Why not beat the guy (or lose) and go about your business. You win some you lose some. YOu can even run, I'm sure there is another node right around the corner. Is it that big of a deal?
Because MMORPG PVP isn't a skillful competition, it's a casual affair where an unskilled chump can be unbeatable in the short-term due to progression or population advantages.
I love PVP.
I hate Bad PVP. MMORPG PVP is Bad PVP.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself.
There's some really good stuff in here Thank you to those who are giving their time.
Your observation is wrong. You read my post, even replied to it and I wrote:
"I never PvP because I don't like the feeling that I'm causing anger or loss for someone else. I hate to win in a PvP match even more than to lose."
That involves being the person that kills. One of my reasons to avoid PvP is that I hate to kill others, it makes me feel really bad. Looting them makes it worse, whenever I killed someone I always gave their stuffs back lol.
Try to get over your preconceptions if you really want to understand why other players dislike PvP. If you only want to prove your prejudices then of course go ahead and read selectively
Whoa whoa whoa, I bolded scenario while thinking about your post., because of you post. I had even put "except one" () but thought you would notice the bold, and it would serve.
I remember running my first "real race" 4th grade field day. I was dusting everyone. I pulled up 10 yrds before the line and let someone else win. It was so noticeable that people where asking me why. I think about that to this day. I felt bad beating them bad.
I feel that way now with senseless killing.
Dude, you create a post asking a question. Many provide you with sincere detailed responses depicting varying reasons why they do not like PvP, and you demean and belittle their responses by editing your original post and adding nonsense?
OK, as to the original question, I'm game to answer. I don't hate PvP, per se, but I don't actively seek it out for several reasons:
1. The seeming ubiquitous presence of griefers, players who do not want a fight. They want a one-sided massacre. I find a match-up with opponents of comparable gear, level, and power to be exciting, but too many PvPers seem to actively seek out fights with opponents far below their power levels just to dominate without a challenge.
2. (And this is the real reason, to be honest) The advancing arthritis in my left hand has left me unable to compete with the necessary level of of reaction time necessary for PvP. In PvE I can anticipate and compensate with alternate controls, but in PvP it puts me at such a considerable disadvantage that to compete I would essentially have to seek out underpowered opponents, and that just has no appeal for me.
3. I'm far more interested in co-operative play than competitive. It's just my preference.
There are different types of PvP players, it's a certain type of player that makes people dislike it. As people have stated, it's the jerk who is 20+ lvls above gankin low lvl characters, standing over your corpse just to kill you over and over. To me this is not gaming but just plain harassment.
*People like different aspects of games, same as in life. I myself like some PvP even if I'm not very good at it, though I would never be the type to just gank someone just because.
*I think there should be a reason for PvP with a thought out story, a point to it besides "just because". There should also be a justice system in place, X-Guy has been killing innocents there is now a bounty, they are not allowed in any city, for set amount of time for every crime they commit. If you are captured and returned to town you will be sentenced and punished.....this makes PvP immersive.
*And just because someone prefers PvE does not make them a "carebear".
CURRENTLY PLAYING |GW2| PLAYED UO:SWG:EQ2:GW:WoW:CoH:Lotro:AoC:Vanguard:Horizons:RIFT:swtor:Shadowbane and I'm sure a few others WATCHING:EQ Next : Wildstar:Archage :WoD WISHING FOR: A UO Remake HAPPILY PLAYING ONLINE SINCE 97.
I play games for entertainment, relaxation and as an escape from the 'dog eat dog' of real life. The last thing I want is to emulate real life BS into my entertainment. I want a stress free gaming environment and that is why I rarely pvp or raid. It's also why I don't care much for twitch style combat or games with harsh penalties.
I am not at all surprised by the reasoning you used in your post Bcbully, your moniker is aptly chosen and so very representative of the sociopathic tendencies of the hardcore pvp segment of the gaming population.
see below
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Demalis
Ok help me out here is this irony, the op with the word bully in his name is asking why some people don't like pvp???
