If an mmo comes out that is worthy of a sub then i would gladly pay one, the problem is that no mmo on the market is worth paying 15.99 for when i can get the same thing for free. subscription mmo or free to play mmo in the end you are doing the same bloody thing. if mmo's want to be worthy of a 15.99 monthly sub then they need to introduce more revolutionary ideas.
Subs respect the game a bit more due to their being invested in it, imo. That's all i have to say about that.
Now, the problem with failing subscription games is not the fee. It's the game. These companies keep pumping out recycled garbage games looking to cash in. I would gladly pay a sub fee for a game that was well made. I'll pay a premium fee for a premium game.
I have noticed that as more games go F2P there are more asshats around than ever before. Even my favorite shooter (CounterStrike) is so jacked up with hackers these days its no fun to play. I see more and more hacking and more punk-ass kids talking trash in chat and greifing guilds popping up.
Do you think a rated M game with say a $25. a mo. sub fee would curb these losers ? Would you pay that a month to be in a better more mature community ? I would probably pay more to be honest with you but I have $$ to burn.
What do you think ?
EDIT : after learning about the EQ Legacy server I believe that would be the answer if done right.
Possibly a more expensive server that offers things like player housing and other community driven items.
Not a new game but a new server.
Sorry - You will have MORE asshats with subs than without. Why? Because they have paid to play so they feel ENTITLED to do whatever they want. sub games are coming to a close.
Being an asshole has no financial barrier. Assholes are not confined to a particular salary, and as such, a subscription model would do little to thwart them...you would just have assholes making similar salaries and with similar motivations.
The best thing to do in a game is to provide as few opportunities for people to be assholes to each other as possible.
We are not talking about assholes only. But subs keeps away people who dont take game seriously. These people just troll most of the time, etc. Subs is small fee but it keeps some percentage of unwanted players, thats the truth.
I'd rather play with the people who don't take games too seriously.
If this worked, and they effectively policed cheaters/dupers/hackers, I would rather play without them in my game.
I still reject the entire premise of this thread - systematically culling people from a game is an entirely backwards attitude to building better communities, especially in an MMO where diversity and characters and playstyles is elemenetal.
I have noticed that as more games go F2P there are more asshats around than ever before. Even my favorite shooter (CounterStrike) is so jacked up with hackers these days its no fun to play. I see more and more hacking and more punk-ass kids talking trash in chat and greifing guilds popping up.
Do you think a rated M game with say a $25. a mo. sub fee would curb these losers ? Would you pay that a month to be in a better more mature community ? I would probably pay more to be honest with you but I have $$ to burn.
What do you think ?
EDIT : after learning about the EQ Legacy server I believe that would be the answer if done right.
Possibly a more expensive server that offers things like player housing and other community driven items.
Not a new game but a new server.
Sorry - You will have MORE asshats with subs than without. Why? Because they have paid to play so they feel ENTITLED to do whatever they want. sub games are coming to a close.
Paying money does not ENTITLE you, if you break the rules, you should then be ENTITLED to go buy another damn copy of the game, verse if you do it in a f2p game, you are ENTITLED to go make another account for free, come back and be a cheater or jerk again at no personal cost. Paying $50-60 to be a jerk/cheater or being one for free, which one do you think will most likely be a repeat offender?
I still reject the entire premise of this thread - systematically culling people from a game is an entirely backwards attitude to building better communities, especially in an MMO where diversity and characters and playstyles is elemenetal.
I agree with you, and frankly I'm pretty sick and tired of that attitude. Every forum community, twitch.tv chat for MMOGs, in-game chat, etc devolves into these types of debates with people crying about how free-to-play, buy-to-play and cash shops are ruining the industry. It's complete and utter nonsense in today's market. It was certainly true that F2P games early on were mostly Asian grinder trash filled with botters, hackers and asshats but that stopped being true the minute that western developers started adopting the alternate business models (ala DDO)... What is truly ruining the market is this pervasive negative attitude of the vocal minority that still believes this rubbish.
------------------------- "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
I have noticed that as more games go F2P there are more asshats around than ever before. Even my favorite shooter (CounterStrike) is so jacked up with hackers these days its no fun to play. I see more and more hacking and more punk-ass kids talking trash in chat and greifing guilds popping up.
