I guess it doesn't surprise me but it does make me a bit sad If SWTOR proved you can't maintain a sub only game by throwing gobs of cash at the problem then Rift proves that you also cannot maintain a sub only game by having a high quality game with constant updates. While it is too much to say that subscriptions are dead I might finally agree that sub only genuinely is over.
WoW? even that titanic is steadily loosing subs. Only difference there is that she is so big that she can afford to keep sinking for several years yet before its time to get to the lifeboats. I think Blizzard is too busy working on titan to care about WoW shrinking. They knew it would happen sooner or later.
EVE will probably be the only other one to stay primarily sub based but EVE has always been a strange bird and PLEX puts it into a weird category where you can eventually, kinda play for free if you are good at making ISK but ultimately everything for them still runs off of game time. But I think that works for EVE in a way that other games don't. Virtually everything in EVE is time constrained so time based access to the game is really woven into its DNA.
But I still walk away wondering one thing. The only remaining sub based game that is still actually growing its numbers, no matter how slowly, is also arguably the most successful sandbox ever, that being EVE. I wonder what will happen with the incoming wave of new sandbox titles that are on the way? Will the demise of P2P impact sandbox or will sandbox impact game pay models? Probably both.
Bit amazed honestly. I had a feeling with how the market was but just didn't think it would happen so suddenly.
What is more amazing is its an actual Western MMO that currently it doesn't sound like it has crazy restrictions. It sounds... almost like a Eastern game in how Free the game will be to play. Not too surprising considering its Trion, though considering the fact they do a lot of work in updates I'm still surprised they didn't go for a more freemium focused model.
If you didn't try rift, particularly if you like the old school Everquest/WoW raiding, you probably should give this game a shot once it goes F2P. Its a game I really did enjoy a lot being an old WoW raider back when it didn't suck, and they have shown great potential with making amazing raids such as hammerknell (highly recomend watching videos of that place, its one of the best raids I've seen in an MMO).
But then I digress before I sound too fanboi like. It isn't action combat so if your looking for that you won't find it, granted some speccs can be very difficult to pull off which can add into the feel of combat. Over-all SL has made some elements a bit more dragged out, but its not too bad considering PA (Alternate leveling like from EQ) gives you the feeling of progression. Only iffy thing I have is restricting the certain classes unless you have SL, considering the fact as a warrior Tempest is pretty much NEEDED on some fights else your going to be just flopping around.
Originally posted by Epicent I really dont think free to play means a company is failing anymore. Star Wars seems to be recovering quite nicely and honestly if Rifts going free to play I may have found me a new home.
I'm pretty sure SWTOR hasn't made that 200 million initial investment back yet.
Originally posted by Guitarbry Another major push towards more f2p crap, this is a major shame. Mmos are becoming more watered down by the year and p2p is always the fairest model. Wish the thick majority would realise that f2p always costs more if you want to get anywhere. Very disappointed is all I can say.
I don't see TERA players complaining about not being able to get anywhere without the cash shop. Free games may be known as pay to win (and I don't mean in the way that people like to throw around the term without knowing the definition) but more games are slowly becoming smart about how to run a cash shop.
There goes the neighborhood. The F2P kiddies and gold spam bots will ruin another great game. Time to find another game to play.
Every MMORPG is AWESOME, until it's released! I don't want a game so much as I want a WORLD! -- o·pin·ion noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. 2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
I finally unsubbed like 3 days ago because I am short on money and there are a lot of F2P options out there. It looks like I will be back playing Rift in just a few more days! This is an absolutely fantastic game and what it lacks in making a strong first impression with its sort of generic looking world, it makes up for in polish and constant updates. Trion is my favorite dev right now because of the speed of updates and how they listen to their customers so closely.
Here is what I am hoping for with F2P:
1) Huge influx of players.
2) More ganking.
3) More people buying and selling.
4) More people out questing.
Here is what will most likely come along for the ride:
1) More chat trolling and anti-social F2P kiddies.
Don't forget worthless BRs who can't play a game worth shit most of the time, hell they couldn't save themselves from a wet paper bag in a game.
I also pray to the goddess that they ip block BRs (brasillians) from playing the game, or else it is going to go to hell, they are just parasites in f2p games that never, ever support it. In f2p games, most of the time when we end up with an idiot on the team its a BR over 80% of the time.