I am not sure if that would classify... But to answer your question, I play rpg's on my time, when I am level 15 getting harassed by three level capped players, it is affecting my game time. I all ways play on a pvp server, but think it is time to switch. Developers are not addressing the many down side effects of open world pvp, I likes the way dayz did the bandit skin. If they could make pvp a little more meaningful and address the grieving factors then I could change my mind.
There is some real irony there lmao good eye. I'm 6'4' 260, and have been in maybe 3 fight my entire life, and I didnt start those. The name is the name of my first fantasy football team. We finished second, so I stayed with it.
Kids laugh when I try to discipline them lol... Yeah though, the irony. My friends used to get a kick out the name.
I'm a gamer PvP and PvE. You are no threat. Plus you post like a clicker, slow on your attack.
OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself.
There's some really good stuff in here Thank you to those who are giving their time.
Your observation is wrong. You read my post, even replied to it and I wrote:
"I never PvP because I don't like the feeling that I'm causing anger or loss for someone else. I hate to win in a PvP match even more than to lose."
That involves being the person that kills. One of my reasons to avoid PvP is that I hate to kill others, it makes me feel really bad. Looting them makes it worse, whenever I killed someone I always gave their stuffs back lol.
Try to get over your preconceptions if you really want to understand why other players dislike PvP. If you only want to prove your prejudices then of course go ahead and read selectively
Whoa whoa whoa, I bolded scenario while thinking about your post., because of you post. I had even put "except one" () but thought you would notice the bold, and it would serve.
I remember running my first "real race" 4th grade field day. I was dusting everyone. I pulled up 10 yrds before the line and let someone else win. It was so noticeable that people where asking me why. I think about that to this day. I felt bad beating them bad.
I feel that way now with senseless killing.
Ah ok, sorry I didn't notice the word scenario was bolded. But even if I had noticed I probably would have missed its meaning, it wasn't that obvious for me Makes more sense now.
I play games for entertainment, relaxation and as an escape from the 'dog eat dog' of real life. The last thing I want is to emulate real life BS into my entertainment. I want a stress free gaming environment and that is why I rarely pvp or raid. It's also why I don't care much for twitch style combat or games with harsh penalties.
I am not at all surprised by the reasoning you used in your post Bcbully, your moniker is aptly chosen and so very representative of the sociopathic tendencies of the hardcore pvp segment of the gaming population.
see below
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Demalis
Ok help me out here is this irony, the op with the word bully in his name is asking why some people don't like pvp???
I am not sure if that would classify... But to answer your question, I play rpg's on my time, when I am level 15 getting harassed by three level capped players, it is affecting my game time. I all ways play on a pvp server, but think it is time to switch. Developers are not addressing the many down side effects of open world pvp, I likes the way dayz did the bandit skin. If they could make pvp a little more meaningful and address the grieving factors then I could change my mind.
There is some real irony there lmao good eye. I'm 6'4' 260, and have been in maybe 3 fight my entire life, and I didnt start those. The name is the name of my first fantasy football team. We finished second, so I stayed with it.
Kids laugh when I try to discipline them lol... Yeah though, the irony. My friends used to get a kick out the name.
I'm a gamer PvP and PvE. You are no threat. Plus you post like a clicker, slow on your attack.
Hahaha.....hit too close to the mark, huh. Weak arguers always resort to insults.
OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself.
There's some really good stuff in here Thank you to those who are giving their time.
Your observation is wrong. You read my post, even replied to it and I wrote:
"I never PvP because I don't like the feeling that I'm causing anger or loss for someone else. I hate to win in a PvP match even more than to lose."
That involves being the person that kills. One of my reasons to avoid PvP is that I hate to kill others, it makes me feel really bad. Looting them makes it worse, whenever I killed someone I always gave their stuffs back lol.
Try to get over your preconceptions if you really want to understand why other players dislike PvP. If you only want to prove your prejudices then of course go ahead and read selectively
Whoa whoa whoa, I bolded scenario while thinking about your post., because of you post. I had even put "except one" () but thought you would notice the bold, and it would serve.
