People who asked for a charge back might just want to keep an eye on their credit rating. Cryptic might not be able to stop a charge back, but if the person did not go through the full process they can negatively impact your credit score. Trying to get your credit score fixed takes a much longer time and effort than just sending in a written request for a refund before getting a charge back.
1. I truly hope this doesn't escalate too badly because while founder's packs did contain ADs those ADs for the most part were likely spent before the bug truly hit epic proportions and most bought their Founder's packs for early beta access so it is a grey area, it truly depends if PWE wants to trump EA in the negative PR department and actually crucify a few people for what could be twisted one way or another to be or not be fraud.
2. I hope the individual who acted like his money means anything in this world (even to his CC company), if there is a PWE player bashing session, gets in the crosshairs as well. Sorry but I truly have no sympathy for people that far down in intellectual terms and said individual deserves a wake up call so getting smacked around by a company with more money than that person can hope to make in several life-times should be enough to teach said person the little fish/big fish economics theory. More so if it is just to make an example out of him/her.
3. That people simmer the Hell down and just watch things as they unfold without going ape shit for neutral things they judge to be negative (advising people to first try PWE's refund channels before charging back could mean quite a few people charged back directly which lands those individuals in a certain shitty situation if we take point 1) into consideration).
Originally posted by Yyrkoon_PoM People who asked for a charge back might just want to keep an eye on their credit rating. Cryptic might not be able to stop a charge back, but if the person did not go through the full process they can negatively impact your credit score. Trying to get your credit score fixed takes a much longer time and effort than just sending in a written request for a refund before getting a charge back.
Oh that's funny please explain to me how that will happen? I report fraud and my credit rating gets lowered. Hmm, odd over the years I've reported various instances of fraud and not once has my card issuer questioned me nor has my credit score been negatively impacted.
You didn't buy the game or access to the game, you bought the items. You got your items you paid for...doing a chargeback because just because you don't like that they do EXACTLY what the items said they would do and is EXACTLY as advertised is just plain fraud. From now on you can just go buy all the founder packs from all the games, then do a chargeback after you get your items...That's like going to buy a car, then when they come to repo it because you didn't pay and you say "Oh I didn't want to pay for the car, because I didn't want the car...but can I keep the car anyways without paying?"
Edit: And yes your credit rating can drop if you're a victim of fraud and/or the one committing the fraud.
Originally posted by nbtscan With an Amex, the customer is always right. :P
Until, you pay off your balance then get a notice in the mail saying you need to pay your minimum statement by such and such date. I don't use American Express anymore after this happened. I paid them ~$4000 to pay off the balance of the card, then they sent me statements saying I defaulted and never made my minimum payment for the month after...The card had no minimum payment! Finally I had to get the BBB involved and the 3 credit companies to remove that non-payment off my credit record.
You didn't buy the game or access to the game, you bought the items. You got your items you paid for...doing a chargeback because just because you don't like that they do EXACTLY what the items said they would do and is EXACTLY as advertised is just plain fraud. From now on you can just go buy all the founder packs from all the games, then do a chargeback after you get your items...That's like going to buy a car, then when they come to repo it because you didn't pay and you say "Oh I didn't want to pay for the car, because I didn't want the car...but can I keep the car anyways without paying?"
Edit: And yes your credit rating can drop if you're a victim of fraud and/or the one committing the fraud.
Technically Cryptic/PWE will be reclaiming the virtual items purchased by the Starter/Guardian/Founders pack after banning the account in response to the chargeback anyway, so I guess it might work out in the end.
The worst case scenario, however, is if they contest the chargeback and demonstrate a) the customer received all virtual items as listed on the product page and/or b) the customer made no attempt to file for a refund (thus no attempt to return the virtual goods), the chargeback might get revesed and the player banned anyway. Whether or not the credit card company will issue a mark is entirely speculative and dependent on their own policies and relationship with the customer.