Do you think a rated M game with say a $25. a mo. sub fee would curb these losers ? Would you pay that a month to be in a better more mature community ? I would probably pay more to be honest with you but I have $$ to burn.
What do you think ?
EDIT : after learning about the EQ Legacy server I believe that would be the answer if done right.
Possibly a more expensive server that offers things like player housing and other community driven items.
Not a new game but a new server.
Maybe we should make them use separate keyboards too. If they use the same type mouse as us we can hit 'em with a fire hose...
The "unwanted"?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Mandatory cost in general keeps out a lot of unwanted elements as banishment costs the offender money... But irrational costs woln't lead to a successful game. Even a retail only cost or minimal subscription would make an impact. Beyond that, there are always some unwanted elements, but proactive moderation prevents them from accomplishing much because they lose a lot of effort with their account, even if its free.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
$25 a month ??? people have complained about $15 as it is. I don't mind paying $10-15 but good gravy not $25. I'm hardcore gamer as well but i am not rich either.
Gaming to me is a hobby and something I enjoy. I'd be prepared to spend a lot of money on a subscription if it offered good value entertainment. Just like I play Golf occasionally and if I choose I can buy the $3k set of clubs or $300 set of clubs I'd like to be able to do the same. Do the clubs make me a better player? No but at least I can invest in something I like to do.
Its sad that MMO's are not moving with the increasing age demographic of gamers and are stuck in the past of being a time sync for children, students, unemployed, people disenchanted with life etc. Don't get me wrong I've been thru that journey but now I'm older and established in life I just dont have time or the desire for that. I've established myself and am done with the menial activities.
If I want to eat at a new restaurant I don't have to go and sweep the floors, wash up, etc for a week before I can even eat. I go pay and eat after all the menial tasks I've paid for with my money that I've earned doing MY JOB already.
I'd like to see an MMO with a high monthly subscription (in the order of +$25 p/w) that pumped out regular QUALITY content not reliant on time sync's. One that the entertainment was based on completing / experiencing the content rather than re-grinding gear every 3 months. Ideally this would include a brutal community management team that would ban undesirable behaviors (in/out of game) into oblivion.
The sickness of the internet is poor people wanting everything for free - maybe isp's should put up access charges while we're at it.
Originally posted by Nephelai ...I'd like to see an MMO with a high monthly subscription (in the order of +$25 p/w) that pumped out regular QUALITY content not reliant on time sync's. One that the entertainment was based on completing / experiencing the content rather than re-grinding gear every 3 months. Ideally this would include a brutal community management team that would ban undesirable behaviors (in/out of game) into oblivion....
This I agree with. However, I feel that time syncs play an important part in community building.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I have noticed that as more games go F2P there are more asshats around than ever before. Even my favorite shooter (CounterStrike) is so jacked up with hackers these days its no fun to play. I see more and more hacking and more punk-ass kids talking trash in chat and greifing guilds popping up.
Do you think a rated M game with say a $25. a mo. sub fee would curb these losers ? Would you pay that a month to be in a better more mature community ? I would probably pay more to be honest with you but I have $$ to burn.
What do you think ?
EDIT : after learning about the EQ Legacy server I believe that would be the answer if done right.
Possibly a more expensive server that offers things like player housing and other community driven items.
Not a new game but a new server.
I personally have some issues with threads like these...where there are "judgements" passed towards others.
Having said this...
A higher Sub would not fix the issue, being an asshat as you put it is not reserved to a specific demographic and a higher sub would only filter out many of the younger players without an income.
Coincidentally, Teenagers represent the highest population of MMORPG's today. Even if the average Age of MMO players is around 30-35
So not only it would not solve your intolerance of some types of people, but it would also make that game more like a Niche.
And there are already Niche games out there with small knittight communities that one can play.
if you want to play the latest and greatest, chances are it will also be more popular for the opening stages (and since we know it all goes down within 3 months anyways) you have to be ready to deal with all kinds of personalities and be tolerant with your anger, and also indifferent of the asshatery, and have fun with those you can.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I have noticed that as more games go F2P there are more asshats around than ever before. Even my favorite shooter (CounterStrike) is so jacked up with hackers these days its no fun to play. I see more and more hacking and more punk-ass kids talking trash in chat and greifing guilds popping up.
