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Will Turbine get the class revamp right?
xalvi
Member Posts: 329
Most of you all know me here as the guy bashing the game. But i bash it for a reason, mostly because it is the only middle earth mmo out there and would like to play it.
So what is the number one thing that turns people off including me about this game? It would have to be the slow and outdated combat. Back then, lets say from 07-2010 at max the combat would have been acceptable but not for 2013. Now there are some other features about this game that could turn people off (endgame grind, pvp) but lets talk about combat.
The announcement of the class revamp. If turbine gets this right this mmo will be in interest to a lot of new people. They said they are sticking more to the trinity, which is awesome imo. No more of that hybrid class system which makes everything very unbalanced. Tried GW2, best combat gamplay i have played but i need that trinity.
Lets hope Turbine does not fail with this one.
Comments
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.
Edgar Allan Poe
I kind of disagree when you say turbine gets many things right, but i don't think they can mess up on the revamp because of their statement that they made. They are pretty much canceling hybrid trait system and making trees with specific roles a.k.a trinity, ex; Minstrel either heal spec or dps spec. By doing this way, it makes turbine lives easier to balance classes but i wouldn't mind.
Pretty much my advise if you are leveling a new class is to pick a class that role you like, because they are going. I think the lm would be fine. i think they said they are removing burgs cc role and making them full on debuffers, so if it is cc you like you're set. I got a burg and i love the idea of being a full blown debuffer, didn't care much for cc. Kind of liking turbine right now, can't believe im sayin this.
@OP
I'm totally with you on the combat system - it really needs a revamp. Did they actually say one is incoming or are you just hoping for one?
+1.
Not to mention in the last few years every time they fiddled with the classes, it turned out badly... (mini, warden in my case)
I admit maybe I'm too old-fashioned, but I like versatile classes with lots of skills and options, there's no need for simplification (-> dumbing down). Imo ofc.
Edit: (I was slow with the typing
) Destai, it's not the combat system, they plan to revamp the classes (dropping out lots of skills and rewrite the remaining under the flag "simplification", and re-editing the trait lines)
Good to know this as I'd like to give this game another go. I didn't make it past level 25 or so for some reason the combat/classes didn't appeal to me as much even though I'm quite a fan of the lore/story.
Here's hoping it will change for the better I would like to play something when I go on vacation in a couple of weeks. By the way, when are these changes being implemented?
An update to the combat animations is really needed but I hope they don't meddle too much with the classes as they have some of the best classes in any MMO.
I get a little nervous when an MMO get's a revamp as the last time an MMO I really enjoyed was SWG and we all know how that revamp went.
My god bud, that is really debatable. Part of the reason they have such good class/roles is because they are using an IP, one of the best IP and it is LOTR. But saying they have one of the best classes in any mmo is really subjective.
Agreed on the fact they need to work on combat animations though, tbh hope they fix that before class revamp. But then again i think they will make animations with the revamp it only makes sense.
To other posters who wanted more info about this here are the link:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?509264-The-Lord-of-the-Rings-Online%99-Helm%92s-Deep%99
Detailed thread on the forums, on what they are planing with classes (its a post bashing turbine about the class revamp, i disagree with it though i like keeping role specific classes):
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?506048-Talent-trees-class-roles-and-player-choice
I remember when they went messing around with class balance beck with Mines of Moria, they screwed stuff up so bad for Mini's and for Captains a lot of folks who had those classes quit playing all together. A lot of folks might not remember that. I remember when we hit 65 and they started other class balance actions that messed with Lore Masters somewhat, making some skills always on and limiting the choices you had in the trees back in Mirkwood. It was at that point I gave up playing and watched 2 lifetime subs just sit there and gather 500 points a month.
Now I read all this, and you just have to shake your head and wonder what has happened. What a joke this is, somebody has lost their way, but I said that a long time ago.
What it sounds like to me is making the game simple, no hard choice just clear cut paths, playing to the lowest common denominator the free to play player who does not have time to learn his class.
Yeah some of the classes were really fun when I played and could only benefit from making them smoother. The Runekeeper and Loremaster both had a some great mechanics. The attunement system felt so energetic, and I loved the control abilities of the Loremaster. Unfortunately, the pet was hardly responsive and combat skills would activate seconds later.
Man, tell me about it. I cringe when I look at most of their animations. This goes for combat and standard walk/run cycles. Nothing has a sense of weight in that game as far as animations go.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
My memory of past Turbine "revamps" is of minor balance changes that should have happened long ago. I seem to remember them revamping certain classes before, but no powers were changed in function, just slight modifications to their values.
In any MMO, if you make too drastic of changes too fast, some players will feel alienated by the changes to "their class" and may quit playing. Whichever direction they take, Turbine is risking losing players.
I haven't read anything yet about a class revamp by Turbine yet, so I'll need to get more information before I fully form an opinion.