I also dislike how they don't say that people who own the game can get all wardrobe/role slots by using plat, they are going to be sold in the cash-shop, and they did say any you have will stay there, but I am worried for making new chars that I am going to get stuck buying these in the cash shop.
The Great items also better not allow faster entrance to raid content or else your going to piss alot of the old playerbase off, and that will defently feel pay2win to some.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
last i played it was on its released date (a week). years ago.
If you left because the leveling process was a bore, then you'll prob leave again. I left for the same reason a week into launch and just resubbed only to play a couple hours and leave again
Trion's last two projects, the scrapped End of Nations RTS, and the disappointing, technical nightmare, 3rd person shooter Defiance, makes me question was Trion even a good company at all, or where the just great copy pasters riding the success of Blizzard.
I don't expect to see any mmorpgs from Trion any time soon, if ever. If Arche Age fails we maybe reading about Trion closing it's doors within the next 2 years.
after playing the Defiance beta for days i must say you're absolutely right!
never got to try Rift cause at the time it came out i was pretty happy with WoW and GW1..
I called this about 3 months ago when i logged in to play for a month and there were only 6 or so shards left up. When I first played Rift they had at least 10x that running. Then I played and they merged the factions so now Defiant and Guardians share everything.... Guilds, dungeons, raids, PvP and even toilet paper (j/k on that one). To me that was just an attempt to hide that drop in active players. Unless they un-merge the factions sharing things and get back to the conflict of the factions I will stay away even with f2p. A broken game is still not worth my time even if my pocket is full.
At least they are maintaining a subscription feature. Otherwise there would be a mass exodus of the players that make the community one of the best in current theme park mmo gaming.
At least they are maintaining a subscription feature. Otherwise there would be a mass exodus of the players that make the community one of the best in current theme park mmo gaming.
I love great faction vs faction conflict.Thats why I game.Last I checked RIFT faction vs faction conflict was simply awful.Until the features I i want are in the game and well done....I'm not interested.
I never liked Rift, played it and gave it a shot. This was rumored to have been happening a few months back, however the reason then was different than the reason given today.
Didn't really enjoy the beta of this game but it has been a while, when it goes F2P I'll give it another try. That is the power of F2P, a game that I would have never tried or played again I will give another shot. That is a second chance of me being a customer and with the often troubled launches of MMO's they need it. I have tried and paid for and enjoyed more games as they have gone F2P then I would have ever seen when they were all subs. Its a win for me and a win for them.
Nice to see subs disappearing everywhere, I think the old sub only pay model is pretty much done for good at this point and I for one welcome that. Any new game at this point that does not have some hybrid payment model will either switch quickly or die. Anyways hope you make the best of this second chance Rift.
F2P isnt a solution its a bandaid to fix the main overall issue of all newer games.
Lack of content
waste of time on story and fluff instead of features and creativity
mazes instead of worlds
lack of a good crafting and business aspect
poor fighting mechanics
turning true and epic mmorpgs into console based rpgs
hand holding and easy content instead of making players earn their stuff
loot based system over a good player based economy
removing most all social aspects from a rpg
and so much more......
You cant expect people to pay for wow clones and cookie cutters. Most games today are the exact same thing with new skins. Its seems eye candy and cut scenes are what mmorpgs are about today. Its sickening. Ill pay top dollar for a game that just sucks me into game and keeps me content for a loooong time. But no we get games were you can hit max level in 3 days and forced to grind over and over on dailies, raids, and warzones as content.
Yep. That's the real problem right there.
People keep wanting to say "subs are a bad revenue model", but that's not the problem. They're speaking from ignorance.
MMOs with subs didn't survive for 10+ years - some still running (with subs) over a decade after they launched - because "subs are a flawed system".
They've survived, even thrived, because they were designed as long-term hobbies, not the short term, "get to level cap, finish end game, get bored and quit" ordeals they've become.
The way MMOs are designed these days are completely ass-backwards to what a subscription-based game needs to survive - plenty of well-paced content to do over a long period. You can't allow people to race through your game in less than a month, get to level cap, finish all the end-game content, and then expect them to hang around to pay for the next month. But that's what's happening. Developers are trying to develop sub-based MMOs in a way that's completely at odds with the revenue model. Sub-based MMOs thrive on longevity, not the short-term "burn and bury", "mmo-hopping" approach many gamers have these days.