People who asked for a charge back might just want to keep an eye on their credit rating. Cryptic might not be able to stop a charge back, but if the person did not go through the full process they can negatively impact your credit score. Trying to get your credit score fixed takes a much longer time and effort than just sending in a written request for a refund before getting a charge back.
I have never, ever, heard of a successful chargeback affecting anyone's credit score. And I would have if it were even remotely possible. If the CC company executed the chargeback, it is a "legal" transaction, and if there were anything actionable, it would be the CC company on the hook from the vendor. And none of that even applies in the case of NW, because as the product is still in beta status, it is "pre-release" (and anything in there that a customer paid for). As such, customers are fully entitled to a refund in most of the US (same as a pre-order). (Edit: I just checked the regulations, and the only way a customer could suffer a credit score hit, is in the case of multiple and repeated chargebacks, or chargeback attempts in a short period, which can be classified an an "abusive" behavior, among many others.)
more to the point on average if a person can afford to rack up thousands on tier credit card and pay it off in same month,
the person would not even use a credit card to begin with, on average credit cards are used for shopping and trips, not day to day expense, only a idiot would rack up huge amount on a credit card when they can already aford to pay it straight, since this is actully adding the overall cost.
[mod edit]
That is totally untrue and nonsensical.
Just because you CAN pay it off every month doesn't mean you want to pay everything upfront. Since interests from bank accounts are NOT paid on the same dates as credit card due date a smart person will actually use CC as much as possible and pay in full when it is due, that way they earn the interest and deprive the CC company of theirs. You pay for things upfront you actually lose interest on that money that you might have earn.
Also, thousands on CC bill is really not that much on a monthly CC bill if the person earns more than $70k a year (which is NOT unlikely if the said person is a upper middle level professional).
I think you might need to learn a bit about money management.
i havent worked in almost two years am puttting a wife through colledge and spend most of my time bullshiting in new MMOs or Sp com games, i think im well aware of how money mangement works.
By using the CC i get extra Money i can spend.
I could spend it all without using a CC but why would i not want a couple hundred$+ each months just cause i used the CC?
I always use the points i get for shopping on Amazon this months for example i bought me the Wii U from the points i got.
I do not wish to criticize your money management skills but i have to question how well developed it is of you would not want some extra money for doing nothing but shopping?
Originally posted by reddog00 Nice...but I feel sorry for the people who paid money for this game...period!
Why? I paid $20 for the basic founders pack and got my stuff without any problems. I am enjoying the game and plan to continue playing. I'll continue to pay as long as I'm enjoying myself. If a game is fun, don't you think you owe them a little something? Or are you the kind of person who wanders around a supermarket gobbling up the free samples and never buys anything?
First of all that moderator statement is totally gone the wrong way. I can't even imagine how someone with a working brain can come up with such blatant lies and threads about charging back. Stating that it most likely strengthens people to charge back their money, cause it's provoking to put up a fight. Only a 12 year old kid would believe what that moderator claimed, but those don't possess credid cards.
Since the ingame currency people acquired by spending real money went bankrupt through bugs, it's not a matter wether someone "likes" those bought packs. It's just not the item advertised anymore. People buying those got promised that they can reach certain ingame goals faster than others using the paid AD. That's is simply not the case. Those paid for virtual goods went down the river cause nonpayers get them for free by exploiting and possessing more AD than anyone could reasonably buy with real money.
It's not about disliking a product you paid for, beta or whatever called. Buyers didn't got delivered what they paid for, since the currency exchange/economy is broken. There is no way to set yourself apart from people who didn't pay. Therefore the cash shop is obsolete. The advantage buyers got promised isn't there and they can claim their money back, of course.
Even if I would have spent money and Neverwinter, wouldn't care about economy or the actual value of my pack and even if I would like the game still, reading such a blatant threat from an PWE employee would make me want to laugh hard first and getting my money back second, just because they take me for a brainamputed one.
