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Should there be hunger in an mmorpg?
benseine
Member UncommonPosts: 293
In this weeks behind the scenes edition of Gloria Victis the devs asked the fans if there should be hunger in Gloria Victis. A medieval sandbox mmorpg that aims for realism and low fantasy.
Would you like to see something like this in mmorpgs?
Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=599578913400599&id=352162408142252
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Comments
It depends on how it's implemented. If being satiated adds a bonus of some kind - learn faster, higher stamina, damage bonus, etc - then it sounds like an interesting addition, however that already exists in most MMOs in one form or another.
If it means penalties if you aren't regularly eating then i can see it a positive part of a survival MMO, but a detraction from gameplay in most others which is why most MMOs have moved away from that type of mechanics in new MMOs and removed it from older ones.
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Would be a great way to stimulate socializing at inns and such.
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In certain instances, I can see it being a good thing for an MMO.
Especially if you are striving for realism and/or tedium.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
This.
I'm glad I'm not alone in this process. I've played games where food gives bonuses but not eating food shouldn't hinder if you ask me. Sure it's not as realistic but I play for entertainment not realism. Sometimes realism can provide entertainment and that's good but when it causes annoyances that's bad.
Different people want different things. Personally I have no interest in uber realism. Do they need to go the the bathroom as well? Will they crap their pants if they don't take off their armour every 6 hours? Will that lead to illness?
I mean really, where does it stop?
For me, that level of realism isn't necessary or fun. But for others that kind of micro-management might interest them. Probably the same kind of people that get hooked on Sim City.
No. I doubt it is going to add to the fun factor.
Adding realism for realism sake is not entertaining. Since we are at it, shall the game add "going to toilet" too? You know, it is realistic.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Agreed , it adds many elements both on the side of having to carry food/water with you to keep from starving and then on the buff/crafting side for professions that go that route.
While every mmo doesn't have to be the same , and it's fine to make "lite" city hub , instanced, port everywhere ones without this sort, I'd prefer ones that go the virtual world route and include these types of mechanics through and through.
Combine in encumbrance is another thing also , being able to tote around 6700 gold coins , 14 sets of armor in 20 bags and so on just is something I'd like to see cause issues also.
EQ at launch had hunger/thirst , encumbrance that depended on your strength rating and so on , as in finger waggling wizard was going to come to a standstill quicker than a warrior and so on.
Just combined little touches like this always added up to me a much more enjoyable virtual world experience for my gameplay preference.
There's really no functional difference between food management and any other buff/debuff management (potions, auras, etc) except that the default is a slow death. It can be fun to manage, it can be tedious to manage. It can start fun and become tedious.
I like the idea of food management being something that can be automated with survival skills passively replenishing your ration packs - you only need to micromanage it when exploring into unfamiliar/hostile terrain or when entering a region gripped by famine.
I would guess those who like virtual worlds think hunger should matter; those that prefer "games" would not like hunger.
Let me answer with a resounding YES. So glad someone posted this. I think it'd be great to have the mass production of food an entire career. Sort of like you have
trader-careers in Eve. And starvation should have a significant penalty. Not put you into a death spiral; but have all your stats at 1 or put combat effectiveness at 1.
Anything you put into a game that adds interdependence is a good thing. No more infinitely available food at NPCs.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
It depends on the setting and the design goals of the game system.
How was this handled in the past?
In some (but not all) older RPGs you had this game element. The player had to take care to carry enough rations for himself or the whole party. With time the characters grew "hungry" (i.e. if the food ran out the characters started losing health). Eventually the characters died when not eating or running out of food. A variation of this concept was the need to drink water regularly in a desert setting.
What did that really mean in game terms? In some RPGs food was simply an additional "stat" that had to be replenished from time to time (e.g. Ultima). In other RPGs food rations blocked inventory slots (e.g. Dungeon Hack) and increased a character's encumbrance. The effect of it was that it limited the action radius of the player. The player had to get familiar with the game world when exploring the open world / dungeons. The food had to last for the journey and back to a safe haven.