Do you think a rated M game with say a $25. a mo. sub fee would curb these losers ? Would you pay that a month to be in a better more mature community ? I would probably pay more to be honest with you but I have $$ to burn.
What do you think ?
EDIT : after learning about the EQ Legacy server I believe that would be the answer if done right.
Possibly a more expensive server that offers things like player housing and other community driven items.
Not a new game but a new server.
I personally have some issues with threads like these...where there are "judgements" passed towards others.
Having said this...
A higher Sub would not fix the issue, being an asshat as you put it is not reserved to a specific demographic and a higher sub would only filter out many of the younger players without an income.
Coincidentally, Teenagers represent the highest population of MMORPG's today. Even if the average Age of MMO players is around 30-35
So not only it would not solve your intolerance of some types of people, but it would also make that game more like a Niche.
And there are already Niche games out there with small knittight communities that one can play.
if you want to play the latest and greatest, chances are it will also be more popular for the opening stages (and since we know it all goes down within 3 months anyways) you have to be ready to deal with all kinds of personalities and be tolerant with your anger, and also indifferent of the asshatery, and have fun with those you can.
So, back to the OP, this is why high SUB's would do nothing to keep out the unwanted. They will still be there but there would be less of a general population.
Originally posted by sexypanda198 $25 a month ??? people have complained about $15 as it is. I don't mind paying $10-15 but good gravy not $25. I'm hardcore gamer as well but i am not rich either.
It has nothing to do with affordability, it is about competition.
I wouldn't think twice about spending a couple hundred dollars for a meal with my wife at the French Laundry because it is the experience is so much better than other places.
As for MMO? I wouldn't even pay a $15 sub because i find almost the same amount of fun in a F2P game. Sometimes even more fun.
I have noticed that as more games go F2P there are more asshats around than ever before. Even my favorite shooter (CounterStrike) is so jacked up with hackers these days its no fun to play. I see more and more hacking and more punk-ass kids talking trash in chat and greifing guilds popping up.
Do you think a rated M game with say a $25. a mo. sub fee would curb these losers ? Would you pay that a month to be in a better more mature community ? I would probably pay more to be honest with you but I have $$ to burn.
What do you think ?
EDIT : after learning about the EQ Legacy server I believe that would be the answer if done right.
Possibly a more expensive server that offers things like player housing and other community driven items.
Not a new game but a new server.
In my experience with TERA's f2p conversion I found:
1) Sub fee does nothing to keep out asshats as any visit to WoW will show you. There are plenty of asses who have access to a credit card. What it does do is keep out BRs and most non English speakers, which can certainly be nice. Nothing like winding up in a group where half the people can't understand what you're saying.
2) Rated M does nothing because everyone lies about their age on the internet.
I was under the impression that money had no correlation with a person being an asshat or not. I could of course be wrong and that money do in fact make you a better person, better behaved and such but I seriously doubt it.
If we are talking about Camelot Unchained, then I think that a very high subscription is the best idea. This game's style and niche audience denotes the need for a big cost per month pricetag. I'm thinking that >$40 is probably the sweetspot for that game.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I have noticed that as more games go F2P there are more asshats around than ever before. Even my favorite shooter (CounterStrike) is so jacked up with hackers these days its no fun to play. I see more and more hacking and more punk-ass kids talking trash in chat and greifing guilds popping up.
Do you think a rated M game with say a $25. a mo. sub fee would curb these losers ? Would you pay that a month to be in a better more mature community ? I would probably pay more to be honest with you but I have $$ to burn.
What do you think ?
EDIT : after learning about the EQ Legacy server I believe that would be the answer if done right.
Possibly a more expensive server that offers things like player housing and other community driven items.
Not a new game but a new server.
I personally have some issues with threads like these...where there are "judgements" passed towards others.
Having said this...
A higher Sub would not fix the issue, being an asshat as you put it is not reserved to a specific demographic and a higher sub would only filter out many of the younger players without an income.