Originally posted by Yyrkoon_PoM People who asked for a charge back might just want to keep an eye on their credit rating. Cryptic might not be able to stop a charge back, but if the person did not go through the full process they can negatively impact your credit score. Trying to get your credit score fixed takes a much longer time and effort than just sending in a written request for a refund before getting a charge back.
I have never, ever, heard of a successful chargeback affecting anyone's credit score. And I would have if it were even remotely possible. If the CC company executed the chargeback, it is a "legal" transaction, and if there were anything actionable, it would be the CC company on the hook from the vendor. And none of that even applies in the case of NW, because as the product is still in beta status, it is "pre-release" (and anything in there that a customer paid for). As such, customers are fully entitled to a refund in most of the US (same as a pre-order). (Edit: I just checked the regulations, and the only way a customer could suffer a credit score hit, is in the case of multiple and repeated chargebacks, or chargeback attempts in a short period, which can be classified an an "abusive" behavior, among many others.)
From a actual credit perspective, this is what would come into effect that could hurt your credit.
If your CC company from the investigation decides at any point to reduce your credit limit or close the card.. does not have to be related to the current situation of your chargeback, any weird situations can trigger a review of your credit profile which they will do to see if anything suspicious is going on... depending on your utilization at the time can trigger a drop in score due to the UTI increasing since you now longer have that open available credit. EX Say you have 2 cards, both have 1k limits and you have 200 total used puts you at 10% UTI which is great... one gets shut down completely thus dropping you to 20% UTI. Other factors can contribute like how long one is open to the other, other credit items in your profile, etc. Also, if your now sole open card opens a review and doesn't like what just happen, they can also limit or close your card.
I know as my old limits, which were around 100k total among 6 cards... perfect history and payments... my AMEX revolving decided to fraud review me when I left my card at a restaurant and was used... sided with me but reduced my limit by 5k... cascaded and resulted in drops among all but 1 card putting me down to 60K. Everyone's mileage varies, just wanted to point out that it can and does happen.. follow the rules before you do escalate to that next level.
*Forgot to add, whether you do or not, you will always be at the mercy of your credit card companies regarding revolving lines... don't believe me remember the recession and loss of limits for people that had perfect scores, plenty of cash, but loss cards left and right for whatever reason the bank decided.*
That does explain why they haven"t been responding to people about cash back on the game. That way the customer can't prove the attempt with the company. Good way of doing business. Logged in to see what was happening. Saw seven players in the market. five in other sections. Crickets throughout the instance. I will wait and see if the game improves. Check back in a month from now, unless Elder Scrolls has opened....
That does explain why they haven"t been responding to people about cash back on the game. That way the customer can't prove the attempt with the company. Good way of doing business. Logged in to see what was happening. Saw seven players in the market. five in other sections. Crickets throughout the instance. I will wait and see if the game improves. Check back in a month from now, unless Elder Scrolls has opened....
Actually, if a company fails to respond to a request for a refund, that is enough to satisfy the "attempt to resolve" clause with a vendor before initiating a chargeback with your CC company. The CC company is going to take the side of its customer (you) largely because until you pay the bill, it is the CC company's money in play (and by law, they can not charge you interest on a disputed item, either), So, the fact that Cryptic/PWE is not responding, does not help them any on the chargeback front.
Typical corporate shills trying to intimidate their customers. PWE is not going to do anything except ban your account thus ending your access to all their titles. This is what every MMO company has done and continues to do. They can't do anything else and even if they could they would spend more money trying to go after these people than they would ever stand to make.
This smells of desperation to me. Is it possible PWE could have generated so many charge backs in the last few days that cc companies have flagged them for fraud?
I did a chargeback with this crappy game and it's already completed with money returned. PWE won't even contest it because they have no leg to stand on with the product they pushed out. I was refunded the Guardian pack as well as 3 purchases of Zen.
Their little threats are just that. There are so many people unhappy and bringing up charge backs that they had to post something to stop the bleeding.
Originally posted by reeereee This smells of desperation to me. Is it possible PWE could have generated so many charge backs in the last few days that cc companies have flagged them for fraud?