I remember running my first "real race" 4th grade field day. I was dusting everyone. I pulled up 10 yrds before the line and let someone else win. It was so noticeable that people where asking me why. I think about that to this day. I felt bad beating them bad.
I feel that way now with senseless killing.
Actually you're assessment is still wrong as most people said it was because most of the PvP community is made up of unpleasant people who use foul language and are just generally mean spirited. Nothing kills the mood like being surrounded by people who are nasty to you.
I used to love PvP in SWG. It seemed meaningful back when I did it. I think I only liked it then because of the whole Rebel vs. Empire thing. But, now I would rather watch paint dry. Doing the same old thing over and over again in todays MMO's gets old fast for me. Like someone already said, if I wanted to PvP, I would play call of duty or something like that.
Originally posted by free2play Nobody hates PvP. People don't like forced PvP. It's a shoddy way to throttle weak PvE content. Having to stop and entertain some jughead when all you logged in to do was chop some trees or farm some hides.
i like the PVP that most folks dont like (eve and DF style pvp) but i absolutely loathe arena matches in wow and content like that.
because you dont lose anything if you lose and you dont win anything if you win.
edit: i agree with the people who mention the community but implore them to actively search for a good community in a pvp game and it will be found. even if it means having to search through a knee deep kiddypool of douches. i love friendly guilds who help one another and who don't grief and i've been in one of those every pvp game i've played.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
I love PvP. What I hate is badly implemented PvP like people are advocating for EQN.
Games where you can grief players who are massively under your power level are lame. I want a challenging fight, isnt that the whole point of PvP? To pit yourself against human intelligence? Where is the satisfaction in killing someone who had no chance to fight back in the first place?
Furthermore, I hate how unrealistic FFA servers are. People say its so they can have 'free choice'. You have free choice in the real world, but if you acted like a mass murdering maniac in real life, your 'character' would get deleted pretty quickly. If you want to go down the FFA route, you need VERY harsh penalties.
Probably even permadeath for outlaws. Isn't that what they want? A thrill? Of course not, they just want to grief with no penalties.
I hope that EQN brings in meaningful consensual PvP. Rather than mindless FFA backstabbing.
Edit: Also my advocation for consensual PvP in EQN has nothing to do with my PvP prowess. I do very well at PvP. In most games I was able to kill whole groups of players while solo. I still have fond memories of killing a whole group of Alliance repeatedly while leveling up my Shadow Priest. One of them made a character on the Horde side just to send me a lovely letter wishing that I get ass-cancer. Also I loved competitive PvP in games like GW1 and LoL where everyone is on an equal playing field.
It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Is it because -
You lose a lot?
You can't get better?
It's scary?
To much adrenalin?
It makes you angry?
PvP'rs are mean?
Outside of "I just don't like it" which is not an explanation, this is what I ask myself when I hear someone say "I wish there was no pvp"
I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works.
Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.
Update - Top reasons
Lack of time
Mean player/ Nasty attitudes
OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself.
There's some really good stuff in here Thank you to those who are giving their time.
Please rephrase this with a definition of what you call PvP. My guess is that your pvp is different from mine. I played Dark Age of Camelot - I loved LOVED pvp. But that was truly pvp for a more mature adult (not always!) audience with the sort of logical things that happen when a kingdom exists in an mmorpg (there are walls, siege warfare, and lots LOTS of races and classes under truly separate banners)...You could help your realm in pvp through a variety of methods, and on the adverse, your pvp successes reflected even on those players who were the no names and low levels of the game in terms of coin, and so forth. There was mad purpose to this pvp and a cool sense of realm pride.
The pvp I am assuming (tell me if I'm wrong) you enjoy is where Bob the family man is leveling is toon in some corn field (after a long day of work, and several hours with the kids...chores;..helping with homework, and so forth) and you have show up with your uber toon - after grinding all day long...happy to finally relax and just grief "noobs" and then proceed to call them care bears when they leave...This is pvp that only self gratifies, and allows for folks to "e-sport" rage on players who really can't compete due to real life challenges.