In other games it was more or less a timer. The player couldn't just rest and heal up after every single fight or the food would run out -> death (D&D with its resting mechanic could easily be abused in this way). If food would take up invetory slots then the player had to think about what to carry along and what to leave behind (eventually coming back to pick things up later).
How could it benefit MMOs?
As others have pointed out it could turn inns and markets into social hubs. If everyone needs to buy food regularly then players have an incentive to regularly visit those areas. Where lots of people meet there will be lots of opportunities for chatting, annoyance, trading, guild recruitment and party formation.
On the other hand with all of today's convenience features (e.g. group finder tools, in-game-stores in F2P games, auction house without the need to find appropriate NPCs, etc.) would it really be a meaningful addition?
For me this concept has some appeal. But only if it fits the game and seamlessly blends in with the game's overall conception.
A player driven economy has its advantages. But unfortunately there is the danger that too few might be available due to too few players playing the game. On the other hand what would you do vs. a monopoly which is upheld by a player group / guild? Such events might affect the game's climate one way or another (e.g. virtual "civil unrest").
I disagree with this. It's not just a question of gameplay, it's a question of where you want a player's attention focused. Micromanagement of bodily functions is not automatically the best way to make the world feel alive.
@Arclan yeah idd and imagine this game with a dynamic weather system with 4 seasons that affect your gameplay (fog, frost, heat, winds) but also migration of mobs and available vegetation...
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Let's agree to disagree. If you asked 100 virtual-world fans and 100 "game" fans, I think the results would be fairly conclusive (and you obviously disagree). But it is rediculous to mention "bodily functions." Lots of games implement food and drink but none has "bodily functions" like waste disposal, expectorating, reproduction, nose picking, etc.
@Bensein, yes adding seasons and migrations would be a great addition, too.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Sims does. (jest)
Think your point stands valid though. Emulation of some principles in life helps to create a sense of more immersion, and helps create a general layer of complexity through a new thing to manage.
There is a limit on how many things and to what depth they should be emulated though. The more of a simulation the game is, the less you spend time doing other activities.
When the focus of the game is on the micro-management like the Sims or Don't Starve, that's not so much an issue. Not all game types want to be overly dedicated to the micro-management though, it needs to coexist alongside other gameplay elements that call for a different focus and a different pace.
The survival mods for Skyrim, Fallout, etc, are somewhat examples of this. IT's fun to use them to create a sense that the player you're tooling about with is a bit more 'real', but it can't be to the point where you have to take breaks every fifteen minutes to 'fuel up'.
The endurance of a character essentially has to be exaggerated so that the micro-management can become an additional aspect instead of an interfering one.
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I was going to make a mock UI interface with all of the bodily function bars on it to show how ridiculously out of place and unrealistic it might actually be in practice, but I decided it was way too much work to make a simple point.
I would argue that seeing that you are hungry, need to go to the bathroom or are tired would just add extra bars, meters, a line of text or whatever that would help to remove you from the immersive world instead of making you feel part of it. It seems to work ok in a simulation game like The Sims where the game is basically about managing needs, but it would feel far more out of place in an MMORPG if your intention is to feel immersed.
Is that allowed? *wanders off to check forum rules*
Managing food stock is not a fun part of an adventure, for me of course. And if i have to back-track just because i run out of food, and won't be able to run the dungeon, i doubt it would be any fun for me.
Managing inventory (food, ammo, you name it) is really not that much fun in a combat fantasy game because it is not challenging (how difficult is it to count, and put in a quantity) and it is a chore (oh i have to port to town to stock up on arrows AGAIN!). That is why ammo is taken out of WOW, and not implemented in many games. Or in some FPS, they gave you so much ammo that you may as well have infinite amount.
And stuff in literature does not always translate well into games. A paragraph in a book can talk about your party got lost and have to endure hunger and fatigue for days trying to find a way out of the jungle. Do you want to run around in a jungle for days without anything else to do in a game? I don't.
Would you just click and drag a stack of food to a slot like EQ and keep replacing the stack without any threat of ever running out? At that point you are never at risk of actually being hungry and the whole system is extraneous. It becomes a limited time piece of gear that you need to wear or you will get a little debuff box that pops up.