It should be noted that charge backs reflect poorly on the business, so sometimes just the mere threat of a charge back will get a business to deliver on their promise. And if they don’t, then do it!
You forget that the credit is temporary and PWE has about 60 days to respond depending on the CC agreement, until that time lapses that credit can be reversed.
You forget that the credit is temporary and PWE has about 60 days to respond depending on the CC agreement, until that time lapses that credit can be reversed.
But it won't be: the game is still official a beta and thus in "pre-release", as such, in most places in the US, players have a RIGHT to a refund (same if it is a pre-order). All of the "warnings" from the mod and the few posters in here do not seem to acknowledge that fact. Fact: if you chargeback on NW, you will get your money back and there will be no further negative consequences to you (aside from PWE banning your acct). That is the bottom line.
Originally posted by Burntvet Originally posted by wileee That does explain why they haven"t been responding to people about cash back on the game. That way the customer can't prove the attempt with the company. Good way of doing business. Logged in to see what was happening. Saw seven players in the market. five in other sections. Crickets throughout the instance. I will wait and see if the game improves. Check back in a month from now, unless Elder Scrolls has opened....
Actually, if a company fails to respond to a request for a refund, that is enough to satisfy the "attempt to resolve" clause with a vendor before initiating a chargeback with your CC company. The CC company is going to take the side of its customer (you) largely because until you pay the bill, it is the CC company's money in play (and by law, they can not charge you interest on a disputed item, either), So, the fact that Cryptic/PWE is not responding, does not help them any on the chargeback front.
The moderator on their forums was doing a service though because you can get your credit or paypal account temporarily frozen or have other problems if you don't follow the procedures.
What people should do if they don't feel Cryptic is responding adequately is contact their credit card company or paypal and find out the hoops they need to jump through in order to satisfy that company. Then it will go a lot easier for you.
Don't just jump to "chargeback" right away. If you don't do it like your CC company likes then your cash could be held up while they review things. The CC company isn't your friend and no nicer than the mmo developers. It certainly doesn't pay to piss them off.
You don't seem to get it: Cryptic has almost nothing to do with it. If they do not answer an email (which has been the case with all requesting refunds, for the most part), that is the same as doing nothing to resolve the situation. As such, the customer can request the CC chargeback, and Cryptic has nothing to say in this particular case, because it is a BETA product. In the US, that is all that matters. Beta = pre-release = ENTITLED to refund. Nothing bad at all will happen to any customers CC or Paypal acct behind this.
Comments
1. I truly hope this doesn't escalate too badly because while founder's packs did contain ADs those ADs for the most part were likely spent before the bug truly hit epic proportions and most bought their Founder's packs for early beta access so it is a grey area, it truly depends if PWE wants to trump EA in the negative PR department and actually crucify a few people for what could be twisted one way or another to be or not be fraud.
2. I hope the individual who acted like his money means anything in this world (even to his CC company), if there is a PWE player bashing session, gets in the crosshairs as well. Sorry but I truly have no sympathy for people that far down in intellectual terms and said individual deserves a wake up call so getting smacked around by a company with more money than that person can hope to make in several life-times should be enough to teach said person the little fish/big fish economics theory. More so if it is just to make an example out of him/her.
3. That people simmer the Hell down and just watch things as they unfold without going ape shit for neutral things they judge to be negative (advising people to first try PWE's refund channels before charging back could mean quite a few people charged back directly which lands those individuals in a certain shitty situation if we take point 1) into consideration).
Oh that's funny please explain to me how that will happen? I report fraud and my credit rating gets lowered. Hmm, odd over the years I've reported various instances of fraud and not once has my card issuer questioned me nor has my credit score been negatively impacted.
So perhaps you are full of shit?