Now - that was a fairly rude generalization I gave of what I assume is the pvp you are speaking of. I don't intend to be rude, friend, but if the latter paragraph is what you call pvp then yeah - it's crap.
It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Is it because -
You lose a lot?
You can't get better?
It's scary?
To much adrenalin?
It makes you angry?
PvP'rs are mean?
Outside of "I just don't like it" which is not an explanation, this is what I ask myself when I hear someone say "I wish there was no pvp"
I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works.
Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.
Update - Top reasons
Lack of time
Mean player/ Nasty attitudes
OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself.
There's some really good stuff in here Thank you to those who are giving their time.
Please rephrase this with a definition of what you call PvP. My guess is that your pvp is different from mine. I played Dark Age of Camelot - I loved LOVED pvp. But that was truly pvp for a more mature adult (not always!) audience with the sort of logical things that happen when a kingdom exists in an mmorpg (there are walls, siege warfare, and lots LOTS of races and classes under truly separate banners)...You could help your realm in pvp through a variety of methods, and on the adverse, your pvp successes reflected even on those players who were the no names and low levels of the game in terms of coin, and so forth. There was mad purpose to this pvp and a cool sense of realm pride.
The pvp I am assuming (tell me if I'm wrong) you enjoy is where Bob the family man is leveling is toon in some corn field (after a long day of work, and several hours with the kids...chores;..helping with homework, and so forth) and you have show up with your uber toon - after grinding all day long...happy to finally relax and just grief "noobs" and then proceed to call them care bears when they leave...This is pvp that only self gratifies, and allows for folks to "e-sport" rage on players who really can't compete due to real life challenges.
Now - that was a fairly rude generalization I gave of what I assume is the pvp you are speaking of. I don't intend to be rude, friend, but if the latter paragraph is what you call pvp then yeah - it's crap.
To put it into context, BCBully plays and advocates for Age of Wushu. AoW actually has a fantastic risk / reward / punishment system for open world PvP. What he doesnt realise is that most of the people against it are talking about grief prone systems more akin to Darkfall or Mortal Online.
AoW is a good step forward in terms of open world PvP, but I think punishments for criminals could stand to be a bit harsher and better fleshed out (forcing them into outlaw camps and being unable to affiliate themselves with anyone from a lawful faction etc).
Two good examples that could be worked in to a game to solve this problem people have with pvp.
Everquest 1 had great rules for pvp. You could only make the initial attack on players 5 lvls lower then your lvl and anyone above that. They had a few other rules I liked as well. For instance you couldn't one shot anyone. I believe you could only damage a person for 75% of their max health with one hit. My numbers might be off, but that is roughly what it was. Sure loopholes like being grouped with someone higher existed, but that can be worked out.
The other game was SWG. You chose when to go overt (pvp) by visiting a NPC and this was for unlimited time or until death (If I remember right). Or if you attacked a Factional NPC or helped (healed/buffed) an overt faction member you would become overt for a period of time after you last attacked an opposite faction or helped an overt team faction.
With the SWG style there would be no fear of pvp while you are out doing pve. The Eq style still gives you the danger, fear and excitement while knowing that you don't have to worry about someone at a greater advantage in lvls then you attacking.
while im a pve person, i dont hate pvp. I enjoy a fair open world pvp when im doing my pve questing (it keeps the challenge going on and varied between ai and actual players (both solo 1v1 and in small group encounters while questing in the same contested areas).
What i do hate with a passion is the unfair pvp where overpowered high level jerks one shot lower level people that they know dont give them any reward but they just like to be dicks and ruin other people's experience. If these players were in some way prevented form attacking lower level players in open world pvp i would be totally ok with open world fair pvp.
I think the best way to combat opwn world pvp gankers that one shot low level players is by downscaling the character to the zone they enter like GW2 did, but make it more in depth so stats also downscale a bit. Therefore, always providing a fair fight no matter the encounter. The winner will be of course the player with better knowledge and excecution of their character mechanics.
