For some people all they need is the activity.
EVE and Darkfall both live away from that scenario where a lot of time is spent kicking back waiting for things to build up. There might be more options or more sense of progress over long term, but it's also at a more lethargic pace that makes it harder to tolerate.
Makes it a situation where you either want the busy work or you want the big shiny things.
As far as sandbox elements I enjoy as it relates to all this, it's generally just the creative elements. Spore with Galactic Adventures is a good example in that while the basic gameplay wasn't that deep and was very easily shuffled through quickly, it was the toolkit that you could tinker with at any time that gave so much fun.
The ability to design planets, buildings, vehicles, creatures, items, and even interactive questlines to play through with narrative elements allowed me to come up with my own moments to experience and share with other Spore players.
So it's kind of a third element to sandbox play, the creative elements, that I end up preferring. I don't really see either Darkfall nor EVE to really be strong on those aspects, as it's reliant on things remaining static on some level.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Originally posted by Quirhid Decent sandbox? Eve Online. I've heard nothing good about DF and all the rest are hardly worth mentioning. There are no "good sandboxes" at the moment that's for sure.
That's the problem with taking people's word for things and not trying them for yourself. Most people on the forums hate it (and haven't played it), most people in the game love it.
Originally posted by Deznts Not meaning to dis Darkfall. In my opinion it is NOT a decent sandbox option. It's either a theme park without any rides or a sandbox with no buckets or shovels.
Don't want to diz you but "digging" is an actual gathering profession where you use a shovel to get certain resources [mod edit]
i suppose you have a different version of Don't Starve than the one i played.
because calling what i played fun would be a big surprise.
Survival- and gameplay-focused sandbox games with a good sense of pacing, exploration, and discovery, and a fantastic art style aren't for everyone I suppose.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Kind of depends on personal interest. The game keeps you scuttling about doing things, but it's very redundant in how it makes you ultimately go about doing it. For some people all they need is the activity.
EVE and Darkfall both live away from that scenario where a lot of time is spent kicking back waiting for things to build up. There might be more options or more sense of progress over long term, but it's also at a more lethargic pace that makes it harder to tolerate.
Makes it a situation where you either want the busy work or you want the big shiny things.
As far as sandbox elements I enjoy as it relates to all this, it's generally just the creative elements. Spore with Galactic Adventures is a good example in that while the basic gameplay wasn't that deep and was very easily shuffled through quickly, it was the toolkit that you could tinker with at any time that gave so much fun.
The ability to design planets, buildings, vehicles, creatures, items, and even interactive questlines to play through with narrative elements allowed me to come up with my own moments to experience and share with other Spore players.
So it's kind of a third element to sandbox play, the creative elements, that I end up preferring. I don't really see either Darkfall nor EVE to really be strong on those aspects, as it's reliant on things remaining static on some level.
EVE and Darkfall involve some small amount of strategic planning with a ton of waiting.
Don't Starve involves similar planning, along with plenty of discovery, and tons of execution of your plans (where the quality of your execution determines how efficient and successful you'll be.) Which provides more opportunity for player skill and game interaction, which just makes it a better overall game.
Pretty big difference. But some players like to sit back and wait and make decisions only rarely.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The horizon looks pretty empty as well. Origins of Malu might have some potential but it's probably a good ways off from release and it doesn't seem to have any big budget backing.
Earthrise is still a box with no sand judging by the official descriptions I've read.
Archeage might work for those with a high tolerance for getting ganked (I have zero these days so I'll give that one a miss).
I did try the original DF. It wasn't getting ganked that bothered me because by then there weren't many players. It was once again a lack of real sand in the box. Especially for a solo player. Same problem with EVE. It's a sandbox all right, but not fun to roam alone in, not because of being ganked (I played two months and never got blown up by another player) but because what is there for a solo player to really do?
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Originally posted by Quirhid I've heard nothing good about DF
funny that you have over 4000 posts, and yet, you apparently don't READ these forums.
I think every "good" post I read about DF is counterbalanced by a healthy dose of caveats, excuses and acknowledgments of failure in various areas. I think a certain type of player really likes the concept of DF, I can't recall many saying it's good.
On the other hand there are many posts complaining about how half-arsed, bug-ridden, hackable, and generally toxic the game is.
The general vibe I get is that it's on a slightly higher rung than that awful awful "The War Z".
If all you go on is developer communication/honesty and community sentiment then yes it's a bit higher than the war z. If you judge it based on gameplay (meaning core game idea and implementation), then the 2 aren't even comparable. DFUW is one of the best mmo's I"ve ever played.
The lack of DF:UW subscribers will cement my position. Stay tuned for the truth to be revealed to you.
Er, the lack of DF subscribers cements the real reasons the game failed: an unpopular premise, weak gameplay, and weak advertising.
It's completely illogical to suggest it cements your position that it's not a "complete sandbox".
Kid in sandbox insists it's not a sandbox unless it has pails and shovels.
The sandbox is located on a remote mountain.
"The lack of other kids proves my position." -Kid
"Uh, no, the fact that you're in some remote goddamn mountain is why there aren't kids. A few shovels will make it more attractive, but there are much bigger influencers at stake." -Logic
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
HOWEVER if you're willing to go into the browser space, especially empire building you'll open yourself up to all sorts of interesting.
Give examples?
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
DF used to be somewhat of a sandbox but is way off the mark with it now, it is nothing more than an open world ffa pvp game and that does not even come close to being a sandbox, but in the end this thread is stupid really as everyone has there own opinion.