You didn't buy the game or access to the game, you bought the items. You got your items you paid for...doing a chargeback because just because you don't like that they do EXACTLY what the items said they would do and is EXACTLY as advertised is just plain fraud. From now on you can just go buy all the founder packs from all the games, then do a chargeback after you get your items...That's like going to buy a car, then when they come to repo it because you didn't pay and you say "Oh I didn't want to pay for the car, because I didn't want the car...but can I keep the car anyways without paying?"
Edit: And yes your credit rating can drop if you're a victim of fraud and/or the one committing the fraud.
Until, you pay off your balance then get a notice in the mail saying you need to pay your minimum statement by such and such date. I don't use American Express anymore after this happened. I paid them ~$4000 to pay off the balance of the card, then they sent me statements saying I defaulted and never made my minimum payment for the month after...The card had no minimum payment! Finally I had to get the BBB involved and the 3 credit companies to remove that non-payment off my credit record.
Technically Cryptic/PWE will be reclaiming the virtual items purchased by the Starter/Guardian/Founders pack after banning the account in response to the chargeback anyway, so I guess it might work out in the end.
The worst case scenario, however, is if they contest the chargeback and demonstrate a) the customer received all virtual items as listed on the product page and/or b) the customer made no attempt to file for a refund (thus no attempt to return the virtual goods), the chargeback might get revesed and the player banned anyway. Whether or not the credit card company will issue a mark is entirely speculative and dependent on their own policies and relationship with the customer.
I have never, ever, heard of a successful chargeback affecting anyone's credit score. And I would have if it were even remotely possible. If the CC company executed the chargeback, it is a "legal" transaction, and if there were anything actionable, it would be the CC company on the hook from the vendor. And none of that even applies in the case of NW, because as the product is still in beta status, it is "pre-release" (and anything in there that a customer paid for). As such, customers are fully entitled to a refund in most of the US (same as a pre-order). (Edit: I just checked the regulations, and the only way a customer could suffer a credit score hit, is in the case of multiple and repeated chargebacks, or chargeback attempts in a short period, which can be classified an an "abusive" behavior, among many others.)By using the CC i get extra Money i can spend.
I could spend it all without using a CC but why would i not want a couple hundred$+ each months just cause i used the CC?
I always use the points i get for shopping on Amazon this months for example i bought me the Wii U from the points i got.
I do not wish to criticize your money management skills but i have to question how well developed it is of you would not want some extra money for doing nothing but shopping?
Aren't the companies that allow people to use Amex also customers?
Why? I paid $20 for the basic founders pack and got my stuff without any problems. I am enjoying the game and plan to continue playing. I'll continue to pay as long as I'm enjoying myself. If a game is fun, don't you think you owe them a little something? Or are you the kind of person who wanders around a supermarket gobbling up the free samples and never buys anything?
First of all that moderator statement is totally gone the wrong way. I can't even imagine how someone with a working brain can come up with such blatant lies and threads about charging back. Stating that it most likely strengthens people to charge back their money, cause it's provoking to put up a fight. Only a 12 year old kid would believe what that moderator claimed, but those don't possess credid cards.
Since the ingame currency people acquired by spending real money went bankrupt through bugs, it's not a matter wether someone "likes" those bought packs. It's just not the item advertised anymore. People buying those got promised that they can reach certain ingame goals faster than others using the paid AD. That's is simply not the case. Those paid for virtual goods went down the river cause nonpayers get them for free by exploiting and possessing more AD than anyone could reasonably buy with real money.
It's not about disliking a product you paid for, beta or whatever called. Buyers didn't got delivered what they paid for, since the currency exchange/economy is broken. There is no way to set yourself apart from people who didn't pay. Therefore the cash shop is obsolete. The advantage buyers got promised isn't there and they can claim their money back, of course.
Even if I would have spent money and Neverwinter, wouldn't care about economy or the actual value of my pack and even if I would like the game still, reading such a blatant threat from an PWE employee would make me want to laugh hard first and getting my money back second, just because they take me for a brainamputed one.
From a actual credit perspective, this is what would come into effect that could hurt your credit.