I love playing a MMO at my pace,doing PvE and PvP when i feel like it.
I hate when i´m gathering resources...or just exploring and i get ganked by 3 or 4 high level players... hate that!
The game that i hated the most for that reason was Aion...omg...so annoying... and it gets even worse when they wait for you to res to kill you again and again...
Where is the fun in that? Where is the fair PvP in that?
Sadly it happens in every single forced open PvP game,and that´s why i avoid them.
The freedom allotted in FFA PvP or Open-world PvP is too great of a responsibility for some players to bear. Abusers most often take it for granted in meaning they get to use it however they choose. And that's fine, but doing so negatively, does come with a heavy cost. And it's exactly this cost that they never think about. Especially when it comes to mindset of their more PvE oriented neighbors and their views of seeing FFA/open-world PvP as a overall positive feature. They simply chalk it up as carebear whining when they complain about ramped abuse and move on to their next target. But what happens when the targets start to avoid mmorpgs with this feature?
Instead of that freedom being used as an outlet for negative reasons like frustrations, boredom and griefing. Why are less and less of the more positive ways rarely witnessed as much in open-world/FFA PvP mmorpgs like RPing, settling in-game player conflicts or territorial control anymore?. And no, you having a bad day and killing someone in-game does not count as settling in-game player conflicts.
And it's unfortunately those negative reasons that most players who do not put as much stock into FFA/open-wprld PvP are exposed to. It's like the chat feature in mmorpgs. As it is now, chatting has little to no restrictions as to what you can type. Well almost no restrictions, but for the most part you can type whatever you like. Many do not because certain things could get you banned. A norm has been established within the bounds of the game that a majority of players adhere to and this norm is backed up by a system to keep the more colorful abusers out there in check. There is no norm or system in place to keep PvP in check and until that day this is one freedom that needs to be limited.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I personally dont prefer it because i tend to play rpg mmo's. In those games I believe It should be the players against whatever enemy is in the game and not one player against another. I prefer to team up with people not fight against them. But that is in a fantasy rpg type game. If you want pvp go play call of duty.
It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Is it because -
You lose a lot?
You can't get better?
It's scary?
To much adrenalin?
It makes you angry?
PvP'rs are mean?
Outside of "I just don't like it" which is not an explanation, this is what I ask myself when I hear someone say "I wish there was no pvp"
I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works.
Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.
Update - Top reasons
Lack of time
Mean player/ Nasty attitudes
OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself.
There's some really good stuff in here Thank you to those who are giving their time.
Please rephrase this with a definition of what you call PvP. My guess is that your pvp is different from mine. I played Dark Age of Camelot - I loved LOVED pvp. But that was truly pvp for a more mature adult (not always!) audience with the sort of logical things that happen when a kingdom exists in an mmorpg (there are walls, siege warfare, and lots LOTS of races and classes under truly separate banners)...You could help your realm in pvp through a variety of methods, and on the adverse, your pvp successes reflected even on those players who were the no names and low levels of the game in terms of coin, and so forth. There was mad purpose to this pvp and a cool sense of realm pride.
The pvp I am assuming (tell me if I'm wrong) you enjoy is where Bob the family man is leveling is toon in some corn field (after a long day of work, and several hours with the kids...chores;..helping with homework, and so forth) and you have show up with your uber toon - after grinding all day long...happy to finally relax and just grief "noobs" and then proceed to call them care bears when they leave...This is pvp that only self gratifies, and allows for folks to "e-sport" rage on players who really can't compete due to real life challenges.
Now - that was a fairly rude generalization I gave of what I assume is the pvp you are speaking of. I don't intend to be rude, friend, but if the latter paragraph is what you call pvp then yeah - it's crap.
To put it into context, BCBully plays and advocates for Age of Wushu. AoW actually has a fantastic risk / reward / punishment system for open world PvP. What he doesnt realise is that most of the people against it are talking about grief prone systems more akin to Darkfall or Mortal Online.
