In the old days the Tyranids were controlled by a GM instead of a player. I have seen them change the focus of a fight before and it was epic. Imagine a slug fest between Orks and Marines to only have the Tyranids come out of nowhere and have a three way battle.
Also, it has been known in the past that Eldar, Marines, Orks (VERY rare) have teamed up to fight Tyranids before. Something about Giant Swaths of bugs destroying everything in its path tend to unite enemies.
The problem with having all F2P players on the Ork side is that if (hypothetically) all the factions are balanced in both power and numbers (paying players) on a server, then the Orks will have the number advantage because of them having the only F2P player class.
This F2P with ork boys is quite a hilarius take on a absurd concept. Now this is the DEFINITION on P2W; 5 ork boys vs 1 Space marine... Why does developer after developer destroy this wonderful IP with horrible ideas like this? Are GW just greedy or lack the experience?
This is an unimaginable take on this "F2P" concept. And guess what, they even dare to call it "F2P PREMIUM". This just tastes bad and should be put to sleep as soon as possible; 18 months till open beta? Either the engine was pre-ordered from an equal horrible game, maybe NWN or the late Archage, and remodded it. Or it might just be ugly and buggy during the 6months(!!!!!!!) open beta, which Iam sure requires a "Founders Pack" or something for 200$ like any other F2P game these days.
This F2P with ork boys is quite a hilarius take on a absurd concept. Now this is the DEFINITION on P2W; 5 ork boys vs 1 Space marine... Why does developer after developer destroy this wonderful IP with horrible ideas like this? Are GW just greedy or lack the experience?
This is an unimaginable take on this "F2P" concept. And guess what, they even dare to call it "F2P PREMIUM". This just tastes bad and should be put to sleep as soon as possible; 18 months till open beta? Either the engine was pre-ordered from an equal horrible game, maybe NWN or the late Archage, and remodded it. Or it might just be ugly and buggy during the 6months(!!!!!!!) open beta, which Iam sure requires a "Founders Pack" or something for 200$ like any other F2P game these days.
It is Pay2Win cant argue with that lol, but in this case its transparent and painfully obvious to get people to sub IF they like the gameplay, look, and/or lore.
I dont really have an issue with this, since they can easily just make the game sub-based, or buy to play, with a very restricted "Free Trial". I like that they are making a F2P option that is unique, hilarious, transparent, and lore compliant.
They are also at least offering a free option for the poor or self-entitled to play for free! Whats the saying? "Beggars cant be choosers" lol
I will take this system over F2P with a year long treadmill grind to be of equal power...although thats assuming they dont do that...which they may :'(
Honestly I look forward to playing as an Ork...even as an underpowered Ork Boy with all my friends ganking Space Marines lol.
I only have issues with systems like this when they try to conceal it while thinking they are being so clever to influence buying power. Plus, it is not set in stone until release, especially after they see the amount of recoil customers will undoubtedly have, much like seen in this thread.
They should really just rephrase it from F2P Option into "Limited Trial" and there would be much less knee jerk going on lol.
The F2P model sounds weird, I don't think it will work. Players won't have fun getting dominated by pay to play players, and will likely not stick around long enough to get attached enough to the game to want to spend money on it. They will most likely have to change the model in order for it to work. I mean, it's kinda cute that they are trying to emulate how orks have greater numbers but weaker base units with this method, and in theory it sounds great. I just don't think it will work from a business and playerbase perspective. Also, lesser demons for Chaos and Imperial Guard for Space Marines could fill the same purpose for F2P players, though I'm not sure what an Eldar equivalent would be.
That said, almost everything else is pretty much exactly what I want from a WH40k MMO. Pretty much almost everything. I do have concerns about their ability to add additional races with this setup, as most likely whatever new race they add will be flooded with players and unbalance the campaigns for a while until things settle down. But it might help give the new race an initial boost due to the temporary numbers advantage.