If your CC company from the investigation decides at any point to reduce your credit limit or close the card.. does not have to be related to the current situation of your chargeback, any weird situations can trigger a review of your credit profile which they will do to see if anything suspicious is going on... depending on your utilization at the time can trigger a drop in score due to the UTI increasing since you now longer have that open available credit. EX Say you have 2 cards, both have 1k limits and you have 200 total used puts you at 10% UTI which is great... one gets shut down completely thus dropping you to 20% UTI. Other factors can contribute like how long one is open to the other, other credit items in your profile, etc. Also, if your now sole open card opens a review and doesn't like what just happen, they can also limit or close your card.
I know as my old limits, which were around 100k total among 6 cards... perfect history and payments... my AMEX revolving decided to fraud review me when I left my card at a restaurant and was used... sided with me but reduced my limit by 5k... cascaded and resulted in drops among all but 1 card putting me down to 60K. Everyone's mileage varies, just wanted to point out that it can and does happen.. follow the rules before you do escalate to that next level.
*Forgot to add, whether you do or not, you will always be at the mercy of your credit card companies regarding revolving lines... don't believe me remember the recession and loss of limits for people that had perfect scores, plenty of cash, but loss cards left and right for whatever reason the bank decided.*
Actually, if a company fails to respond to a request for a refund, that is enough to satisfy the "attempt to resolve" clause with a vendor before initiating a chargeback with your CC company. The CC company is going to take the side of its customer (you) largely because until you pay the bill, it is the CC company's money in play (and by law, they can not charge you interest on a disputed item, either), So, the fact that Cryptic/PWE is not responding, does not help them any on the chargeback front.Steam: Neph
Duh every account is banned that anyone does that in, thought everyone knew that by now.
I did a chargeback with this crappy game and it's already completed with money returned. PWE won't even contest it because they have no leg to stand on with the product they pushed out. I was refunded the Guardian pack as well as 3 purchases of Zen.
Their little threats are just that. There are so many people unhappy and bringing up charge backs that they had to post something to stop the bleeding.
Me too. The 120 day card freeze threat is as fantastical as the neon spell animations and fairy dust allover this game...
It should be noted that charge backs reflect poorly on the business, so sometimes just the mere threat of a charge back will get a business to deliver on their promise. And if they don’t, then do it!
I retired retroactively..Haha
But it won't be: the game is still official a beta and thus in "pre-release", as such, in most places in the US, players have a RIGHT to a refund (same if it is a pre-order). All of the "warnings" from the mod and the few posters in here do not seem to acknowledge that fact. Fact: if you chargeback on NW, you will get your money back and there will be no further negative consequences to you (aside from PWE banning your acct). That is the bottom line.
Actually, if a company fails to respond to a request for a refund, that is enough to satisfy the "attempt to resolve" clause with a vendor before initiating a chargeback with your CC company. The CC company is going to take the side of its customer (you) largely because until you pay the bill, it is the CC company's money in play (and by law, they can not charge you interest on a disputed item, either), So, the fact that Cryptic/PWE is not responding, does not help them any on the chargeback front.The moderator on their forums was doing a service though because you can get your credit or paypal account temporarily frozen or have other problems if you don't follow the procedures.
What people should do if they don't feel Cryptic is responding adequately is contact their credit card company or paypal and find out the hoops they need to jump through in order to satisfy that company. Then it will go a lot easier for you.
Don't just jump to "chargeback" right away. If you don't do it like your CC company likes then your cash could be held up while they review things. The CC company isn't your friend and no nicer than the mmo developers. It certainly doesn't pay to piss them off.
You don't seem to get it: Cryptic has almost nothing to do with it. If they do not answer an email (which has been the case with all requesting refunds, for the most part), that is the same as doing nothing to resolve the situation. As such, the customer can request the CC chargeback, and Cryptic has nothing to say in this particular case, because it is a BETA product. In the US, that is all that matters. Beta = pre-release = ENTITLED to refund. Nothing bad at all will happen to any customers CC or Paypal acct behind this.