What it actually proves is that people nowadays are lazy and over demanding about mmo's. The premise and gameplay for dfuw are incredible. Unfortunately the community gets bent out of shape about the dev's lack of communication or annoyances with the UI or other things that make up about 1% of the actual gaming experience.
The fact is that there are no doubt thousands of players who will simply never play dfuw because of the toxic community, not because of anything related to the game.
Comments
Whoa whoa whoa, people.
If we're talking "most sandbox" then that's not a game at all. "Most sandbox" is things which are completely malleable like programming languages, clay, a canvas, or music.
The most sandbox games I'm aware of are Minecraft and Second Life, which are barely games (because they're so sandboxy.)
And then down a few tiers from that are EVE and Darkfall, which are actually fairly similar in magnitude of sandboxiness.
But if you're a gamer you're not really going for maximum sandbox. You're going for maximum fun, and sandbox-intensive game elements just happen to be part of how you have fun in a game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
wow, after all your game design rants,
you're actually gonna recommend Don't Starve.
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It's exactly the sort of gameplay-focused sandbox that sandbox games should be like.
It's very unlike the sort of timesink-intense sandbox MMORPGs that have crappy gameplay.
So I'm not sure what you're surprised about. I've frequently posted about how a gameplay-focused sandbox would be a blast. It's not a big surprise that Don't Starve is fun. It'd be even better as a small-scale multiplayer title actually (but considerably worse as an MMO.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
funny that you have over 4000 posts, and yet, you apparently don't READ these forums.
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i suppose you have a different version of Don't Starve than the one i played.
because calling what i played fun would be a big surprise.
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Smile
Me too. Nothing good about DF, not enough to check it out anyway. I played the first one for a few days, not a lot but enought to know it wasn't for me.
I've heard it's changed but not better.
I think every "good" post I read about DF is counterbalanced by a healthy dose of caveats, excuses and acknowledgments of failure in various areas. I think a certain type of player really likes the concept of DF, I can't recall many saying it's good.
On the other hand there are many posts complaining about how half-arsed, bug-ridden, hackable, and generally toxic the game is.
The general vibe I get is that it's on a slightly higher rung than that awful awful "The War Z".
Lolz. I feel like a child at the beach again.
Kind of depends on personal interest. The game keeps you scuttling about doing things, but it's very redundant in how it makes you ultimately go about doing it. For some people all they need is the activity.
EVE and Darkfall both live away from that scenario where a lot of time is spent kicking back waiting for things to build up. There might be more options or more sense of progress over long term, but it's also at a more lethargic pace that makes it harder to tolerate.
Makes it a situation where you either want the busy work or you want the big shiny things.
As far as sandbox elements I enjoy as it relates to all this, it's generally just the creative elements. Spore with Galactic Adventures is a good example in that while the basic gameplay wasn't that deep and was very easily shuffled through quickly, it was the toolkit that you could tinker with at any time that gave so much fun.
The ability to design planets, buildings, vehicles, creatures, items, and even interactive questlines to play through with narrative elements allowed me to come up with my own moments to experience and share with other Spore players.
So it's kind of a third element to sandbox play, the creative elements, that I end up preferring. I don't really see either Darkfall nor EVE to really be strong on those aspects, as it's reliant on things remaining static on some level.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
That's the problem with taking people's word for things and not trying them for yourself. Most people on the forums hate it (and haven't played it), most people in the game love it.
Don't want to diz you but "digging" is an actual gathering profession where you use a shovel to get certain resources [mod edit]
https://www.facebook.com/FUtilez ||| https://twitter.com/FUtilez ||| https://www.youtube.com/futilezguild
Survival- and gameplay-focused sandbox games with a good sense of pacing, exploration, and discovery, and a fantastic art style aren't for everyone I suppose.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
EVE and Darkfall involve some small amount of strategic planning with a ton of waiting.
Don't Starve involves similar planning, along with plenty of discovery, and tons of execution of your plans (where the quality of your execution determines how efficient and successful you'll be.) Which provides more opportunity for player skill and game interaction, which just makes it a better overall game.
Pretty big difference. But some players like to sit back and wait and make decisions only rarely.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The lack of DF:UW subscribers will cement my position. Stay tuned for the truth to be revealed to you.
The horizon looks pretty empty as well. Origins of Malu might have some potential but it's probably a good ways off from release and it doesn't seem to have any big budget backing.
Earthrise is still a box with no sand judging by the official descriptions I've read.
Archeage might work for those with a high tolerance for getting ganked (I have zero these days so I'll give that one a miss).
I did try the original DF. It wasn't getting ganked that bothered me because by then there weren't many players. It was once again a lack of real sand in the box. Especially for a solo player. Same problem with EVE. It's a sandbox all right, but not fun to roam alone in, not because of being ganked (I played two months and never got blown up by another player) but because what is there for a solo player to really do?
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
If all you go on is developer communication/honesty and community sentiment then yes it's a bit higher than the war z. If you judge it based on gameplay (meaning core game idea and implementation), then the 2 aren't even comparable. DFUW is one of the best mmo's I"ve ever played.
Er, the lack of DF subscribers cements the real reasons the game failed: an unpopular premise, weak gameplay, and weak advertising.
It's completely illogical to suggest it cements your position that it's not a "complete sandbox".
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Give examples?
What it actually proves is that people nowadays are lazy and over demanding about mmo's. The premise and gameplay for dfuw are incredible. Unfortunately the community gets bent out of shape about the dev's lack of communication or annoyances with the UI or other things that make up about 1% of the actual gaming experience.
The fact is that there are no doubt thousands of players who will simply never play dfuw because of the toxic community, not because of anything related to the game.