I do hope that in the midst of these battles there are lots of NPC's often as well, to inflate the size of the battles. The idea of even 32 or 64 on 32 or 64 battles in WH40k seems kinda small. Like, some battles could be smaller incursions, with only players, but there should absolutely be mega battles with tons of NPC's on both sides to make some epic battles over major installations.
there will be rage upon the F2P model, is somewhat unjust, free players only orcs? Space marine and Chaos Space Marine, should be Imperium(Imperial Guard and Space Marine) and Chaos(Renegades, Heretic and Chaos Space Marines), and eldar as premium race.
The Guardsmen could be the F2P players while space marine are the Premium/Paid player.
the same with the Renegades guardsmen and the chaos space marine.
I'd pay extra for Space marines if they get access to Terminator Armor at end game and have exclusive access to Space Hulk Instances so I can recreate playing the old board game
I'd still like access to playing an Inquisitor though >.<
Originally posted by Postal13 Oh man, there is going to be a SHITLOAD of Ork Boyz!!!
oh yes just imagine the epicness of shoving ur chainsaw sword in the Freeloaders and kids asses.
it's typical disgusting F2P behavoir like this that will ruin this game. Buying power as a crutch because you're bad at playing...who the hell thought this up is an idiot.
Don't whine about limited f2p access, its a game, a business, not a god damn charity. These people don't spend months working deadlines so that you can download the game, check out all the content for free and say meh, fuck it, ill go play something else.
You people have some ridiculous expectations. Its free, quit whining. And don't be so god damn cheap, how much might access to space marines cost? 10 dollars? The price of a few cola cans or a few bags of chips? Come on, get serious.
Then these fucking idiots should have made it a buy to play with a 50 or 60 dollar price tag and a cash shop with comestics...not obvious power buying and shitty P2W mechanics that will kill and gut the game quicker than a bass given to two hobos with a box cutter.
while it might not be "set in stone"... unless a majority of people voice just how terrible this payment scheme is, it wont change.
im rather sad how many people like this idea... but of course almost every single reply in support of this model is from the side of someone who wants to p2win.
i want to buy the box... i will pay a sub for a good game (or cosmetic items if no sub)
just give me a real 5 way brawl that starts everyone on an equal foot and let skill, teamwork, and dedication determine the winner.
I'm a massive fan of the Warhammer franchise, as well as WarHammer: 40k .
I can kind of understand the idea of the orks being FTP lore wise to generate higher numbers, but it's a terrible idea in terms of player satisfaction. I approve of a previous post about giving the lower ranks to FTP players too, scouts and grunts etc. To offer some diversity but not offering the full experience of the more advanced players, where inevitably the fun will be. Maybe even possibly giving at least one extra race to try for FTP's.
I'm concerned that on top of the restrictions to orks alone, that we have to further pay per race.... now of course costs could ease my concern slightly, if it was £10, $10 per race. and providing it was a permanent unlock, I think that's justifiable. but if we're looking at anything over $15- per race... then we will be looking at a greed based developer team, and there's no way im getting involved .
Cosmetics are a given for any FTP model. Weapon skins, armor's ship addons etc...
Right now, they are calling this a premium FTP model. I disagree, right now this is pay over and over to get stronger model.
If this was premium FTP, I'd expect something similar to, Free, Silver, Gold memberships.
Free- limited
Silver - Average sub price- Upgraded - Some Extras (maybe not most popular races/classes)
Gold - Full Sub Price - Full Access + Extra Benefits (Discounted CS, exclusive skins, and or advanced classes)
I am not a FTP hater I expect FTP players to be restricted ! So don't freak out on me over that, I just think right now, they are screaming greed and they will scare people away.
It all comes down to prices.... I'm negatively cautious of their direction. FTP is fine, but is dangerously hard to get right.
The pricing sounds like warhammer milking it. Did you really play tabletop?
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because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
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This game could be cool if they picked a better SM chapter. Honestly, it should have been the Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors. Have the supposedly best space marine chapter at defending things (Fists) against the siege masters (Iron Warriors). Something abut an unstoppable force and an immovable object comes to mind. As for the other races i feel that most people will be playing it to be marines even though Elder and Orks are popular. These two just don't have the fan following as the Space Marines. I would have preferred to play a Tyranid over the other two non-marine races available. Optimal race setup IMO should have been having Imperial Fists (playable), Eldar (Playable), vs Iron Warriors (playable), Dark Eldar (playable). After that you could have the Tyranids and Orks be NPC factions that more or less are there to keep the balance by attacking the races that are becoming too strong.