My initial reaction to hearing LOTRO moving towards a "trinity" approach is... "Ugh".
I like the current system. I don't feel locked in and am able to do what's required for the current situation rather then be a specialist looking to find an opportunity tailored toward my specific build that will - for all intents and purposes - be identical to any other character of the same class.
For now my Captain is mostly a tank, but has legendary items that increase my damage, and armor that is more for healing. Used together, I am able to be a useful support player, ready for any situation while being viable when solo (a good portion of my gaming).
Were Turbine to say "Now Captains are healers", I'd be driven towards only gear and abilities that make me a better healer. In time, all healer Captains would practically be identical in the stats and gear they've selected.
I'm not against the "trinity", per se. I like playing DCU where I am a Controller; taking great pride in being the best I can be when grouping up with instances.
But I really cut my teeth in MMOs with a game that did not initially have any roles (SWG). I was able to organically find a playstyle that I enjoyed by building a template in that skill-based system. So to me, a "trinity" system feels like a dumbed down game in many ways; an easy button for players that allows them to not have to think very far outside the box to succeed. The slew of online guides for "How to Tank" or "Healing 101" is what I point to. These guides are not often suggestions as much as they seem to be step-by-step instructions.
I really hope Turbine does not go this route.
Lol, they will. I even gave you guys a linked to the main gameplay devs stating they will head there. They aren't going to say for example captains are going to be healers only.
Here is what is confirmed, each class will get tree sets. Now unlike the current system we have now, with the revamp you will only choose one tree set (i think there will be like two or three). So if one tree is dps then you are dps, not a healer or tank. If the other tree you choose is healer then you will only be healer.
My speculation regarding trees:
champion - dps, tanking, aoe tree
Guardian - dps, tanking
minstrel - dps, healing
rk - dps, healing
captains - dps, healing, buff
lm - dps, CC tree, support
warden - idk
burglar - idk
The devs said you can't do everything at once, so pick wisely when specing. And you can always respec so you aren't doomed. This is a bad approach but i know turbine are retards and i support their decision because they can't get class/balance right. Might as well go the easy way and do the trinity.
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
Thanks guys for the heads up on all this. I appreciate the OP for starting the thread and for the links provided by other Posters. I stopped even reading the LotRO Forums when I got into an argument on PMs with one of the Staff just before the F2P conversion. Hardly ever read them at all now. I do still play LotRO, and more so recently again.
I too think it's very risky to rock this boat this far into the journey. Here is some of my opinions on all this news.
Some of you have mentioned that Turbine should replace the game engine. I agree it's needed, however, replacing the aging game engine will cost millions of dollars potentially. WB won't shell out that kind of money ever because WB isn't a MMO Publisher.... not a true one anyways.... they bought Trubine and LotRO.... they are a Movie Production and Distribution empire. WB has no loyalty whatsoever to the MMO Genre. LotRO was bought simply so WB could hold all the cards with Tolkien's "art work" on the back. WB bought Turbine for control. I will say for the record that I think WB has made some very good decisions in some aspects since they bought Turbine, so I have been impressed more than I thought I would be.
What I think this change to the Trait system is all about is this: What WB Turbine is doing now is streamlining LotRO for profits so they can justify to themselves the money it is going to take to get LotRO to "Mordor". Devs spending manhours on balancing a detailed trait system like LotRO's costs money. I never believed WB had any real clue what they were getting into when they bought a MMO as far as how much it would really cost them. Now they know more, hence the decision to make these changes. As for whether WB realizes the impact of these changes is doubtful... I highly doubt any of the Suits that made this decision actually play LotRO (or any MMO), so I doubt they will ever appreciate the Trait system that LotRO has now, so they won't miss it when it's gone. These changes aren't a game play decision, it's a business decision, as unfortunate as that will be.
Besides... now in 2013 (and before this to be honest) the wants and needs of the customer really doesn't matter to Businesses.... because let's face it.... it is far too easy now to drop your existing customer base in favor of a bigger one that will help you make more profits. This is what is driving the decisions at WB Turbine and it's clear to see. WB knows they will lose some of the existing customers, they know this and accept it. WB is confident that if they make LotRO more like what WoW was, they will get more new customers to offset the losses and make a tidy profit.
Mind you I do NOT like all of this... I actually abhor it, the whole way MMOs are managed and all. Managing a MMO should be about creating and operating a great MMO that Players love and tell their friends, their family, even their Granmothers about, and get them to play. This was how WoW became what it became. Instead managing MMOs now is all profit first before the People that are the customers. I know this is what is going on in the genre and I know it won't change just because I (We) don't like it. The last time I really complained to a MMO Staff member directly about how a MMO was managed I was told I was "Tilting at Windmills" by Patience. Our complaints will fall on Ears closed on purpose.
I will wait and see what's left after the dust settles, until then I will play LotRO and enjoy it.