Subs are just as viable now as they've ever been. People like to ignore this detail, but P2P MMOs that go F2P don't get rid of subs. They keep them as an option. They keep them as an option because there's still a significant number of people who prefer to pay a flat sub fee over dealing with the limitations imposed by cash shop-driven games. Subs are still perfectly viable.
In fact, I would argue that it's because subscriptions are still an option that developers don't have to go heavy-handed on the Cash Shop. It's why they can avoid having to sell power, etc. They're not relying entirely on the cash shop to keep the lights on.
On the other hand, look at Lineage 2 and its so-called "Truly Free" setup. It has no subscription option; no consistent source of monthly revenue. Consequently, NCSoft has to be more heavy-handed with their cash shop, blatantly selling power, etc.
I think the F2P/Sub hybrid is the best compromise we could have now. I'm playing TERA, but I'm an 'Elite' member, paying a monthly fee. Why? Because I don't like dealing with cash-shop driven limitations, whatever they be. I'm paying my sub, I'm supporting the game, I'm getting more benefits for it, and I don't have to deal with the cash shop. I couldn't even tell you what they're selling in it. Perfect setup for me.
And when i created a thread about the condition of the game asking if it is really dying out as to the point trion has to giveaway free copy of expansion and game and 30 day game time, i was told the game is rocking. well this interview proves my suspicion.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
And another one bites the dust... Games is under performing and it needs f2p to milk whatever it can before it officially dies. Sound familiar ? Perhaps more like a growing trend because the devs that make these mmos today are not worthy of a subscription.
Originally posted by GetzMango There goes the neighborhood. The F2P kiddies and gold spam bots will ruin another great game. Time to find another game to play.
My thoughts exactly. Sad too many do not realize that no game is truly free to play.
It won't matter what they do, the game is still stupid easy. Back when it went live, I played for about 100 hrs before I had beaten most of the content then, that is way to easy to run basically their entire game at launch. Even f2p players are going to get super bored with it and quit.
Comments
I guess it doesn't surprise me but it does make me a bit sad If SWTOR proved you can't maintain a sub only game by throwing gobs of cash at the problem then Rift proves that you also cannot maintain a sub only game by having a high quality game with constant updates. While it is too much to say that subscriptions are dead I might finally agree that sub only genuinely is over.
WoW? even that titanic is steadily loosing subs. Only difference there is that she is so big that she can afford to keep sinking for several years yet before its time to get to the lifeboats. I think Blizzard is too busy working on titan to care about WoW shrinking. They knew it would happen sooner or later.
EVE will probably be the only other one to stay primarily sub based but EVE has always been a strange bird and PLEX puts it into a weird category where you can eventually, kinda play for free if you are good at making ISK but ultimately everything for them still runs off of game time. But I think that works for EVE in a way that other games don't. Virtually everything in EVE is time constrained so time based access to the game is really woven into its DNA.
But I still walk away wondering one thing. The only remaining sub based game that is still actually growing its numbers, no matter how slowly, is also arguably the most successful sandbox ever, that being EVE. I wonder what will happen with the incoming wave of new sandbox titles that are on the way? Will the demise of P2P impact sandbox or will sandbox impact game pay models? Probably both.
All die, so die well.
Bit amazed honestly. I had a feeling with how the market was but just didn't think it would happen so suddenly.
What is more amazing is its an actual Western MMO that currently it doesn't sound like it has crazy restrictions. It sounds... almost like a Eastern game in how Free the game will be to play. Not too surprising considering its Trion, though considering the fact they do a lot of work in updates I'm still surprised they didn't go for a more freemium focused model.
If you didn't try rift, particularly if you like the old school Everquest/WoW raiding, you probably should give this game a shot once it goes F2P. Its a game I really did enjoy a lot being an old WoW raider back when it didn't suck, and they have shown great potential with making amazing raids such as hammerknell (highly recomend watching videos of that place, its one of the best raids I've seen in an MMO).
But then I digress before I sound too fanboi like. It isn't action combat so if your looking for that you won't find it, granted some speccs can be very difficult to pull off which can add into the feel of combat. Over-all SL has made some elements a bit more dragged out, but its not too bad considering PA (Alternate leveling like from EQ) gives you the feeling of progression. Only iffy thing I have is restricting the certain classes unless you have SL, considering the fact as a warrior Tempest is pretty much NEEDED on some fights else your going to be just flopping around.
I'm pretty sure SWTOR hasn't made that 200 million initial investment back yet.
I don't see TERA players complaining about not being able to get anywhere without the cash shop. Free games may be known as pay to win (and I don't mean in the way that people like to throw around the term without knowing the definition) but more games are slowly becoming smart about how to run a cash shop.
Have link?I am interesting in this data
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Every MMORPG is AWESOME, until it's released!
I don't want a game so much as I want a WORLD!
--
o·pin·ion noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
Don't forget worthless BRs who can't play a game worth shit most of the time, hell they couldn't save themselves from a wet paper bag in a game.
I also pray to the goddess that they ip block BRs (brasillians) from playing the game, or else it is going to go to hell, they are just parasites in f2p games that never, ever support it. In f2p games, most of the time when we end up with an idiot on the team its a BR over 80% of the time.
I also dislike how they don't say that people who own the game can get all wardrobe/role slots by using plat, they are going to be sold in the cash-shop, and they did say any you have will stay there, but I am worried for making new chars that I am going to get stuck buying these in the cash shop.
The Great items also better not allow faster entrance to raid content or else your going to piss alot of the old playerbase off, and that will defently feel pay2win to some.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
If you left because the leveling process was a bore, then you'll prob leave again. I left for the same reason a week into launch and just resubbed only to play a couple hours and leave again
after playing the Defiance beta for days i must say you're absolutely right!
never got to try Rift cause at the time it came out i was pretty happy with WoW and GW1..
How so?
AoC, LotRO, CO, DCUO, EQ2, EQ, VG, SWtOR, Tera, etc.
Seems like the industry has already been shaken like a snow globe and rift is just one of the last flakes to settle.
Didn't really enjoy the beta of this game but it has been a while, when it goes F2P I'll give it another try. That is the power of F2P, a game that I would have never tried or played again I will give another shot. That is a second chance of me being a customer and with the often troubled launches of MMO's they need it. I have tried and paid for and enjoyed more games as they have gone F2P then I would have ever seen when they were all subs. Its a win for me and a win for them.
Nice to see subs disappearing everywhere, I think the old sub only pay model is pretty much done for good at this point and I for one welcome that. Any new game at this point that does not have some hybrid payment model will either switch quickly or die. Anyways hope you make the best of this second chance Rift.
Yep. That's the real problem right there.
People keep wanting to say "subs are a bad revenue model", but that's not the problem. They're speaking from ignorance.
MMOs with subs didn't survive for 10+ years - some still running (with subs) over a decade after they launched - because "subs are a flawed system".
They've survived, even thrived, because they were designed as long-term hobbies, not the short term, "get to level cap, finish end game, get bored and quit" ordeals they've become.
The way MMOs are designed these days are completely ass-backwards to what a subscription-based game needs to survive - plenty of well-paced content to do over a long period. You can't allow people to race through your game in less than a month, get to level cap, finish all the end-game content, and then expect them to hang around to pay for the next month. But that's what's happening. Developers are trying to develop sub-based MMOs in a way that's completely at odds with the revenue model. Sub-based MMOs thrive on longevity, not the short-term "burn and bury", "mmo-hopping" approach many gamers have these days.
Subs are just as viable now as they've ever been. People like to ignore this detail, but P2P MMOs that go F2P don't get rid of subs. They keep them as an option. They keep them as an option because there's still a significant number of people who prefer to pay a flat sub fee over dealing with the limitations imposed by cash shop-driven games. Subs are still perfectly viable.
In fact, I would argue that it's because subscriptions are still an option that developers don't have to go heavy-handed on the Cash Shop. It's why they can avoid having to sell power, etc. They're not relying entirely on the cash shop to keep the lights on.
On the other hand, look at Lineage 2 and its so-called "Truly Free" setup. It has no subscription option; no consistent source of monthly revenue. Consequently, NCSoft has to be more heavy-handed with their cash shop, blatantly selling power, etc.
I think the F2P/Sub hybrid is the best compromise we could have now. I'm playing TERA, but I'm an 'Elite' member, paying a monthly fee. Why? Because I don't like dealing with cash-shop driven limitations, whatever they be. I'm paying my sub, I'm supporting the game, I'm getting more benefits for it, and I don't have to deal with the cash shop. I couldn't even tell you what they're selling in it. Perfect setup for me.
SUP
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
My thoughts exactly. Sad too many do not realize that no game is truly free to play.