I have a few points to make to the people complaining about pay to win.
1. You are assuming there will be equal sides in a battle.
In most shooters, its 32 vs 32 or 8v8 or whatever. The reason you need a balanced game in those instances, is because you have the same number of people. If one side is more powerful, it will be immediately evident.
But! if there is no limit on the number of players, its more likely that the orks will outnumber the marines. This will strike a sort of balance.
2. If noone plays the orks, then it doesnt matter anyway.
If noone plays the orks, and its commonly held to be "unfair" and pay to win, then all that remains will be pay to win players. And theyll be balanced.
making orks the free to play faction is genius, and if noone likes it, its a non-issue anyway, since all that will remain are pay to win characters.
But really, lots of people WILL play orks, and theyll outnumber paying characters by alot more than 5 most likely. So if anything, the marines will lose.
This sounds exactly like what I've been hoping for in a 40k mmo. They should make the Imperial Guard FTP as well, at least for the basic troopers, maybe let em play as a ratling squadmate. These guys are going to make a fortune off of me. Thing about all the crazy DLC and microtransaction stuff they can dream up. Space marine chapters, all sorts of sweet 40k litanies and quotations your space marine can bellow while smashing orks to paste.
The lack of customization is another nail in the coffin already. Pretty much every Warhammer game has pretty much given you the ability to customize and said have fun...to strangely LOCK you to one chapter is annoying and really stupid. They talk about how "so for the most part the players ARE the content", how do they make the content if you don't let them be able to customize and restrict them SO much.
The other nail is the obviously BLATANT P2W in every literal sense. AND THEY DIDN"T EVEN TRY TO HIDE THAT FACT.
People who don't want to play orks will obviously buy their way to the faction of their choice...I.E. Space Marine. The ratios will be DESTROYED from day one. When you give one faction the OBVIOUS advantage over the other...people will PLAY THAT FACTION. It's not rocket science...plus people want to play the Space Marines or Chaos or Eldar. While the idea of F2P Orks was great and all it was great on paper not in practice. People will buy themselves out of Orks and into the most powerful factions and in the end orks will be the obvious underpowered and pointless race and will die out.
I don't really need extra chapters. One mistake these games make is allowing players to dye their armor resulting in lots of ugly colors running around.
By keeping one chapter, you can avoid the eyesore of a million chapters running around in a crazy cavalcade of colors.
Originally posted by kraiz DAMNIT! Give me Tau now!
hopefully they will be npc cannonfodder like Tyranids and I suspect Necrons
I think this is part of their business strategy: 4 main races to launch for the core game system. If the numbers and legs warrant it they'll then add more WH40K Armies to expand the game as it'll be modular in terms of expanding and rotating battle grounds. Good plan. And Tau are awesome sauce. 'Nids would be a good Premium account: People would pay good money for them.
They do have access to all of the armies, these are just going to be the ones they launch with. Also, keep in mind that almost every MMO coming out in the future will be some form of FTP / Premium. That is the world we now live in and it is not changing any time soon.
The combat designs in theory are some of the best I have heard of for a 40K MMO yet. Plus the fact that it is planetary control PvP with some PVE thrown in is really awesome.
The core dev team are all table top players.
Everyone is skeptical, but....I think 40K is finally in good hands for MMO development.
Comments
In the old days the Tyranids were controlled by a GM instead of a player. I have seen them change the focus of a fight before and it was epic. Imagine a slug fest between Orks and Marines to only have the Tyranids come out of nowhere and have a three way battle.
Also, it has been known in the past that Eldar, Marines, Orks (VERY rare) have teamed up to fight Tyranids before. Something about Giant Swaths of bugs destroying everything in its path tend to unite enemies.
This F2P with ork boys is quite a hilarius take on a absurd concept. Now this is the DEFINITION on P2W; 5 ork boys vs 1 Space marine... Why does developer after developer destroy this wonderful IP with horrible ideas like this? Are GW just greedy or lack the experience?
