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"Just under 500k"
Warley
Member UncommonPosts: 508
I 'just' want to make a point here about that wording. It doesn't necessarily mean a number that is 'close to' 500k. In fact, 'just under' really means nothing since it could be anything from 1 subscriber to 499k subscribers. People are 'paid money' to come up with wording that makes something sound better than it may be. So, instead of saying something like "close to 200k' they could say "just under 500k," without it being an outright lie. They wouldn't be outright lying, just playing on words to make it sound like more than it really is.
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There is actually a legal term used in marketing that allows them to stretch the truth to extreme levels but I can not remember it off the top of my head. It might be puffery if memory serves me correctly.
Just under 500k, means very close to 500k. Playing the game every day I can tell you that it's definitely not 200k. Game is packed with players.
500 k subs sounds about right to me. Plus plenty of F2P.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
It depends on whether they are sending a press release as advertising or giving financial information to investors. Advertising to the public gives you a lot of leeway in what you can and can't say. Giving financial information directly to investors does not.
I would file most of the we hear about as advertising, since none of us are financial institutions that have given EA money.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The information about Just under 500k was given during conference call given directly to investors. I actually have a transcript from it, I think I did post it somewhere on forum.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
Seriously, mince words much...
"There are active subscribers" how's that, now you can sleep at night I guess.
Further, you're really not making much of a point. Suggesting that there might be 200k and the official word is 'close to 500k' makes NO sense. The game is doing well, sorry to break the news. People are actually playing it; they might not be playing long, but as of now, there is a healthy population.
So you can jump into a server on a F2P game and get an actual feel for the amount of players actually paying a sub vs those playing for free? Oddly, that doesn't sound right to me.
I dont contest the validity of the games claim that they actually have just under 500k in subbers but I do highly doubt you can tell the actual numbers of subbers just from your playing the game.
how many ppl can you fit into a raid in this game ?
How many ppl do you need playing it ?
[mod edit]
Maybe not exact numbers, but if you follow general chat, you can see that there are plenty of comments that players just subbed from F2P. Yeah I know F2P sucks and people who enjoy the game prefer to sub /grin
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
Depends on the country your business is headquartered in. Take Mortal Online for example. Henrik has been flat out lying to his investors that they will reach the break-even point every quarter for over two years now and he continues to do so.
Only a few people can fit in a zone at a time because of the game engine.. How can it feel like you are playing with 500k subbers?
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
So what you are saying is... between players on your server and the chat channels, you have derived a fairly accurate measure that there are indeed almost 500k of subbers in the game?
Again, I dont doubt there are 500k of subbers, I just think it is funny that you honestly feel you can tell there are 500k of subbers in the game based on people in the game and the chat channels.
I said that it sounds right to me. I said that it does not feel like 200k. I did not say I know exact number. I said that on conference call for investors they said that there are just under 500k subs. My understanding is that they cannot lie to investors.
That's it. it is my last post in this thread, which really is just a trolling thread anyway.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
It's not a trolling thread. Anyway, saying 'just under 500k', but having 200k isn't lying.
I assume you have proof of this statement that backs up your "claim" of the 200K? If so lets see it.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Just under 500k will mean something close - at a stretch it could be as low as 475k maybe but that is what the number of subscribers WAS at the time that EA took the data point.
How does 500k relate to the number of people logged on? It doesn't. The game has a F2P element.
If there was no F2P then you can try and relate numbers logged on to the sub level - as was done for part of last year using XFire. Its not perfect but an attempt can be made. Once F2P is thrown into the equation .....
There could be 0 subscribers (zero) are logged on and the servers could be maxxed out with F2P accounts. What the servers "feel like" - meaningless.
Bottomline: you have to take EA at their word but don't read anything more into what they said.
So remember that the "just under 500k" is a one day snap shot.
.
My suggestion that the number of subs pre-Makeb was 200k came about as a result of 1. Olsen's statement that they had created over 2M+ new accounts since going F2P and 2. 1.7M F2P number given in the conference call.
That is 300k new subs since going F2P and my simple suggestion is that people decided that paying $25 for Makeb + a months sub was betther than paying $20 for Makeb and staying F2P. This is the simple and to me most likely approach.
That is 300k "new" subscribers since the game went F2P. Maybe they all signed up back in November/December and have remained subscribers. Some probably did. More likely though that most took advantage of EA's discounted promotion.
So the acid test will be: will EA announce more subscription numbers?
The information about Just under 500k was given during conference call given directly to investors. I actually have a transcript from it, I think I did post it somewhere on forum.
I would still put anything we hear, which isn't written down and given to an investor, as advertising. Just because the investors participate in the advertising doesn't mean it's not something designed for public consumption. They know the calls are recorded, and made public. We don't have secret spies recording these calls and making them public unbeknownst to the participants.
Unless anyone here is one of the investors, and has the confidential documentation that only investors would be privy to, speculation on these numbers is pointless. It might still be pointless because investors are going to be more interested in the dollars, not the players so even on that documentation the player numbers may be inexact.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Which is why we have to believe them when they say - in the quarterly report - that it has just under 500k. There is a margin of error, especially as the day to day numbers will vary, but I would say within 5% so above 475k.
Statements by most employees don't mean anything. Statements by people with managerial responsibility - especially around reporting time - do carry weight. And the definition of who does and who doesn't have managerial responsibility does vary slightly from company to company especially when a company is divided into divisions. Is Olsen senior enough? From a legal point of view pretty sure he isn't - especially as SWTOR is unlikely to be a big contributor to EA's revenue stream. The head of FIFA ... that would be interesting.
At the end of the day however I see no reason why Olsen would come out and say 2M new accounts since F2P if that wasn't the case.
Just a point about confidential docs - shareholder reports have to be filed with - in EA's case - SEC so they are available. Don't expect to find any/much mention of SWTOR though - it doesn't generate enough revenue.
Anyone who believes I really know what I'm talking about when it comes to investor relations and laws concerning corporate earnings disclosures deserves what they get. :-)
It basically comes down to whether you believe them or not. If you don't like the game, you won't believe their numbers. If you like the game you'll believe their numbers. Believing or not believing the numbers doesn't actually reflect how many players are in the game, it's just what people believe. Unless someone has actual proof that the numbers are false or that the numbers aren't "just under 500k", then they're just satisfying their own needs. Whatever they are. I don't always get people so I'll leave that speculation to others.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
yup, this is almost like religion
and its also a good history lesson,,it shows, why those religious wars started
according to some Little green guy in a robe, strong emotions are dangerous
but, on the other hand he didnt play mmos, and he prolly never was in love either
sounds like a boring life to me
Are you in the right thread? Type something understandable if you are.
Anyway, back to the 500k number.
It doesn't matter if it's 500k or 20k. If a player can get in groups for heroic quests, dungeons, warzones, etc., in a reasonable time, then that's what really matters. If it takes longer, than an hour or two, then the population might be in trouble.
If the population gets too low though, the income will effect production, and this is exactly what happened. Bioware's staff got laid off, their two founders quit, it went f2p, shallow expansion, cartel shop greed, etc.
When the game was in its prime it already took up to 30 minutes on a full server to get a flashpoint group...
No idea how long it would take now, or if they inplemented dungeon finder style.
And yes you are correct people asume the worse when in reality a mmo can bve extremely fun even with 200k players.
lets look at WoW's birth....300k subs ?
but what a ride untill population exploded
But i never felt the world was empty or something.