AoW is a good step forward in terms of open world PvP, but I think punishments for criminals could stand to be a bit harsher and better fleshed out (forcing them into outlaw camps and being unable to affiliate themselves with anyone from a lawful faction etc).
As someone who loathes FFA or non-consensual PvP I would be tempted to play a game such as AoW, if it truly does what Bc says it does. The issue then becomes the community because until a paradigm shift happens in the MMO genre where the average mentality of the PvP'er goes from Douchey to pleasant it will still be a hard sale for me.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Personally, I am just not a competitive person. I would rather play in a cooperative, more helpful way with other players, rather than against them.
I get no thrills from "play killing" pixels on my screen, be it an NPC or another player. I can enjoy combat. Winning a tough fight is fun, don't get me wrong, but it is not the reason I log into an MMO.
The very few times I have PvP'd with friends, it was about trying to make the other guy laugh with our antics, not win. The whole "PvP scene" has a bad reputation of attracting the type of "overly competitive" players I try to avoid. This is not to say every PvPer is this way, but there are enough involved I have no desire to be anywhere near it.
Just different strokes, I guess.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
Because MMORPG PVP isn't a skillful competition, it's a casual affair where an unskilled chump can be unbeatable in the short-term due to progression or population advantages.
I love PVP.
I hate Bad PVP. MMORPG PVP is Bad PVP.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Dude, you create a post asking a question. Many provide you with sincere detailed responses depicting varying reasons why they do not like PvP, and you demean and belittle their responses by editing your original post and adding nonsense?
Real classy of you, Mr. pro non consensual PvPer.
OK, as to the original question, I'm game to answer. I don't hate PvP, per se, but I don't actively seek it out for several reasons:
1. The seeming ubiquitous presence of griefers, players who do not want a fight. They want a one-sided massacre. I find a match-up with opponents of comparable gear, level, and power to be exciting, but too many PvPers seem to actively seek out fights with opponents far below their power levels just to dominate without a challenge.
2. (And this is the real reason, to be honest) The advancing arthritis in my left hand has left me unable to compete with the necessary level of of reaction time necessary for PvP. In PvE I can anticipate and compensate with alternate controls, but in PvP it puts me at such a considerable disadvantage that to compete I would essentially have to seek out underpowered opponents, and that just has no appeal for me.
3. I'm far more interested in co-operative play than competitive. It's just my preference.
There are different types of PvP players, it's a certain type of player that makes people dislike it. As people have stated, it's the jerk who is 20+ lvls above gankin low lvl characters, standing over your corpse just to kill you over and over. To me this is not gaming but just plain harassment.
*People like different aspects of games, same as in life. I myself like some PvP even if I'm not very good at it, though I would never be the type to just gank someone just because.
*I think there should be a reason for PvP with a thought out story, a point to it besides "just because". There should also be a justice system in place, X-Guy has been killing innocents there is now a bounty, they are not allowed in any city, for set amount of time for every crime they commit. If you are captured and returned to town you will be sentenced and punished.....this makes PvP immersive.
*And just because someone prefers PvE does not make them a "carebear".
CURRENTLY PLAYING |GW2|
PLAYED UO:SWG:EQ2:GW:WoW:CoH:Lotro:AoC:Vanguard:Horizons:RIFT:swtor:Shadowbane and I'm sure a few others
WATCHING:EQ Next : Wildstar:Archage :WoD
WISHING FOR: A UO Remake
HAPPILY PLAYING ONLINE SINCE 97.
see below
I'm a gamer PvP and PvE. You are no threat. Plus you post like a clicker, slow on your attack.
Ah ok, sorry I didn't notice the word scenario was bolded. But even if I had noticed I probably would have missed its meaning, it wasn't that obvious for me
Makes more sense now.
Hahaha.....hit too close to the mark, huh. Weak arguers always resort to insults.
Actually you're assessment is still wrong as most people said it was because most of the PvP community is made up of unpleasant people who use foul language and are just generally mean spirited. Nothing kills the mood like being surrounded by people who are nasty to you.