This is an unimaginable take on this "F2P" concept. And guess what, they even dare to call it "F2P PREMIUM". This just tastes bad and should be put to sleep as soon as possible; 18 months till open beta? Either the engine was pre-ordered from an equal horrible game, maybe NWN or the late Archage, and remodded it. Or it might just be ugly and buggy during the 6months(!!!!!!!) open beta, which Iam sure requires a "Founders Pack" or something for 200$ like any other F2P game these days.
It is Pay2Win cant argue with that lol, but in this case its transparent and painfully obvious to get people to sub IF they like the gameplay, look, and/or lore.
I dont really have an issue with this, since they can easily just make the game sub-based, or buy to play, with a very restricted "Free Trial". I like that they are making a F2P option that is unique, hilarious, transparent, and lore compliant.
They are also at least offering a free option for the poor or self-entitled to play for free! Whats the saying? "Beggars cant be choosers" lol
I will take this system over F2P with a year long treadmill grind to be of equal power...although thats assuming they dont do that...which they may :'(
Honestly I look forward to playing as an Ork...even as an underpowered Ork Boy with all my friends ganking Space Marines lol.
I only have issues with systems like this when they try to conceal it while thinking they are being so clever to influence buying power. Plus, it is not set in stone until release, especially after they see the amount of recoil customers will undoubtedly have, much like seen in this thread.
They should really just rephrase it from F2P Option into "Limited Trial" and there would be much less knee jerk going on lol.
The F2P model sounds weird, I don't think it will work. Players won't have fun getting dominated by pay to play players, and will likely not stick around long enough to get attached enough to the game to want to spend money on it. They will most likely have to change the model in order for it to work. I mean, it's kinda cute that they are trying to emulate how orks have greater numbers but weaker base units with this method, and in theory it sounds great. I just don't think it will work from a business and playerbase perspective. Also, lesser demons for Chaos and Imperial Guard for Space Marines could fill the same purpose for F2P players, though I'm not sure what an Eldar equivalent would be.
That said, almost everything else is pretty much exactly what I want from a WH40k MMO. Pretty much almost everything. I do have concerns about their ability to add additional races with this setup, as most likely whatever new race they add will be flooded with players and unbalance the campaigns for a while until things settle down. But it might help give the new race an initial boost due to the temporary numbers advantage.
I do hope that in the midst of these battles there are lots of NPC's often as well, to inflate the size of the battles. The idea of even 32 or 64 on 32 or 64 battles in WH40k seems kinda small. Like, some battles could be smaller incursions, with only players, but there should absolutely be mega battles with tons of NPC's on both sides to make some epic battles over major installations.
there will be rage upon the F2P model, is somewhat unjust, free players only orcs? Space marine and Chaos Space Marine, should be Imperium(Imperial Guard and Space Marine) and Chaos(Renegades, Heretic and Chaos Space Marines), and eldar as premium race.
The Guardsmen could be the F2P players while space marine are the Premium/Paid player.
the same with the Renegades guardsmen and the chaos space marine.
I'd pay extra for Space marines if they get access to Terminator Armor at end game and have exclusive access to Space Hulk Instances so I can recreate playing the old board game
I'd still like access to playing an Inquisitor though >.<
I agree Biel-tan would be good or Ulthwé.
But i bet, they picked a minor one, like Mymeara or Lugganath.
And about the race balance: i think its alright, i mean the orks not weak, and there is a saying "Many geese overpower a pig"
and i forsee the rages "but we pay for the race, why is that we are loseing againts f2orkerz?"
Just My 2 Lunars
how about NO F2P garbage at all?
Make it a buy to play title and give everyone a fair chance.
it's typical disgusting F2P behavoir like this that will ruin this game. Buying power as a crutch because you're bad at playing...who the hell thought this up is an idiot.