Coincidentally, Teenagers represent the highest population of MMORPG's today. Even if the average Age of MMO players is around 30-35
So not only it would not solve your intolerance of some types of people, but it would also make that game more like a Niche.
And there are already Niche games out there with small knittight communities that one can play.
if you want to play the latest and greatest, chances are it will also be more popular for the opening stages (and since we know it all goes down within 3 months anyways) you have to be ready to deal with all kinds of personalities and be tolerant with your anger, and also indifferent of the asshatery, and have fun with those you can.
So, back to the OP, this is why high SUB's would do nothing to keep out the unwanted. They will still be there but there would be less of a general population.
Sorry, your Info is outdated. This is 2013...not 2004...
Albeit, mind you, in "Teen", people up to 21 maybe included.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I think a high sub will still hurt a game regardless. Even if it draws in less trolls I'm sure you'd lose alot of other mature players making them pay more for an MMO, especially if that MMO doesn't offer anything exciting but mature players, it be something like a country club in gamers terms.
Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO
TBH I don't even see any needs to pay sub anymore.
It's not a question of quality or safety, just games our days need to win at ANY cost. At normal sub game you need to have progress, earn how to play etc = long, may be boring period of time until you can start to feel the power.
at buy-to-win f2p, like most of them now at market, people can buy might from like 1st hours of playing, w/o need to learn or to make slow progression.
and sure they need freeloaders or even poor CS'ers, as they will be losers to be laugh of , darkness to show better the OP light etc.
I'm not sure why some popular games never make like 1-2 sub servers. May be it too complicate not to relate game to CS, or, may be sub server will be less profitable too.
Imagine poor 15$ per month compare to 3000-15000 per year to win.... silly game. =XD
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises. Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
Comments
If an mmo comes out that is worthy of a sub then i would gladly pay one, the problem is that no mmo on the market is worth paying 15.99 for when i can get the same thing for free. subscription mmo or free to play mmo in the end you are doing the same bloody thing. if mmo's want to be worthy of a 15.99 monthly sub then they need to introduce more revolutionary ideas.
Subs respect the game a bit more due to their being invested in it, imo. That's all i have to say about that.
Now, the problem with failing subscription games is not the fee. It's the game. These companies keep pumping out recycled garbage games looking to cash in. I would gladly pay a sub fee for a game that was well made. I'll pay a premium fee for a premium game.
EQNext can not come out fast enough.
Sorry - You will have MORE asshats with subs than without. Why? Because they have paid to play so they feel ENTITLED to do whatever they want. sub games are coming to a close.
If this worked, and they effectively policed cheaters/dupers/hackers, I would rather play without them in my game.
I still reject the entire premise of this thread - systematically culling people from a game is an entirely backwards attitude to building better communities, especially in an MMO where diversity and characters and playstyles is elemenetal.
Paying money does not ENTITLE you, if you break the rules, you should then be ENTITLED to go buy another damn copy of the game, verse if you do it in a f2p game, you are ENTITLED to go make another account for free, come back and be a cheater or jerk again at no personal cost. Paying $50-60 to be a jerk/cheater or being one for free, which one do you think will most likely be a repeat offender?
You must be really lonely, at least 'round here.
I agree with you, and frankly I'm pretty sick and tired of that attitude. Every forum community, twitch.tv chat for MMOGs, in-game chat, etc devolves into these types of debates with people crying about how free-to-play, buy-to-play and cash shops are ruining the industry. It's complete and utter nonsense in today's market. It was certainly true that F2P games early on were mostly Asian grinder trash filled with botters, hackers and asshats but that stopped being true the minute that western developers started adopting the alternate business models (ala DDO)... What is truly ruining the market is this pervasive negative attitude of the vocal minority that still believes this rubbish.
-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
Maybe we should make them use separate keyboards too. If they use the same type mouse as us we can hit 'em with a fire hose...
The "unwanted"?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
Gaming to me is a hobby and something I enjoy. I'd be prepared to spend a lot of money on a subscription if it offered good value entertainment. Just like I play Golf occasionally and if I choose I can buy the $3k set of clubs or $300 set of clubs I'd like to be able to do the same. Do the clubs make me a better player? No but at least I can invest in something I like to do.
Its sad that MMO's are not moving with the increasing age demographic of gamers and are stuck in the past of being a time sync for children, students, unemployed, people disenchanted with life etc. Don't get me wrong I've been thru that journey but now I'm older and established in life I just dont have time or the desire for that. I've established myself and am done with the menial activities.
If I want to eat at a new restaurant I don't have to go and sweep the floors, wash up, etc for a week before I can even eat. I go pay and eat after all the menial tasks I've paid for with my money that I've earned doing MY JOB already.
I'd like to see an MMO with a high monthly subscription (in the order of +$25 p/w) that pumped out regular QUALITY content not reliant on time sync's. One that the entertainment was based on completing / experiencing the content rather than re-grinding gear every 3 months. Ideally this would include a brutal community management team that would ban undesirable behaviors (in/out of game) into oblivion.
The sickness of the internet is poor people wanting everything for free - maybe isp's should put up access charges while we're at it.
This I agree with. However, I feel that time syncs play an important part in community building.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I personally have some issues with threads like these...where there are "judgements" passed towards others.
Having said this...
A higher Sub would not fix the issue, being an asshat as you put it is not reserved to a specific demographic and a higher sub would only filter out many of the younger players without an income.
Coincidentally, Teenagers represent the highest population of MMORPG's today. Even if the average Age of MMO players is around 30-35
So not only it would not solve your intolerance of some types of people, but it would also make that game more like a Niche.
And there are already Niche games out there with small knittight communities that one can play.
if you want to play the latest and greatest, chances are it will also be more popular for the opening stages (and since we know it all goes down within 3 months anyways) you have to be ready to deal with all kinds of personalities and be tolerant with your anger, and also indifferent of the asshatery, and have fun with those you can.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Teenagers are NOT the highest population of MMO's. Sorry, it has been shown to be a fallacy - http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/gateway_demographics.html Read this. http://jeffhurtblog.com/2011/02/21/why-online-games-will-change-work-events/ or this one. Asshats are from all age groups.
So, back to the OP, this is why high SUB's would do nothing to keep out the unwanted. They will still be there but there would be less of a general population.
It has nothing to do with affordability, it is about competition.
I wouldn't think twice about spending a couple hundred dollars for a meal with my wife at the French Laundry because it is the experience is so much better than other places.
As for MMO? I wouldn't even pay a $15 sub because i find almost the same amount of fun in a F2P game. Sometimes even more fun.
In my experience with TERA's f2p conversion I found:
1) Sub fee does nothing to keep out asshats as any visit to WoW will show you. There are plenty of asses who have access to a credit card. What it does do is keep out BRs and most non English speakers, which can certainly be nice. Nothing like winding up in a group where half the people can't understand what you're saying.
2) Rated M does nothing because everyone lies about their age on the internet.
If we are talking about Camelot Unchained, then I think that a very high subscription is the best idea. This game's style and niche audience denotes the need for a big cost per month pricetag. I'm thinking that >$40 is probably the sweetspot for that game.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Sorry, your Info is outdated. This is 2013...not 2004...
Albeit, mind you, in "Teen", people up to 21 maybe included.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO
TBH I don't even see any needs to pay sub anymore.
It's not a question of quality or safety, just games our days need to win at ANY cost. At normal sub game you need to have progress, earn how to play etc = long, may be boring period of time until you can start to feel the power.
at buy-to-win f2p, like most of them now at market, people can buy might from like 1st hours of playing, w/o need to learn or to make slow progression.
and sure they need freeloaders or even poor CS'ers, as they will be losers to be laugh of , darkness to show better the OP light etc.
I'm not sure why some popular games never make like 1-2 sub servers. May be it too complicate not to relate game to CS, or, may be sub server will be less profitable too.
Imagine poor 15$ per month compare to 3000-15000 per year to win.... silly game. =XD
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
"High" sub fee ?
I pay 6€ per month now (year sub) for Vanguard. Thats pretty low ...
But yeah, subscription means people play longtime. Even more so with a year sub, hehe. So they are obviously more interested in being nice.
These people who pay nothing are usually some kiddos.