Smile
First response nailed it
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
i like the PVP that most folks dont like (eve and DF style pvp) but i absolutely loathe arena matches in wow and content like that.
because you dont lose anything if you lose and you dont win anything if you win.
edit: i agree with the people who mention the community but implore them to actively search for a good community in a pvp game and it will be found. even if it means having to search through a knee deep kiddypool of douches. i love friendly guilds who help one another and who don't grief and i've been in one of those every pvp game i've played.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
I love PvP. What I hate is badly implemented PvP like people are advocating for EQN.
Games where you can grief players who are massively under your power level are lame. I want a challenging fight, isnt that the whole point of PvP? To pit yourself against human intelligence? Where is the satisfaction in killing someone who had no chance to fight back in the first place?
Furthermore, I hate how unrealistic FFA servers are. People say its so they can have 'free choice'. You have free choice in the real world, but if you acted like a mass murdering maniac in real life, your 'character' would get deleted pretty quickly. If you want to go down the FFA route, you need VERY harsh penalties.
Probably even permadeath for outlaws. Isn't that what they want? A thrill? Of course not, they just want to grief with no penalties.
I hope that EQN brings in meaningful consensual PvP. Rather than mindless FFA backstabbing.
Edit: Also my advocation for consensual PvP in EQN has nothing to do with my PvP prowess. I do very well at PvP. In most games I was able to kill whole groups of players while solo. I still have fond memories of killing a whole group of Alliance repeatedly while leveling up my Shadow Priest. One of them made a character on the Horde side just to send me a lovely letter wishing that I get ass-cancer. Also I loved competitive PvP in games like GW1 and LoL where everyone is on an equal playing field.
Please rephrase this with a definition of what you call PvP. My guess is that your pvp is different from mine. I played Dark Age of Camelot - I loved LOVED pvp. But that was truly pvp for a more mature adult (not always!) audience with the sort of logical things that happen when a kingdom exists in an mmorpg (there are walls, siege warfare, and lots LOTS of races and classes under truly separate banners)...You could help your realm in pvp through a variety of methods, and on the adverse, your pvp successes reflected even on those players who were the no names and low levels of the game in terms of coin, and so forth. There was mad purpose to this pvp and a cool sense of realm pride.
The pvp I am assuming (tell me if I'm wrong) you enjoy is where Bob the family man is leveling is toon in some corn field (after a long day of work, and several hours with the kids...chores;..helping with homework, and so forth) and you have show up with your uber toon - after grinding all day long...happy to finally relax and just grief "noobs" and then proceed to call them care bears when they leave...This is pvp that only self gratifies, and allows for folks to "e-sport" rage on players who really can't compete due to real life challenges.
Now - that was a fairly rude generalization I gave of what I assume is the pvp you are speaking of. I don't intend to be rude, friend, but if the latter paragraph is what you call pvp then yeah - it's crap.
To put it into context, BCBully plays and advocates for Age of Wushu. AoW actually has a fantastic risk / reward / punishment system for open world PvP. What he doesnt realise is that most of the people against it are talking about grief prone systems more akin to Darkfall or Mortal Online.
AoW is a good step forward in terms of open world PvP, but I think punishments for criminals could stand to be a bit harsher and better fleshed out (forcing them into outlaw camps and being unable to affiliate themselves with anyone from a lawful faction etc).
Two good examples that could be worked in to a game to solve this problem people have with pvp.
Everquest 1 had great rules for pvp. You could only make the initial attack on players 5 lvls lower then your lvl and anyone above that.
They had a few other rules I liked as well. For instance you couldn't one shot anyone. I believe you could only damage a person for 75% of their max health with one hit. My numbers might be off, but that is roughly what it was. Sure loopholes like being grouped with someone higher existed, but that can be worked out.
The other game was SWG. You chose when to go overt (pvp) by visiting a NPC and this was for unlimited time or until death (If I remember right). Or if you attacked a Factional NPC or helped (healed/buffed) an overt faction member you would become overt for a period of time after you last attacked an opposite faction or helped an overt team faction.