Then these fucking idiots should have made it a buy to play with a 50 or 60 dollar price tag and a cash shop with comestics...not obvious power buying and shitty P2W mechanics that will kill and gut the game quicker than a bass given to two hobos with a box cutter.
while it might not be "set in stone"... unless a majority of people voice just how terrible this payment scheme is, it wont change.
im rather sad how many people like this idea... but of course almost every single reply in support of this model is from the side of someone who wants to p2win.
i want to buy the box... i will pay a sub for a good game (or cosmetic items if no sub)
just give me a real 5 way brawl that starts everyone on an equal foot and let skill, teamwork, and dedication determine the winner.
The pricing sounds like warhammer milking it. Did you really play tabletop?
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
personally I think the f2p ork boyz idea is fucking genius
I have a few points to make to the people complaining about pay to win.
1. You are assuming there will be equal sides in a battle.
In most shooters, its 32 vs 32 or 8v8 or whatever. The reason you need a balanced game in those instances, is because you have the same number of people. If one side is more powerful, it will be immediately evident.
But! if there is no limit on the number of players, its more likely that the orks will outnumber the marines. This will strike a sort of balance.
2. If noone plays the orks, then it doesnt matter anyway.
If noone plays the orks, and its commonly held to be "unfair" and pay to win, then all that remains will be pay to win players. And theyll be balanced.
making orks the free to play faction is genius, and if noone likes it, its a non-issue anyway, since all that will remain are pay to win characters.
But really, lots of people WILL play orks, and theyll outnumber paying characters by alot more than 5 most likely. So if anything, the marines will lose.
This sounds exactly like what I've been hoping for in a 40k mmo. They should make the Imperial Guard FTP as well, at least for the basic troopers, maybe let em play as a ratling squadmate. These guys are going to make a fortune off of me. Thing about all the crazy DLC and microtransaction stuff they can dream up. Space marine chapters, all sorts of sweet 40k litanies and quotations your space marine can bellow while smashing orks to paste.
Just take my money now.
The lack of customization is another nail in the coffin already. Pretty much every Warhammer game has pretty much given you the ability to customize and said have fun...to strangely LOCK you to one chapter is annoying and really stupid. They talk about how "so for the most part the players ARE the content", how do they make the content if you don't let them be able to customize and restrict them SO much.
The other nail is the obviously BLATANT P2W in every literal sense. AND THEY DIDN"T EVEN TRY TO HIDE THAT FACT.
It's already flawed from the start.
People who don't want to play orks will obviously buy their way to the faction of their choice...I.E. Space Marine. The ratios will be DESTROYED from day one. When you give one faction the OBVIOUS advantage over the other...people will PLAY THAT FACTION. It's not rocket science...plus people want to play the Space Marines or Chaos or Eldar. While the idea of F2P Orks was great and all it was great on paper not in practice. People will buy themselves out of Orks and into the most powerful factions and in the end orks will be the obvious underpowered and pointless race and will die out.
By keeping one chapter, you can avoid the eyesore of a million chapters running around in a crazy cavalcade of colors.
I prefer the military look of uniforms anyway
Personally I got thrilled when I heard it was going to be Dark Angels, as I'm a DA boy.
Moving on...
2 years is a long time, and much can happen during that. So I would not se surprised to see other chapter later on.
And like many others, I'm not too keen on this F2P model where if you want to play anything else then Orkz you have to cahs up.
Although, since it's a F2P, I hope they speak of a 1time payment. If so, I cant see why all the fuss.
As long as I dont need to pay monthly to unlock a race it's better then a subscription and I can save money in the long run.
Well, those are few of my personal thoughts.
EVE Online 21Days Trial
I think this is part of their business strategy: 4 main races to launch for the core game system. If the numbers and legs warrant it they'll then add more WH40K Armies to expand the game as it'll be modular in terms of expanding and rotating battle grounds. Good plan. And Tau are awesome sauce. 'Nids would be a good Premium account: People would pay good money for them.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
They do have access to all of the armies, these are just going to be the ones they launch with. Also, keep in mind that almost every MMO coming out in the future will be some form of FTP / Premium. That is the world we now live in and it is not changing any time soon.
The combat designs in theory are some of the best I have heard of for a 40K MMO yet. Plus the fact that it is planetary control PvP with some PVE thrown in is really awesome.
The core dev team are all table top players.
Everyone is skeptical, but....I think 40K is finally in good hands for MMO development.