With the SWG style there would be no fear of pvp while you are out doing pve.
The Eq style still gives you the danger, fear and excitement while knowing that you don't have to worry about someone at a greater advantage in lvls then you attacking.
while im a pve person, i dont hate pvp. I enjoy a fair open world pvp when im doing my pve questing (it keeps the challenge going on and varied between ai and actual players (both solo 1v1 and in small group encounters while questing in the same contested areas).
What i do hate with a passion is the unfair pvp where overpowered high level jerks one shot lower level people that they know dont give them any reward but they just like to be dicks and ruin other people's experience. If these players were in some way prevented form attacking lower level players in open world pvp i would be totally ok with open world fair pvp.
I think the best way to combat opwn world pvp gankers that one shot low level players is by downscaling the character to the zone they enter like GW2 did, but make it more in depth so stats also downscale a bit. Therefore, always providing a fair fight no matter the encounter. The winner will be of course the player with better knowledge and excecution of their character mechanics.
I Like PvP but i hate when it´s forced.
I love playing a MMO at my pace,doing PvE and PvP when i feel like it.
I hate when i´m gathering resources...or just exploring and i get ganked by 3 or 4 high level players... hate that!
The game that i hated the most for that reason was Aion...omg...so annoying... and it gets even worse when they wait for you to res to kill you again and again...
Where is the fun in that? Where is the fair PvP in that?
Sadly it happens in every single forced open PvP game,and that´s why i avoid them.
The freedom allotted in FFA PvP or Open-world PvP is too great of a responsibility for some players to bear. Abusers most often take it for granted in meaning they get to use it however they choose. And that's fine, but doing so negatively, does come with a heavy cost. And it's exactly this cost that they never think about. Especially when it comes to mindset of their more PvE oriented neighbors and their views of seeing FFA/open-world PvP as a overall positive feature. They simply chalk it up as carebear whining when they complain about ramped abuse and move on to their next target. But what happens when the targets start to avoid mmorpgs with this feature?
Instead of that freedom being used as an outlet for negative reasons like frustrations, boredom and griefing. Why are less and less of the more positive ways rarely witnessed as much in open-world/FFA PvP mmorpgs like RPing, settling in-game player conflicts or territorial control anymore?. And no, you having a bad day and killing someone in-game does not count as settling in-game player conflicts.
And it's unfortunately those negative reasons that most players who do not put as much stock into FFA/open-wprld PvP are exposed to. It's like the chat feature in mmorpgs. As it is now, chatting has little to no restrictions as to what you can type. Well almost no restrictions, but for the most part you can type whatever you like. Many do not because certain things could get you banned. A norm has been established within the bounds of the game that a majority of players adhere to and this norm is backed up by a system to keep the more colorful abusers out there in check. There is no norm or system in place to keep PvP in check and until that day this is one freedom that needs to be limited.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I wish you didn't feel this way. There's a constructive conversation going on here. Please read the thread, it's worth it.
I dont' hate pvp.
I just don't understand why I need to be forced to pvp when I want to pve.
As someone who loathes FFA or non-consensual PvP I would be tempted to play a game such as AoW, if it truly does what Bc says it does. The issue then becomes the community because until a paradigm shift happens in the MMO genre where the average mentality of the PvP'er goes from Douchey to pleasant it will still be a hard sale for me.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Personally, I am just not a competitive person. I would rather play in a cooperative, more helpful way with other players, rather than against them.
I get no thrills from "play killing" pixels on my screen, be it an NPC or another player. I can enjoy combat. Winning a tough fight is fun, don't get me wrong, but it is not the reason I log into an MMO.
The very few times I have PvP'd with friends, it was about trying to make the other guy laugh with our antics, not win. The whole "PvP scene" has a bad reputation of attracting the type of "overly competitive" players I try to avoid. This is not to say every PvPer is this way, but there are enough involved I have no desire to be anywhere near it.
Just different strokes, I guess.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR